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#1
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Can I use a 160 GB hard disk on a Gigabyte Titan 8IEXP with Win98SE?
Hi,
I own a Gigabyte P4 Titan 8IEXP mobo, with 845E Intel chipset and onboard Promise 20276 raid controller. Pentium4 1.6A, 256 MB ram, 80GB harddisk, DVD, CD burner. I know that the onboard Promise raid controller (20276) allows for hard disks greater than 127 MB, but I wanted to use the 160 GB disk (Hitachi or Samsung) as the primary hard disk attaching it to the IDE connector. (my 80 GB IBM Deskstar hd has recently died, after 2 yrs and 4 months of duty : ((( ) The Intel Application Accelerator drivers that came with the mainboard, later updated to version 2.30, allows for disks bigger tha 127 GB too, but I was wondering if I could experience problems when writing data to disk while in DOS, for example. (or in a different operating system not accessing to the IAA drivers) Moreover, will the bios recognize the disk as a 160 GB hd, or will it see only a part of it? Do I need a Windows partitioning software to partition the disk correctly (I take it that FDISK won't go beyon the 127 GB limit, even if I am going to slice it in chuncks no bigger than 30 GB). If, during formatting, I let the extra space exceeding 127 GB *unused*, can I avoid all of the problems associated with the 127 GB barrier and forgetting about drivers and controllers, just like having a 120 GB hard disk? ? Please. anyone who has some experience with 160 GB hard disk on old motherboards with win98s, step formwand and speak out! : ) I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Peltio |
#2
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Peltio wrote:
Can I use a 160 GB hard disk on a Gigabyte Titan 8IEXP with Win98SE? vcom's system commander 8.1 sez 98SE can only use the 1st 64GB of a disk (even if your h/w sees the whole disk) fwiw, i used the included (free if you get the CD) partition commander to define about 75GB in 5 fat32 partitions on a 160GB drive, the last of which was 30GB. i was able to use that last partition, but my hunch is that that was coz i only put less than 1GB of data on it i then used their partition commander to resize all 5 partitions to 63GB it was the single most amazing thing i've yet done on partitioning. see: www.v-com.com and get the CD (don't download) bill ps: imho, vcom is what norton was 10 or 15 years ago, before getting sucked into symantec |
#3
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willbill wrote:
Peltio wrote: Can I use a 160 GB hard disk on a Gigabyte Titan 8IEXP with Win98SE? vcom's system commander 8.1 sez 98SE can only use the 1st 64GB of a disk (even if your h/w sees the whole disk) fwiw, i used the included (free if you get the CD) partition commander to define about 75GB in 5 fat32 partitions on a 160GB drive, the last of which was 30GB. i was able to use that last partition, but my hunch is that that was coz i only put less than 1GB of data on it i then used their partition commander to resize all 5 partitions to 63GB it was the single most amazing thing i've yet done on partitioning. see: www.v-com.com and get the CD (don't download) bill ps: imho, vcom is what norton was 10 or 15 years ago, before getting sucked into symantec oh, one other thing with 98SE is it (mostly the apps) doesn't work well with 512MB of memory. seems to be mainly (but not only) a antivirus program problem bill |
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"willbill" wrote
Can I use a 160 GB hard disk on a Gigabyte Titan 8IEXP with Win98SE? vcom's system commander 8.1 sez 98SE can only use the 1st 64GB of a disk (even if your h/w sees the whole disk) This seems to be a limitation of the old FDISK program, later overcome with the WinME version. fwiw, i used the included (free if you get the CD) partition commander to define about 75GB in 5 fat32 partitions on a 160GB drive, the last of which was 30GB. i was able to use that last partition, but my hunch is that that was coz i only put less than 1GB of data on it i then used their partition commander to resize all 5 partitions to 63GB So you are using only 63 GB of a 160 GB HD? Seems a lot of wasted space My old 80 GB hard disk was far from full but I had data in the last partition, well over the 64 GB limit. Ther 137 GB limit I am talking about is a limitation of Win98 and WinMe. The Intel Application Acceleration driver should allow me to use the whole disk, but I wanted to hear from someone who actually did it and strored for sure more than 137.4 GB of stuff on the disk. I would not want to find out it was not feasible at the 138th GB when my last snapshot would overwrite the MBR : ))))) I am pretty confident that your system could use up to 127 GB (at least, but prolly even 137 GB) of space. But please do not try to use it before a full backup of your data : ))) I am willing to reach the 137 GB and maybe letting the remaning space at Linux disposal. cheers, Peltio invalid addres in reply-to. crafty demunging required to mail me. |
#5
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Peltio wrote:
"willbill" wrote Can I use a 160 GB hard disk on a Gigabyte Titan 8IEXP with Win98SE? vcom's system commander 8.1 sez 98SE can only use the 1st 64GB of a disk (even if your h/w sees the whole disk) This seems to be a limitation of the old FDISK program, later overcome with the WinME version. fwiw, i finally ran WinMe recently for about 5 weeks total. what a POS! if you think Win 9x still has merit (and imo it does), 98SE is still THE one you'd be best to avoid using the fdisk and format that come with 98SE with these new very large hard drives, which is one reason why i gave reference to vcom's System Commander and Partition Commander fwiw, i used the included (free if you get the CD) partition commander to define about 75GB in 5 fat32 partitions on a 160GB drive, the last of which was 30GB. i was able to use that last partition, but my hunch is that that was coz i only put less than 1GB of data on it i then used their partition commander to resize all 5 partitions to 63GB So you are using only 63 GB of a 160 GB HD? Seems a lot of wasted space i'm mid-way with a quad boot setup with DOS (98!), Win 98SE, Win2000, and eventually Linux my plan is to get started with DVD under Win2000 coz that's were the best software is likely to be, and while you can get around the 4GB file limit (using a 9x OS), i rather like Win2000 and want to get more experience with it, especially now that it's at patch level 4 grin My old 80 GB hard disk was far from full but I had data in the last partition, well over the 64 GB limit. Ther 137 GB limit I am talking about is a limitation of Win98 and WinMe. that "137" is likely a hardware limit (with older hardware); if it's also specific to software (specifically 98SE and WinMe vs. the 64 that vcom mentioned) i'll certainly be interested other than my quote of what vcom has to say in their very current System Commander manual (i got it 4 weeks ago, re the 9x OSes (95a, 98SE and WinMe) best used within the 1st 64GB of new/large hard drives), i'm leary of trying to pin it down from trial and error coz it just takes too long and is not worth it if you wanna define 64 GB on a large hard drive for use with 98SE (and the "cooperative" multi-tasking 98SE apps!), good luck coz i think you're gonna need it The Intel Application Acceleration driver should allow me to use the whole disk, but I wanted to hear from someone who actually did it me too but i trust vcom enough that i decided to only define fat32 partitions within the 1st 63GB of the disk and be done with it btw, since i don't know what the limits of the original Win2000 fdisk app is, i plan to initially use Partition Commander to define a NTFS partitions on this 1st disk from 63GB-to-136GB (talk about getting gun shy over the screwy things that happen when you use old software with new disks that go beyond what they were designed for...) once i get it upgraded to SP4 i'll use Partition Commander to extend the NTFS partition to 160GB fwiw, i plan to add a 2nd 160GB later, primarily as a work area I would not want to find out it was not feasible at the 138th GB when my last snapshot would overwrite the MBR : ))))) I am pretty confident that your system could use up to 127 GB (at least, but prolly even 137 GB) of space. But please do not try to use it before a full backup of your data : ))) tell me about it. :\ i used the 98SE format command (at the "" after a hard boot from a 98SE floppy), to reset the D:\ partition it wiped out the C:\ partition jeez louise! :'-( but it was 3:00AM and i wasn't sure i was thinking sharp, so i called it a night figuring that i'd mistyped the command but i'd used DOS Ghost to backup the entire 160GB disk (to another 160GB disk), so next morning i backed up again from that and retried the same format command this time i made sure it was: "format d:\" from the "a:\" prompt, and sure enough it once again wiped out the c:\ partition. since i'd suspected that that might happen, i'd copied the C:\ partition files and was back up and running with c:\ within 10 minutes (using DOS Ghost took about than an hour) since i only keep files with short names on c:\, any long names i lost from my simple 10 minute copy were likely specific to my earier install of 98SE (to D:\W98) bill I am willing to reach the 137 GB and maybe letting the remaning space at Linux disposal. cheers, Peltio invalid addres in reply-to. crafty demunging required to mail me. |
#6
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"willbill" ha scritto
fwiw, i finally ran WinMe recently for about 5 weeks total. what a POS! if you think Win 9x still has merit (and imo it does), 98SE is still THE one I second that. In fact that's the M$ OS I'm running. XP is needs too many system resources to convince me to spend the extra money (even though I've heard it's very stable). you'd be best to avoid using the fdisk and format that come with 98SE with these new very large hard drives, Yep, I use the updated FDISK and it works fine. Downloaded from M$ site. I overcames the 64 GB limit of the previous version. It works fine. i'm mid-way with a quad boot setup with DOS (98!), Win 98SE, Win2000, and eventually Linux Are they all on the same physical disk, or did you find a way to boot from the secondary IDE channel? I'd like to put a linux on my second hard disk. Ther 137 GB limit I am talking about is a limitation of Win98 and WinMe. that "137" is likely a hardware limit You're right. It's the 28 bit LBA's limit. It sets a barrier at 127 GB (127 x 2^30 Bytes) or 137 x 10^9 bytes, depending on the unit used (1 effective GB = 2^30 B; 1 marketing GB = 10^9 B). I called it a limitation of Win98 and Me because there are no official patches to overcome it. There are (I've learned thus far) several possibilities to make your system able to see the whole disk: the use of a DDO (every HD manufacturer allows you to download a small program to let you see the whole disk, and there is a little patch that applies to every system that costs only 10 bucks), the adoption of Intel's Application Accelerator (if you happen to have the right Intel chipset), using a suitable integrated RAID controller, or putting a new controllor board with 48 bit LBA in one of yours PCI slots. other than my quote of what vcom has to say in their very current System Commander manual (i got it 4 weeks ago, re the 9x OSes (95a, 98SE and WinMe) best used within the 1st 64GB of new/large hard drives), i'm leary of trying to pin it down from trial and error coz it just takes too long and is not worth it That's perfectly understandable. : ))) if you wanna define 64 GB on a large hard drive for use with 98SE (and the "cooperative" multi-tasking 98SE apps!), good luck coz i think you're gonna need it But I already did it and it worked fine. Er... okay, the drive died by mechanical failure but that was another problem... :] Perhaps the limit shown by VCOM refers to a single partition. That would make much more sense. (I have never gone beyond 30 GB per partition) this time i made sure it was: "format d:\" from the "a:\" prompt, and sure enough it once again wiped out the c:\ partition. I would have gone mad. Out to seek and destroy BG with a bazooka in less than 30 secs. : ))) cheers, Peltio invalid address in reply-to. crafty demunging required to mail me. |
#7
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Peltio wrote:
"willbill" ha scritto i'm mid-way with a quad boot setup with DOS (98!), Win 98SE, Win2000, and eventually Linux Are they all on the same physical disk, or did you find a way to boot from the secondary IDE channel? there are two approaches to "multi-boot" PCs: 1. you just swap the primary IDE channel master IDE drive (and leave everything else the same) imo, that's gotten a lot easier with these terrific new round IDE cables, some of which are very robust. i never liked the slide in tray approach (via a 5.25" front panel opening on the front of the case) for swaping HD's in/out, and i liked it less and less especially as IDE moved to faster transfer rates (100 and 133). it also helps if you've got a computer case that lends itself to swaping the primary master hard drive (removable mobo tray and/or an easily removable HD bracket (many removable brackets aren't easy to remove once the mobo and components are in), and which has a light weight door so that you pop off the door for quick backups (via DOS Ghost) or reasonbly fast HD swaps (where robust round IDE cables again come in handy) 2. get software that permits a multi-boot setup without having to do any hard drive swapping. the one i have long experience with is vcom's System Commander (see: www.v-com.com), now at version 8.1 when you use boot manager software is when you need a *current* book specific to the subject coz not all OS's will work from other than the primary channel IDE master drive I'd like to put a linux on my second hard disk. i'm guessing that most (all?) recent Linux packages will permit that. also see above also over the last 10 years my occasional visits with Linux have impressed me, but you do tend to run into more flakey software problems, drivers that don't work, and so on, not that there aren't plenty of those on every other OS you can name afaik, when you do go with whichever flavor of Linux catches your fancy, you are paying them for their packaging, and UNIX scripts, as well as their selection of specific kernels and drivers that are stable and work well together, not to mention whatever support they offer. be sure you get a recent version of whatever you go with (to keep problems with large hard drives away) if you wanna define 64 GB on a large hard drive for use with 98SE (and the "cooperative" multi-tasking 98SE apps!), good luck coz i think you're gonna need it But I already did it and it worked fine. Er... okay, the drive died by mechanical failure but that was another problem... :] Perhaps the limit shown by VCOM refers to a single partition. That would make much more sense. (I have never gone beyond 30 GB per partition) good as the manual is that comes with vcom's System Commander, there are a lot of things in it where it helps a lot if you already have a fair amount of knowledge. e.g. they constantly use the word "DOS" with a 2 GB partition size limit (which is true for MS-DOS 6.22 (and immediately prior DOS's)) since they are limited to FAT16 vcom hardly says anthing about DOS95B nor DOS98SE (and never by those specific names) since they were not not marketed as separate products; but if you boot from a 98SE floppy, you'll be able to see FAT32 as well as FAT16 partitions. (and likely FAT12 too) fwiw, the actual partition size limit for FAT32 is way beyond 32GB, and the vcom Partition Manager will let you do it to the limit. but given the number of files/directory limit with FAT32 i personally keep mind to under 31GB and tend to put my biggest files on my one such partition bill |
#8
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willbill wrote:
Peltio wrote: "willbill" ha scritto i'm mid-way with a quad boot setup with DOS (98!), Win 98SE, Win2000, and eventually Linux Are they all on the same physical disk, or did you find a way to boot from the secondary IDE channel? there are two approaches to "multi-boot" PCs: 1. you just swap the primary IDE channel master IDE drive (and leave everything else the same) imo, that's gotten a lot easier with these terrific new round IDE cables, some of which are very robust. i never liked the slide in tray approach (via a 5.25" front panel opening on the front of the case) for swaping HD's in/out, and i liked it less and less especially as IDE moved to faster transfer rates (100 and 133). it also helps if you've got a computer case that lends itself to swaping the primary master hard drive (removable mobo tray and/or an easily removable HD bracket (many removable brackets aren't easy to remove once the mobo and components are in), and which has a light weight door so that you pop off the door for quick backups (via DOS Ghost) or reasonbly fast HD swaps (where robust round IDE cables again come in handy) 2. get software that permits a multi-boot setup without having to do any hard drive swapping. the one i have long experience with is vcom's System Commander (see: www.v-com.com), now at version 8.1 2K/XP does this, LILO does this, GRUB does this. LILO and GRUB are GPL. when you use boot manager software is when you need a *current* book specific to the subject coz not all OS's will work from other than the primary channel IDE master drive All of them that I work with will. 2K/XP want a small partition on whatever drive the BIOS tries to boot from. I'd like to put a linux on my second hard disk. i'm guessing that most (all?) recent Linux packages will permit that. also see above All will. This has never been a trick. Can be made to boot from CD, ROM, or server as well. Doesn't even require a local drive. also over the last 10 years my occasional visits with Linux have impressed me, but you do tend to run into more flakey software problems, drivers that don't work, and so on, not that there aren't plenty of those on every other OS you can name I run into more "flaky software problems" and drivers that don't work with Windows. Linux drivers generally either work or don't. afaik, when you do go with whichever flavor of Linux catches your fancy, you are paying them for their packaging, and UNIX scripts, as well as their selection of specific kernels and drivers that are stable and work well together, not to mention whatever support they offer. be sure you get a recent version of whatever you go with (to keep problems with large hard drives away) PAYING? Just download the Gentoo ISO. Linux is GPL. As for problems with large disks, Kernel 2.4.16 had the 48-bit patch included, the current kernel is 2.6.8 IIRC. if you wanna define 64 GB on a large hard drive for use with 98SE (and the "cooperative" multi-tasking 98SE apps!), good luck coz i think you're gonna need it But I already did it and it worked fine. Er... okay, the drive died by mechanical failure but that was another problem... :] Perhaps the limit shown by VCOM refers to a single partition. That would make much more sense. (I have never gone beyond 30 GB per partition) good as the manual is that comes with vcom's System Commander, there are a lot of things in it where it helps a lot if you already have a fair amount of knowledge. e.g. they constantly use the word "DOS" with a 2 GB partition size limit (which is true for MS-DOS 6.22 (and immediately prior DOS's)) since they are limited to FAT16 vcom hardly says anthing about DOS95B nor DOS98SE (and never by those specific names) since they were not not marketed as separate products; but if you boot from a 98SE floppy, you'll be able to see FAT32 as well as FAT16 partitions. (and likely FAT12 too) fwiw, the actual partition size limit for FAT32 is way beyond 32GB, and the vcom Partition Manager will let you do it to the limit. but given the number of files/directory limit with FAT32 i personally keep mind to under 31GB and tend to put my biggest files on my one such partition bill -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#9
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"J. Clarke"
2. get software that permits a multi-boot setup [snip] 2K/XP does this, LILO does this, GRUB does this. LILO and GRUB are GPL. when you use boot manager software is when you need a *current* book specific to the subject coz not all OS's will work from other than the primary channel IDE master drive All of them that I work with will. 2K/XP want a small partition on whatever drive the BIOS tries to boot from. This is interesting. I was also thinking about creating such a small partition as the first partition on the primary disk and later use it just to host the smallest software necessary to perform a multiboot (which I've yet to choose but if there a free or GPL version.. all the better) How big should said partition be? Or, better yet, how small? Would a FAT32 partition be good to host LILO, or do I need an ext2 partition (I seem to recall that there are intrinsic limitations in the minimum size of a FAT32 partition, am I wrong?) [1] For example, Ranish Partition Manager says " If you want to use "Text 25x80" or "GUI" boot menu you have to create a small (couple of megs) partition for the Boot Manager (type 0xF0). That partition could be located anywhere on the disk and could be either primary partition or a logical disk inside extended partition." But how big should that be to host Win2k/XP loader? I'd go with a 100 MB FAT32 partition, possibly less. I'd like to have one linux on disk 1 and one linux on disk 2, plus Windows98SE (right now it's on the disk that will be on the secondary IDE). It will ease my future migration, when there would be no more support to the latest hardware from my last M$ OS but it will save me a gigantic backup and a new partioning in case I'd be forced to move to XP. cheers, Peltio invalid address in reply-to. crafty demunging required to mail me. [1] Of course I would need to document myself before doing that, but right now I have to put the other disk back as soon as it arrives to hold all of the data I've backed up to get back to work. I'm not currently planning to install neither Win2k nor WinXP, but I could later be forced to do that to keep on working. Having the system already partitioned to host several OSes would be nice. |
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