Epson admits that using their tanks will void your warranty!

Perhaps Newky Brown would do a better job?

Now ya' talkin' - but that's wot Canon uses in their pigmant black!

Tony wrote:

Sorry Burt
I hadn't realised that you were El Presidente of the Refillers Club....I am
sure that I voted for you at some time in the past.



You got it wrong. He is "Father Burt" of the AfterMarket Club -
Refillers Division.

Naturally you have my undying support, it is important that those of us (like
you and I)


Pals forever branded

that know absolutely nothing about anything support each other in
this our hour of need.



You share the same steed

I am however beginning to wonder whether a coup is being planned by persons
unknown, what do you think?



Maybe its WeStink

Don't worry I won't let you down.


Do not frown

Please do not resign.
Your loyal subject
Tony



Which Tony

Tony da Tiger or Tony da Webber

ps. I love pumpkins, they look great on Halloween...
pps. What's the pay like?


"Burt" wrote:


Lokki - the question of the day is --- what percentage of your customers
either ask you if you use OEM inks or demand that the photos they buy are
printed with OEM inks? None, you say? How many have told you that they
will only buy your prints if you use a canon IP4000 printer with OEM inks?
I can't believe you said none. Aren't they aware that at the stroke of
midnight pictures printed with non-OEM inks will turn into a pumpkin?

I have always demanded that the mechanic who repairs my cars use only
Snap-on tools. Very important that no compatable tools from Sears touch my
car. Nothing but OEM for me and my pal, Measekite. He has convinced me
that I should resign my position as the president of the Refillers Club (he
described the nonexistant club and elected me to the exalted position of
president). Then he and I can and buy OEM carts from Costco on our twice
monthly trips there - for the rest of my life or the life of my printer,
whichever ends first. Good deal - you save $3 per cart. I'm glad he
convinced me that this is far better than saving $9 on a compatable cart or
$11 on a cart refill. It takes an MBA to figure this out.

"measekite" wrote in message
. com...


Maybe you have a competitor that sells prints that are made with an
expensive dye sub printer where the prints really last.

If you sell your prints for that much then you can afford to give your
customers OEM ink.

lokki wrote:



measekitewrote:





I have someone else do that for me.




This is intended to show what, exactly? Presuming enough money, this
could be your answer to just about everything. However, I think you
intended this as a nose-thumbing remark. Given your general approach
to communication here, I'll leave you to figure out just how
ineffective this kind of statement is... which you will probably
never do.

Just as a point of reference, I use my Epson 2200 to produce prints
that win competitions and sell for several hundred dollars. The price
limit is not the print quality, but my skill as a photographer. And I
use 3rd party inks.

But really, the point is that the printer is a tool. One selects a
tool, learns how to use it, and eventually (hopefully) masters it.
Knowing how you have to treat it, what its limitations are, and how
to work within those limitations are essential with any tool, be it
printer, camera, musical instrument, computer, or hammer. And I'm
sure you've heard that it's a poor carpenter who blames his
hammer...

So! We know your views, and you've not contributed anything new in
quite some time. While I enjoy watching people such as yourself
expose their own limitations, nothing really comes of it except some
mild entertainment. At the very least, you are vaguely amusing.
Here's a suggestion; make a new thread entitled something like 'Why
Epson Sucks - My Informed Bias' and spew forth all your thoughts
(sarcastic remark witheld). I further invite everyone to let you have
your space and ignore you to give you the illusion of being
unchallenged. Does that work for you?

On Sun, 15 May 2005 10:00:32 +0000,
lid (Davy) wrote:

Perhaps Newky Brown would do a better job?

Now ya' talkin' - but that's wot Canon uses in their pigmant black!

LOL!

--

Hecate - The Real One

Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
you don't have, to impress people you don't like...

Windex and it's generic compliments are made up of water, glycol,
alcohol, and ammonia (in the ammoniated versions), plus colorant. The
ammonia is actually a critical part of the cleaner for both Epson and
Canon OEM inks. They require the ammonia to create the correct ionic
and pH response. I know of many people who have tried non-ammoniated
window cleaner and the results are considerably worse, and sometime
non-effective.

In the case of the OEM pigmented inks from Epson, the ammonia is
critical to the fluid working to unclog the heads.

Anyone wishing more complete instructions on clearing clogs with Epson
printers, as well as other related printing issues, please email me
privately at the same address this is posted from and I will send you a
copy of the Epson Cleaning Manual at no cost.

You will not be spammed, I have nothing to sell you.

I can be more helpful to you if you mention the printer model you are
concerned with, the specific print quality issue you are seeing, and if
you are using OEM or 3rd party inks.

Art

Burt wrote:

Look for a post near the top of the NG by Arthur Entlich, email him, and ask
him for his Epson cleaning manual. He has a simple formula for print head
cleaning in his manual that you'd best get from him. It is made up of
either the original Windex or the windex that has "ammonia D" - not the
dripless one - plus alcohol. Read his manual for proportions. I used it on
my Epson Stylus 900 to clean the case, waste ink pad, and print head. Also
used it in cartridges to clear out a head clog. Don't try it in yours until
you read his info. It works on dye based ink printers, but he has some
caviats about the pigment based ink printers. Pharmacies have 70% and 90%
isopropyl alcohol and both work. Someone sent me an MSDS on Windex and one
of the main ingredients is, guess what --- alcohol! I'm sure that the trace
of ammonia also helps with print head cleaning. For those of you not in the
US there are comparable window cleaning products.

"lokki" wrote in message
news:3d1fb$428602fc$455da0d2$24760@allthenewsgroup s.com...

Davy,

After checking around, I don't think IPA will damage the plastics at
all... I was thinking of Acetone, which will definately attack
plastics. Sorry for the confusion!

Maybe I'll buy some spare parts and soak them in IPA to see if there's
any affect on the rubber belts. Nylon and teflon should be very safe,
so no worries there. One of my biggest problems right now is on a
9600, so I'm not quite ready to just give it a go. I might test on a
2200, since we are likely replacing at least one of them soon.

No dye sub prints last nearly as long as good quality pigmented inkjet
inks, based upon accelerated aging tests.

Some 3rd party inks may be superior to some OEM inks.

Art


measekite wrote:

Maybe you have a competitor that sells prints that are made with an
expensive dye sub printer where the prints really last.

If you sell your prints for that much then you can afford to give your
customers OEM ink.

lokki wrote:

In fairness, as much as an inkjet printer may be a tool, the ink and
paper are the product the print purchaser buys. You may not demand
"Snap-On" tools be used, any more than a photographic client would
demand Nikon bodies or lens. But the print's longevity is at issue for
someone purchasing a work of art. I do get people asking about inks and
papers. And I am pleased to see that people buying inkjet (or Giclee)
prints are asking, because it's a fair and important question for people
who buy art they hope to keep, either as a family heirloom, or an
investment.

Getting back to your car, although you may not demand 'Snap-On' tolls,
you may wish OEM car parts, or at least those made by a reputable 3rd
party manufacturer. I only put NGK plugs in my car, because I know the
quality in Spark Plugs can make a performance difference. I don't buy a
spark plug wrench with the same considerations, although even tools do
matter, but not to the end user of the product, usually.

Art

Burt wrote:

Lokki - the question of the day is --- what percentage of your customers
either ask you if you use OEM inks or demand that the photos they buy are
printed with OEM inks? None, you say? How many have told you that they
will only buy your prints if you use a canon IP4000 printer with OEM inks?
I can't believe you said none. Aren't they aware that at the stroke of
midnight pictures printed with non-OEM inks will turn into a pumpkin?

I have always demanded that the mechanic who repairs my cars use only
Snap-on tools. Very important that no compatable tools from Sears touch my
car. Nothing but OEM for me and my pal, Measekite. He has convinced me
that I should resign my position as the president of the Refillers Club (he
described the nonexistant club and elected me to the exalted position of
president). Then he and I can and buy OEM carts from Costco on our twice
monthly trips there - for the rest of my life or the life of my printer,
whichever ends first. Good deal - you save $3 per cart. I'm glad he
convinced me that this is far better than saving $9 on a compatable cart or
$11 on a cart refill. It takes an MBA to figure this out.

"measekite" wrote in message
m...

Maybe you have a competitor that sells prints that are made with an
expensive dye sub printer where the prints really last.

If you sell your prints for that much then you can afford to give your
customers OEM ink.

lokki wrote:

Art - I agree wholeheartedly with the premise that a person purchasing an
inkjet print as a work of art would be best served to have it printed with
pigmented inks as used in the higher end Epson printers rather than Epson or
Canon dye based inks. When it comes to Canon OEM vs. the better Canon third
party inks, however, my suspicion is that we are dealing with a fairly
narrow spread in months or years of fade resistance from one to the other.
I forgot the link to the rather crude tests that were done with swabs in
comparing various Canon third party inks vs. OEM Canon ink, but there were a
few that were extremely close both in color and fade characteristics. The
Wilhelm tests were on inks that I've never seen recommended by any
individual on a NG or forum, so I don't know how to apply their info to the
inks I am seeing recommended. Suffice to say, the dye based inks don't fare
as well when subjected to light sources and air quality issues that are
known to degrade these images.

When it comes to automotive tools - like any other tool that one wishes to
use reliably over a long period of time, quality counts. Cheap wrenches
tend to get distorted and can dog-ear nuts and bolts and complicate an
otherwise simple job. Cheap screwdriver tips likewise. That there are
several sources of quality tools is well known and the "brand" or cost of a
tool the mechanic uses is of less concern than the quality of work he does
with it.

My use of non-OEM inks in my Canon printer serves my needs. My photo prints
are (from side-by-side comparison) every bit as beautiful as with OEM inks.
I can print and widely distribute my photos to friends and family members
without regard to cost of materials and they can enjoy them in the "here and
now" and discard them later if they wish. The pictures I blow up and
display in my home will be replaced by newer photos now and then, and they
are not intended to be archival quality. It is just annoying to see someone
issue a blanket condemnation of all third party vendors and their products.
If others wish to consider non-OEM inks they should be able to read
objective pros and cons instead of the scare tactics and opinionated rants.
I never intended to become the spokesman for ink vendors - I just hate to
see legitimate business people and their products villified.

"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
news:bx0ie.1371659$6l.287031@pd7tw2no...
In fairness, as much as an inkjet printer may be a tool, the ink and paper
are the product the print purchaser buys. You may not demand "Snap-On"
tools be used, any more than a photographic client would demand Nikon
bodies or lens. But the print's longevity is at issue for someone
purchasing a work of art. I do get people asking about inks and papers.
And I am pleased to see that people buying inkjet (or Giclee) prints are
asking, because it's a fair and important question for people who buy art
they hope to keep, either as a family heirloom, or an investment.

Getting back to your car, although you may not demand 'Snap-On' tolls, you
may wish OEM car parts, or at least those made by a reputable 3rd party
manufacturer. I only put NGK plugs in my car, because I know the quality
in Spark Plugs can make a performance difference. I don't buy a spark
plug wrench with the same considerations, although even tools do matter,
but not to the end user of the product, usually.

Art

Burt wrote:

Lokki - the question of the day is --- what percentage of your customers
either ask you if you use OEM inks or demand that the photos they buy are
printed with OEM inks? None, you say? How many have told you that they
will only buy your prints if you use a canon IP4000 printer with OEM
inks? I can't believe you said none. Aren't they aware that at the
stroke of midnight pictures printed with non-OEM inks will turn into a
pumpkin?

I have always demanded that the mechanic who repairs my cars use only
Snap-on tools. Very important that no compatable tools from Sears touch
my car. Nothing but OEM for me and my pal, Measekite. He has convinced
me that I should resign my position as the president of the Refillers
Club (he described the nonexistant club and elected me to the exalted
position of president). Then he and I can and buy OEM carts from Costco
on our twice monthly trips there - for the rest of my life or the life
of my printer, whichever ends first. Good deal - you save $3 per cart.
I'm glad he convinced me that this is far better than saving $9 on a
compatable cart or $11 on a cart refill. It takes an MBA to figure this
out.

"measekite" wrote in message
m...

Maybe you have a competitor that sells prints that are made with an
expensive dye sub printer where the prints really last.

If you sell your prints for that much then you can afford to give your
customers OEM ink.

lokki wrote:

I don't think we disagree. I was just trying to better pigeonhole the
different markets. For someone purchasing an inkjet print as a
collectable art form, quality and permanence of the paper and ink are
paramount.

I own a lot of tools, and do most of my own mechanical and carpentry
work. If I buy a poor tool, I pay the consequence at times. It may be
less efficient, or less functional, it may break, it may ruin the part I
am working on, it may require replacement more often.

I typically buy tools of any type based upon how often I foresee needing
it. My general toolkits are made up of higher quality products, because
I use those tools regularly. However, unless absolute precession is
required, tools that I know I may need only once a year or less, will
probably be of lower quality to justify cost versus use.

However, if I was working on someone else's cars all day, I would buy
better tolls to insure against damaging their property and well as
wishing to have functional tools. When people produce prints for sale,
they should be using good quality inks and appears to assure the client
gets the value they expect. If you and you family are the consumers of
your inkjet output, then the decision if obviously yours to make.

Art


Burt wrote:

Art - I agree wholeheartedly with the premise that a person purchasing an
inkjet print as a work of art would be best served to have it printed with
pigmented inks as used in the higher end Epson printers rather than Epson or
Canon dye based inks. When it comes to Canon OEM vs. the better Canon third
party inks, however, my suspicion is that we are dealing with a fairly
narrow spread in months or years of fade resistance from one to the other.
I forgot the link to the rather crude tests that were done with swabs in
comparing various Canon third party inks vs. OEM Canon ink, but there were a
few that were extremely close both in color and fade characteristics. The
Wilhelm tests were on inks that I've never seen recommended by any
individual on a NG or forum, so I don't know how to apply their info to the
inks I am seeing recommended. Suffice to say, the dye based inks don't fare
as well when subjected to light sources and air quality issues that are
known to degrade these images.

When it comes to automotive tools - like any other tool that one wishes to
use reliably over a long period of time, quality counts. Cheap wrenches
tend to get distorted and can dog-ear nuts and bolts and complicate an
otherwise simple job. Cheap screwdriver tips likewise. That there are
several sources of quality tools is well known and the "brand" or cost of a
tool the mechanic uses is of less concern than the quality of work he does
with it.

My use of non-OEM inks in my Canon printer serves my needs. My photo prints
are (from side-by-side comparison) every bit as beautiful as with OEM inks.
I can print and widely distribute my photos to friends and family members
without regard to cost of materials and they can enjoy them in the "here and
now" and discard them later if they wish. The pictures I blow up and
display in my home will be replaced by newer photos now and then, and they
are not intended to be archival quality. It is just annoying to see someone
issue a blanket condemnation of all third party vendors and their products.
If others wish to consider non-OEM inks they should be able to read
objective pros and cons instead of the scare tactics and opinionated rants.
I never intended to become the spokesman for ink vendors - I just hate to
see legitimate business people and their products villified.

"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
news:bx0ie.1371659$6l.287031@pd7tw2no...

In fairness, as much as an inkjet printer may be a tool, the ink and paper
are the product the print purchaser buys. You may not demand "Snap-On"
tools be used, any more than a photographic client would demand Nikon
bodies or lens. But the print's longevity is at issue for someone
purchasing a work of art. I do get people asking about inks and papers.
And I am pleased to see that people buying inkjet (or Giclee) prints are
asking, because it's a fair and important question for people who buy art
they hope to keep, either as a family heirloom, or an investment.

Getting back to your car, although you may not demand 'Snap-On' tolls, you
may wish OEM car parts, or at least those made by a reputable 3rd party
manufacturer. I only put NGK plugs in my car, because I know the quality
in Spark Plugs can make a performance difference. I don't buy a spark
plug wrench with the same considerations, although even tools do matter,
but not to the end user of the product, usually.

Art

Burt wrote:


Lokki - the question of the day is --- what percentage of your customers
either ask you if you use OEM inks or demand that the photos they buy are
printed with OEM inks? None, you say? How many have told you that they
will only buy your prints if you use a canon IP4000 printer with OEM
inks? I can't believe you said none. Aren't they aware that at the
stroke of midnight pictures printed with non-OEM inks will turn into a
pumpkin?

I have always demanded that the mechanic who repairs my cars use only
Snap-on tools. Very important that no compatable tools from Sears touch
my car. Nothing but OEM for me and my pal, Measekite. He has convinced
me that I should resign my position as the president of the Refillers
Club (he described the nonexistant club and elected me to the exalted
position of president). Then he and I can and buy OEM carts from Costco
on our twice monthly trips there - for the rest of my life or the life
of my printer, whichever ends first. Good deal - you save $3 per cart.
I'm glad he convinced me that this is far better than saving $9 on a
compatable cart or $11 on a cart refill. It takes an MBA to figure this
out.

"measekite" wrote in message
.com...


Maybe you have a competitor that sells prints that are made with an
expensive dye sub printer where the prints really last.

If you sell your prints for that much then you can afford to give your
customers OEM ink.

lokki wrote: