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Question about backups with Ghost



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 20th 06, 12:11 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
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Default Question about backups with Ghost

Question for the experts.....

I have never used Ghost before so here is my setup.

Win xp sp2 with two internal sata drives each in a removeable drawer.

System drive is C

Storage drive is D

What I'd love to be able to do is the following:

Back up Drive C to Drive D so that if something gets screwed up i can simply
remove Drive C and then the "D" drive would become an exact replacement
which would pick up where "C" left off.

Is this possible?

Can I do Incremental backups nightly which would only backup files and
folders which have changed without copying the entire contents?

If thiis is indeed possible....how can a backup drive which is a clone of
the original boot at the same time as the system drive, how does windows
know the difference?

TIA

jeff


  #2  
Old March 20th 06, 12:31 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
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Default Question about backups with Ghost

No. It is not possible.
First of all you schedule your "backup" nightly, so when you decide to swap
them, it is not the same time as you "left off your C drive".
Secondly, your D drive must be invisible to OS when C drive is active, yet
be able to start normally when swapped. The only way to achieve that is to
have it powered down except backup. Unless you put a programmable switch on
D drive power line, I do not see how can one achieve that.


  #3  
Old March 20th 06, 01:05 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
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Default Question about backups with Ghost


"Jeff" wrote in message ...
Question for the experts.....

I have never used Ghost before so here is my setup.

Win xp sp2 with two internal sata drives each in a removeable drawer.

System drive is C

Storage drive is D

What I'd love to be able to do is the following:

Back up Drive C to Drive D so that if something gets screwed up i can
simply remove Drive C and then the "D" drive would become an exact
replacement which would pick up where "C" left off.

Is this possible?

Can I do Incremental backups nightly which would only backup files and
folders which have changed without copying the entire contents?

If thiis is indeed possible....how can a backup drive which is a clone of
the original boot at the same time as the system drive, how does windows
know the difference?


I used to do this on my old Win98SE machine, and never had a problem. I
would keep D: in the machine at all times, then clone C: to D: once per
week, doing incremental backups of critical files via batch files in the
interim. These batch files were run once per hour by Task Scheduler.

But XP is a different animal, and I read caveats that no second drive
containing the OS should be in the same system while running any NT-based
OS. When I upgraded to XP in 2003, I decided to discontinue this procedure
after talking with M$ tech support. They suggested it might not be a good
idea.

Now I have five old but working IDE HD's in mobile racks that I rotate for
weekly cloning. If I need a file from one of those HD's, I insert it in my
USB2 mobile rack and extract it. This introduces this clone to the system,
but I've never had a problem. There have also been times when I accidently
left it in and running for hours at a time, also with no ill effects.
I use Ghost 2003, the DOS version that boots from a floppy or CD outside
Windows.

I'm still running the batch files once per hour, but D: now contains copies
of critical folders, like business databases. So if I have a failure of C:,
I can boot from my most recent clone and be up and running, missing only the
files created or changed since that clone was made. Copying the files
dutifully backed up to D: in the interim back to C: restores the status quo.
Program updates and new installs are not covered by this procedure, but
that's something I'll deal with in due time.

  #4  
Old March 20th 06, 02:33 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
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Default Question about backups with Ghost


"Peter" wrote in message
...
No. It is not possible.
First of all you schedule your "backup" nightly, so when you decide to
swap
them, it is not the same time as you "left off your C drive".
Secondly, your D drive must be invisible to OS when C drive is active, yet
be able to start normally when swapped. The only way to achieve that is to
have it powered down except backup. Unless you put a programmable switch
on
D drive power line, I do not see how can one achieve that.



If the second drive was an "esata" external sata (treated as internal to the
OS) would this work since it could be disconnected?

Also, once the failing "c" drive was disconnected, would the esata boot
normally?

Do incremental backups with Ghost (dont quite know which version to use yet)
replace folders which have changed no matter if they are larger or smaller?

What i mean to say, is, if a folder is less than size because some files in
that folder have been deleted, will the cloned copy in an incremental back
up show the reduced size of that folder?

TIA

jeff


  #5  
Old March 20th 06, 02:45 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
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Default Question about backups with Ghost

Jeff wrote

I have never used Ghost before so here is my setup.


I dont think Ghost is the best product for
this sort of use, True Image is much better.

Win xp sp2 with two internal sata drives each in a removeable drawer.


System drive is C


Storage drive is D


What I'd love to be able to do is the following:


Back up Drive C to Drive D so that if something gets screwed up i can
simply remove Drive C and then the "D" drive would become an exact
replacement which would pick up where "C" left off.


Is this possible?


Yes.

Can I do Incremental backups nightly which would only backup files and
folders which have changed without copying the entire contents?


Nope. xxclone can do that tho.

If thiis is indeed possible....how can a backup drive which is a clone of
the original boot at the same time as the system drive, how does windows
know the difference?


Thats controlled by which drive you specify
to boot off in the motherboard bios.

Its also possible to setup a more complicated config
using the standard xp boot manager which allows you
to specify which drive you want to boot off at boot
time. Little bit fiddly to setup, but quite doable.

The fundamental question is tho whether you really
need to be able to boot off the spare so quickly.


  #6  
Old March 20th 06, 02:49 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
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Default Question about backups with Ghost

Peter wrote

No. It is not possible.


Yes it is.

First of all you schedule your "backup" nightly, so when you decide
to swap them, it is not the same time as you "left off your C drive".


Want to try that again in english ?

Secondly, your D drive must be invisible to OS when C drive is active,


No it doesnt.

yet be able to start normally when swapped. The only way
to achieve that is to have it powered down except backup.


Wrong. All you actually need to do is never boot the D
drive with the C drive visible. You only need to do that
when the C drive has failed, so that is no big deal at all.

Unless you put a programmable switch on D drive
power line, I do not see how can one achieve that.


Trivial, just have them both powered all the time, dont
boot off the D drive with the C drive visible. Just power
down the C drive manually before booting the D drive.
No big deal since by definition you have to be there
to specify booting off the D drive anyway.


  #7  
Old March 20th 06, 02:55 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
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Default Question about backups with Ghost

Bob Davis wrote
Jeff wrote


I have never used Ghost before so here is my setup.


Win xp sp2 with two internal sata drives each in a removeable drawer.


System drive is C


Storage drive is D


What I'd love to be able to do is the following:


Back up Drive C to Drive D so that if something gets screwed up i can
simply remove Drive C and then the "D" drive would become an exact
replacement which would pick up where "C" left off.


Is this possible?


Can I do Incremental backups nightly which would only backup files
and folders which have changed without copying the entire contents?


If thiis is indeed possible....how can a backup drive which is a
clone of the original boot at the same time as the system drive,
how does windows know the difference?


I used to do this on my old Win98SE machine, and never had a problem.
I would keep D: in the machine at all times, then clone C: to D: once
per week, doing incremental backups of critical files via batch files in
the interim. These batch files were run once per hour by Task Scheduler.


But XP is a different animal, and I read caveats that no second drive
containing the OS should be in the same system while running any NT-based
OS.


That is just plain wrong. All you have to do is
avoid BOOTING the D drive with the C drive visible.

When I upgraded to XP in 2003, I decided to discontinue
this procedure after talking with M$ tech support. They suggested it
might not be a good idea.


They're wrong.

Now I have five old but working IDE HD's in mobile racks that I
rotate for weekly cloning. If I need a file from one of those HD's,
I insert it in my USB2 mobile rack and extract it. This introduces
this clone to the system, but I've never had a problem.


You wont as long as you dont boot it.

There have also been times when I accidently left it in and running for
hours at a time, also with no ill effects.


You wont get any as long as you dont boot it.

I use Ghost 2003, the DOS version that boots from a floppy or CD outside
Windows.


True Image is much better and you dont have
to boot from floppy or CD if you dont want to.

I'm still running the batch files once per hour, but D: now contains
copies of critical folders, like business databases. So if I have a
failure of C:, I can boot from my most recent clone and be up and
running, missing only the files created or changed since that clone was
made. Copying the files dutifully backed up to D: in the interim back to
C: restores the status quo. Program updates and new installs are not
covered by this procedure, but that's something I'll deal
with in due time.


His approach gets it booted off the D drive much more
quickly. The only thing he has to do is unplug or depower
the C drive for the first boot of the D drive. He can plug
it back in again or repower it after XP has booted and
rebooted once and can get any files that have changed
since the last backup off the C drive in that config too
if the C drive isnt too bad and still spins up and mounts.


  #8  
Old March 20th 06, 08:26 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
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Default Question about backups with Ghost

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:11:28 -0500, "Jeff" wrote:

Question for the experts.....

I have never used Ghost before so here is my setup.

Win xp sp2 with two internal sata drives each in a removeable drawer.

System drive is C

Storage drive is D

What I'd love to be able to do is the following:

Back up Drive C to Drive D so that if something gets screwed up i can simply
remove Drive C and then the "D" drive would become an exact replacement
which would pick up where "C" left off.

Is this possible?

Can I do Incremental backups nightly which would only backup files and
folders which have changed without copying the entire contents?

If thiis is indeed possible....how can a backup drive which is a clone of
the original boot at the same time as the system drive, how does windows
know the difference?


When Windows sees two identical drives, it changes the disk signature
of the second one. So if you want to be able to boot the clone, save a
copy of the orignal drive's MBR. When it becomes time to boot the
clone, replace the clone's MBR with the one you saved. Then you'll be
able to boot the clone.


TIA

jeff


  #9  
Old March 20th 06, 10:24 AM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
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Default Question about backups with Ghost

Andy wrote:
On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:11:28 -0500, "Jeff" wrote:

Question for the experts.....

I have never used Ghost before so here is my setup.

Win xp sp2 with two internal sata drives each in a removeable drawer.

System drive is C

Storage drive is D

What I'd love to be able to do is the following:

Back up Drive C to Drive D so that if something gets screwed up i
can simply remove Drive C and then the "D" drive would become an
exact replacement which would pick up where "C" left off.

Is this possible?

Can I do Incremental backups nightly which would only backup files
and folders which have changed without copying the entire contents?

If thiis is indeed possible....how can a backup drive which is a
clone of the original boot at the same time as the system drive,
how does windows know the difference?


When Windows sees two identical drives, it changes the disk signature
of the second one. So if you want to be able to boot the clone, save a
copy of the orignal drive's MBR. When it becomes time to boot the
clone, replace the clone's MBR with the one you saved. Then you'll be
able to boot the clone.


You dont need to do that to boot the clone.


  #10  
Old March 20th 06, 01:38 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
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Default Question about backups with Ghost


"Jeff" wrote in message ...
Question for the experts.....

I have never used Ghost before so here is my setup.

Win xp sp2 with two internal sata drives each in a removeable drawer.

System drive is C

Storage drive is D

What I'd love to be able to do is the following:

Back up Drive C to Drive D so that if something gets screwed up i can

simply
remove Drive C and then the "D" drive would become an exact replacement
which would pick up where "C" left off.

Is this possible?

Can I do Incremental backups nightly which would only backup files and
folders which have changed without copying the entire contents?

If thiis is indeed possible....how can a backup drive which is a clone of
the original boot at the same time as the system drive, how does windows
know the difference?

TIA

jeff

You could go about this a different way - I use Ghost weekly to make an
image of the C: drive and save it (compressed) to the D: drive. As I only
use the C: drive for XP and some core apps the resulting image is only 4.5gb
and fits easily onto DVD for extra security.
Incidentally I use Ghost 2003 DOS executable which is only 900 Kb, but does
not allow incremental backups - but a whole drive can be imaged in a few
minutes.
You could also make an image of the D: drive and store it on C:
Advantage of images is that you get to actually use the drives for other
things rather then just being copies of another drive!
Ghost images work fine - if you ever have a drive fail you just pop in a new
one and create drive form image, and in a few minutes you get a clone of
your old drive back.
I only use disk-to-disk cloning when upgrading say to a bigger or faster
drive - more of a one-off clone so both drives are not sitting in the PC at
the same time - though I have done this without any issues.
Another method for cloning drives is to use a removeable drive caddy -
15ish - and just stick in the backup drive when you want to do a backup -
advantage then is that drive can be kept in another room / building so even
if a real disaster strikes you have a copy.
GTS


 




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