Voltage of Speaker Out in 8-bit SoundBlaster card

How much is it?

I also found a pair of old HE Nicole D 100-3008-03 speakers, used to be
my speakers for the 8-bit SoundBlaster card.

What voltage is needed to drive it?

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Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

How much is it?

I also found a pair of old HE Nicole D 100-3008-03 speakers, used to be
my speakers for the 8-bit SoundBlaster card.

What voltage is needed to drive it?


There is a spec for the 1989 CT1320 here.

http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowA....aspx?sid=5800

It apparently drives a speaker, and has no Line Out ?

"Output Power (Max.): 4 Watts at 4 Ohms PMPO (Amp out)"

Does that mean monophonic output, and one signal driving 4 ohms ?
Or is the output stereo, 2W per channel, and there is a
stereo jack output ?

And PMPO, might be one of those dishonest Peak Music Power Output specs.
So we really don't have a reliable power rating to work with at all.
Sheer fabrication.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_power

"Peak power is also referred to as max power or
PMPO (Peak Music Power Output).[10]

It is often five or six times greater than the
continuous ("RMS") rating."

The DC power spec for the CT1320. Most power is from +12V rail.
Yet, there is a lot of hungry jelly bean logic on the
card, and I don't see that reflected properly in these
DC power numbers. I thought one of the chips on this board
was a processor, and likely not a low power one.

"Supply Voltage Requirement (Loading): +5, +12, -12 Volt
Current Consumption (Typical): 50, 500, 30 mA respectively"

Try a 4 ohm or an 8 ohm speaker with the thing,
and see what you get. The info I've got available
here, I can't really predict all that much about
the thing. If I could make out the part number
and actually find a datasheet for the amplifier
chip, I might make more sense from it. The amp
is the chip sitting on that separate analog
ground plane.

I can't even be sure the thing is stereo. Is
that amp chip stereo ? Or is it mono ? You will be
able to tell, by turning over the PCB, and looking
at how many "solder bumps" are used to wire up
the output port connectors.

Right now, that card has all the look of a monophonic
design.

Life is full of puzzles.

Paul

How many volts should I use to power these speakers?
Both 5V and 12V are OK?

On 13/3/15 7:54 PM, Paul wrote:
Try a 4 ohm or an 8 ohm speaker with the thing,
and see what you get. The info I've got available
here, I can't really predict all that much about
the thing. If I could make out the part number

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"Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote in message
...

How much is it?

I also found a pair of old HE Nicole D 100-3008-03 speakers, used to be my
speakers for the 8-bit SoundBlaster card.

What voltage is needed to drive it?

I'm not finding any specs for those speakers- Google comes up blank. Are
they powered speakers? Is there a jack on the side/back with a AC or DC
designation? If they are not powered speakers, then they require nothing
other than connecting them to your SoundBlaster speaker out. The (+) side
would go to the center pole of one output and the (-) would go to the ground
side. Does the SB card have RCA jacks for connecting the speakers? That's
where the (+) and (-) would connect.
--
SC Tom

SC Tom wrote:


"Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote in message
...

How much is it?

I also found a pair of old HE Nicole D 100-3008-03 speakers, used to
be my speakers for the 8-bit SoundBlaster card.

What voltage is needed to drive it?

I'm not finding any specs for those speakers- Google comes up blank. Are
they powered speakers? Is there a jack on the side/back with a AC or DC
designation? If they are not powered speakers, then they require nothing
other than connecting them to your SoundBlaster speaker out. The (+)
side would go to the center pole of one output and the (-) would go to
the ground side. Does the SB card have RCA jacks for connecting the
speakers? That's where the (+) and (-) would connect.

I couldn't find anything on the speakers either.

It sounds like Man-wai sees an adapter input, as
well as an analog signal input. In which case they're
amplified speakers of some sort.

To get good power levels in an audio amplifier circuit,
usually takes more DC voltage than you see in logic
circuits.

In the example of the Sound Blaster card, the audio
amp chip is likely running between +12V and GND, is
capacitively coupled on ourput, and you get a
few watts from it. I would expect the amplifier
inside the Nicole speaker to be something like
that too. Unless the Nicole speaker is three feet high,
has a 100W rating, in which case the DC operating
voltage could be 40-50V or so. My component stereo
(the one that died), used high unregulated voltages
like that, on the hybrid amplifier module.

*******

The speakers I'd connect to an amplified Sound Blaster
(with its own amplifier chip onboard), would be
speakers like this. I like oval speakers, having
had some "voice coil scraping" problems with
circular speakers. Oval speakers never let me down.
This is a 4 ohm speaker, so should do a decent job of
getting whatever imaginary power level the Sound Blaster
amp can produce.

The only thing I'd avoid, is connecting a 2 ohm speaker
to the 4 ohm SoundBlaster Amp Out. I'd err on the
higher side, rather than the lower side. A 4 ohm or
an 8 ohm would likely work, but as the impedance
goes up, the power transfer goes down (less sound).

http://docs-europe.electrocomponents...6b80116cf1.pdf

On real speakers, you use an enclosure with a tuned
port (opening on the back), to make the most of
the low power levels involved.

*******

So we're dealing with a couple generations of electronics,
and a transition from which side does the amplifying. The first
diagram, is the old way of doing it, from 1989.

Sound Card ------------- Passive Speaker, two solder terminals
(integrated low or terminals that accept bare wires.
power amp chip) Bookshelf tuned port speakers being an example.

Sound Card ----------------- Amplified speakers with their own power source
(LineOut only Power output only limited by price
1V RMS, can only Computer speakers expect ~1V RMS input
drive 32 ohm headphones Adjustable gain, to suit other signal sources

It doesn't work as well, mixing the Sound Card in the upper one,
with the speakers in the lower one. More distortion results from
using two audio amplifiers in a row. You would want to be careful
not to set the volume on the computer too high, if mixing the top
sound card, with the bottom amplified speaker concept.

HTH,
Paul

On Fri, 13 Mar 2015 18:18:21 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang"
wrote:


How much is it?

I also found a pair of old HE Nicole D 100-3008-03 speakers, used to be
my speakers for the 8-bit SoundBlaster card.

What voltage is needed to drive it?

The portion *below is pretty simple.
(Unfortunately, the rest is however not unless you've a electronic
physicist's grasp of mathematics and respective fundamental principles
applicable to their foci.)

Your Line Levels may be suited "the load" - I know with soundcards
both with various headphones and software/changeable headphone output
impedance settings - results can vary from pleasantly to nothing short
of earhole pain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_level
(The "strength" of these various signals does not necessarily refer to
the output voltage of the source device; it also depends on its output
impedance and output power capability.)

-
*The driving *force* (F), that sets the *diaphragm* in motion, is
proportional to the current (I) flowing through the voice coil
according to the well known formula F = B l I where the product B l is
called force factor (B = magnetic flux density; l = wire length in the
magnetic field). B is the flux density that exists when the current is
zero.

This force, then, determines the acceleration (A) of the diaphragm,
which in the main operation area (the mass-controlled region) is got
from the Newtonian law F = mA. The radiated pressure, in turn, follows
the instantaneous acceleration ...

The most remarkable thing here regarding loudspeakers is that the
voltage between the ends of the wire does not appear anywhere in these
equations. That is, the speaker driver in the end obeys only current,
not caring what the voltage across the terminals happens to be.

http://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4423155/1/
Loudspeaker-operation--The-superiority-of-current-drive-over-voltage-drive

On 14/3/15 2:38 AM, SC Tom wrote:
I'm not finding any specs for those speakers- Google comes up blank. Are
they powered speakers? Is there a jack on the side/back with a AC or DC
designation? If they are not powered speakers, then they require nothing
other than connecting them to your SoundBlaster speaker out. The (+)
side would go to the center pole of one output and the (-) would go to
the ground side. Does the SB card have RCA jacks for connecting the
speakers? That's where the (+) and (-) would connect.

I would like to use them as speakers for an iPod. But it needs extra
power as no sound could be heard by connecting them to the 3.5mm socket
of the iPod.

That's why I asked how many volts would be needed to drive them.

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On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 20:37:02 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang"
wrote:

I would like to use them as speakers for an iPod. But it needs extra
power as no sound could be heard by connecting them to the 3.5mm socket
of the iPod.

That's why I asked how many volts would be needed to drive them.

When soundcards generally gave up their voltages (for standardized
convenience and not longer driving passive speakers) -- getting
"something for nothing," then, at least nothing not involving another
ugly wallwart voltage supply for internal speaker opamps -- becomes
problematic.

Enter "USB speakers" - nifty neato Singapore devices (variously
branded for not much money);- the USB device then intelligently picks
them up for routing to the OS chain, as well drawing USB voltages for
powering the speaker driver.

Still, there's [a few] more wires involved, their included speakers
are utterly horrid (compared to passive substitutions even if a 4w
soundcard line out). But, for a pinch in getting critical audio
information - they're perfect;- say a quick telephone spkr/mic
computer application if other speakers/monitors aren't readily
available.

Does an iPod talk appropriate USB?
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT1584
(If so, perhaps easiest to find them on an Amazon search "USB powered
speakers" pattern - where Ebay tends be widely, logically too diverse
at times.)

I've always felt MB's faulted on a design deficiency for not
incorporating at least cheap-o piezo speaker caps, minimalist for
audibly conveying at least discernable vocal level reproduction. Are
two such caps (stereo) incorported into suitable front case "button
holes" really asking that much?

(I've also seen USB versions for a 3.5" case plate conversion,
although they never popularly caught on and are the rare item. ...Easy
things for various project approaches, nevertheless, dedicated OpAmp
PCBs included on a likes of Singapore/DealExtreme.)

Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
On 14/3/15 2:38 AM, SC Tom wrote:
I'm not finding any specs for those speakers- Google comes up blank. Are
they powered speakers? Is there a jack on the side/back with a AC or DC
designation? If they are not powered speakers, then they require nothing
other than connecting them to your SoundBlaster speaker out. The (+)
side would go to the center pole of one output and the (-) would go to
the ground side. Does the SB card have RCA jacks for connecting the
speakers? That's where the (+) and (-) would connect.

I would like to use them as speakers for an iPod. But it needs extra
power as no sound could be heard by connecting them to the 3.5mm socket
of the iPod.

That's why I asked how many volts would be needed to drive them.


Can you do any better on a model number ?

Post a picture up on your favorite photo sharing
site. If you need a photo site that doesn't require
user registration, you can use tinypic.com (limited
size photos, try 1024x768).

I don't need a picture of the entire speaker, because
image file based searches just aren't good enough to
be executed that way.

Things I would want to see are the

1) Input jacks, for audio input and power input.
Sometimes, the plastic of the chassis has a "legend"
molded into the plastic with the actual voltage value
printed. Normally you can't see that, because no
contrasting color is used. You have to know it's there,
to be able to observe it. I've missed this detail on a
number of occasions.

2) Take a closeup of the model number plate on the back,
so we can see if there is anything more that can be
extracted from it.

*******

I've given this lecture before.

There are three kinds of power sources.

1) AC (just a transformer powers the device)
(Or it is powered directly from the mains)

2) Unregulated DC (transformer plus rectifier plus filter cap)
(Voltage level is "load sensitive")

3) Regulated DC (transformer plus rectifier plus filter cap + *regulator*)
(Voltage level is perfectly constant)

The legend in the plastic will say "9VDC", but will not
distinguish between cases (2) and (3).

Even Paul got caught by this.

I bought a label-maker, a device that prints labels on
colored plastic. The plastic strips have adhesive backing.
I label the controls on instruments with it.

I buy the thing, and the input says "7VDC". The matching
transformer at the store is like $50. So Paul, being clever
(and cheap), decides to go to Radio Shack and buy a 7V supply.
I could get one for $30 or less, and get it immediately.

When it is plugged in, the label maker display powers up,
but every time you click the print button, nothing happens.
So the power source just isn't right (and I've wasted $30).
But it is precisely 7VDC (I checked). What could be wrong ?

The power source it really wanted, was "7VDC Unregulated".
When the device is idling, the voltage level rises to around
11 VDC or so. This is sufficient to initiate operation, and
the voltage level drops while the label is being printed.

So the label molded into the plastic, isn't perfect,
because it doesn't tell us (2) from (3). But at least
it gets us in the right ballpark, and no smoke comes
out of the thing.

*******

When a unit has no markings, open the unit and check the
WVDC rating of the capacitors. This requires knowledge
of just which capacitors to look at. You would be looking
at a capacitor in the power supply section. The WVDC places
an upper bound on the allowed voltage. (It may say 35V,
when the device runs at 9V, so this knowledge hardly helps.
But it does rule out the usage of an infinite voltage.)

Also, check the silk screen legend (white letters on the
printed circuit board). It doesn't happen too often, but
sometimes you get lucky, and the value is printed there.

To get my computer speakers apart, was particularly
difficult. I needed to repair my computer speakers,
which were defective when purchased. I had to take
a saw, and cut a slit in the top of the speaker, along
the glued seam. Then, using my collection of screw drivers
and pry bars, I ripped it apart with brute strength.
There was one cold solder joint inside. The unit did
not use screws, and used contact cement to glue the
casing. I've had the speakers now for 15 years, and
they're probably the best computer item I ever purchased
(in terms of getting your money's worth). Only $20.
The saw mark blemish on the top of the speaker
with the amplifier board inside it, looks ugly, but
the speakers work fine.

(The back view of my brand of computer speaker.
This would be the left speaker. This is the
kind of picture I want to see. ACS21W.)

http://sishardware.com/imgs/a/a/z/z/...s a_3_lgw.jpg

Paul

On 14/3/15 6:15 PM, Flasherly wrote:
*The driving *force* (F), that sets the *diaphragm* in motion, is
proportional to the current (I) flowing through the voice coil
according to the well known formula F = B l I where the product B l is
called force factor (B = magnetic flux density; l = wire length in the
magnetic field). B is the flux density that exists when the current is
zero.

This force, then, determines the acceleration (A) of the diaphragm,
which in the main operation area (the mass-controlled region) is got
from the Newtonian law F = mA. The radiated pressure, in turn, follows
the instantaneous acceleration ...

Until I find the right voltage to test the speakers, I am not sure
whether the speakers could still work. It's NOT been used for over 20
years....

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