Power Surge

When the system came to me I was "told" it was a power surge that
destroyed the components. I really don't know if this is the case and
given all that was said in this thread I would likely discount this as
the cause. I visually inspected all the damaged components but I
didn't see any signs except for the sound card with the popped core.
I was looking for bulging/leaking caps, discolored/chipped/missing
parts but could not find anything. I ran some burn-in tests on the
remaining parts and nothing came up as bad.

I do remember being told by the owner that one person doing work on
the unit flipped a switch on the PSU...however she doesn't remember it
having the on/off switch that the current Enermax does...so I can only
assume the switch would be the voltage selector. Now...I have never
operated a unit when it was not set for North American voltage (110 or
whatever its supposed to be). Another possibility I can think of is
that someone did work on the board when it still had power...full or
standby...but even then I don't think that much damage would occur.
I've oops'd like that a couple of times and the board simply shut
down...although that was with an Enermax so who knows what an el'
cheapo unit would do. I just find it really strange which components
died and those that survived. Another thing I just realized is that
nothing else in her house was damaged...not even the monitor which was
on the same outlet/power bar...so it most likely was the PSU and/or
human error. Anyways...the owner purchased new parts and has her
system back (minus her data) with a better power supply.

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
Here is the reason I asked about supply. Was there a power
surge or was a power surge just assumed? Original power
supply was cheap - often missing essential overvoltage
protector circuits. If this inferior power supply suffered
regulator failure, then power supply outputs excessive and
destructive voltages. In a standard power supply such as the
Enermax, overvoltage protector circuits would have shorted
out that overvoltage. Other components inside the system
would not have been damaged because overvoltage was shorted
out by protector circuit - that is often missing in cheap
power supplies.

Maybe there was no power surge. Damage was simply created
by a human who did not know to get a supply with essential
functions such as that overvoltage protector. IOW supply was
purchased only on price; not using specifications. Therefore
the supply failed and took out that long list of computer
components.

Many of the damaged components are typical of a power supply
sold with a good price and no specifications. Only component
not damaged that I would have expected damage to was RAM.
Power supply would destroy disk drives but not CPU.

IOW that above entire discussion may have been irrelevant
because system was not damaged by a surge. System was damaged
by human who did not know how to buy a power supply. Such
defective supplies are widespread; even sold in CompUSA.

David LeBrun wrote:

Not sure...but I'm told it was a cheap one...and was replaced with
an
Enermax 300W
I don't know if the PSU was replaced before the rest of the damage
occured or if it all happened at the same time.

I have been following along with the discussion but most of what
you
and Vanguard have been exchanging is beyond me.

Dave.

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
Looking back on your original list of damaged components, I
notice PSU was damaged. What type of PSU was this? What /
where are specifications for this PSU?

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 15:38:46 GMT, "David LeBrun"
wrote:

When the system came to me I was "told" it was a power surge that
destroyed the components. I really don't know if this is the case and
given all that was said in this thread I would likely discount this as
the cause. I visually inspected all the damaged components but I
didn't see any signs except for the sound card with the popped core.
I was looking for bulging/leaking caps, discolored/chipped/missing
parts but could not find anything. I ran some burn-in tests on the
remaining parts and nothing came up as bad.

I do remember being told by the owner that one person doing work on
the unit flipped a switch on the PSU...however she doesn't remember it
having the on/off switch that the current Enermax does...so I can only
assume the switch would be the voltage selector. Now...I have never
operated a unit when it was not set for North American voltage (110 or
whatever its supposed to be). Another possibility I can think of is
that someone did work on the board when it still had power...full or
standby...but even then I don't think that much damage would occur.
I've oops'd like that a couple of times and the board simply shut
down...although that was with an Enermax so who knows what an el'
cheapo unit would do. I just find it really strange which components
died and those that survived. Another thing I just realized is that
nothing else in her house was damaged...not even the monitor which was
on the same outlet/power bar...so it most likely was the PSU and/or
human error. Anyways...the owner purchased new parts and has her
system back (minus her data) with a better power supply.


It probably was a power surge, the core on a sound card doesn't
generally do that from any kind of power supply failure or incorrect
voltage switch, etc, etc.


Dave

It is a sign of the times; how propaganda manipulates
mindsets. Today, any failure must have been a surge.
Computer mysteriously turns off; must be a surge. However
surges occur typically once every eight years. Propaganda
forgot to mention that part.

That list of failed components is consistent with power
supply failure that did not include the required overvoltage
protection circuits. Circuits that were even standard 30
years ago are commonly missing on power supplies sold only on
price. However specifications for an Enermax power supply
states overvoltage protection - with numbers:
http://www.enermax.com.tw/product.htm
Fundamental difference between the power supply purchased on
price verses power supply bought on value.

Many discount power supplies cannot be bothered to cite
specifications because they are not selling to those who want
essential power supply functions. List of damaged components
is consistent with a power supply that did not have
overvoltage protection - was sold only on one spec - price.

David LeBrun wrote:
When the system came to me I was "told" it was a power surge that
destroyed the components. I really don't know if this is the case and
given all that was said in this thread I would likely discount this as
the cause. I visually inspected all the damaged components but I
didn't see any signs except for the sound card with the popped core.
I was looking for bulging/leaking caps, discolored/chipped/missing
parts but could not find anything. I ran some burn-in tests on the
remaining parts and nothing came up as bad.

I do remember being told by the owner that one person doing work on
the unit flipped a switch on the PSU...however she doesn't remember it
having the on/off switch that the current Enermax does...so I can only
assume the switch would be the voltage selector. Now...I have never
operated a unit when it was not set for North American voltage (110 or
whatever its supposed to be). Another possibility I can think of is
that someone did work on the board when it still had power...full or
standby...but even then I don't think that much damage would occur.
I've oops'd like that a couple of times and the board simply shut
down...although that was with an Enermax so who knows what an el'
cheapo unit would do. I just find it really strange which components
died and those that survived. Another thing I just realized is that
nothing else in her house was damaged...not even the monitor which was
on the same outlet/power bar...so it most likely was the PSU and/or
human error. Anyways...the owner purchased new parts and has her
system back (minus her data) with a better power supply.

I finally got some response to e-mails that I sent to my cable broadband
provider and my telephone company. Neither one provides surge
protection (at the service entry or anywhere else). UFFDA! So much for
the telco providing surge protection on their service, or having any
protection on the cable coax. I'm still reading through all the links
you provided (had to do some house restoration since then and been
pretty busy). Besides whole-home surge protection, now I'll have to
figure out how to insert surge arrestors into the telephone and cable
lines. I checked with my electric company who said that they used to
provide surge arrestors as part of some service plan but do not anymore.
I've been hunting around to see if I can find a surge arrestor anywhere
and haven't found one yet. About the only place I haven't checked so
far is to open up the circuit breaker box to see if it is installed
inside the box instead of inserted into a breaker slot.

1) Your cable provider does not provide a surge protector
because they must provide surge protection. That coaxial
cable is required, even by NEC standards, to be earthed before
it enters the building. That earthing is required for human
safety reasons. That earthing also provides surge
protection. Ask them if their installation conforms to these
requirements:
Outer conductive shield is grounded at the building premises as
close to the point of cable entrance or attachment as practicable.
The grounding conductor shall not be smaller than 14 AWG. It shall
have a current-carrying capacity approximately equal to that of the
outer conductor of the coaxial cable.
The grounding conductor shall be as short as prcticable. In one
and two family dwellings, the grounding conductor shall be as short
as practicable, not to exceed 6.0 meters (20 feet) in length.

2) Your phone company is required by NEC standards to have
installed the protector. If they said none is installed, then
either the responder did not understand what is actually
provided, or responder did not understand the question, or
telco is violating National Electrical Code requirements.
Code is quoted:
From the National Electrical Code Article 800.30A:
A listed primary protector shall be provided on each circuit
run partly or entirely in aerial wire or aerial cable not
confined within the block containing the building served so
as to be exposed to accidental contact with electric light or
power conductor operating at over 300 volts to ground.

Article 800.30B Location.
The primary protector shall be located in, on, or immediately
adjacent to the structure or building served and as close as
practical to the point of entrance.

3) Electric companies would install a 'whole house'
protector behind meter. It would look like an extender ring
behind meter. It would look something like this:
http://www.leaintl.com/pdf/MsaCutsheet.pdf
They would charge something like $5 per month for that
protector. In one year, you a minimally sized 'whole house'
protector could have been paid for almost 1.5 times over.

Electric company would never put anything inside a breaker
box. They would install a 'whole house' protector only where
they have jurisdiction. Inside your breaker box is beyond
their jurisdiction. They can refuse to provide service based
upon what is inside that box. But they do not access or
install equipment inside that box.

Minimally acceptable protectors for residential AC electric
are sold in Home Depot as Intermatic IG1240RC or EG240RC or
Siemens QSA2020.

Some examples of third party phone line protectors:
http://www.one.co.uk/catalogue/teleb...otect/22PX.HTM
http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse11.htm
http://www.citelprotection.com/engli..._B380_B480.PDF
http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse08.htm
http://www.oneac.com/pdf/917116c.pdf


Vanguard wrote:
I finally got some response to e-mails that I sent to my cable
broadband provider and my telephone company. Neither one provides
surge protection (at the service entry or anywhere else). UFFDA!
So much for the telco providing surge protection on their service,
or having any protection on the cable coax. I'm still reading
through all the links you provided (had to do some house restoration
since then and been pretty busy). Besides whole-home surge
protection, now I'll have to figure out how to insert surge arrestors
into the telephone and cable lines. I checked with my electric
company who said that they used to provide surge arrestors as part
of some service plan but do not anymore. I've been hunting around
to see if I can find a surge arrestor anywhere and haven't found one
yet. About the only place I haven't checked so far is to open up the
circuit breaker box to see if it is installed inside the box instead
of inserted into a breaker slot.

Ok...about quality units...
One of my systems is using an Enermax 300W, another is Antec 350W.
Yet another is the AOpen branded unit which came in a clone case...at
least on its second or possibly third year of use. Yet another case
is most likely one of the bargain units and I'll probably look to
replace it by swapping in my current Enermax and getting a newer
model. I really like my Enermax unit...well built with good quality
long cables and has been in use well over a year. This Antec unit
seems to be very good also (but its fairly new so can't compare it
much yet). Its voltages are closer to spec than the Enermax but we're
talking
+/-0.2v or so. I like the idea of the dedicated voltage rails on the
newer Antec units...claims that the only load required is on +12v
which would be excellent for bench-testing equipment. Its a toss-up
between these two brands for me.

I've seen other brands advertised: KingWin, Zalman, Thermaltake to
name a few. Also see lots and lots of "no-name" units...when I check
in at the local store I see some 400W units for $30...compared to
similar Enermax for $110 and Antec for $120. What's your brand of
choice?

When I think about what would be in a $30 unit...
- you've got the shell...that can't be avoided...maybe make it thinner
metal but it can't be plastic because of heat...can't afford a lawsuit
when racking in only 30 bucks per

- mobo/drive power lines...can't be avoided either...would be useless
otherwise...could possibly get away with using thinner guage wiring to
cut cost...defintly no gold plated connectors

- single fan w/ sleve bearing...these things are a dime a
dozen...definitely not 2 fans since it would add to cost...not that
there's a spot to put the fan since there aren't any ventalation
holes/slats in these units

- the "guts"...after spending money on all the rest...can't spend too
much here...however since there is no packaging or manual or spec
sheet the savings "could" be applied here

Another thing is that you never get a warranty other than the few days
from the store if it doesn't work. I've trashed enough of these
things I could run a drive power line from my basement to the second
floor.

Dave

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
It is a sign of the times; how propaganda manipulates
mindsets. Today, any failure must have been a surge.
Computer mysteriously turns off; must be a surge. However
surges occur typically once every eight years. Propaganda
forgot to mention that part.

That list of failed components is consistent with power
supply failure that did not include the required overvoltage
protection circuits. Circuits that were even standard 30
years ago are commonly missing on power supplies sold only on
price. However specifications for an Enermax power supply
states overvoltage protection - with numbers:
http://www.enermax.com.tw/product.htm
Fundamental difference between the power supply purchased on
price verses power supply bought on value.

Many discount power supplies cannot be bothered to cite
specifications because they are not selling to those who want
essential power supply functions. List of damaged components
is consistent with a power supply that did not have
overvoltage protection - was sold only on one spec - price.

David LeBrun wrote:
When the system came to me I was "told" it was a power surge that
destroyed the components. I really don't know if this is the case
and
given all that was said in this thread I would likely discount
this as
the cause. I visually inspected all the damaged components but I
didn't see any signs except for the sound card with the popped
core.
I was looking for bulging/leaking caps, discolored/chipped/missing
parts but could not find anything. I ran some burn-in tests on
the
remaining parts and nothing came up as bad.

I do remember being told by the owner that one person doing work
on
the unit flipped a switch on the PSU...however she doesn't
remember it
having the on/off switch that the current Enermax does...so I can
only
assume the switch would be the voltage selector. Now...I have
never
operated a unit when it was not set for North American voltage
(110 or
whatever its supposed to be). Another possibility I can think of
is
that someone did work on the board when it still had power...full
or
standby...but even then I don't think that much damage would
occur.
I've oops'd like that a couple of times and the board simply shut
down...although that was with an Enermax so who knows what an el'
cheapo unit would do. I just find it really strange which
components
died and those that survived. Another thing I just realized is
that
nothing else in her house was damaged...not even the monitor which
was
on the same outlet/power bar...so it most likely was the PSU
and/or
human error. Anyways...the owner purchased new parts and has her
system back (minus her data) with a better power supply.

Its about what is not in the $30 power supply. For example,
does the computer interfere with radio reception? Another
function that was not installed would be a line filter. Up
front and first provided: no long list of specifications, then
it is probably missing essential functions to increase profit;
customer be damned.

Specs have been seen for Enermax and Antec supplies. Where
are the specifications for that AOpen or, say, a Deer supply?
Specs are provided even though less than 1% of consumers
really know what specs mean. However without those specs, then
the 1% cannot identify the failures of that manufacturers
products to the other 99%.

Tom's Hardware demonstrated another problem with many
discount power supplies:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/0...021/index.html

But then outputs of any power supply can be shorted, power
applied, and nothing destructive happens. No fuse should even
blow. That is even what all minimally acceptable supplies
must do. There is little to nothing visible that determines a
quality supply. Secret ingredients are already in the batter;
not visible to a human eye. Above are just some examples of
how to really identify a minimally acceptable supply. But
first on that list - no specs, then no quality.

David LeBrun wrote:
Ok...about quality units...
One of my systems is using an Enermax 300W, another is Antec 350W.
Yet another is the AOpen branded unit which came in a clone case...at
least on its second or possibly third year of use. Yet another case
is most likely one of the bargain units and I'll probably look to
replace it by swapping in my current Enermax and getting a newer
model. I really like my Enermax unit...well built with good quality
long cables and has been in use well over a year. This Antec unit
seems to be very good also (but its fairly new so can't compare it
much yet). Its voltages are closer to spec than the Enermax but we're
talking
+/-0.2v or so. I like the idea of the dedicated voltage rails on the
newer Antec units...claims that the only load required is on +12v
which would be excellent for bench-testing equipment. Its a toss-up
between these two brands for me.

I've seen other brands advertised: KingWin, Zalman, Thermaltake to
name a few. Also see lots and lots of "no-name" units...when I check
in at the local store I see some 400W units for $30...compared to
similar Enermax for $110 and Antec for $120. What's your brand of
choice?

When I think about what would be in a $30 unit...
- you've got the shell...that can't be avoided...maybe make it thinner
metal but it can't be plastic because of heat...can't afford a lawsuit
when racking in only 30 bucks per

- mobo/drive power lines...can't be avoided either...would be useless
otherwise...could possibly get away with using thinner guage wiring to
cut cost...defintly no gold plated connectors

- single fan w/ sleve bearing...these things are a dime a
dozen...definitely not 2 fans since it would add to cost...not that
there's a spot to put the fan since there aren't any ventalation
holes/slats in these units

- the "guts"...after spending money on all the rest...can't spend too
much here...however since there is no packaging or manual or spec
sheet the savings "could" be applied here

Another thing is that you never get a warranty other than the few days
from the store if it doesn't work. I've trashed enough of these
things I could run a drive power line from my basement to the second
floor.

Dave

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
It is a sign of the times; how propaganda manipulates
mindsets. Today, any failure must have been a surge.
Computer mysteriously turns off; must be a surge. However
surges occur typically once every eight years. Propaganda
forgot to mention that part.

That list of failed components is consistent with power
supply failure that did not include the required overvoltage
protection circuits. Circuits that were even standard 30
years ago are commonly missing on power supplies sold only on
price. However specifications for an Enermax power supply
states overvoltage protection - with numbers:
http://www.enermax.com.tw/product.htm
Fundamental difference between the power supply purchased on
price verses power supply bought on value.

Many discount power supplies cannot be bothered to cite
specifications because they are not selling to those who want
essential power supply functions. List of damaged components
is consistent with a power supply that did not have
overvoltage protection - was sold only on one spec - price.

David LeBrun wrote:
When the system came to me I was "told" it was a power surge that
destroyed the components. I really don't know if this is the case
and
given all that was said in this thread I would likely discount
this as
the cause. I visually inspected all the damaged components but I
didn't see any signs except for the sound card with the popped
core.
I was looking for bulging/leaking caps, discolored/chipped/missing
parts but could not find anything. I ran some burn-in tests on
the
remaining parts and nothing came up as bad.

I do remember being told by the owner that one person doing work
on
the unit flipped a switch on the PSU...however she doesn't
remember it
having the on/off switch that the current Enermax does...so I can
only
assume the switch would be the voltage selector. Now...I have
never
operated a unit when it was not set for North American voltage
(110 or
whatever its supposed to be). Another possibility I can think of
is
that someone did work on the board when it still had power...full
or
standby...but even then I don't think that much damage would
occur.
I've oops'd like that a couple of times and the board simply shut
down...although that was with an Enermax so who knows what an el'
cheapo unit would do. I just find it really strange which
components
died and those that survived. Another thing I just realized is
that
nothing else in her house was damaged...not even the monitor which
was
on the same outlet/power bar...so it most likely was the PSU
and/or
human error. Anyways...the owner purchased new parts and has her
system back (minus her data) with a better power supply.

I just looked around at the stuff in the basement.

There is a thick heavy guage wire running from the main AC switch to
the water main about 6' away. This is the house ground...correct? I
tried to see what was behind the meter looking for a "extender ring"
but since the meter is round I don't know whats part of the actual
meter and whats not.

The telephone box (where all the separate jacks are connected) has 3
wires...2 are for the signal and the third I assume is the ground (old
wiring which does not use all 4 signal wires). The "plate" that its
all hooked up on has a big black knob in the center of it. Don't have
the faintest what it is but it looks ancient...maybe a fuse? The
ground wire (or what ever it is) is also ancient looking and after
digging through the rafters I found it isn't connected to anything.
If this is supposed to be a ground line...could I just hook it up the
AC ground at the water main (which is very close)?

As for the cable...it comes in from the pole at the back of the
property to a plate on the side of the house then continues into the
house (on a separate run of coax). This plate has a wire running into
the ground but I don't know how deep. I also ran a copper ground wire
from the satellite dish to this plate.

These types of things I'm a complete newbie with. Hooking up a new
phone line or cable to another room is one thing but I don't touch the
mains box. Been zapped once and DO NOT want to experience that
sensation again!! I know its not easy without seeing but what do you
think of this setup? Improvements needed?

Dave



"w_tom" wrote in message
...
1) Your cable provider does not provide a surge protector
because they must provide surge protection. That coaxial
cable is required, even by NEC standards, to be earthed before
it enters the building. That earthing is required for human
safety reasons. That earthing also provides surge
protection. Ask them if their installation conforms to these
requirements:
Outer conductive shield is grounded at the building premises as
close to the point of cable entrance or attachment as practicable.
The grounding conductor shall not be smaller than 14 AWG. It shall
have a current-carrying capacity approximately equal to that of
the
outer conductor of the coaxial cable.
The grounding conductor shall be as short as prcticable. In one
and two family dwellings, the grounding conductor shall be as
short
as practicable, not to exceed 6.0 meters (20 feet) in length.

2) Your phone company is required by NEC standards to have
installed the protector. If they said none is installed, then
either the responder did not understand what is actually
provided, or responder did not understand the question, or
telco is violating National Electrical Code requirements.
Code is quoted:
From the National Electrical Code Article 800.30A:
A listed primary protector shall be provided on each circuit
run partly or entirely in aerial wire or aerial cable not
confined within the block containing the building served so
as to be exposed to accidental contact with electric light or
power conductor operating at over 300 volts to ground.

Article 800.30B Location.
The primary protector shall be located in, on, or immediately
adjacent to the structure or building served and as close as
practical to the point of entrance.

3) Electric companies would install a 'whole house'
protector behind meter. It would look like an extender ring
behind meter. It would look something like this:
http://www.leaintl.com/pdf/MsaCutsheet.pdf
They would charge something like $5 per month for that
protector. In one year, you a minimally sized 'whole house'
protector could have been paid for almost 1.5 times over.

Electric company would never put anything inside a breaker
box. They would install a 'whole house' protector only where
they have jurisdiction. Inside your breaker box is beyond
their jurisdiction. They can refuse to provide service based
upon what is inside that box. But they do not access or
install equipment inside that box.

Minimally acceptable protectors for residential AC electric
are sold in Home Depot as Intermatic IG1240RC or EG240RC or
Siemens QSA2020.

Some examples of third party phone line protectors:
http://www.one.co.uk/catalogue/teleb...otect/22PX.HTM
http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse11.htm

http://www.citelprotection.com/engli.../data_line_pro
tection/B280_B380_B480.PDF
http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse08.htm
http://www.oneac.com/pdf/917116c.pdf


Vanguard wrote:
I finally got some response to e-mails that I sent to my cable
broadband provider and my telephone company. Neither one provides
surge protection (at the service entry or anywhere else). UFFDA!
So much for the telco providing surge protection on their service,
or having any protection on the cable coax. I'm still reading
through all the links you provided (had to do some house
restoration
since then and been pretty busy). Besides whole-home surge
protection, now I'll have to figure out how to insert surge
arrestors
into the telephone and cable lines. I checked with my electric
company who said that they used to provide surge arrestors as part
of some service plan but do not anymore. I've been hunting around
to see if I can find a surge arrestor anywhere and haven't found
one
yet. About the only place I haven't checked so far is to open up
the
circuit breaker box to see if it is installed inside the box
instead
of inserted into a breaker slot.

I guess I should say that I'm in Canada...judging by all the UK links
provided I assume the regulations quoted are also UK and probably
different here.

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
1) Your cable provider does not provide a surge protector
because they must provide surge protection. That coaxial
cable is required, even by NEC standards, to be earthed before
it enters the building. That earthing is required for human
safety reasons. That earthing also provides surge
protection. Ask them if their installation conforms to these
requirements:
Outer conductive shield is grounded at the building premises as
close to the point of cable entrance or attachment as practicable.
The grounding conductor shall not be smaller than 14 AWG. It shall
have a current-carrying capacity approximately equal to that of
the
outer conductor of the coaxial cable.
The grounding conductor shall be as short as prcticable. In one
and two family dwellings, the grounding conductor shall be as
short
as practicable, not to exceed 6.0 meters (20 feet) in length.

2) Your phone company is required by NEC standards to have
installed the protector. If they said none is installed, then
either the responder did not understand what is actually
provided, or responder did not understand the question, or
telco is violating National Electrical Code requirements.
Code is quoted:
From the National Electrical Code Article 800.30A:
A listed primary protector shall be provided on each circuit
run partly or entirely in aerial wire or aerial cable not
confined within the block containing the building served so
as to be exposed to accidental contact with electric light or
power conductor operating at over 300 volts to ground.

Article 800.30B Location.
The primary protector shall be located in, on, or immediately
adjacent to the structure or building served and as close as
practical to the point of entrance.

3) Electric companies would install a 'whole house'
protector behind meter. It would look like an extender ring
behind meter. It would look something like this:
http://www.leaintl.com/pdf/MsaCutsheet.pdf
They would charge something like $5 per month for that
protector. In one year, you a minimally sized 'whole house'
protector could have been paid for almost 1.5 times over.

Electric company would never put anything inside a breaker
box. They would install a 'whole house' protector only where
they have jurisdiction. Inside your breaker box is beyond
their jurisdiction. They can refuse to provide service based
upon what is inside that box. But they do not access or
install equipment inside that box.

Minimally acceptable protectors for residential AC electric
are sold in Home Depot as Intermatic IG1240RC or EG240RC or
Siemens QSA2020.

Some examples of third party phone line protectors:
http://www.one.co.uk/catalogue/teleb...otect/22PX.HTM
http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse11.htm

http://www.citelprotection.com/engli.../data_line_pro
tection/B280_B380_B480.PDF
http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse08.htm
http://www.oneac.com/pdf/917116c.pdf


Vanguard wrote:
I finally got some response to e-mails that I sent to my cable
broadband provider and my telephone company. Neither one provides
surge protection (at the service entry or anywhere else). UFFDA!
So much for the telco providing surge protection on their service,
or having any protection on the cable coax. I'm still reading
through all the links you provided (had to do some house
restoration
since then and been pretty busy). Besides whole-home surge
protection, now I'll have to figure out how to insert surge
arrestors
into the telephone and cable lines. I checked with my electric
company who said that they used to provide surge arrestors as part
of some service plan but do not anymore. I've been hunting around
to see if I can find a surge arrestor anywhere and haven't found
one
yet. About the only place I haven't checked so far is to open up
the
circuit breaker box to see if it is installed inside the box
instead
of inserted into a breaker slot.

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:54:29 GMT, "David LeBrun"
wrote:

Ok...about quality units...
One of my systems is using an Enermax 300W, another is Antec 350W.
Yet another is the AOpen branded unit which came in a clone case...at
least on its second or possibly third year of use. Yet another case
is most likely one of the bargain units and I'll probably look to
replace it by swapping in my current Enermax and getting a newer
model. I really like my Enermax unit...well built with good quality
long cables and has been in use well over a year. This Antec unit
seems to be very good also (but its fairly new so can't compare it
much yet). Its voltages are closer to spec than the Enermax but we're
talking
+/-0.2v or so.

The Antec is a better power supply, due to being more accurately
rated. The Enermax is fine if you consider it at roughly 75% of it's
rating, that is, if you want a ~300W power supply you need a 430W
Enermax. That's the catch with Enermax... they start putting $ into
eye-candy before the inside = label.

I like the idea of the dedicated voltage rails on the
newer Antec units...claims that the only load required is on +12v
which would be excellent for bench-testing equipment. Its a toss-up
between these two brands for me.

It's actually more of a marketing-feature than anything else... in
some circumstances it's actually better to have the ability to draw 3V
& 5V from the same source, like when one or the other rails has
particularly high load. Regardless, the no-load situation merely
means it has internal load resisitors, so in everyday use it runs
slightly hotter and wastes energy. It may somewhat reduce RMA and
allow it to more easily be used on a bench, but minimum load of any
standard power supply is easily met once attached to a *normal*
system.

I've seen other brands advertised: KingWin, Zalman, Thermaltake to
name a few.

Kingwin is similar to Enermax in that the level of eye-candy exceeds
the interior quality, but Kingwin is overall lower quality,
particularly in their lower wattage models.

Thermaltake is about average quality, also known as Highpower or
Enlight, made by Sirtec. They are a fine choice and good value
considering they're lower-cost per wattage, but a notch below an
Antec. Zalman are in the same category, but overpriced for little
more than a quiet fan or more conservative fan throttling (which
shouldn't change cost at all).

AOpen is Sparkle/Fortron relabel, a good value and good construction,
about equal to Enermax in the OEM versions, closer to Antec in the
retail. In general these Sparkle/Fortron power supplies are the best
value (unless something else is on sale) but for a high-end, high
power consumption system I'd recommend the 400W, as it's a significant
step up from 350W, moreso than 350W from 300W.

Also see lots and lots of "no-name" units...when I check
in at the local store I see some 400W units for $30...compared to
similar Enermax for $110 and Antec for $120. What's your brand of
choice?


Most power supplies of decent quality bear the manufacturer's name on
the label. Beware of those that don't. Large volume manufacturers of
power supplies used in OEM and workstations, servers, have high-end
power supplies and components bought at high-volume, manufacturered in
high volume, and lower cost per unit. Delta, Antec, & Sparkle are the
best bets for getting not only a decent power supply, but a fair price
for it (though recently the Antec Truepowers have seen a
disproportionate increase in price compared to the competition). Also
consider "PC Power& Cooling", which are usually overpriced but very
good and may be a great deal when on sale.

When I think about what would be in a $30 unit...
- you've got the shell...that can't be avoided...maybe make it thinner
metal but it can't be plastic because of heat...can't afford a lawsuit
when racking in only 30 bucks per

- mobo/drive power lines...can't be avoided either...would be useless
otherwise...could possibly get away with using thinner guage wiring to
cut cost...defintly no gold plated connectors

Cost cannot be the only deciding factor. There is a large difference
(in favor of Sparkle) when comparing a Sparkle $30 power supply to a
generic. There's a greater difference than merely thinner wires or
metal casing... a few of the other differences were mentioned by
w_tom. Gold plated connectors aren't needed except perhaps in a
marine environment or outdoors, where corrosion occurs at much higher
rate.

- single fan w/ sleve bearing...these things are a dime a
dozen...definitely not 2 fans since it would add to cost...not that
there's a spot to put the fan since there aren't any ventalation
holes/slats in these units

The quietest power supplies often use a sleeve bearing fan for the
slight noise reduction, but it does compromise lifespan... the fan is
often the first part to fail. Don't think junk power supplies only
have one fan though, the low-quality generics may have (and some do)
have two fans... the closer they mimic a decent power supply, the more
likely they can get away with charging similar prices, just a little
less expensive to entice purchase. There are plenty of good
single-fan power supplies, but also many fans labeled as ball-bearing
when it's a 1 ball, 1 sleeve bearing, which IMHO is the worst
possible alternative because an all-sleeve bearing can easily be
relubricated if there isn't a stamped-in-metal fan grill, but relubing
a ball + sleeve bearing fan is less successful because the degraded
sleeve bearing has shed particles that get into the ball-bearing, and
relubing it will cause thinner (than original) lubricant to get into
the ball-bearing, making it very loud. This isn't always the case,
sometimes relubing works, but in general the ball plus sleeve bearing
fans are the shortest lived IF the all-sleeve bearing counterpart is
of equal quality and relubed when necessary.


- the "guts"...after spending money on all the rest...can't spend too
much here...however since there is no packaging or manual or spec
sheet the savings "could" be applied here

Corners are probably cut everywhere possible, from labor cost to
manufacturing to testing, parts, warranty, support, etc.


Another thing is that you never get a warranty other than the few days
from the store if it doesn't work. I've trashed enough of these
things I could run a drive power line from my basement to the second
floor.

Dave

Warranty is nice but realistically I'd rather have a good power supply
with a 30 day warranty than a junk one with 3 years... who covers the
REST of the system failing?


Dave