Display quality with ATI Radeon 9800

My problem concerns quality of text output on a CRT monitor.

Computer: Dell Dimension 8300
Processor: Pentium 4 2.60 GHz
Operating System: Windows XP Professional
Hard drive: 120 GB
Memory: 512 MB
Video card: ATI Radeon 9800 128MB (2 video outputs)
Primary monitor: Dell Ultrascan 1226H (19 inch CRT, 1024x768))
Secondary monitor: Dell E151FPb (15 inch flat panel, analog, 1024x768)

I am not interested in gaming, and am not heavily into graphics. In fact
all I am really interested in is crisp text with good contrast. I chose
the Radeon 9800 card because it supports 2 monitors, and will allow me
to upgrade to a DVI monitor some time in the future.

I have the 19 inch CRT monitor on the analog output of the card, and the
15 inch flat panel in the digital output with a converter plug. Both
monitors are using the Microsoft 5.1.2001.0 driver (dated 6/6/2001). The
card shows up twice in device manager, both times using the ATI
6.14.1.6297 driver (dated 2/20/2003).

The problem is that on the 19 inch CRT monitor the display looks
completely "washed out". The colors have no vibrancy, black is not
black, white has a slight bluish hue, greys are faded with a "dirty
brown" kind of look. The 1226H is not a great monitor (IMO), but it
works fine on two other computers; this monitor is on a KVM switch, so
it is easy to verify that there is a big difference. So there cannot be
anything intrinsically wrong with the monitor. I would like to run this
monitor at 1280x1024, but it just looks terrible at this resolution.

On the 15 inch flat panel the display is much better, though perhaps
still a bit "faded". But certainly acceptable for the things that I do.

What is wrong here? My feeling is that it is not the CRT monitor which
is at fault, it's just that the LCD monitor is doing a better job
because it intrinsically has a sharper look. I have tried messing with
the settings of both the CRT monitor and the video driver, but nothing I
have tried really looks any better than the default settings. Compared
to anything I owned before this is a high end video card; why am I
getting such poor results?

Thanks in advance for any input.

David Wilkinson

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 13:08:39 GMT, David Wilkinson
wrote:

I am not interested in gaming, and am not heavily into graphics. In fact
all I am really interested in is crisp text with good contrast. I chose
the Radeon 9800 card because it supports 2 monitors, and will allow me
to upgrade to a DVI monitor some time in the future.

You wasted all that money for that? You can get cards for $100 that do
that just as well.
--
Andrew

Andrew:

Thanks for the concern for my pocket-book. It has occurred to me that
this is more card than I need, but this was not the 9800 Pro, just the
regular 9800. I think it was the cheapest ATI card which Dell offered
which would do both DVI and dual monitor; it cost me $115 more than the
default offering, which was 128 MB Nvidia GeForceTM FX 5200. Maybe I
should have stuck with that, but I didn't.

But now it's done, do you have any suggestions? Could there be something
wrong with the card?

David

==============================

aep@nospam wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 13:08:39 GMT, David Wilkinson
wrote:


I am not interested in gaming, and am not heavily into graphics. In fact
all I am really interested in is crisp text with good contrast. I chose
the Radeon 9800 card because it supports 2 monitors, and will allow me
to upgrade to a DVI monitor some time in the future.


You wasted all that money for that? You can get cards for $100 that do
that just as well.

-
David Wilkinson stood up at show-n-tell, in
, and said:

My problem concerns quality of text output on a CRT monitor.

Computer: Dell Dimension 8300
Processor: Pentium 4 2.60 GHz
Operating System: Windows XP Professional
Hard drive: 120 GB
Memory: 512 MB
Video card: ATI Radeon 9800 128MB (2 video outputs)
Primary monitor: Dell Ultrascan 1226H (19 inch CRT, 1024x768))
Secondary monitor: Dell E151FPb (15 inch flat panel, analog, 1024x768)

I am not interested in gaming, and am not heavily into graphics. In
fact all I am really interested in is crisp text with good contrast.
I chose the Radeon 9800 card because it supports 2 monitors, and will
allow me to upgrade to a DVI monitor some time in the future.

I have the 19 inch CRT monitor on the analog output of the card, and
the 15 inch flat panel in the digital output with a converter plug.
Both monitors are using the Microsoft 5.1.2001.0 driver (dated
6/6/2001). The card shows up twice in device manager, both times
using the ATI
6.14.1.6297 driver (dated 2/20/2003).

The problem is that on the 19 inch CRT monitor the display looks
completely "washed out". The colors have no vibrancy, black is not
black, white has a slight bluish hue, greys are faded with a "dirty
brown" kind of look. The 1226H is not a great monitor (IMO), but it
works fine on two other computers; this monitor is on a KVM switch, so
it is easy to verify that there is a big difference. So there cannot
be anything intrinsically wrong with the monitor. I would like to run
this monitor at 1280x1024, but it just looks terrible at this
resolution.

On the 15 inch flat panel the display is much better, though perhaps
still a bit "faded". But certainly acceptable for the things that I
do.

What is wrong here?

You didn't get a Matrox card.


My feeling is that it is not the CRT monitor which
is at fault, it's just that the LCD monitor is doing a better job
because it intrinsically has a sharper look. I have tried messing with
the settings of both the CRT monitor and the video driver, but
nothing I have tried really looks any better than the default
settings. Compared to anything I owned before this is a high end
video card; why am I getting such poor results?

Thanks in advance for any input.

David Wilkinson

--
Strontium

"It's no surprise, to me. I am my own worst enemy. `Cause every
now, and then, I kick the livin' **** `outta me." - Lit

The problem is that on the 19 inch CRT monitor the display looks
completely "washed out". The colors have no vibrancy, black is not
black, white has a slight bluish hue, greys are faded with a "dirty
brown" kind of look. The 1226H is not a great monitor (IMO), but it
works fine on two other computers; this monitor is on a KVM switch, so
it is easy to verify that there is a big difference. So there cannot be
anything intrinsically wrong with the monitor. I would like to run this
monitor at 1280x1024, but it just looks terrible at this resolution.

You mentioned the evil word 'KVM' - Are you plugging the monitor straight
into the card? KVM switches are reknown for causing video degradation.

what is your refresh rate? Should be 85Hz or better.

My 9700 Pro looks F'ing amazing on a 19" Hitachi at that same resolution at
100Hz.
Use the newest ATI Catalyst drivers too.


"David Wilkinson" wrote in message
...
My problem concerns quality of text output on a CRT monitor.

Computer: Dell Dimension 8300
Processor: Pentium 4 2.60 GHz
Operating System: Windows XP Professional
Hard drive: 120 GB
Memory: 512 MB
Video card: ATI Radeon 9800 128MB (2 video outputs)
Primary monitor: Dell Ultrascan 1226H (19 inch CRT, 1024x768))
Secondary monitor: Dell E151FPb (15 inch flat panel, analog, 1024x768)

I am not interested in gaming, and am not heavily into graphics. In fact
all I am really interested in is crisp text with good contrast. I chose
the Radeon 9800 card because it supports 2 monitors, and will allow me
to upgrade to a DVI monitor some time in the future.

I have the 19 inch CRT monitor on the analog output of the card, and the
15 inch flat panel in the digital output with a converter plug. Both
monitors are using the Microsoft 5.1.2001.0 driver (dated 6/6/2001). The
card shows up twice in device manager, both times using the ATI
6.14.1.6297 driver (dated 2/20/2003).

The problem is that on the 19 inch CRT monitor the display looks
completely "washed out". The colors have no vibrancy, black is not
black, white has a slight bluish hue, greys are faded with a "dirty
brown" kind of look. The 1226H is not a great monitor (IMO), but it
works fine on two other computers; this monitor is on a KVM switch, so
it is easy to verify that there is a big difference. So there cannot be
anything intrinsically wrong with the monitor. I would like to run this
monitor at 1280x1024, but it just looks terrible at this resolution.

On the 15 inch flat panel the display is much better, though perhaps
still a bit "faded". But certainly acceptable for the things that I do.

What is wrong here? My feeling is that it is not the CRT monitor which
is at fault, it's just that the LCD monitor is doing a better job
because it intrinsically has a sharper look. I have tried messing with
the settings of both the CRT monitor and the video driver, but nothing I
have tried really looks any better than the default settings. Compared
to anything I owned before this is a high end video card; why am I
getting such poor results?

Thanks in advance for any input.

David Wilkinson

Thanks to all who replied.

1. Seems maybe I did buy more card than I need, and perhaps the wrong
brand of card. Ah well.

2. Ben, you were right about the color temperature. I has set it to 9300
to try to get rid of "grey" background. At 6500 it is not white-white,
but not blue any more either. Better.

3. I have tried without the KVM switch, and with the two monitors
switched on the video outputs. No difference. LCD looks good, CRT not.

4. I have backed of the resolution on the 19" CRT from 1280x1024 to
1152x864, which looks a bit better. Maybe 1280x1024 just made text to
small for me anyway. One thing this has taught me is that if I go to
1280x1024 LCD, then I need 19 inch.

5. Once again, my only real concern is the black-white contrast. Not
motion blur, ghosting, fuzziness or any of that. By playing with the
color settings I have gotten it to look a bit better, maybe not so
different from the same monitor with my other computers. Part of the
problem is that with my new system the CRT monitor sits right next to my
15 inch LCD, which looks so much better.

One final question:

Does anybody know a good tutorial on video settings (color temperature,
brightness, contrast, individual color settings, color profiles, and all
that)?


Thanks again,

David

On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:55:32 GMT, David Wilkinson wrote:

Thanks to all who replied.

1. Seems maybe I did buy more card than I need, and perhaps the wrong
brand of card. Ah well.

2. Ben, you were right about the color temperature. I has set it to 9300
to try to get rid of "grey" background. At 6500 it is not white-white,
but not blue any more either. Better.

3. I have tried without the KVM switch, and with the two monitors
switched on the video outputs. No difference. LCD looks good, CRT not.

4. I have backed of the resolution on the 19" CRT from 1280x1024 to
1152x864, which looks a bit better. Maybe 1280x1024 just made text to
small for me anyway. One thing this has taught me is that if I go to
1280x1024 LCD, then I need 19 inch.

5. Once again, my only real concern is the black-white contrast. Not
motion blur, ghosting, fuzziness or any of that. By playing with the
color settings I have gotten it to look a bit better, maybe not so
different from the same monitor with my other computers. Part of the
problem is that with my new system the CRT monitor sits right next to my
15 inch LCD, which looks so much better.

One final question:

Does anybody know a good tutorial on video settings (color temperature,
brightness, contrast, individual color settings, color profiles, and all
that)?


Thanks again,

David


Highly recommend you download the free 30 day trail of 3deep. It allows you to
tweak your colors correctly and it makes a NOTICEABLE difference once done.

http://www.colorific.com/d1.htm


Pluvious

I can't see what all the fuss is about with
refresh rates - I can't see any difference
whatsoever in the 60, 70, 75 or 85Hz
that my 17" Packard Bell CRT monitor
offers.

"SST" wrote in message
et...
what is your refresh rate? Should be 85Hz or better.

My 9700 Pro looks F'ing amazing on a 19" Hitachi at that same resolution
at
100Hz.
Use the newest ATI Catalyst drivers too.


"David Wilkinson" wrote in message
...
My problem concerns quality of text output on a CRT monitor.

Computer: Dell Dimension 8300
Processor: Pentium 4 2.60 GHz
Operating System: Windows XP Professional
Hard drive: 120 GB
Memory: 512 MB
Video card: ATI Radeon 9800 128MB (2 video outputs)
Primary monitor: Dell Ultrascan 1226H (19 inch CRT, 1024x768))
Secondary monitor: Dell E151FPb (15 inch flat panel, analog, 1024x768)

I am not interested in gaming, and am not heavily into graphics. In fact
all I am really interested in is crisp text with good contrast. I chose
the Radeon 9800 card because it supports 2 monitors, and will allow me
to upgrade to a DVI monitor some time in the future.

I have the 19 inch CRT monitor on the analog output of the card, and the
15 inch flat panel in the digital output with a converter plug. Both
monitors are using the Microsoft 5.1.2001.0 driver (dated 6/6/2001). The
card shows up twice in device manager, both times using the ATI
6.14.1.6297 driver (dated 2/20/2003).

The problem is that on the 19 inch CRT monitor the display looks
completely "washed out". The colors have no vibrancy, black is not
black, white has a slight bluish hue, greys are faded with a "dirty
brown" kind of look. The 1226H is not a great monitor (IMO), but it
works fine on two other computers; this monitor is on a KVM switch, so
it is easy to verify that there is a big difference. So there cannot be
anything intrinsically wrong with the monitor. I would like to run this
monitor at 1280x1024, but it just looks terrible at this resolution.

On the 15 inch flat panel the display is much better, though perhaps
still a bit "faded". But certainly acceptable for the things that I do.

What is wrong here? My feeling is that it is not the CRT monitor which
is at fault, it's just that the LCD monitor is doing a better job
because it intrinsically has a sharper look. I have tried messing with
the settings of both the CRT monitor and the video driver, but nothing I
have tried really looks any better than the default settings. Compared
to anything I owned before this is a high end video card; why am I
getting such poor results?

Thanks in advance for any input.

David Wilkinson

Then you're very insensitive to screen flicker - 60Hz is terrible & 75Hz
isn't much better IMO - I much prefer 85Hz myself. My 8500LE used to revert
to 60Hz for no apparent reason whenever I rebooted that machine but using
WinXP's 'Plug & Play Monitor' instead of the Hansol monitor driver fixed it.

I recently bought myself a 17" Mitsubishi LCD '1760NX' for a second display
& that's great, completely flicker free. :-)

BTW: That's not criticism of you - we're all different, that's all...

[UK]_Nick...


"Mart" wrote
I can't see what all the fuss is about with
refresh rates - I can't see any difference
whatsoever in the 60, 70, 75 or 85Hz
that my 17" Packard Bell CRT monitor
offers.