$1000 to spend on a new computer

Hey all, heres the situation.
Friend of mine has saved up 1k for a new computer system. She's coming over
from the Mac side of things (ibook) so there isn't any existing hardware to
bring over. She's always wanting to build this all on her own, she's tired of
depending on others (apple/friends) to fix things for her.

Thank you to everyone that responds. I hate to bug people on this stuff since I
know how many sites there are that review products. I've been out of the loop
for a while so I'm sorta floundering trying to figure out where to start in on
this and what suggestions I can give her for her build. While the reviews out
there are nice its always good to get real world feedback on this stuff.



CPU:
While I was pretty up to date on the AMD stuff when I built my system in Jan, I
know things have changed a bit, advice here would be great since the CPU and
motherboard are the core of the system.
Unfortunately I don't know much in the Intel world, so any insight in to Intel
sides of things would be fantastic. Also any good heatsink/fans etc. if the
stock coolers are subpar. She's not looking to overclock last I checked.

Motherboard:
This will of course depend on the CPU, but chipsets to go for or avoid would be
great. I'm going to assume she'll go for the options on boards that have
onboard lan/firewire/usb2 to cut down on the cost of add on cards.

RAM:
Looking for stable and large. Speed would be nice but only if it actually makes
a noticeable difference (by which I mean latency issues, 2.5 Vs 2 , etc.). If
going dual channel makes a difference would be nice too. I know back when it
was introduced, AMD boards really didn't get a big boost (if I remember it was
something like 5%) whereas Intel boards got a noticeable improvement. Is this
still the case?

Video:
Art and Gaming.. the 2 big concerns from what I understand.
I'm going to guess she'll go top end (be kinda a shame if she didn't), my
personal taste is to Nvidia, so like the CPU issue I could use some info from
the ATI camp so I can give her a good case for each. Also any word about
PCI-Express?
She's an artist so while some 3D will probably happen (Bryce), it will be kinda
sparse from what I understand. Her graphic emphasis will be web design, 2D
imaging (Photoshop, illustrator) and Flash. Plus most of her stuff is hand
drawn, not digital.

Hard Drive:
I was personally thinking something like a Raptor for a system disk and them
pick up one of the new 16meg cache drives that are due out soon for a storage
drive. Any yays or nays on this idea?
I know Seagate and WD are both supposed to be coming out soon with some
impressive drives and right now Maxtor is putting out a drive with high
capacity platters and 16megs of cache while also working with Intels ICH-6
which seems to supposedly increase speeds. If anyone has any real would
experience with this stuff I'd love to hear it. I've only seen a few reviews
about it.

Sound:
Onboard sound will most likely work just fine for her, she's not an audiophile
so it may be a good way of going about it.

Case:
I know she'd like to LAN party this thing so something the lil thing could
carry without a forklift would be cool but still be solid. We live in Mid
California so while the temps don't get way high we can get up to 90 F so
something with decent cooling (without sounding like a jet, so no Delta 80's).

Monitor:
The cost of a monitor is being picked up by friends so the 1k will be
completely for the system and keyboard/mouse (by the by she's a south paw so
any advice on neutral mice would be cool).

OK so that turned in to a blood novel instead of a post. But I thank anyone
that actually went though all this. I am of course doing as much research as I
can in this but I always try and get insight on this stuff. Again thanks
~A

Azaran2003 wrote:

Hey all, heres the situation.
Friend of mine has saved up 1k for a new computer system. She's coming over
from the Mac side of things (ibook) so there isn't any existing hardware to
bring over. She's always wanting to build this all on her own, she's tired of
depending on others (apple/friends) to fix things for her.

Thank you to everyone that responds. I hate to bug people on this stuff since I
know how many sites there are that review products. I've been out of the loop
for a while so I'm sorta floundering trying to figure out where to start in on
this and what suggestions I can give her for her build. While the reviews out
there are nice its always good to get real world feedback on this stuff.

CPU:
While I was pretty up to date on the AMD stuff when I built my system in Jan, I
know things have changed a bit, advice here would be great since the CPU and
motherboard are the core of the system.
Unfortunately I don't know much in the Intel world, so any insight in to Intel
sides of things would be fantastic.

Forget about Intel, and use an Athlon 64. An Athlon 64 3000+ is only around $160.
It is a great performer.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2065&p=1

Also any good heatsink/fans etc. if the
stock coolers are subpar. She's not looking to overclock last I checked.

Motherboard:
This will of course depend on the CPU, but chipsets to go for or avoid would be
great. I'm going to assume she'll go for the options on boards that have
onboard lan/firewire/usb2 to cut down on the cost of add on cards.

RAM:
Looking for stable and large. Speed would be nice but only if it actually makes
a noticeable difference (by which I mean latency issues, 2.5 Vs 2 , etc.). If
going dual channel makes a difference would be nice too. I know back when it
was introduced, AMD boards really didn't get a big boost (if I remember it was
something like 5%) whereas Intel boards got a noticeable improvement. Is this
still the case?

Video:
Art and Gaming.. the 2 big concerns from what I understand.
I'm going to guess she'll go top end (be kinda a shame if she didn't), my
personal taste is to Nvidia, so like the CPU issue I could use some info from
the ATI camp so I can give her a good case for each. Also any word about
PCI-Express?
She's an artist so while some 3D will probably happen (Bryce), it will be kinda
sparse from what I understand. Her graphic emphasis will be web design, 2D
imaging (Photoshop, illustrator)

A gig of ram would be a good idea.

and Flash. Plus most of her stuff is hand
drawn, not digital.

Hard Drive:
I was personally thinking something like a Raptor for a system disk and them
pick up one of the new 16meg cache drives that are due out soon for a storage
drive. Any yays or nays on this idea?
I know Seagate and WD are both supposed to be coming out soon with some
impressive drives and right now Maxtor is putting out a drive with high
capacity platters and 16megs of cache while also working with Intels ICH-6
which seems to supposedly increase speeds. If anyone has any real would
experience with this stuff I'd love to hear it. I've only seen a few reviews
about it.

Sound:
Onboard sound will most likely work just fine for her, she's not an audiophile
so it may be a good way of going about it.

Case:
I know she'd like to LAN party this thing so something the lil thing could
carry without a forklift would be cool but still be solid. We live in Mid
California so while the temps don't get way high we can get up to 90 F so
something with decent cooling (without sounding like a jet, so no Delta 80's).

Monitor:
The cost of a monitor is being picked up by friends so the 1k will be
completely for the system and keyboard/mouse (by the by she's a south paw so
any advice on neutral mice would be cool).

I am a lefty, and love my Microsoft optical wheel mouse. It was inexpensive,
and is the first mouse that has lasted me over two years.



OK so that turned in to a blood novel instead of a post. But I thank anyone
that actually went though all this. I am of course doing as much research as I
can in this but I always try and get insight on this stuff. Again thanks
~A

"Azaran2003" wrote in message
...
Hey all, heres the situation.
Friend of mine has saved up 1k for a new computer system.
CPU:

AMD 64 is the CPU of choice these days. Find where the price jumps up a lot
and get the CPU below that. An extra $10 or $20 for the next best CPU is
fine, but $100? Nope.

Motherboard:

VIA was the chipset to avoid before. Can't say much about them these days.
Having extra options on board is always good and they can be disabled if you
don't need them. Don't spend a lot more for a board just to get an extra
option though.

RAM:

1gig for sure. Determine the speed of memory that you'll need to match the
CPU and find the cheapest NAME BRAND that meets the spec. Then add about
10-20% to that price and see if you can find lower latency or faster speed.
You don't want to spend too much extra for a small gain in performance.
You'll want a pair of 512's and not a single 1gig stick. Consider ECC memory
if your mainboard supports it.

Video:
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro. 128meg version of these cards is selling at a
reasonable price. 9600XT would be a cheaper second choice.

As for PCI-e... Definately a good place to start, but it's a bit early as
far as availability goes. If you can find a good mainboard with PCI-e and a
videocard to match definately go for it, but don't spend a lot more for it.
The deciding factor is how long she plans on keeping the machine without
upgrading.

Hard Drive:
I recently got a 34gig Raptor. I don't notice a large improvement and the
drive is louder than the rest I have when seeking. A pair of these in RAID 0
might make a noticable performance difference and most mainboards provide
RAID these days. Does add a bit of cost for a small amount of fast storage
though.

Sound:
Onboard sound will most likely work just fine for her, she's not an
audiophile
so it may be a good way of going about it.

Smart move. She can always add a soundcard later if needed. Avoid anything
made by Creative though.

Case:
I know she'd like to LAN party this thing so something the lil thing could

Has she considered one of the Shuttle cube machines? Not a lot of room for
upgrades and you won't be able to install Raptors for RAID, but they are
still good performers if you don't plan on adding a bunch of cards into the
machine.

Monitor:
The cost of a monitor is being picked up by friends so the 1k will be
completely for the system and keyboard/mouse (by the by she's a south paw
so
any advice on neutral mice would be cool).

Go optical and cordless for the mouse (Cordless keyboard is cool too, but
don't spend a lot extra to get one). Best to go to the local bigbox store
and see what is comfortable.

Azaran2003 wrote:

.... snip ...

Motherboard:
This will of course depend on the CPU, but chipsets to go for or
avoid would be great. I'm going to assume she'll go for the
options on boards that have onboard lan/firewire/usb2 to cut
down on the cost of add on cards.

Just make sure the chipset can handle ECC memory. See the "Error
Correction" thread here.


RAM:
Looking for stable and large. Speed would be nice but only if it
actually makes a noticeable difference (by which I mean latency
issues, 2.5 Vs 2 , etc.). If going dual channel makes a
difference would be nice too. I know back when it was introduced,
AMD boards really didn't get a big boost (if I remember it was
something like 5%) whereas Intel boards got a noticeable
improvement. Is this still the case?

I highly recommend ECC memory. However, if you don't want to
spend the money (15 to 25% increase in memory cost) now you can
get less capable memory and choose to upgrade later, iff you have
the motherboard capability.

--
Chuck F ) )
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
http://cbfalconer.home.att.net USE worldnet address!

(Azaran2003) said:

I'm sorta floundering trying to figure out where to start in on
this and what suggestions I can give her for her build.

These guys know their stuff:
http://arstechnica.com/guide/system/budget.html
http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=2159
--
Mac Cool

"CBFalconer" wrote:
Azaran2003 wrote:

... snip ...

Motherboard:
This will of course depend on the CPU, but chipsets to go for or
avoid would be great. I'm going to assume she'll go for the
options on boards that have onboard lan/firewire/usb2 to cut
down on the cost of add on cards.

Just make sure the chipset can handle ECC memory. See the "Error
Correction" thread here.


RAM:
Looking for stable and large. Speed would be nice but only if it
actually makes a noticeable difference (by which I mean latency
issues, 2.5 Vs 2 , etc.). If going dual channel makes a
difference would be nice too. I know back when it was introduced,
AMD boards really didn't get a big boost (if I remember it was
something like 5%) whereas Intel boards got a noticeable
improvement. Is this still the case?

I highly recommend ECC memory. However, if you don't want to
spend the money (15 to 25% increase in memory cost) now you can
get less capable memory and choose to upgrade later, iff you have
the motherboard capability.

That brings up a good point. Do Macs use ECC memory?

Jon

Noozer wrote:

Smart move. She can always add a soundcard later if needed. Avoid
anything made by Creative though.

Why? I've never had any problems with any Creative card I've had. What do
you recommend instead?
--
My great-grandfather was born and raised in Elgin - did he eventually
lose his marbles?

CPU:

AMD64, go for a 939 socket

Motherboard:

VIA chipset for AMD64, nForce2 for AthXP


RAM:

At least 1GB of PC3500

Video:

For top of the line, go nVidia 6800 or ATI x800 - avoid creative and
'no-name' cards as hey underperform


Hard Drive:

I'd go for a RAID array of 4 Maxtor disks with 8MB caches, choose whatever
size you want.

Sound:
Onboard sound will most likely work just fine for her, she's not an
audiophile
so it may be a good way of going about it.

If you get an nForce2 (with AthlonXP) choose an ultra board for better sound

hamman

Hey guys, thanks for all the suggestions. quick question on the ram. Couple of
you suggested doing 2x512 instead of a single stick of 1gig. Aside from running
dual channel, is there a good reason for it? Are the timing any worse, and if
so by how much? And will a latency difference of 2.0 - 3.0 really make a
noticiable difference? I'm not talking benchmarks but real world difference
(one of the hard things to find out in a review). Thanks again everyone
~A

Azaran2003 wrote:
Hey guys, thanks for all the suggestions. quick question on the ram.
Couple of you suggested doing 2x512 instead of a single stick of
1gig. Aside from running dual channel, is there a good reason for it?

With the Nforce2 chipset, RAM in dual channel config provides only a tiny
performance increase. You will probably end up purchasing 2x512MB modules
since 1GB modules are about $70US more, according to the Crucial site.

The Intel 865xx and 875 series do benefit from using RAM in dual channel
configuration.

Are the timing any worse, and if so by how much? And will a latency
difference of 2.0 - 3.0 really make a noticiable difference? I'm not
talking benchmarks but real world difference (one of the hard things
to find out in a review). Thanks again everyone ~A

CAS latency at CL2.5 vs CL3 makes no real world difference.

You said, "She's an artist so while some 3D will probably happen (Bryce), it
will be kinda
sparse from what I understand. Her graphic emphasis will be web design, 2D
imaging (Photoshop, illustrator) and Flash. Plus most of her stuff is hand
drawn, not digital."

If colour accuracy is important, she should stay well away from LCD
monitors.

If she plans to LAN, this is a nice little case, with a 350W PSU:
http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=15000