Real-world ink longevity test

Michael Johnson wrote:
TJ wrote:
I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for
his funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color
photo. I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper,
and HP ink cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with
aftermarket ink. Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our
living room wall, framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass.
While it is a bright room, the spot where the print hangs does not
receive direct sunlight at any time.

So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print
looks as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully
expect it to look good for years to come.

Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines
would have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically
before it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth.
With just a moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good,
long, time. With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.

We have hundreds upon hundreds of photos printed with after market ink
and they ALL look as good as the day they were printed. Based on my
personal experience, any difference that exists between OEM and after
market ink used in Canon printers is inconsequential to the average user.

That is not true.

wrote:

On Aug 19, 9:29 pm, TJ wrote:



I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for his funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color photo. I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and HP ink cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket ink. Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room wall, framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a bright room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct sunlight at any time. So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print looks as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it to look good for years to come.

You do not understand.  Canon designs their printers and formulates their ink to go with that printer.  They may outsource the actual mfg but they own the process and maintain the quality control and the packaging and everything is up to their specs.  The same is true for Epson and HP.  They do not buy who knows what from some sleezeball in China who is out to make a fast buck (ie dog food, toothpaste, leaded paint for your kid, and magnets on toys to choke your kid) and some fly by night web vendor who will not tell you what they are selling.


Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With just a moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long, time. With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly. TJ -- Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com



Here here! Way to go, TJ- The truth may well be that one can expect a somewhat shorter life from aftermarket inks, but how much, really remains to be seen. I also hear that very few (if any) printer manufactures actually make their own ink, and that the same ink manufacturer that sells ink to , lets say, Canon, will sell the same ink to a reseller to be considered "after market". I will say this, though- the difference in price makes me feel happy about having to reprint the picture in another five years, if needed. I also cant help but think that in another 10 years, we will probably have electronic photo frames replacing prints, as the cost keeps dropping. I can buy an 8x10 here in Toronto for under $200, and I bet in another year, it will be around $80. I use aftermarket dye based ink for my continuous ink system, and buy pigment ink from inksupply.com. Very happy with all I have.

Richard Steinfeld wrote:
TJ wrote:

So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print
looks as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully
expect it to look good for years to come.

TJ, would you be kind enough to tell us what brand of ink you used
and/or who the seller was.

He will not because he cannot. The relabeler will not tell him what the
brand (mfg/fomulator) is.

I'd really appreciate this. Thanks.

Richard

DK wrote:

TJ wrote:



I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for his funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color photo. I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and HP ink cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket ink. Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room wall, framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a bright room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct sunlight at any time. So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print looks as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it to look good for years to come. Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines would have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically before it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With just a moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long, time. With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.



Of course it is OK after a year - it is under glass! Not that there is anyhting wrong with refilling but thus far every single test I am aware of has been pretty unequivocal: aftermarket inks fade faster, sometimes a lot faster, than OEM from reputable vendors (Epson, Canon).


That is correct but there are peole here who preach to the choir.


DK

Michael Johnson wrote:
DK wrote:
TJ wrote:
I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for
his funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a
color photo. I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture
Paper, and HP ink cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with
aftermarket ink. Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on
our living room wall, framed in a dollar store frame and behind
glass. While it is a bright room, the spot where the print hangs
does not receive direct sunlight at any time.

So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print
looks as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully
expect it to look good for years to come.

Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines
would have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading
practically before it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from
the truth. With just a moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can
last a good, long, time. With poor care, even OEM ink will fade
quickly.

Of course it is OK after a year - it is under glass! Not that there
is anyhting wrong with refilling but thus far every single test I am
aware of has been pretty unequivocal: aftermarket inks fade faster,
sometimes a lot faster, than OEM from reputable vendors (Epson, Canon).

Every single print I have produced using after market ink has not
faded at all. Now I don't store them on the dash board of my truck
but I also don't hermetically seal them either. The problem with the
tests I have reviewed is they usually don't test the better after
market inks. Also, many of these tests are done to have a
predetermined outcome which is why they use the more inferior after
market inks to test against the OEM inks. Besides, if I ever do have
a print that fades then all I need to do is print another one. I am
willing to get 95%+ of durability of OEM ink to save 85% of its cost.
A good trade, IMO.

Would you use that junk if you were a professional photographer and sold
your prints?

"DK" wrote in message
...
"NotMe" wrote:
"DK" wrote in message
...
| TJ wrote:
(snip)
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/docs/inkjet-fading.php but if you
search there, you'll find several more. The basic result in all tests
has been very consistent: third party inks, even the better ones like
Image Specialists (e.g., apparently = MIS and Fromulabs),
suck in comparison to OEM when it comes to fade resistance.

Mind you, I refill. If anything, I am *very* surprised why big OEM
companies so consistently come ahead of less known. Obviously,
Canon does not make its inks...

DK

DK - Sensient-Formulabs is an ink formulator. Their product is sold by
alotofthings.com. MIS is presumed to sell inks made by Image Specialist,
another ink formulator. There are a few other vendors - Computer Friends
presumable sells IS inks, and Precision Colors
(http://home.eol.ca/~mikling/) states on their web site that all the inks
they sell are IS inks. I've been told that any vendor that sells IS inks as
well as other formulators inks must sign an agreement with IS to not
advertise the inks they sell as IS inks. Precision only sells IS inks and
is not bound by that requirement.

DK wrote:
"...every single test I am aware
of has been pretty unequivocal: aftermarket inks fade faster,
sometimes a lot faster, than OEM from reputable vendors (Epson,
Canon). "

Amazingly, Kalvins, who made the Universal ink brand, made an
interesting claim. Of all ink sellers, this was one of those "one size
fits all" lines, whose black was dye based.

They offer their own paper. When their ink is used with their own paper,
they claim that the result is water-fast. On the phone, their support
person told me that they have a contract with the US Navy, supplying ink
and paper for use aboard ships due to the permanence of their images.
Now, how their stuff resists light exposure, I can't say.

I tried their black in an HP 940c. I only bought it because it was handy
and cheap, just to see if I could refill my own. Three sheets of their
special paper were included in the ink package as a promotion. I think
that if their claim weren't true, they would not give away the samples
this way (day-am -- I'm gonna have to try this before I run out of the
ink). Of note is that their paper is quite expensive -- another
surprise. I can't say that I'm crazy about the ink -- it's a bit runny,
and I would not buy their stuff again. The company has been purchased by
another outfit -- I forgot the name.

I thought I'd share this anecdote with y'all.

Richard

Richard Steinfeld wrote:
TJ wrote:

So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print
looks as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully
expect it to look good for years to come.

TJ, would you be kind enough to tell us what brand of ink you used
and/or who the seller was.

I'd really appreciate this. Thanks.

Richard

You'll be surprised. Well, maybe not if you've read my other posts over
the last few years. Unfortunately, I don't think it will help you much.
This particular ink came from a refill kit labeled with the name
"Filljet," describing itself as a "pigment-based ink kit" and "for
Hewlett-Packard, Lexmark, and Compaq" printers. That, of course, makes
it a semi-universal ink kit, and therefore not recommended for most
folks. I purchased the kit at a garage sale about five years ago for $5
US. The original kit contained three 25 ml bottles of black, one each of
the three colors, and some syringes and other accessories for refilling.
Even though it was labeled as pigment-based, only the black was
pigmented. The colors were dye-based. There also was another package
bundled with the original kit with three more 25 ml bottles of each
color ink. There was a website listed on the canister, but apparently
the company has since gone out of business.

I bought the kit on a whim when I saw it. It had a $10 price tag on it,
but when I offered $5 the owner took it. That was before I started
coming here, before I learned that not all refill ink was the same.
Still, the ink has performed well for me over the years. I just put the
last of it in with my last refill just last week. I have been more than
satisfied with the results of using this ink. I do not make my living
with my printer - I am a farmer. I print as a hobbyist, and for
farm-related office needs. Most of my prints are not meant to be
displayed for long periods. Much of what I print winds up in a file
folder somewhere.

I'll be needing some other ink the next time I refill. I have another $5
garage sale purchase on hand, an Inkube labeled for HP 600-series
printers. I purchased it years ago, when I was using an Deskjet 612C.
This kit has four 75 ml (or is it 100ml?) bottles of ink and I never did
use it with the 612C. I hate to just throw it away, so I'll probably
give it a try next time I need a refill. My printer is years out of
warranty, and I've already refilled the present set of carts about 10
times. If it messes up, I'll just pop in some new carts.

What do I have to lose?

TJ

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

|
| | I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for
his
| | funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color
photo.
| | I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper, and HP
ink
| | cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with aftermarket ink.
| | Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our living room
wall,
| | framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass. While it is a bright
| | room, the spot where the print hangs does not receive direct sunlight
at
| | any time.
| |
| | So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print
looks
| | as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully expect it
to
| | look good for years to come.
| |
| | Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines
would
| | have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically
before
| | it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth. With
just a
| | moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good, long, time.
| | With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.
| |
| | Of course it is OK after a year - it is under glass! Not that there is
| | anything wrong with refilling but thus far every single test I am
aware
| | of has been pretty unequivocal: aftermarket inks fade faster,
| | sometimes a lot faster, than OEM from reputable vendors (Epson,
| | Canon).
|
| I would question the test. Recall that the tobacco companies published
| studies out the kazoo that smoking was not harmful.
| They even had physicians offering personal endorsements.
|
| FWIW even hand painted oils deteriorate, the rate depends on the more on
the
| environment and care than on the materials used.
|
| If its your livelihood, and you are selling your work- buy original
| ink cartridges (unless you are sure you are doing the right thing
| with reliable ink, of course)
|
| Otherwise for those of us who print as a hobby- Screw the printer
| companies- ask some of us who feel the ink is reliable for a
| recommendation on where to buy.

My point was that the selection of materials is not as critical to the
longevity of the work product as the care and feeding of the work itself
after it is rendered into hard copy.

Even newsprint, if properly mounted will last far beyond archival paper
where the newsprint is properly protected and the archival prints are not.

We have clients with archival quality prints that have not employed proper
mounting techniques and we have clients with 'proof' quality prints that
have employed proper mounting techniques.

Our unscientific observations have shown that those with the proof quality
and proper techniques have out lasted the archival quality prints without
the proper techniques.

We maintain offsite storage of all our digital files. If something happens
(think Katrina) to our clients or our studio we have the full capacity to
replace the work product.

"measekite" wrote in message
t...
|
|
| Michael Johnson wrote:
| TJ wrote:
| I printed a copy of a one-page magazine article about my father for
| his funeral 13 months ago. The article included both text and a color
| photo. I used an HP PSC 2110 printer, Kodak Premium Picture Paper,
| and HP ink cartridges that I had refilled numerous times with
| aftermarket ink. Since the funeral, the print has been hanging on our
| living room wall, framed in a dollar store frame and behind glass.
| While it is a bright room, the spot where the print hangs does not
| receive direct sunlight at any time.
|
| So far, there has been no discernible fading whatsoever. The print
| looks as good to me today as it did the day I printed it. I fully
| expect it to look good for years to come.
|
| Accelerated tests of the type done by many labs and/or magazines
| would have you believe that aftermarket ink starts fading practically
| before it finishes drying. Nothing could be further from the truth.
| With just a moderate amount of care, aftermarket ink can last a good,
| long, time. With poor care, even OEM ink will fade quickly.
|
| We have hundreds upon hundreds of photos printed with after market ink
| and they ALL look as good as the day they were printed. Based on my
| personal experience, any difference that exists between OEM and after
| market ink used in Canon printers is inconsequential to the average
user.
|
| That is not true.

And you know this how?