Switch to DVD backup media from CD?

Hi

For about six years, I've been backing up computer data onto CD media.
Initially, I wasn't too careful with my backups, making no after-checks
and buying cheap media, although I've learnt from my mistakes in modern
times. As I'm not keen to lose the data I'm backing, I only buy
high-quality media these days and perform fairly through after-checks to
ensure that the data is burned correctly. However, my data is not
mission-critical or anything like that, so I have no reason to buy
massively expensive equipment to ensure it survives at all costs. In all
honestly, I've had very good reliability to date, even on the oldest CD's
and I'm not even sure that the problems I suffered where related to the
medium at all.

In recent times, the data I have to backup up has grown in size and I'm
considering a switch to DVD media. However, I'm not sure if DVD has yet
reached the same level of reliability as the more proven CD medium has and
the standards war has meant that I've been reluctant to change to DVD so
far. I would say that current and future readability, the ease of backup
operations and medium-time data retention are the most important factors
for me. In the latter case, I wouldn't worry about the data lasting longer
than a decade, I'm sure that in five years, I'll be looking to migrate all
the data onto a newer backup media. If I do decide to move to DVD backups,
I will transfer all my current CD backups onto DVD. I will then keep the
CD backups, but merely write all new backups to DVD alone.

Would any of you say that the DVD standard is now as mature as CD and as
safe a bet? Should I hang on to CD's a bit longer, or is it better to
migrate to DVD at this stage?

Thanks to anybody who responds to this thread. I'll be glad to hear any
critical views that people may hold.

Regards,

Pan

Pan wrote in message
news
For about six years, I've been backing up computer data onto CD media.
Initially, I wasn't too careful with my backups, making no after-checks
and buying cheap media, although I've learnt from my mistakes in modern
times. As I'm not keen to lose the data I'm backing, I only buy
high-quality media these days and perform fairly through after-checks to
ensure that the data is burned correctly. However, my data is not
mission-critical or anything like that, so I have no reason to buy
massively expensive equipment to ensure it survives at all costs. In all
honestly, I've had very good reliability to date, even on the oldest CD's
and I'm not even sure that the problems I suffered where related to the
medium at all.

In recent times, the data I have to backup up has grown in size and I'm
considering a switch to DVD media. However, I'm not sure if DVD has yet
reached the same level of reliability as the more proven CD medium has and
the standards war has meant that I've been reluctant to change to DVD so
far. I would say that current and future readability, the ease of backup
operations and medium-time data retention are the most important factors
for me. In the latter case, I wouldn't worry about the data lasting longer
than a decade, I'm sure that in five years, I'll be looking to migrate all
the data onto a newer backup media. If I do decide to move to DVD backups,
I will transfer all my current CD backups onto DVD. I will then keep the
CD backups, but merely write all new backups to DVD alone.

Would any of you say that the DVD standard is now as mature as CD

Nope.

and as safe a bet?

Nope.

Should I hang on to CD's a bit longer, or is
it better to migrate to DVD at this stage?

I've migrated to DVD and just continue with the level of protection I have
always
had with CDs when they were at the level of maturity that DVDs are now.

That basically means not using the cheapest media, and not using just
one brand and format of media and ensuring multiple copys at all times.

I find that what I care about losing now fits fine on a single DVD
and I keep that stuff on the hard drive at all times, and so the
frequent new copy of everything I care about to a single DVD
ensures that I have multiple copys of what matters at all times.

I currently use DVD+RW format most of the time with an
ocassional use of DVD-R media so that if it turns out that
one of the formats doesnt last as long as I would like, I will
become aware of that while I still have at least one other
format that hasnt yet started to show any sign of degradation.

I dont however generate a significant volume of stuff
that I dont want to lose, particularly pictures and video.

If I did, I would handle those the same way, multiple copys
on multiple types of media and keep checking to ensure
that none of the stuff on DVDs is degrading over time.

I have also deliberately chosen a DVD burner that has
a reputation for not being fussy about the media and
for being able to write DVDs that can be read reliably
in any DVD player I care to read them in. A Pioneer 109.

Thanks to anybody who responds to this thread.
I'll be glad to hear any critical views that people may hold.

Previously Pan wrote:
Hi

For about six years, I've been backing up computer data onto CD media.
Initially, I wasn't too careful with my backups, making no after-checks
and buying cheap media, although I've learnt from my mistakes in modern
times. As I'm not keen to lose the data I'm backing, I only buy
high-quality media these days and perform fairly through after-checks to
ensure that the data is burned correctly. However, my data is not
mission-critical or anything like that, so I have no reason to buy
massively expensive equipment to ensure it survives at all costs. In all
honestly, I've had very good reliability to date, even on the oldest CD's
and I'm not even sure that the problems I suffered where related to the
medium at all.

In recent times, the data I have to backup up has grown in size and I'm
considering a switch to DVD media. However, I'm not sure if DVD has yet
reached the same level of reliability as the more proven CD medium has and
the standards war has meant that I've been reluctant to change to DVD so
far. I would say that current and future readability, the ease of backup
operations and medium-time data retention are the most important factors
for me. In the latter case, I wouldn't worry about the data lasting longer
than a decade, I'm sure that in five years, I'll be looking to migrate all
the data onto a newer backup media. If I do decide to move to DVD backups,
I will transfer all my current CD backups onto DVD. I will then keep the
CD backups, but merely write all new backups to DVD alone.

Would any of you say that the DVD standard is now as mature as CD and as
safe a bet? Should I hang on to CD's a bit longer, or is it better to
migrate to DVD at this stage?

From the regular tests of writable DVDs and writers in the german
computer magazine c't, I would say that no, writable DVD (with the
exception of DVD-RAM) is not there yet. There are still frequent
tests where some quality medium and some DVD writers do not
work well together and produce unreliable or failed burns.

Arno

"Arno Wagner" wrote in message
...
Previously Pan wrote:
Hi

For about six years, I've been backing up computer data onto CD media.
Initially, I wasn't too careful with my backups, making no after-checks
and buying cheap media, although I've learnt from my mistakes in modern
times. As I'm not keen to lose the data I'm backing, I only buy
high-quality media these days and perform fairly through after-checks to
ensure that the data is burned correctly. However, my data is not
mission-critical or anything like that, so I have no reason to buy
massively expensive equipment to ensure it survives at all costs. In all
honestly, I've had very good reliability to date, even on the oldest CD's
and I'm not even sure that the problems I suffered where related to the
medium at all.

In recent times, the data I have to backup up has grown in size and I'm
considering a switch to DVD media. However, I'm not sure if DVD has yet
reached the same level of reliability as the more proven CD medium has and
the standards war has meant that I've been reluctant to change to DVD so
far. I would say that current and future readability, the ease of backup
operations and medium-time data retention are the most important factors
for me. In the latter case, I wouldn't worry about the data lasting longer
than a decade, I'm sure that in five years, I'll be looking to migrate all
the data onto a newer backup media. If I do decide to move to DVD backups,
I will transfer all my current CD backups onto DVD. I will then keep the
CD backups, but merely write all new backups to DVD alone.

Would any of you say that the DVD standard is now as mature as CD and as
safe a bet? Should I hang on to CD's a bit longer, or is it better to
migrate to DVD at this stage?

From the regular tests of writable DVDs and writers in the german
computer magazine c't, I would say that no, writable DVD (with the
exception of DVD-RAM) is not there yet. There are still frequent
tests where some quality medium and some DVD writers do not
work well together and produce unreliable or failed burns.

Makes more sense to choose a drive where that doesnt
happen than it does to say stick with CDs for that reason.

On Sun, 29 May 2005 15:32:51 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:


Pan wrote in message
news
snip
In recent times, the data I have to backup up has grown in size and I'm
considering a switch to DVD media. However, I'm not sure if DVD has yet
reached the same level of reliability as the more proven CD medium has and
the standards war has meant that I've been reluctant to change to DVD so
far. I would say that current and future readability, the ease of backup
operations and medium-time data retention are the most important factors
for me. In the latter case, I wouldn't worry about the data lasting longer
than a decade, I'm sure that in five years, I'll be looking to migrate all
the data onto a newer backup media. If I do decide to move to DVD backups,
I will transfer all my current CD backups onto DVD. I will then keep the
CD backups, but merely write all new backups to DVD alone.

Would any of you say that the DVD standard is now as mature as CD

Nope.

and as safe a bet?

Nope.

Should I hang on to CD's a bit longer, or is
it better to migrate to DVD at this stage?

I've migrated to DVD and just continue with the level of protection I have
always
had with CDs when they were at the level of maturity that DVDs are now.

That basically means not using the cheapest media, and not using just
one brand and format of media and ensuring multiple copys at all times.

I find that what I care about losing now fits fine on a single DVD
and I keep that stuff on the hard drive at all times, and so the
frequent new copy of everything I care about to a single DVD
ensures that I have multiple copys of what matters at all times.

I currently use DVD+RW format most of the time with an
ocassional use of DVD-R media so that if it turns out that
one of the formats doesnt last as long as I would like, I will
become aware of that while I still have at least one other
format that hasnt yet started to show any sign of degradation.

I dont however generate a significant volume of stuff
that I dont want to lose, particularly pictures and video.

If I did, I would handle those the same way, multiple copys
on multiple types of media and keep checking to ensure
that none of the stuff on DVDs is degrading over time.

I have also deliberately chosen a DVD burner that has
a reputation for not being fussy about the media and
for being able to write DVDs that can be read reliably
in any DVD player I care to read them in. A Pioneer 109.

Thanks to anybody who responds to this thread.
I'll be glad to hear any critical views that people may hold.


I would agree with most of what Rod Speed has to say here, with the
biggest exception being for the choice of DVD burner. Of the drives
currently available here in the United States, I would rate the
Pioneer 109 as being 5th on the list. My list, in order of
preference,

1) Benq 1620
2) Nec 3520
3) LG 4163
4) Pioneer 108
5) Pioneer 109

I have owned all of the drives listed above (and others), and done
many tests with different media.

YMMV.

"Henry Nettles" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 May 2005 15:32:51 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:


Pan wrote in message
news
snip
In recent times, the data I have to backup up has grown in size and I'm
considering a switch to DVD media. However, I'm not sure if DVD has yet
reached the same level of reliability as the more proven CD medium has and
the standards war has meant that I've been reluctant to change to DVD so
far. I would say that current and future readability, the ease of backup
operations and medium-time data retention are the most important factors
for me. In the latter case, I wouldn't worry about the data lasting longer
than a decade, I'm sure that in five years, I'll be looking to migrate all
the data onto a newer backup media. If I do decide to move to DVD backups,
I will transfer all my current CD backups onto DVD. I will then keep the
CD backups, but merely write all new backups to DVD alone.

Would any of you say that the DVD standard is now as mature as CD

Nope.

and as safe a bet?

Nope.

Should I hang on to CD's a bit longer, or is
it better to migrate to DVD at this stage?

I've migrated to DVD and just continue with the level of protection I have
always
had with CDs when they were at the level of maturity that DVDs are now.

That basically means not using the cheapest media, and not using just
one brand and format of media and ensuring multiple copys at all times.

I find that what I care about losing now fits fine on a single DVD
and I keep that stuff on the hard drive at all times, and so the
frequent new copy of everything I care about to a single DVD
ensures that I have multiple copys of what matters at all times.

I currently use DVD+RW format most of the time with an
ocassional use of DVD-R media so that if it turns out that
one of the formats doesnt last as long as I would like, I will
become aware of that while I still have at least one other
format that hasnt yet started to show any sign of degradation.

I dont however generate a significant volume of stuff
that I dont want to lose, particularly pictures and video.

If I did, I would handle those the same way, multiple copys
on multiple types of media and keep checking to ensure
that none of the stuff on DVDs is degrading over time.

I have also deliberately chosen a DVD burner that has
a reputation for not being fussy about the media and
for being able to write DVDs that can be read reliably
in any DVD player I care to read them in. A Pioneer 109.

Thanks to anybody who responds to this thread.
I'll be glad to hear any critical views that people may hold.


I would agree with most of what Rod Speed has to say here, with the
biggest exception being for the choice of DVD burner. Of the drives
currently available here in the United States, I would rate the
Pioneer 109 as being 5th on the list. My list, in order of
preference,

1) Benq 1620
2) Nec 3520
3) LG 4163
4) Pioneer 108
5) Pioneer 109

I have owned all of the drives listed above (and
others), and done many tests with different media.

YMMV.

And so do the reviews that test the drives properly, with your list.

On Sun, 29 May 2005 14:36:46 +0000, Arno Wagner wrote:


Would any of you say that the DVD standard is now as mature as CD and
as safe a bet? Should I hang on to CD's a bit longer, or is it better
to migrate to DVD at this stage?

From the regular tests of writable DVDs and writers in the german
computer magazine c't, I would say that no, writable DVD (with the
exception of DVD-RAM) is not there yet. There are still frequent tests
where some quality medium and some DVD writers do not work well together
and produce unreliable or failed burns.



I do scan all written CD's with Nero CD Speed using both the Scandisc and
CD quality tests so I hopefully should be able to pick up initially poorly
written burns before I consign the DVD to storage. That's assuming that
Nero CD-DVD does the same job as CD Speed of course.....

My main worry in migrating to DVD's is the potential loss of data over a
period of time, or finding that my collection of DVD backups is no
longer compatible in another DVD drive. If newer standards are not
compatible with the DVD's, that would be a big problem too, although I
tend to think that is unlikely to occur.

Regards,

Pan

On Sun, 29 May 2005 15:32:51 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:

Should I hang on to CD's a bit longer, or is
it better to migrate to DVD at this stage?

I've migrated to DVD and just continue with the level of protection I have
always
had with CDs when they were at the level of maturity that DVDs are now.

That basically means not using the cheapest media, and not using just
one brand and format of media and ensuring multiple copys at all times.

I do intend to make at least two copies of every burn if I do decide to go
with DVD. What brands do you alternate between? I use TDK for CD's,
although I know they don't have a perfect name in CD creation. I do stick
with the ones known to come from a proven factory though.


I find that what I care about losing now fits fine on a single DVD
and I keep that stuff on the hard drive at all times, and so the
frequent new copy of everything I care about to a single DVD
ensures that I have multiple copys of what matters at all times.

I've heard removable hard disks are a good alternative to using DVD's full
stop. Apparently they are very reliable and probably likely to outlast
DVD's completely. I don't really like the thought of using magnetic
storage to keep all my data though, and the single-point of failure is
obviously a concern. I suppose DVD's are still the best choice for the
next backup stage.


I currently use DVD+RW format most of the time with an
ocassional use of DVD-R media so that if it turns out that
one of the formats doesnt last as long as I would like, I will
become aware of that while I still have at least one other
format that hasnt yet started to show any sign of degradation.

Good idea. I'll go with DVD-R and DVD+R to ensure I have some security
against degradation. However, I find it unlikely that either +R or -R will
become unsupported, most likely they'll both be supported under a new
unified standard much like the old modem wars between K56Flex and X2.
These two were unified under V90 of course.


I dont however generate a significant volume of stuff
that I dont want to lose, particularly pictures and video.

If I did, I would handle those the same way, multiple copys
on multiple types of media and keep checking to ensure
that none of the stuff on DVDs is degrading over time.

I have also deliberately chosen a DVD burner that has
a reputation for not being fussy about the media and
for being able to write DVDs that can be read reliably
in any DVD player I care to read them in. A Pioneer 109.

Thanks for the information. Are there any other DVD writers that can be
recommended?

I suppose it would be more than a bit stupid to look at dual-layer DVD's?

Regards,

Pan

On Tue, 31 May 2005 09:11:21 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:



I would agree with most of what Rod Speed has to say here, with the
biggest exception being for the choice of DVD burner. Of the drives
currently available here in the United States, I would rate the
Pioneer 109 as being 5th on the list. My list, in order of
preference,

1) Benq 1620
2) Nec 3520
3) LG 4163
4) Pioneer 108
5) Pioneer 109

I have owned all of the drives listed above (and
others), and done many tests with different media.

YMMV.

And so do the reviews that test the drives properly, with your list.

Suffice to say, I'll look at a set of reviews myself before making any
definite decisions. But your list will probably come in useful, thanks.

Regards,

Pan

Pan wrote in message
news
Rod Speed wrote

Should I hang on to CD's a bit longer, or is
it better to migrate to DVD at this stage?

I've migrated to DVD and just continue with the level
of protection I have always had with CDs when they
were at the level of maturity that DVDs are now.

That basically means not using the cheapest media, and not using just
one brand and format of media and ensuring multiple copys at all times.

I do intend to make at least two copies of every burn if I do
decide to go with DVD. What brands do you alternate between?

I dont bother doing it by brand anymore.
Just avoid the supercheap media now.

I did do it by brand with CDs at one time, but found that I
didnt lose any over time as long as I avoided the absolute
bottom of the market so gave up bothering about the brand.

Then again, I deliberately chose a liteon burner
that has a reputation for reliable burns.

Just had the first dud for years and years, was getting
low when a mate of mine was around, said that I was
getting low and had him hand me a spindle of 50 from
the lowest price operation in town to save me going
out to get some. One of those was bad and the inner
layer of the area burnt is noticeably poor, rather a
wavy pattern in it, but only with some blanks.

I use TDK for CD's, although I know they don't have
a perfect name in CD creation. I do stick with the
ones known to come from a proven factory though.

I find that what I care about losing now fits fine on a single DVD
and I keep that stuff on the hard drive at all times, and so the
frequent new copy of everything I care about to a single DVD
ensures that I have multiple copys of what matters at all times.

I've heard removable hard disks are a
good alternative to using DVD's full stop.

Yes, as long as you arent prone to dropping things.

That is close to what I do separately to using CDs and
DVDs too, basically write the critical stuff that I cant
afford to lose to other drives on the local network of PCs.

Apparently they are very reliable

Dunno, you'll find virtually all of the hard drive manufacturers
except samsung will only warranty externals for 1 year.

and probably likely to outlast DVD's completely.

Maybe, but I dont need that sort of long term
reliability, essentially because I keep backing
up everything that I care about at a decent rate.

But I dont bother with photos or videos.

I don't really like the thought of using magnetic storage to keep all
my data though, and the single-point of failure is obviously a concern.

Yes, I'd never have just one. I dont even do that at the software level.

I suppose DVD's are still the best choice for the next backup stage.

Yeah, thats my feeling, hard drives and DVD combined.

I currently use DVD+RW format most of the time with an
ocassional use of DVD-R media so that if it turns out that
one of the formats doesnt last as long as I would like, I will
become aware of that while I still have at least one other
format that hasnt yet started to show any sign of degradation.

Good idea. I'll go with DVD-R and DVD+R to ensure I have some
security against degradation. However, I find it unlikely that either +R
or -R will become unsupported, most likely they'll both be supported
under a new unified standard much like the old modem wars between
K56Flex and X2. These two were unified under V90 of course.

I handle that differently, once a particular format is
passing its useby date, I have always got the data
that matters on more modern media. So I dont have
anything on floppy now and dont usually bother to even
install a floppy drive in a system I assemble anymore.

I dont however generate a significant volume of stuff
that I dont want to lose, particularly pictures and video.

If I did, I would handle those the same way, multiple copys
on multiple types of media and keep checking to ensure
that none of the stuff on DVDs is degrading over time.

I have also deliberately chosen a DVD burner that has
a reputation for not being fussy about the media and
for being able to write DVDs that can be read reliably
in any DVD player I care to read them in. A Pioneer 109.

Thanks for the information. Are there any
other DVD writers that can be recommended?

That list that Henry posted isnt bad.

I suppose it would be more than a bit
stupid to look at dual-layer DVD's?

I dont use them just because of the price, and because
I dont need the higher capacity except for more
convenience with copying commercially made DVDs.

But since I never bother to watch anything more
than once, life is something I dont care about
as long as the life is better than months.