Best user friendly printer maker?

TJ wrote:

***** charles wrote:

Hi all,

I need to get a new printer. It needs to be cheap to buy,
cheap to maintain and the company should be friendly
to the people who buy their products. B&W or color is
ok. Is there such a company? It should also be able to
work with Vista when it comes out.

thanks,
charles....


Cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, and a friendly company, eh? OK, what
planet are you from and what have you done with Charles? Is he in a
pod in the basement?

Oh, and if you want user-friendly, don't wait for Vista. You'll be
disappointed. Get a Mac instead. It'll be much cheaper and easier to
maintain, too.


MACs are known for being more expensive to buy and more expensive to
maintain. I can build a PC for about $1200 that would cost more than
$2000 as a Mac. Everything you buy for a Mac costs more. It may be a
little easier to operate for the beginner but thats all. Progrmming
software either costs much more or is non existent. User software also
costs more.


TJ

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:Gd5Dg.316$df.127@trndny06...

"***** charles" wrote in message
t...
Thanks for the reasonable reply. I think I will go with
an Epson Stylus C88 for $80 at my local Staples. I
specifically used the word cheap because of the
connotation since it doesn't have to be heavy-duty.
The other thing I like about the Epson is that it just
works with Linux which I know is something I didn't
mention in the OP. To me cheap means anything
under a $100.

You ask a question, you don't like most of the answers, then you come back
and finally tell the "rest of the story". Next time, think about what you
really want to know and ask with all the information needed to make a
proper recommendation. .

A lot of folks come to the NG with only a vague idea of what they want to
know. It's only after some folks start questioning them that they really
start understanding what they want to really know. I don't mind helping them
problem solve but it's often that the original poster doesn't realize the
effort taken by the responders to the poster's ignorance that got them the
understanding they wanted to know in the first place. Too often the OP just
gets angy at a response and too often a responder gets too short with the
OP. Everyone walks away angry or annoyed. It's unfortunate. People should
try to be a little more civil.

--
Jan Alter

or

measekite wrote:


TJ wrote:

***** charles wrote:

Hi all,

I need to get a new printer. It needs to be cheap to buy,
cheap to maintain and the company should be friendly
to the people who buy their products. B&W or color is
ok. Is there such a company? It should also be able to
work with Vista when it comes out.

thanks,
charles....


Cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, and a friendly company, eh? OK, what
planet are you from and what have you done with Charles? Is he in a
pod in the basement?

Oh, and if you want user-friendly, don't wait for Vista. You'll be
disappointed. Get a Mac instead. It'll be much cheaper and easier to
maintain, too.


MACs are known for being more expensive to buy and more expensive to
maintain. I can build a PC for about $1200 that would cost more than
$2000 as a Mac. Everything you buy for a Mac costs more. It may be a
little easier to operate for the beginner but thats all. Progrmming
software either costs much more or is non existent. User software also
costs more.

Hey, if you want to spend half of your computing time patching security
holes, updating anti-virus software, and dodging spyware, that's up to
you. Those of you who expect Vista to be much of any different in that
regard than the other versions of Windows are living in a dream world.

Actually, had the OP mentioned that he has used Linux, I would have said
to use Linux instead of a Mac. Linux is available for *free* (including
all development/programming software) and is completely immune to
Windows malware. There have been a small number of Linux-specific
viruses created, but they wither away when released "into the wild" and
can't spread the way Windows viruses do. The only problem with Linux is
that it puts so much power in the hands of the user that beginners are
sometimes put off by it.

TJ

measekite wrote:
MACs are known for being more expensive to buy and more expensive to
maintain. I can build a PC for about $1200 that would cost more than
$2000 as a Mac. Everything you buy for a Mac costs more. It may be a
little easier to operate for the beginner but thats all. Progrmming
software either costs much more or is non existent. User software also
costs more.

It would be a very good idea if Measekite doesn't render any advice for
PCs. Macs tend to cost more, this is true. But a $2000 mac is pretty
much a powerhouse, offering dualcore and nvidea based graphics. If you
are buying a system you gotta buy the higher end machine to get a
seperate graphics card rather than the stock i950. It's hard for me to
price 2 dual core intel chips since i'm not seeing them on the dell
site, but you can get dual g5 dual cores in a mac for about $3000.
It's a pretty good value.

As for programing software? This is just another stupid measekite
statement, someone who does Visual Basic.

User software costs more? It depends, a crap load of GNU software has
been ported over to the mac. Some software costs more, some software
is designed for the mac.

A "good" rule of thumb is buy the PC which offers the best benifit for
your main application. For example, if your main application is
photoshop... go mac.... really go mac.

"TJ" wrote in message
...

Actually, had the OP mentioned that he has used Linux, I would have said
to use Linux instead of a Mac. Linux is available for *free* (including
all development/programming software) and is completely immune to Windows
malware. There have been a small number of Linux-specific viruses created,
but they wither away when released "into the wild" and can't spread the
way Windows viruses do. The only problem with Linux is that it puts so
much power in the hands of the user that beginners are sometimes put off
by it.

TJ

i tried linux but found canon don't do any print drivers for it. Getting on
the internet with broadband was problematic too.

"TJ" wrote in message
...
***** charles wrote:
Hi all,

I need to get a new printer. It needs to be cheap to buy,
cheap to maintain and the company should be friendly
to the people who buy their products. B&W or color is
ok. Is there such a company? It should also be able to
work with Vista when it comes out.

thanks,
charles....


Cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, and a friendly company, eh? OK, what
planet are you from and what have you done with Charles? Is he in a pod in
the basement?

Oh, and if you want user-friendly, don't wait for Vista. You'll be
disappointed. Get a Mac instead. It'll be much cheaper and easier to
maintain, too.


What a load of crap!

TJ wrote:

measekite wrote:



TJ wrote:

***** charles wrote:

Hi all,

I need to get a new printer. It needs to be cheap to buy,
cheap to maintain and the company should be friendly
to the people who buy their products. B&W or color is
ok. Is there such a company? It should also be able to
work with Vista when it comes out.

thanks,
charles....


Cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, and a friendly company, eh? OK,
what planet are you from and what have you done with Charles? Is he
in a pod in the basement?

Oh, and if you want user-friendly, don't wait for Vista. You'll be
disappointed. Get a Mac instead. It'll be much cheaper and easier to
maintain, too.



MACs are known for being more expensive to buy and more expensive to
maintain. I can build a PC for about $1200 that would cost more than
$2000 as a Mac. Everything you buy for a Mac costs more. It may be
a little easier to operate for the beginner but thats all.
Progrmming software either costs much more or is non existent. User
software also costs more.

Hey, if you want to spend half of your computing time patching
security holes, updating anti-virus software, and dodging spyware,
that's up to you.

Windows update works automatically. Antivirus is invisible and I never
get spyware. So what is next. It is usually the idiots who have those
problems.

Those of you who expect Vista to be much of any different in that
regard than the other versions of Windows are living in a dream world.

Actually, had the OP mentioned that he has used Linux, I would have
said to use Linux instead of a Mac.

Oh yeah. More maintenance than a Mac and then you never know what will
work and what will not due to the invisibility of drivers.

Linux is available for *free* (including all development/programming
software) and is completely immune to Windows malware. There have been
a small number of Linux-specific viruses created, but they wither away
when released "into the wild" and can't spread the way Windows viruses
do. The only problem with Linux is that it puts so much power in the
hands of the user that beginners are sometimes put off by it.

TJ

measekite said: Snipped per request

[Regarding windows update, spyware, and whatnot]

Anyone who says they have never had a problem with windows is lying.
There are plenty of people who are not morons who experenced issues
with windows. A few years back PCs which shipped with XP home got
infected with viruses right out of the box the first time they
connected to the internet. You can't say these people were stupid
because many were doing the right thing, going online to get the latest
service packs, anti-virus, and firewall software. XP pro and MCE ship
with SP2, and all new machines ship with the right patches in place,
but this is NOT the fault of the user.

Futher, automatic windows update often results in problems. For
example, SP4 for 2k resulted in a system crash, a fault I isolated to
the panasonic print driver. More recently, one of the automatic
updates caused Canon's EZwebprint to break. Again, not the user's
fault.

Antivirus isn't flawless. The popular applications i've noted miss
alot of viruses.

[as for the macs requiring more maintance, and having invisable]

I have NO clue what measekite is rambling about. It's true that Macs
are a form of turn key technology. I'm no mac expert but if talking OS
9 and before you dragged drivers to the system folder. OS 10 is based
on the BSD kernel, and you can load a shell. Unless i'm sadly mistaken
you can use all the standard utilities to see what device drivers are
loaded.

Maintenance ? What maintenance?

OS 8 and before I agree was a bit of a pain. If you bought 3rd party
stuff sometimes it wouldn't work like the apple branded stuff. I.e.
you couldn't plug in a hard drive and format it with the apple
utilities, you had to get a 3rd party one. You coudln't for example
get a toshiba CD rom and auto boot it, you had to get an apple branded
cd rom. I think they abandoned this bull**** in OS9, and probally by
OS X.


[as for measekite]

This is a typical ignorant responce. I don't own a mac worth speaking
about, but I respect the choice to buy one. For your bucks you get a
pretty good machine, something wich is largely standardized. Your
typical PC clone you might end up with an Award bios, phoenix bios, or
ami. You might get NCR/Symbios boot suppport or not. You might get
network boot support or not. Not only is there AMD and intel for
processors but chipsets differ from machine to machine. Vid cards
change, bridgechips change. With a PC clone, you may talk with
microsoft on the subject if you bought the retail box edition, or your
vender if you bought the OEM edition, and get stuck in the blame game
between vender and microsoft, which gets really nutty when the vender
contracted microsoft to do the drivers. At least with apple, you can
buy offical apple **** which is supported by apple, which WILL work.
It's the NICE thing about making the OS and the computer, though this
will change with Tiger.

zakezuke wrote:
measekite said: Snipped per request

[Regarding windows update, spyware, and whatnot]

Anyone who says they have never had a problem with windows is lying.
There are plenty of people who are not morons who experenced issues
with windows. A few years back PCs which shipped with XP home got
infected with viruses right out of the box the first time they
connected to the internet. You can't say these people were stupid
because many were doing the right thing, going online to get the latest
service packs, anti-virus, and firewall software. XP pro and MCE ship
with SP2, and all new machines ship with the right patches in place,
but this is NOT the fault of the user.

Futher, automatic windows update often results in problems. For
example, SP4 for 2k resulted in a system crash, a fault I isolated to
the panasonic print driver. More recently, one of the automatic
updates caused Canon's EZwebprint to break. Again, not the user's
fault.

Antivirus isn't flawless. The popular applications i've noted miss
alot of viruses.

[as for the macs requiring more maintance, and having invisable]

I have NO clue what measekite is rambling about. It's true that Macs
are a form of turn key technology. I'm no mac expert but if talking OS
9 and before you dragged drivers to the system folder. OS 10 is based
on the BSD kernel, and you can load a shell. Unless i'm sadly mistaken
you can use all the standard utilities to see what device drivers are
loaded.

Maintenance ? What maintenance?

OS 8 and before I agree was a bit of a pain. If you bought 3rd party
stuff sometimes it wouldn't work like the apple branded stuff. I.e.
you couldn't plug in a hard drive and format it with the apple
utilities, you had to get a 3rd party one. You coudln't for example
get a toshiba CD rom and auto boot it, you had to get an apple branded
cd rom. I think they abandoned this bull**** in OS9, and probally by
OS X.


[as for measekite]

This is a typical ignorant responce. I don't own a mac worth speaking
about, but I respect the choice to buy one. For your bucks you get a
pretty good machine, something wich is largely standardized. Your
typical PC clone you might end up with an Award bios, phoenix bios, or
ami. You might get NCR/Symbios boot suppport or not. You might get
network boot support or not. Not only is there AMD and intel for
processors but chipsets differ from machine to machine. Vid cards
change, bridgechips change. With a PC clone, you may talk with
microsoft on the subject if you bought the retail box edition, or your
vender if you bought the OEM edition, and get stuck in the blame game
between vender and microsoft, which gets really nutty when the vender
contracted microsoft to do the drivers. At least with apple, you can
buy offical apple **** which is supported by apple, which WILL work.
It's the NICE thing about making the OS and the computer, though this
will change with Tiger.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Well, most of it, anyway. I've
never used a Mac myself, but one of my best online friends, a newspaper
technology columnist, is really big on them. He says OS X is worlds
different (read better) than the previous versions of the mac OS. Also,
while Mac has gone to using Intel processors, the other chips will still
be Mac-specific. Apple is still the one designing the OS and the computers.

BTW, that columnist recently bought a new PC for work use. He set it up
and connected it to Road Runner, "protected" as well as he could against
all forms of Windows malware. Just sitting there, idle but connected,
the PC was infected with spyware within a half hour. Measekite may
"think" he never gets spyware, but how often does he check?

Measekite's comments about higher maintenance and printer drivers were
regarding Linux. I've used Mandrake/Mandriva Linux for over four years
now, and I've never had a printer not work with Linux. I've used HPs and
Epsons. As for maintenance, there is much less than for Windows, but
probably more than for a Mac. I'll take Linux over any version of
Windows any day of the week. At least with Linux the software doesn't
have to phone home for permission for me to use it.

TJ

TJ wrote:
I couldn't have said it better myself. Well, most of it, anyway. I've
never used a Mac myself, but one of my best online friends, a newspaper
technology columnist, is really big on them. He says OS X is worlds
different (read better) than the previous versions of the mac OS. Also,
while Mac has gone to using Intel processors, the other chips will still
be Mac-specific. Apple is still the one designing the OS and the computers.

BTW, that columnist recently bought a new PC for work use. He set it up
and connected it to Road Runner, "protected" as well as he could against
all forms of Windows malware. Just sitting there, idle but connected,
the PC was infected with spyware within a half hour. Measekite may
"think" he never gets spyware, but how often does he check?

Not using internet explorer helps. A combo of Kerio personal firewall
and Avast! anti virus is pretty decent protection. AVG anti virus
works pretty well too. Alot of people use Nortons, in fact some
machines are shipped with it or trial versions, and it's pretty much
crap.

Measekite's comments about higher maintenance and printer drivers were
regarding Linux. I've used Mandrake/Mandriva Linux for over four years
now, and I've never had a printer not work with Linux. I've used HPs and
Epsons. As for maintenance, there is much less than for Windows, but
probably more than for a Mac. I'll take Linux over any version of
Windows any day of the week. At least with Linux the software doesn't
have to phone home for permission for me to use it.

There are certainly printers which won't work under linux, as well as a
ton of scanners. Probally nothing worth speaking about, but I am sure
they exist. Kernel based drivers well... can be a royal pain to say
the least. As for higher maintance? As a user's machine it's pretty
damned stable. It's those damn config files which can be monsters, but
your average distro will have a user friendly application which will
allow you to tweek the right things.

I'm sure there are some phone home applications for linux. Do keep in
mind that not everything for linux is free or open source. I don't
know how decent real audio is for linux but that's certainly one of
those malware based companies.

But I have observed that newbees on linux for the most part have higher
uptimes than that on a windows box, so long as they are just using the
software which came out of the box.