A7V333 with Athlon 3000 XP

I have another system I'm working on and trying to stabilize more.
The system is based on a ASUS A7V333 motherboard. I previously had a
Athlon 2600XP or something like that in it (I can't remember for sure)
but recently upgraded it to a Athlon 3000XP. The same day I also
upgraded the memory. I had one DDR that was 512 meg/400 mhz PC3200.
I added a second DDR of 512/400 mhz PC3200.
My problem is after first bootup the system did lock up in about 5
minutes but then worked fine for a few days but now is locking up 1-2
times a day. It may be in the screensaver or in the middle of a
program and sometimes no programs are open and since I didn't change
any software I don't suspect problems with that.
My question, what could be causing this? I have a Radeon 9600 video
card but that appears to be working fine.
I am concerned about memory. The original DDR was generic, the newest
Samsung but they appear to be the same type. My concern, this
motherboard is said to work with up to PC2700 and in error I had
bought PC3200 when I got the first memory. Will this memory work okay
still but just operate at PC2700 instead of PC3200. I haven't
suspected memory that much though since I had this system running 1
year or more with the one PC3200 and never had this lockup or any
other problem but is it a problem now that I have two DDR's? As well,
there are 3 slots, I have the DDR's in the first two slots, is that
the correct way to do it?
As well, I updated the BIOS to 1.18 or whatever the newest was since I
know that's needed to work with the speed of this processor but is it
possible I have a faulty processor? I have had it for around 2 weeks
now.
Also, in the BIOS settings I chose 2167 mhz. as the speed. I have
thought of lowering it to 1700 but if I'm right then my CPU will run
slower. There is a area for frequency multiplier and external
frequency but if I select the speed these seem to be grayed out.
My one other concern is the jumper for the CPU External Frequency
(SYSCLK). The ASUS web page lists the jumper settings for that and
ranges from 100-230 mhz. Which speed should be used for the Athlon
3000 XP? Is it necessary to set this or does the BIOS settings
override this?
I appreciate all your help. I'm still learning a lot about this and
just want to figure out what's causing these lock ups.

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 06:57:24 GMT, MarkW
wrote:

I have another system I'm working on and trying to stabilize more.
The system is based on a ASUS A7V333 motherboard. I previously had a
Athlon 2600XP or something like that in it (I can't remember for sure)
but recently upgraded it to a Athlon 3000XP. The same day I also
upgraded the memory. I had one DDR that was 512 meg/400 mhz PC3200.
I added a second DDR of 512/400 mhz PC3200.
My problem is after first bootup the system did lock up in about 5
minutes but then worked fine for a few days but now is locking up 1-2
times a day. It may be in the screensaver or in the middle of a
program and sometimes no programs are open and since I didn't change
any software I don't suspect problems with that.
My question, what could be causing this? I have a Radeon 9600 video
card but that appears to be working fine.

Test it for several hours with http://www.memtest86.com
If it fails, try manually setting slower timings (larger numbers) in
the BIOS. Do not use "turbo" mode bios setting unless you're SURE
it'll work, tests good.

I am concerned about memory. The original DDR was generic, the newest
Samsung but they appear to be the same type. My concern, this
motherboard is said to work with up to PC2700 and in error I had
bought PC3200 when I got the first memory. Will this memory work okay
still but just operate at PC2700 instead of PC3200. I haven't
suspected memory that much though since I had this system running 1
year or more with the one PC3200 and never had this lockup or any
other problem but is it a problem now that I have two DDR's? As well,
there are 3 slots, I have the DDR's in the first two slots, is that
the correct way to do it?
As well, I updated the BIOS to 1.18 or whatever the newest was since I
know that's needed to work with the speed of this processor but is it
possible I have a faulty processor? I have had it for around 2 weeks
now.

I doubt the processor is bad. It's possible you don't need the newer
bios, sometimes it's simply a matter of properly reporting the CPU's
Athlon "name" when it posts... a cosmetic fix only. You might try the
1016 bios, I've heard that it's more stable, particularly for revision
1.x boards.

Also, in the BIOS settings I chose 2167 mhz. as the speed. I have
thought of lowering it to 1700 but if I'm right then my CPU will run
slower.

Yes, the CPU would run slower, as well as the FSB, memory, unless you
used asynchronous mode (if it's possible)... don't use asynchronous
mode, keep memory speed = FSB speed.


There is a area for frequency multiplier and external
frequency but if I select the speed these seem to be grayed out.

You should be able to choose, either set to auto or manually set the
appropriate FSB & multiplier, which are 166MHz & 13X.

My one other concern is the jumper for the CPU External Frequency
(SYSCLK). The ASUS web page lists the jumper settings for that and
ranges from 100-230 mhz. Which speed should be used for the Athlon
3000 XP? Is it necessary to set this or does the BIOS settings
override this?

I believe that overrides the bios, or rather, it makes the BIOS
default to the jumpered speed, but the bios settings could still
change it futher. Assuming that for the time being you do not want to
overclock (at least till it's 100% stable at spec'd speed) you can
leave the jumpers to "auto" or the bios setting mode, I forget the
exact terminology used. In other words, you don't need the jumpers
changed from the defaults, just the bios set to auto (if auto does
work to set 166MHz FSB) OR the manual 166 FSB setting in the bios.

I appreciate all your help. I'm still learning a lot about this and
just want to figure out what's causing these lock ups.


I suspect the memory.
It's also possible the video card doesn't like 89MHz AGP... with that
board, because it's KT333 chipset, the AGP is out of spec at 166MHz
FSB... I have one of those board, can use "most" video cards in it at
166MHz FSB, but a few cards were instable at around 175MHz FSB. If
you had a different card to swap in for testing that might be useful,
though I'd suspect the memory first.



Dave

Well I did go in to check the temperature of the CPU and in the 2167
mhz. mode it's running at 165-167 Degrees. If I change it to 1700 it
runs at 158, and at 1300 runs at 150. I use a thermaltake fan which
is running at 5152 RPM's. What is normal temperature? This is my
fiancee's computer but mine is a P4 and runs around 90 so at first
these temperatures scared me and I figured that was the problem,
overheating for some reason, but yet I've heard the AMD chips run
hotter so is this normal temperature? I have heard the maximum safe
is around 185.
Also, I'm trying to figure out which version I have. I bought this at
CompUSA and looked at their web site and the Athlon they mention is
2.167mhz with a 333 FSB. It is $329 but I paid $279 for this. From
my receipt it has the number 290579 and the serial: MALAX3000BX. If
I'm correct i may have to take the fan off and look at the chip to
know for sure what version is it but yet if I have it set to 2167 is
this going to cause a problem if I have the 2100 mhz. version.?
As well, my motherboard is running at 89.5 degrees. I have yet to
change the memory modules around.I made sure they are tight though. I
did download the memtest program and will run that. Also, I'll make
sure I don't have the BIOS on turbo mode and it appears to all be set
jumperfree.

Assuming the heat is the problem I may have solved my problem. I took
a good look just now at the cpu fan/heatsink which is a thermaltake.
Well on this motherboard the CPU socket has 3 plastic clips on each
side for a total of 6 and the fan has two clamps using 4 of those
clips. The problem I have is the upper right of the 4 clamps broke
off.I didn't even see that happen when I installed the CPU and maybe
it happened after. I've never heard of this happening but I know the
bad thing is there's probably no way to fix it. My question, from
what I'm reading the fan/heatsink has to be very right so would this
be enough to cause the overheating of the fan? So far since the PC is
running slower and at a lower temp it hasn't locked up at all. Then
again it has made it this long before without locking up but not
often.
Assuming this is my problem it seems I may be in the market for
another motherboard. I prefer ASUS but yet if any others are good I'd
be willing to switch brands. The important things is it obviously
should support the AMD 3000XP as well as the PC3200 memory I have. As
well, I'd like AGP8X, onboard sound, as well as at least 4 USB ports
in the back, possibly firewire in the back, as well as connectors for
front USB ports and firewire and onboard LAN would be nice. I'd be
happy to stay with the motherboard I have but if this turns out to be
the problem I'll go to a new MB ASAP.

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 01:35:45 GMT, MarkW markwco*remove to
wrote:

Well I did go in to check the temperature of the CPU and in the 2167
mhz. mode it's running at 165-167 Degrees.

Which is about 74C... we like to use Celcius.
That's too hot.

If I change it to 1700 it
runs at 158, and at 1300 runs at 150. I use a thermaltake fan which
is running at 5152 RPM's. What is normal temperature?

Keep it under 140F, 60C, when it's at full load. There's no point in
considering idle temps but yours above are obviously too high without
considering full-load temps.


This is my
fiancee's computer but mine is a P4 and runs around 90 so at first
these temperatures scared me and I figured that was the problem,
overheating for some reason, but yet I've heard the AMD chips run
hotter so is this normal temperature? I have heard the maximum safe
is around 185.

That may be safe, but may not be stable. The faster the CPU runs, the
cooler it'll need be to stay stable, as a vague way of putting it.

Also, I'm trying to figure out which version I have. I bought this at
CompUSA and looked at their web site and the Athlon they mention is
2.167mhz with a 333 FSB. It is $329 but I paid $279 for this. From
my receipt it has the number 290579 and the serial: MALAX3000BX. If
I'm correct i may have to take the fan off and look at the chip to
know for sure what version is it but yet if I have it set to 2167 is
this going to cause a problem if I have the 2100 mhz. version.?

It appears to be an XP3000 with 166MHz FSB (as shown in your BIOS, 333
in DDR-speak), Barton core. That's not a problem, you'll simply need
to set your bios FSB to 166MHz if it doesn't run at correct speed
automatically.

As well, my motherboard is running at 89.5 degrees. I have yet to
change the memory modules around.I made sure they are tight though. I
did download the memtest program and will run that. Also, I'll make
sure I don't have the BIOS on turbo mode and it appears to all be set
jumperfree.

Even if your suspicions about the heatsink are correct, it's important
to confirm the memory is operating properly too.

"MarkW" markwco*remove to wrote in message
...
Assuming the heat is the problem I may have solved my problem. I took
a good look just now at the cpu fan/heatsink which is a thermaltake.
Well on this motherboard the CPU socket has 3 plastic clips on each
side for a total of 6 and the fan has two clamps using 4 of those
clips. The problem I have is the upper right of the 4 clamps broke
off.

There are CPU sinks that have one clip or three clips and should be good
enough with one tab missing. Also, there are some fans that can use holes in
the mainboard to mount instead of the CPU socket, but they may be harder to
find.

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 03:57:15 GMT, MarkW markwco*remove to
wrote:

Assuming the heat is the problem I may have solved my problem. I took
a good look just now at the cpu fan/heatsink which is a thermaltake.
Well on this motherboard the CPU socket has 3 plastic clips on each
side for a total of 6 and the fan has two clamps using 4 of those
clips. The problem I have is the upper right of the 4 clamps broke
off.I didn't even see that happen when I installed the CPU and maybe
it happened after. I've never heard of this happening but I know the
bad thing is there's probably no way to fix it.

There are other heatsinks that use all 6 socket lugs, or that mount
through the motherboard using the 4 holes that board has about the
socket. That's a great way to mount a heatsink but requires having
the motherboard out of the system to access the back of the board.


My question, from
what I'm reading the fan/heatsink has to be very right so would this
be enough to cause the overheating of the fan?

It's very possibly the cause. Given the temps you reported, it is the
most likely cause.

So far since the PC is
running slower and at a lower temp it hasn't locked up at all. Then
again it has made it this long before without locking up but not
often.

I would not run the system with the heatsink attached like that, if it
came completely off it could result in CPU damage or tumble down and
break "stuff".

Assuming this is my problem it seems I may be in the market for
another motherboard.

You didn't mention the heatsink model, but it doesn't sound like a
very good heatsink... I would replace the heatsink first, then if you
still want/need a different motherboard, so be it. 5,000 RPM is
awefully loud too, it could be a lot quieter. Alpha PAL8045(T),
Swiftech MCX462(U), or Thermalright SLK-800(U)/900(U) are all very
good coolers that mount through the motherboard holes, though they're
all pretty pricey and for lowest noise you should also buy a fan
separately, like a Panaflo FBA08A12L1A (80mm X 25mm, often referred to
as only an "L1A"). There may be lower cost alternatives that also
mount though the board, but none come to mind at the moment.


I prefer ASUS but yet if any others are good I'd
be willing to switch brands. The important things is it obviously
should support the AMD 3000XP as well as the PC3200 memory I have. As
well, I'd like AGP8X, onboard sound, as well as at least 4 USB ports
in the back, possibly firewire in the back, as well as connectors for
front USB ports and firewire and onboard LAN would be nice. I'd be
happy to stay with the motherboard I have but if this turns out to be
the problem I'll go to a new MB ASAP.

A7N8X is a pretty popular Asus board, might be what you're wanting,
but if I had to pick between the A7V333 with a good heatsink or the
A7N8X with a poor, loud 'sink, I'd get the 'sink.


Dave

Well for an update on my system I have been running it at 1300 mhz. to
keep the CPU cooler. Well I went over 2 days without one lockup and
at one time I was having lockups several times a day so it appears the
CPU heat was the problem. I did do a memtest overnight but everything
came out fine.
I suspected it was my cpu fan/heatsink but when removing it it seemed
secure. Like I said of the 6 plastic pins the one in the upper right
was broken but yet the way this fan mounts (it's a thermaltake) it has
just one piece of metal across it to hold it but the metal has a strip
of metal on each side that connects to all 3 of the plastic grips so
actually it seemed very secure even with one broken. I did press on
it some but yet the temperature did not change at all
Then what I did is removed it and put some more of the thermal gel or
whatever it is called. When I mounted the fan I probably moved it
around a little because most of the thermal gel seemed to be around
the center part, not on it, so maybe that was my problem. I put the
thermal gel on it and remounted and then restarted the computer. I
saw it was running far cooler at 1300 mhz. so upped it once again to
2167 mhz. Well now at that speed it's running around 144 F. Earlier
if I remember right that was 167 F so that's over 20 degrees
different. No lockups but it's only been running 20 mins. like this
but is holding steady and from what I see it was running around 144 at
1300 and no problems.
Is what I'm seeing now a normal temperature and was it that I didn't
have enough gel? Or is this too hot? The fan seems secure as I said
and if this is all I have tod o and not replace a motherboard/fan or
spend anymore money I'm happy. Yet I was wondering if this coudl be
just a bandaid fix. I would rather spend the money now and fix it
right and if the temperatures are too hot I don't want to shorten the
CPU's lifespan. Yet I know if it gets too hot the system will shut
down.

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 19:54:43 GMT, MarkW
wrote:

Well for an update on my system I have been running it at 1300 mhz. to
keep the CPU cooler. Well I went over 2 days without one lockup and
at one time I was having lockups several times a day so it appears the
CPU heat was the problem. I did do a memtest overnight but everything
came out fine.
I suspected it was my cpu fan/heatsink but when removing it it seemed
secure. Like I said of the 6 plastic pins the one in the upper right
was broken but yet the way this fan mounts (it's a thermaltake) it has
just one piece of metal across it to hold it but the metal has a strip
of metal on each side that connects to all 3 of the plastic grips so
actually it seemed very secure even with one broken. I did press on
it some but yet the temperature did not change at all
Then what I did is removed it and put some more of the thermal gel or
whatever it is called. When I mounted the fan I probably moved it
around a little because most of the thermal gel seemed to be around
the center part, not on it, so maybe that was my problem. I put the
thermal gel on it and remounted and then restarted the computer. I
saw it was running far cooler at 1300 mhz. so upped it once again to
2167 mhz. Well now at that speed it's running around 144 F. Earlier
if I remember right that was 167 F so that's over 20 degrees
different. No lockups but it's only been running 20 mins. like this
but is holding steady and from what I see it was running around 144 at
1300 and no problems.
Is what I'm seeing now a normal temperature and was it that I didn't
have enough gel? Or is this too hot? The fan seems secure as I said
and if this is all I have tod o and not replace a motherboard/fan or
spend anymore money I'm happy. Yet I was wondering if this coudl be
just a bandaid fix. I would rather spend the money now and fix it
right and if the temperatures are too hot I don't want to shorten the
CPU's lifespan. Yet I know if it gets too hot the system will shut
down.

144F is a little too hot IMO, especially if that's an idle temp...
it'll get hotter with full load. You might run a stress test like
CPUBurn (Google search will find it) and see how hot it gets... leave
CPUBurn running for half an hour and then try to use the system (with
CPUBurn set to 'idle' setting), see if it's stable or too hot.

Then again, that may be all your heatsink can manage, it might be
mounted good and it's just not a very efficient heatsink. I would be
concerned though, if the 'sink will stay put or not... unless the
'sink was very rough on the bottom there's no reason you should've
seen a 20C temp difference by reappling heatsink compound, unless the
heastsink was really partially off the chip, but now isn't. The
question then is, is it mounted differently, so that it won't again
make lesser contact in the future?

Frankly, I'd be a bit paranoid from what you're described, I'd take a
piece of fishing line or something and run it through the holes on the
motherboard and through the heatsink, so if it did come loose, the
fishing line may keep it somewhat interfaced with the CPU or at least
not falling off. Then again, with the 'sink only using one lug on one
side, the more often you remove and reattach it, the more likely
you'll wear away at the remaining socket lug and it'll break off.

The ideal temp range for your CPU, unless you had a very expensive
cooler, would be in the 40-55C range, at full load, running something
like CPUBurn or Seti, Folding@Home, etc.


Dave