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P4C800-E Delux: Setting up SATA Drives with RAID
I've built several computers but never set up dual SATA Drives under
RAID. I'd like to build a RAID 0 system that boots off the SATA drives. From what I've read in the MB manual, it shouldn't be too difficult when performing a clean Windows XP Pro installation. I've read several articles (and every posting I could find), however, and I'm not entirely sure this is the right way to go. I know RAID 0 offers no data back-up if one of the drives fails, but I can always back-up data on an external drive, which is what I do now. If I'm really concerned out the data I further back it up on a CD ROM or DVD. I'm also aware that at least one writer claims the MTBF of the SATA drives will be halved by using them in a RAID 0 array. I've worked in QA (aircraft not computers per se), and I'm not convinced that the failure rate of two SATA drives operating under RAID 0 would be worse than the failure rate of the individual drives, or of drives working under RAID 1. I know as well that the same author claimed the increase in speed using RAID 0 isn't substantial, but I'd like to see for myself. Apparently there is a compromise -- a RAID 0 + 1 configuration. The P4C800-E manual mentions it, then offers no description of how it works or what it actually does. Some questions: Is setting up a RAID system as easy as it seems? Are there any traps to avoid? Has anyone tried using a 0+1 set up? Am I foolish to even think about a RAID 0 set up? Last question (a bit unrelated to the topic)-- is there a really good alternative to Norton for firewall and virus protection? Their software seems to be getting progressively buggy. Thanks for reading this too long posting and for any advice you can give. |
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#3
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In my new computer build using paired Raptors (P4C800-E D mobo), it was EASY
to set up a RAID 0 configuration and I question the validity of the reduced life of RAID 0 HDDs. Raptors come with a 1.2 MILLION HOUR MTBF rating which nothing else compares to. The install went without a hitch and I had never set up RAID before. BUT, because of Norton (%^$#@!*&) conflicts with a couple of pieces of software as well as itself on this, my THIRD clean install, I am getting rid of Norton 2004 (have used Norton since 386's) and going to remove the RAID partition and start over in a few hours--this time with RAID 1 instead of RAID 0--a thread in this newsgroup convinced me that for my needs, RAID 0 was an uber geek thing and not really in my best interest. I also have a 200 GB IDE backup HDD too. To set up RAID 0 or 1--use the Intel South Bridge controller and disable the Promise controller in BIOS, which is PCI-based and IMHO, not needed for most people. Have the Intel RAID drivers on a floppy diskette--AND BEFORE starting the installation, set up the RAID configuation in the BIOS: set OnBoard IDE Operate Mode to [Enhanced Mode], Enhanced Mode Support On to [S-ATA], Configure S-ATA as RAID to [Yes], Serial ATA Bootrom to [enabled] and press 10 ans ave changes and exit the BIOS setup (making sure your boot drive is CD-ROM). Create a floppy diskette of the Intel Application Accelerator RAID Editgion to be used during isntallation of Windows XP--either off of the Asus installation diskette in a folder labeled "IAA" or a newer version can be obtained by downloading it from the Asus download/support Site. The file to download is called "iaa35r.zip" Unzip it and notice that there is a "MakeDisk.exe" file--place a floppy diskette in the drive and double click that file to create a driver diskette that contains these four files: iastor.inf, iastor.sys, iastor.cat, and txtsetup.oem. Before attempting to load Windows XP, boot computer and while in POST, do a CTRL-I (eye) to get into the RAID BIOS and make the following changes: Creat RAID volume (in main menu), Set Stripe Size (probably to 64KB) in Create Array Menu, Set Raid Level to 0 (striping) or..., highlight "Create Volume" and press enter and press "y" when a confirmation message apepars and scroll down to option 4 and press enter. Place XP install CD in the drive and boot to the CD, having the RAID diskette handy. At one point, WIndows will briefly ask if there are additional drivers and if so, hit F6--do so and place the RAID driver diskette in the drive. Eventually, Windows will then ask for SCSI drivers and enter "S" for installation and "specifiy additional device" of a SCSI driver (setup feels that RAID drives are SCSI too??), leave the diskette in the drive, after pressing enter, a list of available SCSI adaptors will be presented and it should list the Intel 82801ER Serial RAID controller which should be selected by you and press enter. The next screen should confirm that the Intel RAID controller was selected and press enter again to continue. Finish Windows installation. Upon rebooting, get back into the BIOS and reset the boot sequence to the RAID volume (making sure that the RAID drive is shown). The RAID should be up and running at this point--probably should go ahead and install theInten Chipset Inf Utility... Hope there are not too many typos above--was in a hurry since I needed to be somewhere else. Good luck. MikeSp "Will" wrote in message om... I've built several computers but never set up dual SATA Drives under RAID. I'd like to build a RAID 0 system that boots off the SATA drives. From what I've read in the MB manual, it shouldn't be too difficult when performing a clean Windows XP Pro installation. I've read several articles (and every posting I could find), however, and I'm not entirely sure this is the right way to go. I know RAID 0 offers no data back-up if one of the drives fails, but I can always back-up data on an external drive, which is what I do now. If I'm really concerned out the data I further back it up on a CD ROM or DVD. I'm also aware that at least one writer claims the MTBF of the SATA drives will be halved by using them in a RAID 0 array. I've worked in QA (aircraft not computers per se), and I'm not convinced that the failure rate of two SATA drives operating under RAID 0 would be worse than the failure rate of the individual drives, or of drives working under RAID 1. I know as well that the same author claimed the increase in speed using RAID 0 isn't substantial, but I'd like to see for myself. Apparently there is a compromise -- a RAID 0 + 1 configuration. The P4C800-E manual mentions it, then offers no description of how it works or what it actually does. Some questions: Is setting up a RAID system as easy as it seems? Are there any traps to avoid? Has anyone tried using a 0+1 set up? Am I foolish to even think about a RAID 0 set up? Last question (a bit unrelated to the topic)-- is there a really good alternative to Norton for firewall and virus protection? Their software seems to be getting progressively buggy. Thanks for reading this too long posting and for any advice you can give. |
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"ChrisH" wrote in message ... On 11 Jul 2004 09:02:19 -0700, (Will) wrote: My own take on this is that using the implemetation of RAID on a motherboard is not the way to go. Huh, it's often the best way to go and there are two RAID 0 options on the P4C800-E Dlx: Promise and ICH5R. My advice, for what it's worth, is that if you really want to use RAID then get a decent controller - forget the MB implementation. There's no significant HW difference between mobo RAID and addon PCI card firmware RAID. Both work very well. However, much depends on how you propose to use your PC. If it doesn't bother you to lose all the data on the array (perhaps just using it as temporary work drives for video encoding) then a RAID 0 is fine. If you need both RAID and security you will want to go RAID 0+1 Usually RAID 5 and a hardware RAID addon PCI card is the better option here. and therefore use at least 4 drives. I wouldn't bother with RAID 0 with only two drives and the array as the boot device. RAID 1 is just a lazy way to maintain a continuous backup, using Drive Image or Ghost onto external media would be an acceptable substitute. No, RAID 1 does better than that as multitasked reads have near double the performance of a single drive. |
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On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 20:06:09 GMT, "Ron Reaugh"
wrote: "ChrisH" wrote in message .. . On 11 Jul 2004 09:02:19 -0700, (Will) wrote: Huh, it's often the best way to go and there are two RAID 0 options on the P4C800-E Dlx: Promise and ICH5R. Can you use both together? How many drives? Are the drives interchangeable? My advice, for what it's worth, is that if you really want to use RAID then get a decent controller - forget the MB implementation. There's no significant HW difference between mobo RAID and addon PCI card firmware RAID. Both work very well. If the raid card fails you can just replace it. Also, the BIOS support on the mobbo version is usually a cut-down version of the full implementaion on the card. So it is with Promise. Yes, you can hack the mobbo BIOS but it's not a lot of fun. RAID 1 is just a lazy way to maintain a continuous backup, using Drive Image or Ghost onto external media would be an acceptable substitute. No, RAID 1 does better than that as multitasked reads have near double the performance of a single drive. I think you forgot to add the word 'potentially', in real terms you get nowhere near double performance. ChrisH |
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"ChrisH" wrote in message ... On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 20:06:09 GMT, "Ron Reaugh" wrote: "ChrisH" wrote in message .. . On 11 Jul 2004 09:02:19 -0700, (Will) wrote: Huh, it's often the best way to go and there are two RAID 0 options on the P4C800-E Dlx: Promise and ICH5R. Can you use both together? How many drives? Are the drives interchangeable? Relevance? My advice, for what it's worth, is that if you really want to use RAID then get a decent controller - forget the MB implementation. There's no significant HW difference between mobo RAID and addon PCI card firmware RAID. Both work very well. If the raid card fails you can just replace it. HUH, and a serial port or a parallel port or USB or firewire or sound HUH! Also, the BIOS support on the mobbo version is usually a cut-down version of the full implementaion on the card. That's false. So it is with Promise. No, there's no significant cut-down. Yes, you can hack the mobbo BIOS but it's not a lot of fun. RAID 1 is just a lazy way to maintain a continuous backup, using Drive Image or Ghost onto external media would be an acceptable substitute. No, RAID 1 does better than that as multitasked reads have near double the performance of a single drive. I think you forgot to add the word 'potentially', in real terms you get nowhere near double performance. Wrong, in intense multitasked small record random I/O one gets near exactly double the throughput. |
#7
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On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:19:55 GMT, "Ron Reaugh"
wrote: Can you use both together? How many drives? Are the drives interchangeable? Relevance? ....being what's the ****ing point in having two different RAID systems operating at once in one PC? If the raid card fails you can just replace it. HUH, and a serial port or a parallel port or USB or firewire or sound HUH! You miss the point - it happens. It happened to my board. It happened to others. Also, the BIOS support on the mobbo version is usually a cut-down version of the full implementaion on the card. That's false. No it isn't So it is with Promise. No, there's no significant cut-down. Yes there is. 4 drive RAID 0 is impossible for one thing. There are plenty of sites offering the full Promise BIOS. Look around. Yes, you can hack the mobbo BIOS but it's not a lot of fun. RAID 1 is just a lazy way to maintain a continuous backup, using Drive Image or Ghost onto external media would be an acceptable substitute. No, RAID 1 does better than that as multitasked reads have near double the performance of a single drive. I think you forgot to add the word 'potentially', in real terms you get nowhere near double performance. Wrong, in intense multitasked small record random I/O one gets near exactly double the throughput. Yeah, right. Well obviously you're a ****wit so this conversation ends. Plonk. |
#8
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"ChrisH" wrote in message ... On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:19:55 GMT, "Ron Reaugh" wrote: Can you use both together? How many drives? Are the drives interchangeable? Relevance? ...being what's the ****ing point in having two different RAID systems operating at once in one PC? Ask, Asus as they put the two there. The one from Intel you get for free. If the raid card fails you can just replace it. HUH, and a serial port or a parallel port or USB or firewire or sound HUH! You miss the point NO, you missed the point and got nailed for it. |
#9
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ChrisH wrote:
RAID 1 is just a lazy way to maintain a continuous backup, using Drive Image or Ghost onto external media would be an acceptable substitute. Not really. Hot swap with a RAID 1 allows you to have zero down time in the event of a disk failure. Can't do that with Ghost. |
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