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#81
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Perhaps Newky Brown would do a better job?
Now ya' talkin' - but that's wot Canon uses in their pigmant black! |
#82
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Tony wrote: Sorry Burt I hadn't realised that you were El Presidente of the Refillers Club....I am sure that I voted for you at some time in the past. You got it wrong. He is "Father Burt" of the AfterMarket Club - Refillers Division. Naturally you have my undying support, it is important that those of us (like you and I) Pals forever branded that know absolutely nothing about anything support each other in this our hour of need. You share the same steed I am however beginning to wonder whether a coup is being planned by persons unknown, what do you think? Maybe its WeStink Don't worry I won't let you down. Do not frown Please do not resign. Your loyal subject Tony Which Tony Tony da Tiger or Tony da Webber ps. I love pumpkins, they look great on Halloween... pps. What's the pay like? "Burt" wrote: Lokki - the question of the day is --- what percentage of your customers either ask you if you use OEM inks or demand that the photos they buy are printed with OEM inks? None, you say? How many have told you that they will only buy your prints if you use a canon IP4000 printer with OEM inks? I can't believe you said none. Aren't they aware that at the stroke of midnight pictures printed with non-OEM inks will turn into a pumpkin? I have always demanded that the mechanic who repairs my cars use only Snap-on tools. Very important that no compatable tools from Sears touch my car. Nothing but OEM for me and my pal, Measekite. He has convinced me that I should resign my position as the president of the Refillers Club (he described the nonexistant club and elected me to the exalted position of president). Then he and I can and buy OEM carts from Costco on our twice monthly trips there - for the rest of my life or the life of my printer, whichever ends first. Good deal - you save $3 per cart. I'm glad he convinced me that this is far better than saving $9 on a compatable cart or $11 on a cart refill. It takes an MBA to figure this out. "measekite" wrote in message . com... Maybe you have a competitor that sells prints that are made with an expensive dye sub printer where the prints really last. If you sell your prints for that much then you can afford to give your customers OEM ink. lokki wrote: measekitewrote: I have someone else do that for me. This is intended to show what, exactly? Presuming enough money, this could be your answer to just about everything. However, I think you intended this as a nose-thumbing remark. Given your general approach to communication here, I'll leave you to figure out just how ineffective this kind of statement is... which you will probably never do. Just as a point of reference, I use my Epson 2200 to produce prints that win competitions and sell for several hundred dollars. The price limit is not the print quality, but my skill as a photographer. And I use 3rd party inks. But really, the point is that the printer is a tool. One selects a tool, learns how to use it, and eventually (hopefully) masters it. Knowing how you have to treat it, what its limitations are, and how to work within those limitations are essential with any tool, be it printer, camera, musical instrument, computer, or hammer. And I'm sure you've heard that it's a poor carpenter who blames his hammer... So! We know your views, and you've not contributed anything new in quite some time. While I enjoy watching people such as yourself expose their own limitations, nothing really comes of it except some mild entertainment. At the very least, you are vaguely amusing. Here's a suggestion; make a new thread entitled something like 'Why Epson Sucks - My Informed Bias' and spew forth all your thoughts (sarcastic remark witheld). I further invite everyone to let you have your space and ignore you to give you the illusion of being unchallenged. Does that work for you? |
#83
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#84
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Windex and it's generic compliments are made up of water, glycol,
alcohol, and ammonia (in the ammoniated versions), plus colorant. The ammonia is actually a critical part of the cleaner for both Epson and Canon OEM inks. They require the ammonia to create the correct ionic and pH response. I know of many people who have tried non-ammoniated window cleaner and the results are considerably worse, and sometime non-effective. In the case of the OEM pigmented inks from Epson, the ammonia is critical to the fluid working to unclog the heads. Anyone wishing more complete instructions on clearing clogs with Epson printers, as well as other related printing issues, please email me privately at the same address this is posted from and I will send you a copy of the Epson Cleaning Manual at no cost. You will not be spammed, I have nothing to sell you. I can be more helpful to you if you mention the printer model you are concerned with, the specific print quality issue you are seeing, and if you are using OEM or 3rd party inks. Art Burt wrote: Look for a post near the top of the NG by Arthur Entlich, email him, and ask him for his Epson cleaning manual. He has a simple formula for print head cleaning in his manual that you'd best get from him. It is made up of either the original Windex or the windex that has "ammonia D" - not the dripless one - plus alcohol. Read his manual for proportions. I used it on my Epson Stylus 900 to clean the case, waste ink pad, and print head. Also used it in cartridges to clear out a head clog. Don't try it in yours until you read his info. It works on dye based ink printers, but he has some caviats about the pigment based ink printers. Pharmacies have 70% and 90% isopropyl alcohol and both work. Someone sent me an MSDS on Windex and one of the main ingredients is, guess what --- alcohol! I'm sure that the trace of ammonia also helps with print head cleaning. For those of you not in the US there are comparable window cleaning products. "lokki" wrote in message news:3d1fb$428602fc$455da0d2$24760@allthenewsgroup s.com... Davy, After checking around, I don't think IPA will damage the plastics at all... I was thinking of Acetone, which will definately attack plastics. Sorry for the confusion! Maybe I'll buy some spare parts and soak them in IPA to see if there's any affect on the rubber belts. Nylon and teflon should be very safe, so no worries there. One of my biggest problems right now is on a 9600, so I'm not quite ready to just give it a go. I might test on a 2200, since we are likely replacing at least one of them soon. |
#85
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No dye sub prints last nearly as long as good quality pigmented inkjet
inks, based upon accelerated aging tests. Some 3rd party inks may be superior to some OEM inks. Art measekite wrote: Maybe you have a competitor that sells prints that are made with an expensive dye sub printer where the prints really last. If you sell your prints for that much then you can afford to give your customers OEM ink. lokki wrote: |
#86
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In fairness, as much as an inkjet printer may be a tool, the ink and
paper are the product the print purchaser buys. You may not demand "Snap-On" tools be used, any more than a photographic client would demand Nikon bodies or lens. But the print's longevity is at issue for someone purchasing a work of art. I do get people asking about inks and papers. And I am pleased to see that people buying inkjet (or Giclee) prints are asking, because it's a fair and important question for people who buy art they hope to keep, either as a family heirloom, or an investment. Getting back to your car, although you may not demand 'Snap-On' tolls, you may wish OEM car parts, or at least those made by a reputable 3rd party manufacturer. I only put NGK plugs in my car, because I know the quality in Spark Plugs can make a performance difference. I don't buy a spark plug wrench with the same considerations, although even tools do matter, but not to the end user of the product, usually. Art Burt wrote: Lokki - the question of the day is --- what percentage of your customers either ask you if you use OEM inks or demand that the photos they buy are printed with OEM inks? None, you say? How many have told you that they will only buy your prints if you use a canon IP4000 printer with OEM inks? I can't believe you said none. Aren't they aware that at the stroke of midnight pictures printed with non-OEM inks will turn into a pumpkin? I have always demanded that the mechanic who repairs my cars use only Snap-on tools. Very important that no compatable tools from Sears touch my car. Nothing but OEM for me and my pal, Measekite. He has convinced me that I should resign my position as the president of the Refillers Club (he described the nonexistant club and elected me to the exalted position of president). Then he and I can and buy OEM carts from Costco on our twice monthly trips there - for the rest of my life or the life of my printer, whichever ends first. Good deal - you save $3 per cart. I'm glad he convinced me that this is far better than saving $9 on a compatable cart or $11 on a cart refill. It takes an MBA to figure this out. "measekite" wrote in message m... Maybe you have a competitor that sells prints that are made with an expensive dye sub printer where the prints really last. If you sell your prints for that much then you can afford to give your customers OEM ink. lokki wrote: |
#87
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Art - I agree wholeheartedly with the premise that a person purchasing an
inkjet print as a work of art would be best served to have it printed with pigmented inks as used in the higher end Epson printers rather than Epson or Canon dye based inks. When it comes to Canon OEM vs. the better Canon third party inks, however, my suspicion is that we are dealing with a fairly narrow spread in months or years of fade resistance from one to the other. I forgot the link to the rather crude tests that were done with swabs in comparing various Canon third party inks vs. OEM Canon ink, but there were a few that were extremely close both in color and fade characteristics. The Wilhelm tests were on inks that I've never seen recommended by any individual on a NG or forum, so I don't know how to apply their info to the inks I am seeing recommended. Suffice to say, the dye based inks don't fare as well when subjected to light sources and air quality issues that are known to degrade these images. When it comes to automotive tools - like any other tool that one wishes to use reliably over a long period of time, quality counts. Cheap wrenches tend to get distorted and can dog-ear nuts and bolts and complicate an otherwise simple job. Cheap screwdriver tips likewise. That there are several sources of quality tools is well known and the "brand" or cost of a tool the mechanic uses is of less concern than the quality of work he does with it. My use of non-OEM inks in my Canon printer serves my needs. My photo prints are (from side-by-side comparison) every bit as beautiful as with OEM inks. I can print and widely distribute my photos to friends and family members without regard to cost of materials and they can enjoy them in the "here and now" and discard them later if they wish. The pictures I blow up and display in my home will be replaced by newer photos now and then, and they are not intended to be archival quality. It is just annoying to see someone issue a blanket condemnation of all third party vendors and their products. If others wish to consider non-OEM inks they should be able to read objective pros and cons instead of the scare tactics and opinionated rants. I never intended to become the spokesman for ink vendors - I just hate to see legitimate business people and their products villified. "Arthur Entlich" wrote in message news:bx0ie.1371659$6l.287031@pd7tw2no... In fairness, as much as an inkjet printer may be a tool, the ink and paper are the product the print purchaser buys. You may not demand "Snap-On" tools be used, any more than a photographic client would demand Nikon bodies or lens. But the print's longevity is at issue for someone purchasing a work of art. I do get people asking about inks and papers. And I am pleased to see that people buying inkjet (or Giclee) prints are asking, because it's a fair and important question for people who buy art they hope to keep, either as a family heirloom, or an investment. Getting back to your car, although you may not demand 'Snap-On' tolls, you may wish OEM car parts, or at least those made by a reputable 3rd party manufacturer. I only put NGK plugs in my car, because I know the quality in Spark Plugs can make a performance difference. I don't buy a spark plug wrench with the same considerations, although even tools do matter, but not to the end user of the product, usually. Art Burt wrote: Lokki - the question of the day is --- what percentage of your customers either ask you if you use OEM inks or demand that the photos they buy are printed with OEM inks? None, you say? How many have told you that they will only buy your prints if you use a canon IP4000 printer with OEM inks? I can't believe you said none. Aren't they aware that at the stroke of midnight pictures printed with non-OEM inks will turn into a pumpkin? I have always demanded that the mechanic who repairs my cars use only Snap-on tools. Very important that no compatable tools from Sears touch my car. Nothing but OEM for me and my pal, Measekite. He has convinced me that I should resign my position as the president of the Refillers Club (he described the nonexistant club and elected me to the exalted position of president). Then he and I can and buy OEM carts from Costco on our twice monthly trips there - for the rest of my life or the life of my printer, whichever ends first. Good deal - you save $3 per cart. I'm glad he convinced me that this is far better than saving $9 on a compatable cart or $11 on a cart refill. It takes an MBA to figure this out. "measekite" wrote in message m... Maybe you have a competitor that sells prints that are made with an expensive dye sub printer where the prints really last. If you sell your prints for that much then you can afford to give your customers OEM ink. lokki wrote: |
#88
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I don't think we disagree. I was just trying to better pigeonhole the
different markets. For someone purchasing an inkjet print as a collectable art form, quality and permanence of the paper and ink are paramount. I own a lot of tools, and do most of my own mechanical and carpentry work. If I buy a poor tool, I pay the consequence at times. It may be less efficient, or less functional, it may break, it may ruin the part I am working on, it may require replacement more often. I typically buy tools of any type based upon how often I foresee needing it. My general toolkits are made up of higher quality products, because I use those tools regularly. However, unless absolute precession is required, tools that I know I may need only once a year or less, will probably be of lower quality to justify cost versus use. However, if I was working on someone else's cars all day, I would buy better tolls to insure against damaging their property and well as wishing to have functional tools. When people produce prints for sale, they should be using good quality inks and appears to assure the client gets the value they expect. If you and you family are the consumers of your inkjet output, then the decision if obviously yours to make. Art Burt wrote: Art - I agree wholeheartedly with the premise that a person purchasing an inkjet print as a work of art would be best served to have it printed with pigmented inks as used in the higher end Epson printers rather than Epson or Canon dye based inks. When it comes to Canon OEM vs. the better Canon third party inks, however, my suspicion is that we are dealing with a fairly narrow spread in months or years of fade resistance from one to the other. I forgot the link to the rather crude tests that were done with swabs in comparing various Canon third party inks vs. OEM Canon ink, but there were a few that were extremely close both in color and fade characteristics. The Wilhelm tests were on inks that I've never seen recommended by any individual on a NG or forum, so I don't know how to apply their info to the inks I am seeing recommended. Suffice to say, the dye based inks don't fare as well when subjected to light sources and air quality issues that are known to degrade these images. When it comes to automotive tools - like any other tool that one wishes to use reliably over a long period of time, quality counts. Cheap wrenches tend to get distorted and can dog-ear nuts and bolts and complicate an otherwise simple job. Cheap screwdriver tips likewise. That there are several sources of quality tools is well known and the "brand" or cost of a tool the mechanic uses is of less concern than the quality of work he does with it. My use of non-OEM inks in my Canon printer serves my needs. My photo prints are (from side-by-side comparison) every bit as beautiful as with OEM inks. I can print and widely distribute my photos to friends and family members without regard to cost of materials and they can enjoy them in the "here and now" and discard them later if they wish. The pictures I blow up and display in my home will be replaced by newer photos now and then, and they are not intended to be archival quality. It is just annoying to see someone issue a blanket condemnation of all third party vendors and their products. If others wish to consider non-OEM inks they should be able to read objective pros and cons instead of the scare tactics and opinionated rants. I never intended to become the spokesman for ink vendors - I just hate to see legitimate business people and their products villified. "Arthur Entlich" wrote in message news:bx0ie.1371659$6l.287031@pd7tw2no... In fairness, as much as an inkjet printer may be a tool, the ink and paper are the product the print purchaser buys. You may not demand "Snap-On" tools be used, any more than a photographic client would demand Nikon bodies or lens. But the print's longevity is at issue for someone purchasing a work of art. I do get people asking about inks and papers. And I am pleased to see that people buying inkjet (or Giclee) prints are asking, because it's a fair and important question for people who buy art they hope to keep, either as a family heirloom, or an investment. Getting back to your car, although you may not demand 'Snap-On' tolls, you may wish OEM car parts, or at least those made by a reputable 3rd party manufacturer. I only put NGK plugs in my car, because I know the quality in Spark Plugs can make a performance difference. I don't buy a spark plug wrench with the same considerations, although even tools do matter, but not to the end user of the product, usually. Art Burt wrote: Lokki - the question of the day is --- what percentage of your customers either ask you if you use OEM inks or demand that the photos they buy are printed with OEM inks? None, you say? How many have told you that they will only buy your prints if you use a canon IP4000 printer with OEM inks? I can't believe you said none. Aren't they aware that at the stroke of midnight pictures printed with non-OEM inks will turn into a pumpkin? I have always demanded that the mechanic who repairs my cars use only Snap-on tools. Very important that no compatable tools from Sears touch my car. Nothing but OEM for me and my pal, Measekite. He has convinced me that I should resign my position as the president of the Refillers Club (he described the nonexistant club and elected me to the exalted position of president). Then he and I can and buy OEM carts from Costco on our twice monthly trips there - for the rest of my life or the life of my printer, whichever ends first. Good deal - you save $3 per cart. I'm glad he convinced me that this is far better than saving $9 on a compatable cart or $11 on a cart refill. It takes an MBA to figure this out. "measekite" wrote in message .com... Maybe you have a competitor that sells prints that are made with an expensive dye sub printer where the prints really last. If you sell your prints for that much then you can afford to give your customers OEM ink. lokki wrote: |
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