Future AGP Support?

Chip wrote:


"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...

[snip]
PCI and ISA hung around for longer than necessary
because they had a huge install base and because the slot didn't die, it
remained fully in use. I suspect AGP will more closely follow the course
of VLB.

What a strange conclusion you choose to draw. I agree completely with the
first sentence:

"PCI and ISA hung around for longer than necessary because they had a huge
install base and because the slot didn't die, it remained fully in use."

And then when you consider AGP, wouldn't you also say that it has "a huge
install base"? I would, given that 99% of all installed graphics cards
and motherboards are AGP today!!!

I think you will be able to buy new AGP graphics cards (and motherboards
for that matter) for quite some time yet.

What's likely to happen though is that development of AGP hardware will be
put on the back burner or halted so that you won't be able to get any new
features on AGP video or motherboards and AGP technology will effectively
be frozen at some level.

Chip

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Chip wrote:
"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...

[snip]

PCI and ISA hung around for longer than necessary
because they had a huge install base and because the slot didn't die, it
remained fully in use. I suspect AGP will more closely follow the course
of VLB.


What a strange conclusion you choose to draw. I agree completely with the
first sentence:

"PCI and ISA hung around for longer than necessary because they had a huge
install base and because the slot didn't die, it remained fully in use."

And then when you consider AGP, wouldn't you also say that it has "a huge
install base"? I would, given that 99% of all installed graphics cards and
motherboards are AGP today!!!

I think you will be able to buy new AGP graphics cards (and motherboards for
that matter) for quite some time yet.

Chip



PCI and ISA slots continued to be present on motherboards well after
they had been replaced by AGP for video cards, since they were being
used for other things (and some systems needed to use PCI video cards
too since they had no AGP slot). AGP, on the other hand, will not be
present on motherboards which support PCI Express.

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/

Chip:
I think you will be able to buy new AGP graphics cards (and
motherboards for that matter) for quite some time yet.

That statement is sufficiently vague as to mean nothing. Does 'quite some
time' mean: 6 weeks, 6 months, 12 months, 18 months, 3 years? I think AGP
will be effectively gone in 12-18 months. (there may still be AGP cards
available, but most of us will not be buying them)
--
Mac Cool

In article 2JiEd.36917$8l.21421@pd7tw1no, Robert Hancock
writes

AGP, on the other hand, will not be
present on motherboards which support PCI Express.

I've already seen at least one board that has both PCI Express and AGP.

--
..sigmonster on vacation

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Chip wrote:


"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...

[snip]
PCI and ISA hung around for longer than necessary
because they had a huge install base and because the slot didn't die, it
remained fully in use. I suspect AGP will more closely follow the course
of VLB.

What a strange conclusion you choose to draw. I agree completely with
the
first sentence:

"PCI and ISA hung around for longer than necessary because they had a
huge
install base and because the slot didn't die, it remained fully in use."

And then when you consider AGP, wouldn't you also say that it has "a huge
install base"? I would, given that 99% of all installed graphics cards
and motherboards are AGP today!!!

I think you will be able to buy new AGP graphics cards (and motherboards
for that matter) for quite some time yet.

What's likely to happen though is that development of AGP hardware will be
put on the back burner or halted so that you won't be able to get any new
features on AGP video or motherboards and AGP technology will effectively
be frozen at some level.

To an extent I agree. I still envisage at least one more generation of ATI
and nVidia chips being available on AGP cards. Probably more than one. You
have to remember that neither nVidia nor ATI make the cards and there are a
plethora of oems all jostling for a slice of the market, trying to find
different differentiators and ways to grab a piece of market share. With
the *vast* number of AGP motherboards installed out there, I find it
inconceivable that none of the card oems will want to offer AGP versions of
their cards.

Chip

"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...
Chip:
I think you will be able to buy new AGP graphics cards (and
motherboards for that matter) for quite some time yet.

That statement is sufficiently vague as to mean nothing. Does 'quite some
time' mean: 6 weeks, 6 months, 12 months, 18 months, 3 years? I think AGP
will be effectively gone in 12-18 months. (there may still be AGP cards
available, but most of us will not be buying them)
--

Hmmmm. I am not a lawyer carefully choosing every word. I have no idea
exactly how long AGP cards will be kicking around. I merely wanted to point
out to those who think AGP is dead and buried already, that it is not.

As to your final sentence, I can pick holes in that too:

"there may still be AGP cards available in 12 -18 months, but most of us
will not be buying them"

Who is "us" exactly? If you mean Dell, then of course. I doubt the big PC
oems are buying AGP cards now, let alone in 18months! But what about your
average punter with a 2.6GHz P4 and ATI 9600. What will *he* buy in 12-18
months from now? Some of those guys will of course buy a new PC. But many
will still want an AGP card. And for that reason, I would expect AGP cards
will still be available (and offering the then current chipsets) in 12-18
months time.

Chip

Mike Tomlinson wrote:

In article 2JiEd.36917$8l.21421@pd7tw1no, Robert Hancock
writes

AGP, on the other hand, will not be
present on motherboards which support PCI Express.

I've already seen at least one board that has both PCI Express and AGP.

Made by PCChips or one of their subsidiaries and using a proprietary bridge
chip also made by PCChips or one of their subsidiaries. Given PCCHips'
reputation, one would not expect this to be a particularly reliable
product. If there is a real market for such boards then PCChips will soon
rule the industry. If there is not then there's no reason for other chip
manufacturers to jump on the bandwagon.

Since an extra part (the bridge chip) has to be added to any PCI Express
board to allow it to have a working AGP slot, and since that bridge, at
this time anyway, comes from one of the less well regarded manufacturers,
it's unlikely that you're going to see it included on very many boards that
are not made by PCChips.

Now, it may be that in the future the chip manufacturers incorporate the
bridge chip in the chipset, in which case boards with both PCI Express and
AGP will become readily available, but that won't happen unless the PCChips
experiment does well enough to show that there is a market.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Chip wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Chip wrote:


"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...

[snip]
PCI and ISA hung around for longer than necessary
because they had a huge install base and because the slot didn't die,
it remained fully in use. I suspect AGP will more closely follow the
course of VLB.

What a strange conclusion you choose to draw. I agree completely with
the
first sentence:

"PCI and ISA hung around for longer than necessary because they had a
huge
install base and because the slot didn't die, it remained fully in use."

And then when you consider AGP, wouldn't you also say that it has "a
huge
install base"? I would, given that 99% of all installed graphics cards
and motherboards are AGP today!!!

I think you will be able to buy new AGP graphics cards (and motherboards
for that matter) for quite some time yet.

What's likely to happen though is that development of AGP hardware will
be put on the back burner or halted so that you won't be able to get any
new features on AGP video or motherboards and AGP technology will
effectively be frozen at some level.

To an extent I agree. I still envisage at least one more generation of
ATI
and nVidia chips being available on AGP cards. Probably more than one.
You have to remember that neither nVidia nor ATI make the cards and there
are a plethora of oems all jostling for a slice of the market, trying to
find
different differentiators and ways to grab a piece of market share. With
the *vast* number of AGP motherboards installed out there, I find it
inconceivable that none of the card oems will want to offer AGP versions
of their cards.

The board manufacturer doesn't get to arbitrarily decide which interface to
use though--if the chip supports PCI Express and the manufacturer wants to
use AGP then unless the chip manufacturer has an approved bridge chip the
board manufacturer has to get it from a third party and then beat the
combination into submission.

Chip

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Chip:
what about your average punter with a 2.6GHz P4 and ATI 9600. What
will *he* buy in 12-18 months from now?

A 6800GT? A new PCI-E motherboard?
A new AGP motherboard 18 months from now would be useless.
--
Mac Cool

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Chip wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Chip wrote:


"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...

[snip]
PCI and ISA hung around for longer than necessary
because they had a huge install base and because the slot didn't die,
it remained fully in use. I suspect AGP will more closely follow the
course of VLB.

What a strange conclusion you choose to draw. I agree completely with
the
first sentence:

"PCI and ISA hung around for longer than necessary because they had a
huge
install base and because the slot didn't die, it remained fully in
use."

And then when you consider AGP, wouldn't you also say that it has "a
huge
install base"? I would, given that 99% of all installed graphics cards
and motherboards are AGP today!!!

I think you will be able to buy new AGP graphics cards (and
motherboards
for that matter) for quite some time yet.

What's likely to happen though is that development of AGP hardware will
be put on the back burner or halted so that you won't be able to get any
new features on AGP video or motherboards and AGP technology will
effectively be frozen at some level.

To an extent I agree. I still envisage at least one more generation of
ATI
and nVidia chips being available on AGP cards. Probably more than one.
You have to remember that neither nVidia nor ATI make the cards and there
are a plethora of oems all jostling for a slice of the market, trying to
find
different differentiators and ways to grab a piece of market share. With
the *vast* number of AGP motherboards installed out there, I find it
inconceivable that none of the card oems will want to offer AGP versions
of their cards.

The board manufacturer doesn't get to arbitrarily decide which interface
to
use though--if the chip supports PCI Express and the manufacturer wants to
use AGP then unless the chip manufacturer has an approved bridge chip the
board manufacturer has to get it from a third party and then beat the
combination into submission.

Of course. But since the nVidia chips are (all?) native AGP parts, I can't
see them dropping AGP any time soon. You don't need any adapter to run AGP
chips on an AGP bus!

Chip