Q: Why don't desktops us mobile cpus?

Well for my house.

1. Living room where my wife and one child are watching TV. So that has (4)
60W light bulbs. Plus the fan is running.
2. Office where I'm on the computer which has a single 150W halogen.
3. Bedroom where my second child is playing which has 4 recessed lamps. I
forget the watts so lets just assume 60W.

4. Added bonus, lets assume my mother in law is taking ANOTHER BATH so that
bathroom has (6) 40W bulbs.

Plus there's all the lighting on the landscaping, plus the front portch
light which stays on all the time except during the day (sensor).


"kony" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:34:41 -0330, Gargravarr
wrote:

What are you talking about? That's huge compared to 60watts max! I could
literally turn every light on in my entire house with that power!

Michael


I can only guess, but if you're lighting your whole house with
a coupla hundred watts then either your house is *very* small or
you're walking around it in the f**kin' dark like you are in
this NG.
"That's huge" ? You idiot.


It is fairly easy to do it. Except for a reading area,
one's eyes generally acclimate fine to lower wattage light,
a couple bulbs in fairly unrestricted fixtures can light a
room fine, maybe 4 per large room, so with 14W per CCFL
"bulb", that's 3 small rooms and 2 large ones lit
continuously... how many rooms do you really need lit up
constantly?

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 17:06:43 +1100, "Michael C"
wrote:

"kony" wrote in message
.. .
So the real key here is not to choose a mobile CPU, it's to
avoid a P4.

To find something that's lower power isn't it?


No, to choose one that doesn't waste power with no benefit.


There's going to be two camps mostly,

Not everything is black and white. There's also those people like myself who
need something pretty quick but don't have to have the latest and greatest.
Not everyone plays games or spends their days ripping dvds.

Then why would you buy a new system at all? The mobile CPU
system then is still a waste as there was environment and
energy usage in manufacture, distribution, sales and
support.



those that do the
traditional low-requirement tasks such as surfing, office,
email, etc, who can continue using their Coppermine P3 era
system and those CPUs at lower speeds can consume under 20W,

Have you actually checked that? Why do they have 250W power supplies if they
use 20watts?

I meant CPU alone.
It is pointless to describe a mobile CPU based system as a
60W or sub-60W system, because you're arbitrarily trying to
credit the CPU with the power savings. IF you had two
systems similarly equipped and one had mobile CPU but other
didn't, the one without mobile CPU (except P4) would not use
30W more power. Random ideas about what a stripped down
system will require are not applicable... if the stripped
down system were sufficient, one would choose that even if
it didn't have a mobile CPU in it. The other parts make
more of a difference than the CPU.



I'm not against low-powered systems, but when it comes down
to it, we can't decide what someone else buys in a free
society so long as it's legal. Additional taxation is
generally frowned upon as well, so what is the incentive
going to be? Those who want the lower energy bill for
finanical reasons might tend to just keep using their old,
low powered system that does use under 75W (typically).
Much commontion is made about the fastest speeds of P4 but
how many people do you know that have that particular CPU?

The incentive would be a system that has similar speed but much less power
usage and not much greater cost.

Sure, the hypothetical ideal, everything is *free*. If that
were the case, we'd not this thread here at all.

Plenty of people do buy based on the
environment, it might be hard to imagine if you don't yourself but plenty
do.

"Plenty"? How many do you know that can tell you how much
power their system uses at idle and full load? If they
don't know, how would be assume it?

In past years desktop and mobile CPUs have both consumed
more power than Via CPUs. In most of the world, excepting
the orient, those CPUs didn't sell well at all. If you want
to describe the decision as merely choosing one that
consumes a dozen watts difference, I feel it's a pointless
decision to make, the difference is trivial in the grand
scheme of things and cannot be described in some kind of
context such as "if ALL systems were like that", since it is
clear all systems are not like that and wouldn't be.

Especially seeing the power usage of P4s and AMDs has been a hot topic
in the last few years. Personally a lower powered CPU gives me the
impression that it will be more stable also.

Impression? Rather arbitrary, if the CPU is optimized for
low power it's having voltage reduced which is in itself a
reason for instability. No, there is no reason to believe
one is more stable, providing a few assumptions are made
such as keeping desktop cpu cool enough with standard
heatsink and chassis cooling methods.


That's possibly a total load of
******** but plenty of product has been sold based on impressions.

Therein lies the problem, impressions. My impression is
that your impression of the power savings is overinflated
and that the real savings is too slight to spend any time on
relative to the rest of the world's energy or environmental
concerns, that by spending even a moment discussing the
issue it is worse than not discussing it, rather focus on
other things. If you had a hole in your roof and your
faucet was dripping, during a thunderstorm, does it make
sense to fixate on the faucet?



Does anyone here know the actual performance difference? Someone told me the
mobile CPUs were quite fast but I haven't had that confirmed.

CPU is but one bottleneck. If we make a determination it's
still non-applicable as several concessions have to be made
to get systems down to 60W. If one dismisses each
concession in turn, it misses the whole point as the
performance continually degrades onto the point that nobody
should buy a new system rather than continuing use of the
old one. If one thing is certain, a newer system must
reasonably have a performance gain, or the cost must further
decline.

It must be so sad to live such a lonely life. My heart goes out to you.


"JAD" wrote in message
...

"ISOHaven" wrote in message
...
Most of what you have seen I'm sure has come from low power requirements
such as people building a PC for their automobile and other areas such as
trying to build the smallest form factor.


Now you know what people see, you should be on the stage.


....and for that dip**** that's running around YES that's my OPINION and
my knowledge from personal research on doing such activities.



You should really learn how to phrase your 'opinions'

Most of what you have seen I'm sure your sure! yeah those articles
about buiding car computers are everywhere.



"Michael C" wrote in message
...
"jaster" wrote in message
news On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:29:45 -0800, ISOHaven thoughtfully wrote:

I think a direct answer to your question is: The reason they don't
make
very many mobile CPUs for desktops is because there is NO MARKET for
it.
Take a look around, is anyone else asking this question? No.

Well someone has to be first.

Actually you're far from the first. I've heard of mobile cpus being used
in desktops a few times before and from my experience by the time I've
heard of it the idea is newish but not that new.

Michael

Wow....simply....WOW!

Good for you.




"JAD" wrote in message
...

"ISOHaven" wrote in message
...

DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I told you what the CRAP was all
about..............Since you couldn't figure out what they were
referring to I let you in on a secret HEAT POWER CONSUMPTION
andddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd landfill pollution. You are one rock
headed jerk.


The only rock headed jerk is you. How many times do you need to be told
the same thing? I've told you what? 5 times already????

"What the heck is that crap all about?"

How many times do I need to tell you the same thing? My comment was
regarding what THEY where talking ABOUT. They where talking ABOUT noise,
heat and power. I then discussed noise, heat and power. NOBODY WAS
****ING TALKING ABOUT DISPOSAL YOU GOD DAMN ****ING STUPID MORONIC PIECE
OF ****. You are the only dumb ****er here talking about disposal. This
thread has NOTHING to do with disposal.

****ING GET OVER
YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know the only reason you keep beating this to death is because you know
damn good and well how wrong you are.

Nice try, won't fly.....you were claimimg ignorance to what 'companies'
were calling for when it came to 'green', You are the one who is dodging
the bullet, your ignorance of GREEN is obvious and you don't like to admit
it.

You just feel stupid so this is all
you have to make yourself feel better. Well I can go on FOREVER!!!! So
keep it up if you like. Unless you just start on even dumber **** then
you already have. But today will be limited I have tons of work to do.


I got your brand of crystal ball today... I found you don't have a thing
to do..just another excuse.

There is a WHOLE lot of assumption and guessing as to what people do with
lighting(power use) in their domicile. This power consumption analogy isn't
going to fly, as everyone's household is different.(let alone WHERE they
live) Assuming people do ANYTHING normally or 'just like me' is far from the
norm.

I tell you what though, if people put 1/10th of the thought proccss that you
all have towards power concervation....we wouldn't be worried about 'power'
any more.

On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:58:57 +1100, "Michael C"
wrote:

"kony" wrote in message
.. .
That's mainly true if comparing otherwise dissimilar
systems, or only considering a P4- a CPU that might be
considered an exception even if it is contemporary, simply
because there are other (practicallly every) other
alternative has significantly lower power whether a mobile
CPU or not.

One can certainly shave a few watts off if they choose an
OEM all-integrated-features system, but then for years
people have been advised to avoid that if possible.

A few watts?

Yes

I don't have figures myself but the site that someone posted
suggested the pentium M mobo system would run off a 60W power supply,

Sure, if it's a minimal system and the supply is capable of
60W sustained, and more instantaneous. Recall that there
are desktop systems not so spartan that run off 160-200W
mATX PSU.

which
would suggest it's using much less on average. Where someone else posted
figures from 150watt to 236watt for P4 and AMD systems. That a lot more than
a few watts.

Yes but that's apples and oranges, several different parts.
Those systems could be stripped down and slowed down and
would consume less but the benchmarkers and users choose not
to do so. In the end it is the customer's choice.

I see you completely dismissed the Celeron thing....later... your found out.


"ISOHaven" wrote in message
...
Wow. You either have nothing better to do or you have completely run out
of BS from the tangent you created above. At first the only crappy part
of this thread was the BS you stared early on, now you are leeching
through the rest of it to cause BS everywhere else. What the hell your
deal man? Is your life that pathetic?

If you followed the industry at all then you would pick up on little bits
of info here and there and one of those bits of info that a higher
percentage of people BUY their computer as a whole then the percentage
that builds their own. Then there's the fun percentages that show you how
many people simply build a machine and how many actually supercharge them.

What do you want me to do? Apologize for knowing something you don't?
Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black!


"JAD" wrote in message
...

"ISOHaven" wrote in message
...
"Yes why aren't they making hybrid engines. And not many people raise a
stink when Ford or GM stop producing a specific model. "
I think cars was a bad idea here. You show me a hybrid engine that can
tow my boat and I'll BUILD you all the Pentium M baord you want! There
are cars for every person and every task. You can't have just one car.
Ok, keep reading below...

"You keep ranting about powerful cpus and missing the point about
manufacturing 2 cpu types for the same consumers home/office non-mobile
vs. mobile."
1. NO! I'm talking about manufactures making 2 cpus types. High power
(business) and low power (home). IT'S YOU that wants them to make a
third low low low power model.

Most buisnesses use celeron based rigs....is that high power or low, oh
wonderful wizard of all things CPU

2. You have mentioned before you want to see Intel make just ONE
processor and dump the rest. Or did you finaly drop that senerio?

"The NGs are unique because NG groupies are more PC savvy than Joe or
Jane Average."
You keep talking about Joe and Jane. Dude, Joe and JAne buy thier PCs
from Best Buy. Your Pentium M Solution will only be pennies cheaper if
that.


Now your an expert on the average PC buyer...................damn dude
your an egomaniac


"jaster" wrote in message
news On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:21:08 -0800, ISOHaven thoughtfully wrote:

Then buy a laptop! Your point still eludes me.

If you put a mobile processor in a DESKTOP case with DESKTOP
components
you will NOT save anything. You wont save power and you wont save
money. Not enough to force manufactures to create MORE PRODUCT then
they
already are producing.

You keep responding with the same thing. I DON'T NEED THAT MUCH
COMPUTING POWER. Yet you keep failing to answer the same question
that
people keep asking you. Even though sometimes it was a "round about"
point.

What are you trying to GAIN by doing this?

"Maybe I should have asked why are there desktop cpus now that there
are
mobile cpus"
Sorry, but that's a silly question. So I guess now that we have
hybrid
cars why are we still making and buying gas cars?

Yes why aren't they making hybrid engines. And not many people raise
a stink when Ford or GM stop producing a specific model.

Or maybe EVERY car
company should make only Kia Rio's? I think the real problem here is
you are unaware of the statistics of the average PC user. You seem to
think the average user doesn't need any power. I think you are wrong.
More businesses use computers then home users so Intel STILL needs to
make powerful cpu's so like you where told before, why should they
make
twice as many cpu's just because you want them to? I think Intel has
a
pretty good handle on the market and I think they know a little more
about what they should or shouldn't do then you.

I was in a Forbes 50 corporation and they never bought bleeding edge
computers just slightly above average computers when they had to
replace
aging equipment every 2-3 yrs. A friend of mine just bought one
out-of-date powerful company computer for his daughter, PII 450,
384ram,
20g hd, cdrom. Yep real powerful.


"So if Intel/AMD stopped making "desktop" cpus and only manufactured
"mobile" cpus what would be the loss?" Actually the real question
would
be, what would be the gain? Also maybe YOU don't give a damn about
power (horsepower) but many of us do so I would kindly appreciate it
if
you NEVER become the world dominator on cpu's and take away my
consumer
right to have a very powerful system just because you are on some
green
peace trip.

Buy an IBM, Sparc or Amdahl for all I care. You keep ranting about
powerful cpus and missing the point about manufacturing 2 cpu types for
the same consumers home/office non-mobile vs. mobile.

If IBM and AMD dropped the "desktop" cpus and only manufactured
"mobile"
cpus no one would care as long as the cpus perform. The NGs are
unique
because NG groupies are more PC savvy than Joe or Jane Average.
The hardware NG groupies know more about hardware than some tech
support people and pay more attention to components. Even so not to
many are dropping $1000 every 6 mo. just to get the newest cpu or
graphics
card.

I saw it and it had no baring on anything so I didn't comment. But since
you insist.

I just know you are going to love this!!!!

Actually, Celeron sales have been slowing declining so to use common sense,
NO most businesses are not using Celeron CPUs. Celeron sales, while
declining as a whole, are raising in the retail market showing that Joe and
Jane are buying cheaper and cheaper computers.

And since you "basically" call me a liar every time I post, this is from
Dataquest:

"The market share of Intel Celeron processors dropped down to 20.9%, while
it used to be around 27.2% a year ago. As for the Pentium 4 processors
share, it has grown from 36.4% up to 53.9%"





"JAD" wrote in message
...
I see you completely dismissed the Celeron thing....later... your found
out.


"ISOHaven" wrote in message
...
Wow. You either have nothing better to do or you have completely run out
of BS from the tangent you created above. At first the only crappy part
of this thread was the BS you stared early on, now you are leeching
through the rest of it to cause BS everywhere else. What the hell your
deal man? Is your life that pathetic?

If you followed the industry at all then you would pick up on little bits
of info here and there and one of those bits of info that a higher
percentage of people BUY their computer as a whole then the percentage
that builds their own. Then there's the fun percentages that show you
how many people simply build a machine and how many actually supercharge
them.

What do you want me to do? Apologize for knowing something you don't?
Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black!


"JAD" wrote in message
...

"ISOHaven" wrote in message
...
"Yes why aren't they making hybrid engines. And not many people raise
a stink when Ford or GM stop producing a specific model. "
I think cars was a bad idea here. You show me a hybrid engine that can
tow my boat and I'll BUILD you all the Pentium M baord you want! There
are cars for every person and every task. You can't have just one car.
Ok, keep reading below...

"You keep ranting about powerful cpus and missing the point about
manufacturing 2 cpu types for the same consumers home/office non-mobile
vs. mobile."
1. NO! I'm talking about manufactures making 2 cpus types. High power
(business) and low power (home). IT'S YOU that wants them to make a
third low low low power model.

Most buisnesses use celeron based rigs....is that high power or low, oh
wonderful wizard of all things CPU

2. You have mentioned before you want to see Intel make just ONE
processor and dump the rest. Or did you finaly drop that senerio?

"The NGs are unique because NG groupies are more PC savvy than Joe or
Jane Average."
You keep talking about Joe and Jane. Dude, Joe and JAne buy thier PCs
from Best Buy. Your Pentium M Solution will only be pennies cheaper if
that.


Now your an expert on the average PC buyer...................damn dude
your an egomaniac


"jaster" wrote in message
news On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:21:08 -0800, ISOHaven thoughtfully wrote:

Then buy a laptop! Your point still eludes me.

If you put a mobile processor in a DESKTOP case with DESKTOP
components
you will NOT save anything. You wont save power and you wont save
money. Not enough to force manufactures to create MORE PRODUCT then
they
already are producing.

You keep responding with the same thing. I DON'T NEED THAT MUCH
COMPUTING POWER. Yet you keep failing to answer the same question
that
people keep asking you. Even though sometimes it was a "round about"
point.

What are you trying to GAIN by doing this?

"Maybe I should have asked why are there desktop cpus now that there
are
mobile cpus"
Sorry, but that's a silly question. So I guess now that we have
hybrid
cars why are we still making and buying gas cars?

Yes why aren't they making hybrid engines. And not many people raise
a stink when Ford or GM stop producing a specific model.

Or maybe EVERY car
company should make only Kia Rio's? I think the real problem here is
you are unaware of the statistics of the average PC user. You seem
to
think the average user doesn't need any power. I think you are
wrong.
More businesses use computers then home users so Intel STILL needs to
make powerful cpu's so like you where told before, why should they
make
twice as many cpu's just because you want them to? I think Intel has
a
pretty good handle on the market and I think they know a little more
about what they should or shouldn't do then you.

I was in a Forbes 50 corporation and they never bought bleeding edge
computers just slightly above average computers when they had to
replace
aging equipment every 2-3 yrs. A friend of mine just bought one
out-of-date powerful company computer for his daughter, PII 450,
384ram,
20g hd, cdrom. Yep real powerful.


"So if Intel/AMD stopped making "desktop" cpus and only manufactured
"mobile" cpus what would be the loss?" Actually the real question
would
be, what would be the gain? Also maybe YOU don't give a damn about
power (horsepower) but many of us do so I would kindly appreciate it
if
you NEVER become the world dominator on cpu's and take away my
consumer
right to have a very powerful system just because you are on some
green
peace trip.

Buy an IBM, Sparc or Amdahl for all I care. You keep ranting about
powerful cpus and missing the point about manufacturing 2 cpu types
for
the same consumers home/office non-mobile vs. mobile.

If IBM and AMD dropped the "desktop" cpus and only manufactured
"mobile"
cpus no one would care as long as the cpus perform. The NGs are
unique
because NG groupies are more PC savvy than Joe or Jane Average.
The hardware NG groupies know more about hardware than some tech
support people and pay more attention to components. Even so not to
many are dropping $1000 every 6 mo. just to get the newest cpu or
graphics
card.

"ISOHaven" wrote in message
...
...and lets not leave out the fact that using a mobile cpu means less
processing power so it's going to take the cpu LONGER to compute thus
using MORE energy then you might think. This is why a real world study
would have to be done and we'll get nowhere here discussing this.

Utter nonsense... have you even looked at a Laptop in 5 years?


"ISOHaven" wrote in message
...
"I believe that's because you don't understand that using electricity
costs more than money."
I understand that just fine but you have not proven that using a mobile
cpu will actualy save anything versus a cheap AMD. Yes, now I'm saying
AMD which should have been said from the beging but someone mentioned P4
so we kept going with that.

"The CPU uses the most power."
"A mobile CPU will likely use 30W less."
"Multiply that by 1million machines and you're saving 30 megawatts."

Your conclusion is based on finctional purhcases. Your end result is
meaningless. You assume 1 million people would chose a mobile cpu over a
regular cpu in a desktop environment.



"Michael C" wrote in message
...
"ISOHaven" wrote in message
...
Not sure what your exact point was.

I believe that's because you don't understand that using electricity
costs more than money.

All you did was just put a laptop on someones desk. In that case then
this entire thread is BS. If you want a crappy HDD and you want a
crappy cd type drive and no expansion what-so-ever then YES your 60/30W
example will hold true. But then again just buy a friggen laptop and
use that instead of a desktop unit.

I'm not suggesting buying all low power parts, just the most power
hungry part of the computer.

BUT, that's not the case. The question at hand is building a DESKTOP
unit with a mobile processor that needs to run 12v cd type drives and
12v HDDs. So your 60/30W example goes right out the window. Sorry, try
again.

Not really. The CPU uses the most power (besides the monitor which can't
be reduced). A mobile CPU will likely use 30W less (I don't have the
exact figures). Multiply that by 1million machines and you're saving 30
megawatts.

Gargravarr,

A typical desktop computer draws about 60 Watts of power;

Is that accurate? I thought a p4 cpu on it's own used 60watts?

Want it to cost nothing?? Turn off a couple of incandescent lamps.
Same idea goes for every room that a PC is used in.
Throw away a few toasters, electric kettles and other useless
appliances and you'll actually *save* money.

Who the frig has incandescent lights these days? Energy saving lights
are $10 for a pack of 4, the most powerful light in my house is 13
watts. I'd have to turn off every light in my house off (typically I'd
have 4 to 6 lights on). And that assumes I'm using my PC at night!
Toasters and kettles use a ****load of power but only for short periods.

Granted the saving aren't that great but if motherboards came down in
price then it would be a worthwhile idea. For all I know the
motherboards are cheap anyway and someone here said the cpus cost a
small percentage more.

Michael

"ISOHaven" wrote in message
...
sell them at 10 bucks and the market will make itself
That's just plain idiotic.

You sell technology at that price and you don't think someone would
capitalize on it......again DElusional

How do you have something that hasn't been produced?
You are completly lost. Maybe instead of BSing earlier you could have be
apart of this dicusion enough to know what's going on. Hasn't been
produced? How many hundreds of thousands of people already own pentium 4s
and AMDs? You are completly lost.

That is NOT what you said.....and I noticed , along with everyone else, you
didn't quote yourself...good job.

case you forgot:


Do you argue the fact that what we have now will still need to be
produced?



Sure you can, no more hightest, (octane) no more muscle cars.
...And gas companies would do that why? Do you just talk, just to talk?
No point or reason to it at all????

Your joking right? They already have done this. octane levels (except for
aircraft) have been deminished dramatcally.


If they were to convert Mobile CPUs to work with desktops WHY would they
need to keep producing 'standard desktop' CPU's?
Wow, a real thinker here folks!!! THOUSANDS OF REASONS!!!!! But I'll
just give you one. No way in HELL would a mobile CPU run Outlook, other
office


Dude ! you are completely out of the loop. laptops run those and MUCH more.
I use one for design. Adobe's In- DESIGN one of the LARGEST resource
consuming softwares produced, Along with Illustrator and premier.
You have just shown that your guessing at all of this.


apps, graphics apps, SAP and windows itself and do it PRODUCTIVLY!!!! Do
you have any clue how many businesses run standard desktop machines? My
company can't afford what would be considered "workstation" level PCs. We
use hundreds of normal Intel desktop cpus. We have to run many apps for
our business. I don't care how expensive of a laptop I buy for our sales
guys they ALWAYS bitch and complain about how slow they are and they can't
run very many apps without it being an absolute bitch to work on. Yet at
the same time all our Pentium 4s run just fine.

Hey everyone this guy thinks Intel should just make one CPU and tell the
rest of the world to go to hell with their needs!!!! Is that about right
Mr. JAD?