ASROCK versus ASUS

sooky grumper wrote:

Yes, anyone can click 'yes' and 'OK' and 'I Accept' and fill in a few
numbers. You're at the level of knowledge where if you push yourself a
little further, you'll break through and understand how much there is
to know, and how little any one person will be able to know in terms
of computers (both hardware and software).

Argumentum ad hominum.

A sure sign of someone losing the case.
--
~misfit~

Piotr Makley wrote:
"~misfit~" wrote:

Wise people in the know who
weren't overly image-conscious bought Pulsar and saved
approximately 40% and got the exact same ultra-reliable
watch. They're made in the same factory, they just go to a
different 'finishing line' where they are fitted into either
a Seiko or a Pulsar case.


But what about quality control? Is that different?


No, not at all. I happened to be in a jewellers shop when a
Seiko/Pulsar rep was there, just as they bought out the Pulsar
brand. He was explaining it to the shop owner. The internals
come off the same production-line, go through the same QT, and
are then diverted to either the Seiko or Pulsar 'finishing'
line (for fitting into cases), depending on demand.

Maybe the diverting is done based on the better versus worse
performing units? In other words they are all to spec but the very
best go one way and the poorer one go another way?

I don't think so (Mine is going strong, accurate to within 15 seconds a
year, after 13 years and three battery changes). I think it's more like the
diverting is done according to demand.
--
~misfit~

In article , "~misfit~"
says...
sooky grumper wrote:

Yes, anyone can click 'yes' and 'OK' and 'I Accept' and fill in a few
numbers. You're at the level of knowledge where if you push yourself a
little further, you'll break through and understand how much there is
to know, and how little any one person will be able to know in terms
of computers (both hardware and software).

Argumentum ad hominum.

A sure sign of someone losing the case.

It would only be "ad hominem" if the facts he was stating about
"ElJerid" were irrelevant to the argument - yet it is evident from what
"ElJerid" has previously posted that his knowledge and experience are
indeed lacking, and his judgement is therefore questionable.

Rob Morley wrote:
In article , "~misfit~"
says...
sooky grumper wrote:

Yes, anyone can click 'yes' and 'OK' and 'I Accept' and fill in a
few numbers. You're at the level of knowledge where if you push
yourself a little further, you'll break through and understand how
much there is to know, and how little any one person will be able
to know in terms of computers (both hardware and software).

Argumentum ad hominum.

A sure sign of someone losing the case.

It would only be "ad hominem"

Thanks for the correction, my mistake. Plus I don't have a spell-checker
installed.

if the facts he was stating about
"ElJerid" were irrelevant to the argument - yet it is evident from
what "ElJerid" has previously posted that his knowledge and
experience are indeed lacking, and his judgement is therefore
questionable.

He was still talking dowm to him and attempting to ridicule him. If "his
knowledge and experience are indeed lacking" then surely we should be
educating him, not treating him like an idiot?
--
~misfit~

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
t...
In article , "~misfit~"
says...
sooky grumper wrote:

Yes, anyone can click 'yes' and 'OK' and 'I Accept' and fill in a few
numbers. You're at the level of knowledge where if you push yourself a
little further, you'll break through and understand how much there is
to know, and how little any one person will be able to know in terms
of computers (both hardware and software).

Argumentum ad hominum.

A sure sign of someone losing the case.

It would only be "ad hominem" if the facts he was stating about
"ElJerid" were irrelevant to the argument - yet it is evident from what
"ElJerid" has previously posted that his knowledge and experience are
indeed lacking, and his judgement is therefore questionable.

Maybe my experience is lacking, and maybe my judgement is questionable. I
appreciate the "philosophical" responses of some previous posts. I must say
however that I tried out all the solutions that were presented by all the
"experts" here and that none gave any results.
I can agree with many arguments like about faulty OS, power leds on 4-in-1
readers or bad software to read cpu temps. But why do I only encounter those
problems with only one motherboard (with most recent bios)? Why do many
other users encounter exactly the same problems?
Why does a new motherboard crashes after a new clean install, while
replacement of just the motherboard results in a perfectly working system?
What should an "expert" have done (that I did not) to solve the problem ???

browse grumpers posts....diplomacy is not his strong point.

"~misfit~" wrote in message
...
Rob Morley wrote:
In article , "~misfit~"
says...
sooky grumper wrote:

Yes, anyone can click 'yes' and 'OK' and 'I Accept' and fill in
a
few numbers. You're at the level of knowledge where if you push
yourself a little further, you'll break through and understand
how
much there is to know, and how little any one person will be
able
to know in terms of computers (both hardware and software).

Argumentum ad hominum.

A sure sign of someone losing the case.

It would only be "ad hominem"

Thanks for the correction, my mistake. Plus I don't have a
spell-checker
installed.

if the facts he was stating about
"ElJerid" were irrelevant to the argument - yet it is evident from
what "ElJerid" has previously posted that his knowledge and
experience are indeed lacking, and his judgement is therefore
questionable.

He was still talking dowm to him and attempting to ridicule him. If
"his
knowledge and experience are indeed lacking" then surely we should
be
educating him, not treating him like an idiot?
--
~misfit~

~misfit~ wrote:

He was still talking dowm to him and attempting to ridicule him. If "his
knowledge and experience are indeed lacking" then surely we should be
educating him, not treating him like an idiot?

I did. I let him know about the errors in his knowledge, and what the
correct 'answers' were to points he raised. It seems that you're looking
for an argument. I can't help it if you have such low self esteem that
you read things into posts like 'talking down' and 'ridicule'. Those
things were not there.

--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

"ElJerid" wrote in message
...

Maybe my experience is lacking, and maybe my judgement is questionable. I
appreciate the "philosophical" responses of some previous posts. I must
say
however that I tried out all the solutions that were presented by all the
"experts" here and that none gave any results.
I can agree with many arguments like about faulty OS, power leds on 4-in-1
readers or bad software to read cpu temps. But why do I only encounter
those
problems with only one motherboard (with most recent bios)? Why do many
other users encounter exactly the same problems?
Why does a new motherboard crashes after a new clean install, while
replacement of just the motherboard results in a perfectly working system?
What should an "expert" have done (that I did not) to solve the problem
???

Maybe, just maybe you had an iffy board - **** sometimes happens, accept it.

The point is though that you must not pass judgement on ASRock boards based
on your sample size of just one board.
I have built in excess of 70 systems using boards by ASRock and as I said in
a previous post, all have behaved perfectly.

In relation to your experience of XP not installing and Win2K crashing after
install, I would comment as follows:
If XP doesn't install there is something wrong and this needs to be fixed.
Installing another operating system won't fix the problem - as you found out
later when Win2K kept crashing.

In fact XP is showing it's superiority in that it didn't install on an iffy
platform where as Win2K did.
Experience would have told you to fix the problem that XP was complaining
about and not install Win2K in an attempt to fix the problem.

My guess is that your ASRock board was not compatible with the memory you
used whilst your replacement board was.
Did you try a memtest programme from a floppy disc?
Do you use cheap n' cheerful memory or decent stuff like Crucial?

When you come across a problem and eventually solve it you learn something
and your experience increases.
What you seemed to learn and want to pass on is "Don't buy ASRock boards
because I couldn't get one to work" - hardly appropriate is it?

On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:17:18 GMT, "ElJerid"
wrote:


That's what I thought first, so I returned the Win XP CD to the dealer where
it was tested and appeared to install without problems. So I took it back
home and tried an install on 2 othersPC's without problems.

Seldom is it the cd... the most common problem when even the OS
installation won't finish, is incorrect BIOS settings or memory errors.

It is a very, very good idea to always test the memory for several hours
with http://www.memtest86.com (memtest86)... Not only when you encounter
problems, but before every installing the OS to begin with. Some systems
only have a few errors, an install might finish but then corrupt files
will confound troubleshooting until the entire system is reinstalled after
memory is corrected.



- when shutting down the computer, power is still delivered to on-board
USB
connectors, resulting in USB devices (6 in 1 card readers, for ex)with
leds
always on;

That's normal. Same with PS/2 ports. ATX always has some power going to
the ports.

Right, but not at the point that the leds on a card reader remain on when
power is down.

Many if not most modern boards have a hard-wired 5VSB circuit that can be
active when the machine is "off", keeping any number of USB/PS2 devices
powered. Typically that's controlled with one or more jumpers, which
should be detailed in the manual if their function isn't silkscreened onto
the board itself.



- the board crashes randomly (up to 3 - 4 times a day);

The board doesn't crash, windows does.

Also just after a clean install, and without any application installed or
running ???

The board could be bad or windows' files corrupt, or overheating, bad
power supply, etc, etc. Simply because a memory module appears to run
fine in one system, it's no guarantee that it'll run fine in another.
Some chipsets are picker, board designs not as good, or bios defaults (or
user changes to bios settings) can make a large difference. Sometimes
there's even major bios bugs in the lower-cost boards, making it very
important to update the bios for at least the first few bios releases.


- the temp and voltage reports of the board are wrong: cpu temp is
mostly at
72°C (although feeling cold), -12 V is reported -0.17 V, and so on.

Where did you get those readings?

As well from Sandra as from Aida 32

Do no rely on such 3rd party programs for temp and voltage... not on that
board or any board. Use the manufacturer's provided hardware monitor
program or the bios health monitor (or however it's worded) screen.

It's irrelevant what unused voltages like -12V, -5V, read. There is
nothing better about a motherboard that puts a load on an unused voltage
so it shows up near spec on a voltage report.



Don't believe. I think it's an incompatibility between OS and the P4VT8, or
the P4VT8 is defective !

I doubt it's an OS incompatiblity. Perhaps it is defective, but it's
quite a jump to conclude that without quite a bit of testing various
things first. Temp, voltage, fans, memory, etc.

Maybe, just maybe you had an iffy board - **** sometimes happens, accept
it.
The point is though that you must not pass judgement on ASRock boards
based
on your sample size of just one board.

I agree. But when you encounter such a series of problems with a product you
use for the first time, you start searching for similar cases on the net.
And I found a lot ! All without working solutions. Or you try the support
site, where I got no valid answer. That's why I made my conclusion that
possibly should apply only to the P4VT8.

I have built in excess of 70 systems using boards by ASRock and as I said
in
a previous post, all have behaved perfectly.

Which model did you use? Did you try the P4VT8 ???

In relation to your experience of XP not installing and Win2K crashing
after
install, I would comment as follows:
If XP doesn't install there is something wrong and this needs to be fixed.
Installing another operating system won't fix the problem - as you found
out
later when Win2K kept crashing.

I didn't expect to fix the mobo problem. My first thought was a defective XP
CD, and therefor I tried another CD, being W2K. And this installed fine,
although I encountered crashes later.

In fact XP is showing it's superiority in that it didn't install on an
iffy
platform where as Win2K did.
Experience would have told you to fix the problem that XP was complaining
about and not install Win2K in an attempt to fix the problem.

Again I agree. Problem is that XP did not give any error message. It just
frooze in the early install process, at the moment it should give the
message "hit F6 to install other ATA drivers". I tried this several times,
with all possible HD config combinations of formating and partitioning. I
also downloaded the set of XP boot diskettes, but got exactly the same
result.

My guess is that your ASRock board was not compatible with the memory you
used whilst your replacement board was.
Did you try a memtest programme from a floppy disc?
Do you use cheap n' cheerful memory or decent stuff like Crucial?

Memory was Corsair XMS PC3200. No problems at POST. I checked for supported
memory on the Asrock site, but the P4VT8 does not appear in mem support, nor
in VGA card support, but only in the CPU list.

When you come across a problem and eventually solve it you learn something
and your experience increases.
What you seemed to learn and want to pass on is "Don't buy ASRock boards
because I couldn't get one to work" - hardly appropriate is it?

You're right. I should not generalize and should have said "don't buy the
P4VT8".
By the way, in the meantime I returned the P4VT8 to the dealer who first
refused to exchange the board. He accepted however to try to install XP in
his office and... had the same problem ! A technician there told me it was
not the first time they had problems with Via based Asrock motherboards for
P4 CPU's.
Finally they agreed to change the board for a P4i65GV, based on the Intel
865GV chipset. Delivery is planned in 2 weeks. I hope this will work.Wait
and see...