|
| If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|||||||
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#81
October 9th 05, 04:14 AM
|
|||
|
|||
"Davy" wrote in message . .. Markywrote: [quote] but the majority of people on the internet now have only had a personal computer for a very short period of time and most of those systems came with a new printer. And thjere are people who build their own computer, Epson printers are not supplied with 'ALL' 'ready to go computers. These are the people that usually scream the loudest and do the least about their situation and would rather blame the matter on corporate greed than to spend an hour searching the internet for information. Printers under warrenty should be delt with by the manufacturer not Tom, Dick or Harry. that way and people are, generally, lazy over here and expect that their $40 printer should come with a lifetime guarantee... A 12 month warrenty should mean a 12 month warrenty whether the printer is sold for $5 or $500 That is what the warranty is...one year...regardless of the MSRP... This is a failure on the manufacturer and not the user, it is not the customer who should argue the rights and wrongs of their so called technical experts. Not all the printers fail, if that is what you are implying... If an Epson Tech say's do not do more than 6 cleans or head damage will result I would assume that would be correct. Same difference...actually. Why are you belabouring this issue? If the rep said it will damage the head and you stop doing the cleanings (and save your ink) it has the same effect...they replace the printer under warranty and you have a working printer. Who are you, me or Art to argue, the Tech is employed by Epson can't you understand. I certainly do understand...you spoke with someone who gave you incorrect information and I was merely pointing this out...do you understand how large their workforce is and how often reps come and go? Do you understand what it takes to turn a normal person into a picture-perfect tech support person? Do you know how many mistakes I made over the years and how those mistakes were corrected? Do you understand the cost involved in running a technical support call center and that it is a continuously changing process? Do you realize that there are, literally, hundreds of thousands of people that call and e-mail these people in one year and to screen that type of mistake can take weeks? You had a bad experience...millions have had good to excellent experiences with these call centers...they happen to have streamlined things and provided information on their website to reduce the number of calls/contacts so that their workforce is being used in the most efficient and cost effective way... If the printers are forever clogging and Epson say's you want a new head, hands you another printer and that goes exactly the same way in the same period of time. Customers will get a replacement for up to one year...maybe longer if you have repeated failures... whether refurbished or not it was supplied by Epson who should ensure that printer is going to be reliable. And most times they do...if it fails again in the warranty they usually replace it free of charge...if it is outside of the warranty in North America they can either do a warranty exception and replace the unit or refer you to a service center and often cover the parts and labour if it is not too far out of warranty... You have said people expect a lifetime warrenty on other ocassions, I would have expected someone like you to understand that 12 months warrenty means that faulty products will be fix or replaced in that period And they do...I had to set up hundreds, maybe thousands of products for exchanges during the time I was there...and didn't see too many cases where there were repeat failures...it is all documented on their system... I expect the product to be either fixed or exchanged , you seem to assuming that I expect a lifetime warrenty and I exclude the nozzle cleans here. I didn't say you, but if you expected out of warranty replacements then they can do that if you're civil with them...if you blow up and demand something there is a good chance they will tell you they can't help you...they are, after all, people who live and work and also buy products that sometimes fail...many of them know exactly what to expect from the manufacturer...and most people do not bother after the warranty is expired unless they've had repeated issues with the product or they are in a tight spot and/or want to get a freebee from someone... It would be interesting to cross reference databases with companies like HP, Canon and others to see if they are getting the same customers recycled...or exchanged if you prefer... I said this before, but you'd be surprised how many printers came in for warranty work that had nothing wrong with them...except the customer didn't want to replace the ink and knew that Epson would send them another printer with new ink cartridges...free! The honest, hard working people are the ones who end up paying for that... Now, if or when you need to contact Canon support I'd be really interested to see what your experience is with them...I've heard some manufacturers offer 90 days of free phone support and then you have to pay per incident... Cheers! 
|
|
#82
October 9th 05, 11:44 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
needed one manual clean, compare that to a printer that clogged on the 2nd and 4th day. If you care to take time and read user's reviews about 'various' Epson printers you will see that they are problematic, why are so many people asking for help, I say again, all printers clog Epson are the worse offenders. Davy
|
|
#83
October 9th 05, 10:08 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Davy" wrote in message . ..[i] Quote:
Quote:
I have had no need to contact Canon, it ain't clogged yet...nor needed one manual clean, compare that to a printer that clogged on the 2nd and 4th day. If you care to take time and read user's reviews about 'various' Epson printers you will see that they are problematic, why are so many people asking for help, I say again, all printers clog Epson are the worse offenders. Davy I'd say that you are convinced of that based on your two printers...not a very wide population to do any real statistical analysis of the situation...but significant nonetheless...to you...
|
|
#84
October 9th 05, 11:36 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
uote="Marky
Actually, it has everything to do with your experience...you got caught in a worm-hole that shouldn't have been opened... Quite right - I shouldn't have bought Epson so that their workforce is being used in the most efficient and cost effective way... Really...! No, actually I'm Aquarius...what sign are you? Are you on planet Earth...? Into astrology now are we..? I'd say that you are convinced of that based on your two printers...not a very wide population to do any real statistical analysis of the situation...but significant nonetheless...to you.. Yes indeed you are right I based the experience on two printers, along with other Epson user comments and along with other peoples opinions and the so-called Epson Technicians that according to you have a very limited amount of intelligence and who can't tell the truth. That tells me they don't know what the hell they'er talking about, it is obvious it tells you otherwise as you can not see the point. With Epson you get clog after clog after clog and a load of bull according to you from their so-called technicians That is why I say Epson is poor or plainly speaking - crap...! Davy
|
|
#85
October 10th 05, 01:12 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Davy" wrote in message . .. uote="Marky Actually, it has everything to do with your experience...you got caught in a worm-hole that shouldn't have been opened... Quite right - I shouldn't have bought Epson Well, since you have already said that a few times... so that their workforce is being used in the most efficient and cost effective way... Really...! Truly!~ No, actually I'm Aquarius...what sign are you? Are you on planet Earth...? Into astrology now are we..? Earth...and, yes, as a matter of fact I am...does that make you somehow superior to me? BTW, it was a an injectioin of levity...you are way too serious about slamming Epson or trying to make me sound silly... I read your previous posts when this was first discussed but stopped responding to you because you resorted to name calling and other childish tactics...let's not go there, OK...I've been posting on newsgroups for a long time and I know where these things go...but I'm not afraid to go there...IYKWIM...give that angle a rest will ya? I'd say that you are convinced of that based on your two printers...not a very wide population to do any real statistical analysis of the situation...but significant nonetheless...to you.. Yes indeed you are right I based the experience on two printers, along with other Epson user comments and along with other peoples opinions and the so-called Epson Technicians that according to you have a very limited amount of intelligence and who can't tell the truth. I can see that having any kind of discussion with you is difficult because you are fixated with this tech telling you it will wear out the head...as I tried to explain, this is wrong and I doubt that it went much farther than you and maybe a few others...this was Epson UK so I don't really know for sure...but I do know for a fact that NA techs do not follow that line...they tell you plain and simple that it wastes ink... That tells me they don't know what the hell they'er talking about, it is obvious it tells you otherwise as you can not see the point. I can see the point, but it was one rep of probably two hundred...if they are still saying this then maybe Epson UK doesn't care...but I've seen reps pulled off the phones in my call center and given very stern but guiding advice to not say things like that... With Epson you get clog after clog after clog and a load of bull according to you from their so-called technicians And where is the happy Epson customer newsgroup to tell you that you are wrong...I own several of them and not a single one has ever clogged... That is why I say Epson is poor or plainly speaking - crap...! OK...whatever...
|
|
#86
October 10th 05, 09:43 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
quote="Marky
Well, since you have already said that a few times... No doubt you will continue to buy Epson, even if each and every one went faulty so that their workforce is being used in the most efficient and cost effective way... Truly!~ Then they ought to get proper engineers instead of wannabes Earth...and, yes, as a matter of fact I am...does that make you somehow superior to me? I am not superior to anyone but you do seem to down rate Epson Engineers yourself in the comments you made. BTW, it was a an injectioin of levity...you are way too serious about slamming Epson or trying to make me sound silly... Review your comments, it's you who also said that Epson Techincal wasn't up to scratch - so where does that leave you.. - better than them perhaps..? I read your previous posts when this was first discussed but stopped responding to you because you resorted to name calling and other childish tactics...let's not go there, OK...I've been posting on newsgroups for a long time and I know where these things go...but I'm not afraid to go there...IYKWIM...give that angle a rest will ya? Name calling, have I called you..? I have called Epson, you are making it out I am calling everyone on this NG.. It's childish to denounce and argue against the advice of an engineer, especially the advice given in a letter on Epson headed notepaper... It's plainly obvious either you are wrong or Epson are wrong. I can see that having any kind of discussion with you is difficult because you are fixated with this tech telling you it will wear out the head...as I tried to explain, Saying you know better than a Epson technical engineer are you? If they send you letters that you disagree with, you still say they are wrong, does Epson ever tell the truth in your view that is... I can see the point, but it was one rep of probably two hundred...if they are still saying this then maybe Epson UK doesn't care...but I've seen reps pulled off the phones in my call center and given very stern but guiding advice to not say things like that... May be it is just Epson UK - Epson in general has allowed it to happen.quote] I own several of them and not a single one has ever clogged... Let's hope they stay that way. Davy
|
|
#87
October 10th 05, 12:34 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Davy" wrote in message . .. quote="Marky Well, since you have already said that a few times... No doubt you will continue to buy Epson, even if each and every one went faulty No doubt at all...they are and have been excellent printers in my experience with them... so that their workforce is being used in the most efficient and cost effective way... Truly!~ Then they ought to get proper engineers instead of wannabes Earth...and, yes, as a matter of fact I am...does that make you somehow superior to me? I am not superior to anyone but you do seem to down rate Epson Engineers yourself in the comments you made. I have opinions on some things, but not with the engineering of the print heads...the non-recyclable (for the most part) ink cartridges and the competition for entry level products that end up in landfill sites eventually...I think they should just skip over the entry-level products and go with the mid to high-end products...the C60 that I had was mid-entry level and it is, amazingly enough, a good product...the C40UX and others that had no buttons (Stylus Color 480 and 580) were disposable printers...but Epson did support the warranty for one year and most of them actually lasted longer than the warranty...some did not... But the design is, essentially, good... BTW, it was a an injectioin of levity...you are way too serious about slamming Epson or trying to make me sound silly... Review your comments, it's you who also said that Epson Techincal wasn't up to scratch - so where does that leave you.. - better than them perhaps..? Yes, actually...the one you spoke with was obviously a newby...been there and done that myself...but I was always interested in customer service in the sense that we were supporting a product and giving the correct information in a timely manner was critical...for the most part we were just going through the motions...if the printer did not respond to the recommended cleaning cycles and the customer had changed the ink cartridge(s) and it would still not print then under the warranty we set up the exchange... These calls are not supposed to go over ten minutes...that is how they streamline the process so that more customers can be supported without spending too much time on any one customer...if the rep you spoke with was under a time constraint and was not 100% confident or versed in the "Do and do not Do" scripts then he may have sloughed it off to 'damage the print heads'...some customers expect you stay on the line with them while they run a couple of dozen cleanings, change out a few cartridges, and tell you their life story...in a call center time is money... Under time constraints the tech can become flustered and some (but not all) will respond to this stress with comments that are not 'sanctioned'.... I read your previous posts when this was first discussed but stopped responding to you because you resorted to name calling and other childish tactics...let's not go there, OK...I've been posting on newsgroups for a long time and I know where these things go...but I'm not afraid to go there...IYKWIM...give that angle a rest will ya? Name calling, have I called you..? I have called Epson, you are making it out I am calling everyone on this NG.. It's childish to denounce and argue against the advice of an engineer, especially the advice given in a letter on Epson headed notepaper... Are you sure it was an engineer? It's plainly obvious either you are wrong or Epson are wrong. I can see that having any kind of discussion with you is difficult because you are fixated with this tech telling you it will wear out the head...as I tried to explain, Saying you know better than a Epson technical engineer are you? Are you sure it was an engineer? Being in the support group I had access to Advanced Product Support reps who had more advanced understanding of the fine points of the products, but they were not engineers...these are the people who usually send out letters to customers or the senior techs (like myself) would pass information along to customers as handed down from this group...but none of them or us were engineers...they spoke with engineers directly when needed...but engineers (in NA) do not contact customers...neither do the software developers, senior executives or R&D groups... They are far too busy to deal with individual requests for written statements about product operation...that's what the manual is for...and that's all an end-user is actually entitled to know...design, service, and other proprietary information is not (generally) available to end-users...but techs and APS can certainly generate letters to satisfy a customer's curiosity... Do you still have the letter? It would be interesting to see this document... If they send you letters that you disagree with, you still say they are wrong, does Epson ever tell the truth in your view that is... I can see the point, but it was one rep of probably two hundred...if they are still saying this then maybe Epson UK doesn't care...but I've seen reps pulled off the phones in my call center and given very stern but guiding advice to not say things like that... May be it is just Epson UK - Epson in general has allowed it to happen.quote] I own several of them and not a single one has ever clogged... Let's hope they stay that way. Yes...that's all we can do...
|
|
#88
October 10th 05, 01:35 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
quote="Marky"]
Do you still have the letter? It would be interesting to see this document... Yes I have the 'original' letter somewhere, I did scan it and have it on file which is available. I sent Arthur a copy of it quite a while back, so feel free to take the matter up with him if you wish, that is saying I do not mind it being discussed and would be happy to supply you with a copy. I am not dragging Art into this but I did send him some samples of the problem, to be honest what they were like I can't remember and will stand by whatever he describes 'if' he should do so. Kindly note: The 6 cleans saga I can not prove, I have said this several times, this was in the very early days and was given via telephone, the letter was the result of writing to them and afraid I did not keep that letter to them, but was some time after. Politeness was ensured both way's and no argument resulted at any time. Epson UK doesn't care...but I've seen reps pulled off the phones in my call center and given very stern but guiding advice to not say things like that... Customer service personnel usually goes, I understand, on training seminas for this very problem. For all I know I could have been talking to Tom, Dick or Harry the office cleaner - When they say "Oh, I'll put you through to Technical department", I can not say "Oh, no your not" you just have to take their word, like if Epson said this or Epson said that who is 'anyone to argue..! From what I gathered I whould have been better E-mailing the Simpsons..we are refering to Epson UK, Epson on a whole is surely responsible for their policies, from memory I tried to enquire above and beyond Epson UK. Again I will say, it is the reliability I am on about not the print quality that is not the issue here but the reliability that lead to complete un-usability of two printers - all with OEM ink. Davy
|
|
#89
October 10th 05, 02:06 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
As I mentioned before, I don't like being cornered into being an
apologist for Epson, or any other company for that matter. But fair is fair, and I don't believe you are being that. I don't have the energy to list all the companies where one of more people that represent them, OR their products, or both, disappointed me, or I was provided with faulty merchandise or advice. The truth is more fit in that category than the other way around. However, I try to be fair, although I don't always succeed. I try to recognize that a specific product, or a specific run, or sometimes a specific individual may mess up, and that doesn't condemn a whole company. If I took the tact you have regarding each business that has messed up at some point, I would literally have almost nowhere to go. Simply put, some people have a string of bad luck with a product line or company, and it isn't always an indication of a disastrous company or product line. Art Davy wrote: Arthur Entlichwrote: [quote="Arthur Entlich"]No, it says that Epson UK has/had some poorer employees. It something nearly impossible to screen out of a large organization. Then it's certainly not a good company to deal with.. and how was I to know that about Epson at the time..? Epson suppose to be a renowned company why have they allowed themselves to fall to this standard, they have only their selves to blame, it is clear that they have failed the basic standard if they allow non-technical or semi-skilled people loose on their products. It's not Good for Epson, not good for the customer and not good for business and can rightly be called a poor company or a crap company, it certainly can't be called a good company. As you probably know Art, a fireman as to attain a certain grade, a TV engineer as to achieve a recognised status & a airline pilot as to do the same - so we all exclude Epson engineers from getting suitably qualified before letting loose on their products - might as well call the Simpsons for advice...! Just what are they doing at Seiko Epson apart from sitting on their butts and letting this happen - that is, if this is the case....? Davy
|
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Linear Mode
