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Watercooling newsgroup ?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 19th 03, 08:19 PM
Phil Weldon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Watercooling newsgroup ?

The point is not so much to avoid POSTING the previous messages but to avoid
forcing the previous material on every reader. Chopping up a post is even
worse - it is more difficult to tell if there is any new material, so the
reader does not even have the CHOICE of scrolling past. Times change; once
the internet was siphoned through a 2400 bits/second straw and bandwidth was
at a premium; it made sense to force the user to take on a few tasks to
speed communitcation. Now bandwidth is much greater, and is much cheaper
than the user's time, so the method of posting should accomodate the user,
not the hardware or software. After all, don't you believe computers and
software should be designed for the user and not for the computer engineer?

Phil Weldon,

"Arthur Hagen" wrote in message
...

"Phil Weldon" wrote in message
...
Second, for a technical newsgroup top posting is much more efficient -
you can go directly to the NEW information without scrolling through
the prior posts. This is especially helpful because in many cases
the prior post will be relatively lengthy while the reply will be
relatively short.


Only if the poster is too lazy to chop away the irrelevant parts. This

kind
of laziness usually manifests in top posters, who quote EVERYTHING
(including signatures and blank lines at the bottom).

If you only want to post the new stuff, then DON'T QUOTE AT ALL -- chop

off
that bottom quote in a top post that only serves the purpose of eating up
disk space, bandwidth and reduce retention -- after all, if you want the
full text of the previous post, you simply go to the previous post. It's
listed in the header of the reply post, and most newsreader will give you
easy access to it.

No regards,
--
*Art



  #2  
Old July 20th 03, 12:54 AM
David Maynard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Phil Weldon wrote:
The point is not so much to avoid POSTING the previous messages but to avoid
forcing the previous material on every reader. Chopping up a post is even
worse - it is more difficult to tell if there is any new material, so the
reader does not even have the CHOICE of scrolling past. Times change; once
the internet was siphoned through a 2400 bits/second straw and bandwidth was
at a premium; it made sense to force the user to take on a few tasks to
speed communitcation. Now bandwidth is much greater, and is much cheaper
than the user's time, so the method of posting should accomodate the user,
not the hardware or software. After all, don't you believe computers and
software should be designed for the user and not for the computer engineer?

Phil Weldon,


The point is that people logically expect, and read, 'from statement to reply'
so putting the reply above what's replied to is out of sequence.

If the original is unnecessary to the reply then it can, and should, be snipped
for the sake of clarity. If it's useful for context then it should be in the
proper logical order: I.E. before the reply. Complex questions and replies are
more logical if the answer is inserted at the point where the specific question
being replied to took place.

To wit:

No

Does this flow properly?

3

How many geese in a gaggle? What is the first positive prime number? What is a
baker's dozen?

  #3  
Old July 20th 03, 06:47 AM
Phil Weldon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

How about accoustic cooling? This method likey has more promise for CPU
cooling than what we have loosely been calling 'water cooling' when what we
are really doing is using a fluid (water) to transport heat by forced
convection from a CPU to a radiator and fan. A suitable heatpipe and
convective air heat transport is much simpler that using a water loop -
unfortunately these heat pipes are less common and not easy (or safe) to
tinker with.

Or direct fluid impingment on the silicon die?

Or fluid channels and pumps etched into the silicon die?

Or semiconductors with a better performance than doped tellurium/bismuth?

Phil Weldon,


"Thomas Andersson" wrote in message
...
..
..
..
Exactly, watercooling has passed the fad phase and is maturing, finding

new
uses and becoming available to a bigger public....

..
..
..


  #4  
Old July 20th 03, 12:09 PM
Neil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

best thing to do is start it up and see how it goes.


Neil


"Thomas Andersson" wrote in message
...
David Maynard wrote:

Watercooling? Watercooling is passe' and the latest wizmo gizmo is
refigeration cooling. I kid you not.


Refrigeration cooling has been around for quite a while but,
nevertheless, I'm not sure he intended the group's focus to be
'latest fad' cooling anyway.


Exactly, watercooling ahve passed the fad phase and is maturing, finding

new
uses and becoming available to a bigger public. Afordable, easy to use,
watercooling solutions are now becoming available to the greater mass for

a
faster or a quieter computer.
I've gotten some nice reponses in private emails as well as promises of
supporta dn promotion of the newsgroup IF created. But as Phil pointed out
there's the question of how viable a new separate newsgroup is volumevise.

I
haven't seen much open support (ok, not resistance either) from the
newsgroups it relates to yet so I'm holding my desission for now as to
wether I should go through with the ng creation.

So, to you who read this and frequent these newsgroups, would YOU read and
post to a dedicated watercooling newsgroup, would you be against a split

for
any reason?

Best Wishes
Thomas





  #5  
Old July 20th 03, 02:55 PM
Thomas Andersson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Phil Weldon wrote:

Exactly, watercooling has passed the fad phase and is maturing,
finding new uses and becoming available to a bigger public....


How about accoustic cooling? This method likey has more promise for
CPU cooling than what we have loosely been calling 'water cooling'
when what we are really doing is using a fluid (water) to transport
heat by forced convection from a CPU to a radiator and fan. A
suitable heatpipe and convective air heat transport is much simpler
that using a water loop - unfortunately these heat pipes are less
common and not easy (or safe) to tinker with.

Or direct fluid impingment on the silicon die?

Or fluid channels and pumps etched into the silicon die?

Or semiconductors with a better performance than doped
tellurium/bismuth?



Eh? What does these have to do with the proposed newsgroup? What are you
trying to say?



  #6  
Old July 20th 03, 02:57 PM
Thomas Andersson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Neil wrote:

best thing to do is start it up and see how it goes.


I kinda agree with the people in alt.config about that, why start it up if
it will be empty. Why cause a split and then have the group die (not that I
think it will). Before I go forth and actually create it I want to hear more
from the people that will (hopefully) actually use it...

Best Wishes
Thomas



  #7  
Old July 20th 03, 06:16 PM
CoCo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

hi

i can use it, but a empty ng is pointless....
we(you) need a ng + a working forum somewhere....

coco

"Thomas Andersson" skrev i meddelandet
...
Neil wrote:

best thing to do is start it up and see how it goes.


I kinda agree with the people in alt.config about that, why start it up if
it will be empty. Why cause a split and then have the group die (not that

I
think it will). Before I go forth and actually create it I want to hear

more
from the people that will (hopefully) actually use it...

Best Wishes
Thomas





  #8  
Old July 20th 03, 08:36 PM
Phil Weldon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

'CoCo' wrote "...i can use it, but a empty ng is pointless.... we(you) need
a ng+ a working forum somewhere..."

Now that is a comment on point - a moderated newsgroup would be useful, and
likely grow, if only because noise is reduced. But then who decides what is
signal and what qualifies as noise?

Phil Weldon,

"CoCo" wrote in message
...
hi

i can use it, but a empty ng is pointless....
we(you) need a ng + a working forum somewhere....

coco



  #9  
Old July 21st 03, 03:36 AM
David Maynard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Phil Weldon wrote:
How about the most common case; where the user reads the posts as a batch?
I hope the attention span is long enough in this newsgroup to remember the
discussion from one post to another - think of a thread as an analog of a
conversation rather than as an exchange of post office mail.


I don't think you can, or should, count on that. But if you are, then why copy
the original text in the reply? But if you're including it then having it making
logical sense applies again.

Kinda reminds me of an FDA calibration requirements lecture I attended. The
point was made that all measuring devices needed a calibration schedule. The
question would get raised "but do I need to calibrate things that aren't really
a part of the process?" Reply was "then why do you have it?" "well, it's nice to
sometimes look at insert measurement" but it's not really important." "Then
take it out if it's not important." "But I like to see it." "Then you're
obviously using it and should calibrate it."

I.E. If it's there then it should work but if you're not going to make it work
then take it out.

The amusing aspect to the lecture was as soon as one questioner would finally
accept that their particular 'unimportant' device needed calibration another
hand would go up from someone else wondering if THEIR particular 'unimportant'
device also needed calibration.

Some folks apparently had a bit of trouble grasping it at the 'conceptual'
level. hehe


Though I do agree that, if the ideas have no logical flow, then the
conversation needs a lot of formating help.

As for snipping, that can result in a distortion of the original statement -
people tend to edit for brevity in the light of their preconceptions or
misreadings. I'd rather go back to the full original post.


Right, especially if it's a 'debate'.


Phil Weldon,

"David Maynard" wrote in message
...
.
.
.

The point is that people logically expect, and read, 'from statement to


reply'

so putting the reply above what's replied to is out of sequence.

If the original is unnecessary to the reply then it can, and should, be


snipped

for the sake of clarity. If it's useful for context then it should be in


the

proper logical order: I.E. before the reply. Complex questions and replies


are

more logical if the answer is inserted at the point where the specific


question

being replied to took place.

To wit:

No

Does this flow properly?

3

How many geese in a gaggle? What is the first positive prime number? What


is a

baker's dozen?






  #10  
Old July 21st 03, 03:51 AM
David Maynard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Phil Weldon wrote:
Since usage is a problem, why not consider broader coverage, and include all
cooling methods other than heatsink/fan?

Perhaps the reason you don't understand what my post has to do with the
proposed newsgroup is that you concatenated part of your post with my post,
placing it ahead of my reply, then bottom-posted.


He put the post in proper time sequence and quoted it completely and accurately.
It could not have been better done.

The reason he asked is because his mindset is on his proposed topic of "water
cooling" and your comments on alternate methods didn't, to him, seem to apply to
THAT topic.

Your point about expanding the scope is, of course, reasonable but the cheap
shot about posting methodology isn't worthy of your normally logical style.


Phil Weldon,

"Thomas Andersson" wrote in message
...
.
.
.

Eh? What does these have to do with the proposed newsgroup? What are you
trying to say?








 




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