Bootable XP USB?

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 19:27:09 -0500, Paul wrote:

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression here.

My MSDOS floppy, only boots into DOS. It has no other magical properties.

That I believe.


But once in there, I can run the setup application in the i386
folder, and start a WinXP installation. When you start a WinXP
installation, the first stage is "file copying", where the
files are moved from the install media, to the new C: partition.
Once that step is complete (and in this case, done while
DOS is running), the system can be rebooted and will then
start running from the contents of C:. Once it does so, it
continues with the installation, until all steps are finished.


I copied the content of my OS installation CD onto the USB. And then
tried an install of that OS, using its setup.exe. Quickly discovered
that the USB boots into DOS mode and that the OS setup.exe as well as
other executables are not executable in DOS.
Now what?

ApeMan



Only during the first stage of the installation, is my DOS
floppy running. After that, the hard drive can be used to finish
the job.

---- First stage, copies files, D: to C: ----
Running "D:\i386\winnt.exe" starts this...
+----------------------------+----------------------------------------+
| New C: partition (FAT32) | D:\i386 (holds files from a CD, FAT32) |
+----------------------------+----------------------------------------+

+----------------------+
| A: my MSDOS floppy |
+----------------------+

*******

You can boot WinXP from a USB hard drive - this requires modifications
to BootBusExtenders, to prevent problems with the USB bus disconnecting
in the middle of the boot process. And the resulting hard drive image,
isn't suited for sharing over multiple computers, because of the
Activation issues that would cause.

http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic116114.html

You can prepare a WinPE (Preinstall Environment) disc, such as BartPE.
I've used that to run programs, but you have to load the programs
onto the optical disc in a particular way (as it's not a full environment and
has limitations).

The WinXP CD itself, boots into recovery console, which is a DOS-like
environment suited to doing repair work on the hard drive partition.
But this too, is of limited value for general purpose work. You
couldn't run Word or Excel from there, for example.

HTH,
Paul

Ape wrote:
On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 19:27:09 -0500, Paul wrote:

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression here.

My MSDOS floppy, only boots into DOS. It has no other magical properties.

That I believe.

But once in there, I can run the setup application in the i386
folder, and start a WinXP installation. When you start a WinXP
installation, the first stage is "file copying", where the
files are moved from the install media, to the new C: partition.
Once that step is complete (and in this case, done while
DOS is running), the system can be rebooted and will then
start running from the contents of C:. Once it does so, it
continues with the installation, until all steps are finished.


I copied the content of my OS installation CD onto the USB. And then
tried an install of that OS, using its setup.exe. Quickly discovered
that the USB boots into DOS mode and that the OS setup.exe as well as
other executables are not executable in DOS.
Now what?

ApeMan

Did you try "winnt.exe" from the i386 folder. (Use whatever
drive letter your i386 folder is on. In this example, mine was D: )

D: --- change current working directory to D:
cd \ --- remove any bogus path from D
cd i386 --- Now, we'll be in D:\i386
winnt.exe --- This will try to run D:\i386\winnt.exe
Winnt could be the DOS compatible one,
while winnt32.exe is probably not DOS worthy.
HTH,
Paul


Only during the first stage of the installation, is my DOS
floppy running. After that, the hard drive can be used to finish
the job.

---- First stage, copies files, D: to C: ----
Running "D:\i386\winnt.exe" starts this...
+----------------------------+----------------------------------------+
| New C: partition (FAT32) | D:\i386 (holds files from a CD, FAT32) |
+----------------------------+----------------------------------------+

+----------------------+
| A: my MSDOS floppy |
+----------------------+

*******

You can boot WinXP from a USB hard drive - this requires modifications
to BootBusExtenders, to prevent problems with the USB bus disconnecting
in the middle of the boot process. And the resulting hard drive image,
isn't suited for sharing over multiple computers, because of the
Activation issues that would cause.

http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic116114.html

You can prepare a WinPE (Preinstall Environment) disc, such as BartPE.
I've used that to run programs, but you have to load the programs
onto the optical disc in a particular way (as it's not a full environment and
has limitations).

The WinXP CD itself, boots into recovery console, which is a DOS-like
environment suited to doing repair work on the hard drive partition.
But this too, is of limited value for general purpose work. You
couldn't run Word or Excel from there, for example.

HTH,
Paul

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 15:13:30 -0500, Paul wrote:


Did you try "winnt.exe" from the i386 folder. (Use whatever
drive letter your i386 folder is on. In this example, mine was D: )

D: --- change current working directory to D:
cd \ --- remove any bogus path from D
cd i386 --- Now, we'll be in D:\i386
winnt.exe --- This will try to run D:\i386\winnt.exe
Winnt could be the DOS compatible one,
while winnt32.exe is probably not DOS worthy.
HTH,
Paul

Yes, but no luck. Needs some system setup to make it go - smartdrv,
mscdex, micron, etc. In an effort to do that, I now have an
autoexec,bat file that came from one of the google results I found for
making a bootable UDB. It contains:

@echo off
mscdex /d:Micron /m:10 /l:R
set cddrive=R:
call mouse.bat

I can't interpret what mscdex /d:Micron /m:10 /l:R means. Can you
interpret this line and if and what I need to make it work? Paul?

Should I download micron in some form? I can't find same.

I also have a config.sys file containing:

;DVD/CD-ROM/R/RW Boot Diskette
;created 12-01-98

;[common]
lastdrive=z
device=HIMEM.SYS /testmemff
device=emm386.exe noems
;device=ramdrive.sys 1024 /e
dos=high,umb
files=60
buffers=30
stacks=9,256

[Menu]
menucolor=15,1
menuitem=SCSI,For systems with an Adaptec UW (SCSI) CD or DVD
menuitem=LVD,For systems with an Adaptec U2 (LVD) CD or DVD
menuitem=IDE,For systems with an IDE/Atapi CD or DVD (Default)
menudefault=IDE,0
;set menu default to IDE and by pass menu change "0" to = number of
seconds

[SCSI]
devicehigh=cdrom\aspi8dos.sys /d
devicehigh=cdrom\aspi8cd.sys /d:Micron
;set cdrom=Micron

[LVD]
device=cdrom\ASPI8U2.SYS /d:Micron
DEVICE=cdrom\ASPICD.SYS /D:Micron
;set cdrom=Micron

[IDE]
devicehigh=cdrom\oakcdrom.sys /d:Micron
;set cdrom=Micron

;[common]
SET ENDFLAG=1
;Flag to denote the end of the config.sys file.

I see 'micron' throughout it also. Maybe you could
interpret/sanitize/correct this config.sys file for me also?

If not, just say so, and I will struggle on further by myself in this
wasteland.

Thanks
ApeMan

Only during the first stage of the installation, is my DOS
floppy running. After that, the hard drive can be used to finish
the job.

---- First stage, copies files, D: to C: ----
Running "D:\i386\winnt.exe" starts this...
+----------------------------+----------------------------------------+
| New C: partition (FAT32) | D:\i386 (holds files from a CD, FAT32) |
+----------------------------+----------------------------------------+

+----------------------+
| A: my MSDOS floppy |
+----------------------+

*******

You can boot WinXP from a USB hard drive - this requires modifications
to BootBusExtenders, to prevent problems with the USB bus disconnecting
in the middle of the boot process. And the resulting hard drive image,
isn't suited for sharing over multiple computers, because of the
Activation issues that would cause.

http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic116114.html

You can prepare a WinPE (Preinstall Environment) disc, such as BartPE.
I've used that to run programs, but you have to load the programs
onto the optical disc in a particular way (as it's not a full environment and
has limitations).

The WinXP CD itself, boots into recovery console, which is a DOS-like
environment suited to doing repair work on the hard drive partition.
But this too, is of limited value for general purpose work. You
couldn't run Word or Excel from there, for example.

HTH,
Paul

Ape wrote:
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 15:13:30 -0500, Paul wrote:


... D:\i386\winnt.exe

Winnt could be the DOS compatible one,
while winnt32.exe is probably not DOS worthy.


Yes, but no luck. Needs some system setup to make it go - smartdrv,
mscdex, micron, etc. In an effort to do that, I now have an
autoexec,bat file that came from one of the google results I found for
making a bootable UDB. It contains:

@echo off
mscdex /d:Micron /m:10 /l:R
set cddrive=R:
call mouse.bat

I can't interpret what mscdex /d:Micron /m:10 /l:R means. Can you
interpret this line and if and what I need to make it work? Paul?

Should I download micron in some form? I can't find same.

I also have a config.sys file containing:

;DVD/CD-ROM/R/RW Boot Diskette
;created 12-01-98

;[common]
lastdrive=z
device=HIMEM.SYS /testmemff
device=emm386.exe noems
;device=ramdrive.sys 1024 /e
dos=high,umb
files=60
buffers=30
stacks=9,256

[Menu]
menucolor=15,1
menuitem=SCSI,For systems with an Adaptec UW (SCSI) CD or DVD
menuitem=LVD,For systems with an Adaptec U2 (LVD) CD or DVD
menuitem=IDE,For systems with an IDE/Atapi CD or DVD (Default)
menudefault=IDE,0
;set menu default to IDE and by pass menu change "0" to = number of
seconds

[SCSI]
devicehigh=cdrom\aspi8dos.sys /d
devicehigh=cdrom\aspi8cd.sys /d:Micron
;set cdrom=Micron

[LVD]
device=cdrom\ASPI8U2.SYS /d:Micron
DEVICE=cdrom\ASPICD.SYS /D:Micron
;set cdrom=Micron

[IDE]
devicehigh=cdrom\oakcdrom.sys /d:Micron
;set cdrom=Micron

;[common]
SET ENDFLAG=1
;Flag to denote the end of the config.sys file.

I see 'micron' throughout it also. Maybe you could
interpret/sanitize/correct this config.sys file for me also?

If not, just say so, and I will struggle on further by myself in this
wasteland.

Thanks
ApeMan

This page has "mscdex" information. mscdex /d:Micron /m:10 /l:R

http://www.vfrazee.com/ms-dos/6.22/help/

MSCDEX /D:driver [/D:driver2... ] [/E] [/K] [/S] [/V] [/L:letter] [/M:number]

The MSCDEX command must include at least one /D switch. To install
additional CD-ROM device drivers, specify an additional /D switch for
each device driver.

/E Specifies that the CD-ROM driver be allowed to use expanded memory, if
available, to store sector buffers.

/K recognize CD-ROM volumes encoded in Kanji

/S Enables sharing of CD-ROM drives on MS-NET

/V Directs MSCDEX to display memory statistics

/L:letter Specifies the drive letter

/M:number Specifies the number of sector buffers.

My "CONFIG.SYS" file has this driver line

DEVICE?=XCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD001

while my "AUTOEXEC.BAT" file contains

mscdex /D:MSCD001 /L:R

which means the XCDROM driver loads first and "registers" MSCD001.
And then, the autoexec picks up the CDROM via the /D switch in mscdex.
You can make up any identifier you want, as long as the two statements
agree on the value. That's my guess as to how it works. The string
should remain at eight characters or less.

Your "Micron" identifier then, would be defined in CONFIG.SYS,
along with a CDROM driver. The "oakcdrom.sys" probably came with MSDOS.
The XCDROM.SYS I use, I got that off the net a number of years ago.

Do you actually need to put CDROM support in your MSDOS
floppy ? I didn't put it in mine, when installing WinXP.
My set of CDROM drivers, is for other occasions. When the
install started, my i386 folder was staged (already copied over)
on the FAT32 D: partition of my hard drive.

*******

There are different flavors of DOS. MSDOS has many releases,
and my copy for the floppy, came from Windows 98SE by doing a "sys"
command. That gave the three basic files. I'd copy things like oakcdrom.sys
off the Win98SE C: drive. But things like XCDROM.sys came off the network,
and that is third party code. More than one driver is needed, to help handle
a wide range of optical drives (you find out, when you test them).

If you're using FreeDOS, you'd want to check the FreeDOS site, to see
if they support FAT32. I expect they would.

When you get a later release of MSDOS, it has support for FAT32. Perhaps
if you go back far enough, it might be limited to FAT16 or FAT12 etc. You
need FAT32, to be able to handle a decent sized hard drive, for the install.
While they make an NTFS driver for MSDOS, the one I tried didn't support
long file names, and is useless for repair tasks. So if I was to install
WinXP again using the MSDOS floppy method, I'd still be preparing blank
FAT32 partitions for it to use during the installation.

*******

MSDOS has "Extended" and "Expanded" RAM, as well as the memory area
below 640K. If you want to run things like SMARTDRV, like I was
experimenting with, I used 32 megabytes of memory for the cache.
And that cannot come from below 640K, which means my floppy
has to define some kind of Extended or Expanded support. Same
would go for things like RAMDRIVEs. Typically, tools like Seagate
Seatools for DOS, specify a RAMDRIVE, as a container to hold their
uncompressed disk testing program. The RAMDRIVE allows a storage
device larger than a floppy to exist while MSDOS is running
(and without stealing space from any hard drives present).

I don't pretend to know all the nuances of Extended and Expanded.
I just tinkered with my setup, until it started working.

I don't think Extended or Expanded, is used to get those two
lines above, working for a CDROM. If you needed to access a CD,
chances are the driver can live in the 640K space.

I still think a basic MSDOS disk would work, as long as the
version of DOS supports FAT32. It just takes longer, if
you don't have SMARTDRV set up. Without SMARTDRV, it copies
a file every two or three seconds, rather than as fast as the
drive can go. The time is wasted, doing a "dir" over and
over again, and listing the 5000 files in i386 and finding
the one to copy. Something like that. Even SMARTDRV isn't
perfect, and every once in a while, the cache in memory
(32 megabytes worth) seems to get purged - then there is a
delay for a few seconds, while it does a "dir" and sees
all the files again. It can't seem to keep directory information
resident while the system is running.

*******

The MSDOS floppy is not the only way to do this. For example,
if you could find a way to put BartPE on a USB stick, that might
be another way to do it. At the time I installed WinXP, I didn't
even know about BartPE. It's another area you might research - I
don't know for sure whether it would work or not, but it is
another "Preboot Environment". Microsoft also has a six floppy
set, used for booting systems before installing, but that floppy
set probably couldn't easily be converted to a USB stick, and
even if you did, all that floppy set does, is eventually start
reading the install CDROM. I'm not sure you can even use it
to grab files of another kind of hard drive. And in any case,
the six floppy boot set from Microsoft, is only available for
WinXP SP1 or WinXP SP2 installation. When I checked, there was
no six floppy set for SP3, and when I tried the six floppy set for
SP2, it refuses to even take a sniff of my legit WinXP SP3 CD.
So I wouldn't even waste my time now, trying to find that
Microsoft web page again. It would be a waste of time.

*******

I'm using the fact that the "HP Formatter" for USB sticks,
comes with FreeDOS files, as proof that MSDOS can boot
from a USB stick.

*******

On my motherboard, I was getting hangs, until I adjusted
some range to not be used in the 640K space. It took many
reboots to define valid values for "X=" in this line from
CONFIG.SYS. Only my VIA chipset needed this. The Intel
chipset didn't seem to mind as much. I can't even remember
how I narrowed it down to this statement, as breaking things.
Perhaps that's why I put the "?" after each DEVICE call,
so I'd be able to see what line in the file was causing it
to get stuck. I think my floppy light just stayed on, when
it hit this line and bad values were present. Good fun.
I learned a lot, about rebooting... It's boring.

DEVICE?=EMM386.EXE NOEMS X=A000-CFFF

Paul

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:31:53 -0500, Paul wrote:


This page has "mscdex" information. mscdex /d:Micron /m:10 /l:R

http://www.vfrazee.com/ms-dos/6.22/help/

MSCDEX /D:driver [/D:driver2... ] [/E] [/K] [/S] [/V] [/L:letter] [/M:number]

The MSCDEX command must include at least one /D switch. To install
additional CD-ROM device drivers, specify an additional /D switch for
each device driver.

/E Specifies that the CD-ROM driver be allowed to use expanded memory, if
available, to store sector buffers.

/K recognize CD-ROM volumes encoded in Kanji

/S Enables sharing of CD-ROM drives on MS-NET

/V Directs MSCDEX to display memory statistics

/L:letter Specifies the drive letter

/M:number Specifies the number of sector buffers.

My "CONFIG.SYS" file has this driver line

DEVICE?=XCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD001

while my "AUTOEXEC.BAT" file contains

mscdex /D:MSCD001 /L:R

which means the XCDROM driver loads first and "registers" MSCD001.
And then, the autoexec picks up the CDROM via the /D switch in mscdex.
You can make up any identifier you want, as long as the two statements
agree on the value. That's my guess as to how it works. The string
should remain at eight characters or less.

Your "Micron" identifier then, would be defined in CONFIG.SYS,
along with a CDROM driver. The "oakcdrom.sys" probably came with MSDOS.
The XCDROM.SYS I use, I got that off the net a number of years ago.

Do you actually need to put CDROM support in your MSDOS
floppy ?

I wouldn't think so. I am not using a floppy. Just a USB flash drive
that I am trying to make bootable.


I didn't put it in mine, when installing WinXP.
My set of CDROM drivers, is for other occasions. When the
install started, my i386 folder was staged (already copied over)
on the FAT32 D: partition of my hard drive.

I already have my i386 folder already copied over onto the USB flash
drive.


*******

There are different flavors of DOS. MSDOS has many releases,
and my copy for the floppy, came from Windows 98SE by doing a "sys"
command. That gave the three basic files. I'd copy things like oakcdrom.sys
off the Win98SE C: drive. But things like XCDROM.sys came off the network,
and that is third party code. More than one driver is needed, to help handle
a wide range of optical drives (you find out, when you test them).

If you're using FreeDOS, you'd want to check the FreeDOS site, to see
if they support FAT32. I expect they would.

When you get a later release of MSDOS, it has support for FAT32. Perhaps
if you go back far enough, it might be limited to FAT16 or FAT12 etc. You
need FAT32, to be able to handle a decent sized hard drive, for the install.
While they make an NTFS driver for MSDOS, the one I tried didn't support
long file names, and is useless for repair tasks. So if I was to install
WinXP again using the MSDOS floppy method, I'd still be preparing blank
FAT32 partitions for it to use during the installation.

Actually, before I copied any autoexec.bat or config.sys file to the
USB flash drive, I first formatted it, and loaded files on it, using
HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool. Then I copied the i386 folder to the
flash drive from the XP install CD. Then I tried a few autoexec.bat
and config.sys files from some old W98 installation floppies that have
from the past. This desktop does NOT have a floppy drive, so I did
this last copy on another desktop that does, then used my LAN to
convey them to this desktop and its flash drive.

Today, I looked, and the flash drive's properties says FAT32.


*******

MSDOS has "Extended" and "Expanded" RAM, as well as the memory area
below 640K. If you want to run things like SMARTDRV, like I was
experimenting with, I used 32 megabytes of memory for the cache.
And that cannot come from below 640K, which means my floppy
has to define some kind of Extended or Expanded support. Same
would go for things like RAMDRIVEs. Typically, tools like Seagate
Seatools for DOS, specify a RAMDRIVE, as a container to hold their
uncompressed disk testing program. The RAMDRIVE allows a storage
device larger than a floppy to exist while MSDOS is running
(and without stealing space from any hard drives present).

I don't pretend to know all the nuances of Extended and Expanded.
I just tinkered with my setup, until it started working.

I don't think Extended or Expanded, is used to get those two
lines above, working for a CDROM. If you needed to access a CD,
chances are the driver can live in the 640K space.

As I said, I don't. At least not until XP is finished being
installed.


I still think a basic MSDOS disk would work, as long as the
version of DOS supports FAT32. It just takes longer, if
you don't have SMARTDRV set up. Without SMARTDRV, it copies
a file every two or three seconds, rather than as fast as the
drive can go. The time is wasted, doing a "dir" over and
over again, and listing the 5000 files in i386 and finding
the one to copy. Something like that. Even SMARTDRV isn't
perfect, and every once in a while, the cache in memory
(32 megabytes worth) seems to get purged - then there is a
delay for a few seconds, while it does a "dir" and sees
all the files again. It can't seem to keep directory information
resident while the system is running.

I remember reading on the web of a user who tried all this without
SMARTDRV, and it was unworkably slow, to the point where he finally
quit, because it hung. I guess I still could try not using SMARTDRV.



*******

The MSDOS floppy is not the only way to do this. For example,
if you could find a way to put BartPE on a USB stick, that might
be another way to do it. At the time I installed WinXP, I didn't
even know about BartPE. It's another area you might research - I
don't know for sure whether it would work or not, but it is
another "Preboot Environment". Microsoft also has a six floppy
set, used for booting systems before installing, but that floppy
set probably couldn't easily be converted to a USB stick, and
even if you did, all that floppy set does, is eventually start
reading the install CDROM. I'm not sure you can even use it
to grab files of another kind of hard drive. And in any case,
the six floppy boot set from Microsoft, is only available for
WinXP SP1 or WinXP SP2 installation. When I checked, there was
no six floppy set for SP3, and when I tried the six floppy set for
SP2, it refuses to even take a sniff of my legit WinXP SP3 CD.
So I wouldn't even waste my time now, trying to find that
Microsoft web page again. It would be a waste of time.

I remember a 6 floppy set somewhere in my past. Without a floppy
drive, I think that would be of no use anyway.


*******

I'm using the fact that the "HP Formatter" for USB sticks,
comes with FreeDOS files, as proof that MSDOS can boot
from a USB stick.

*******

On my motherboard, I was getting hangs, until I adjusted
some range to not be used in the 640K space. It took many
reboots to define valid values for "X=" in this line from
CONFIG.SYS. Only my VIA chipset needed this. The Intel
chipset didn't seem to mind as much. I can't even remember
how I narrowed it down to this statement, as breaking things.
Perhaps that's why I put the "?" after each DEVICE call,
so I'd be able to see what line in the file was causing it
to get stuck. I think my floppy light just stayed on, when
it hit this line and bad values were present. Good fun.
I learned a lot, about rebooting... It's boring.

DEVICE?=EMM386.EXE NOEMS X=A000-CFFF

Paul

Thanks again Paul

ApeMan

Paul -

I decided to try a different route, and used PEBUILDER3110A's PE2USB.
It did not work for me. The result USB would not boot. It contains:

bartpe.iso
ntldr
ntdetect.com
winnt.slf


Does that seem right to you?

The 145MB iso file contains the i386 folder and other folders/files.
Shouldn't it be decompressed?

Not sure what to try next.

ApeMan

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:35:56 -0500, Ape wrote:

Paul -

I decided to try a different route, and used PEBUILDER3110A's PE2USB.
It did not work for me. The result USB would not boot. It contains:

bartpe.iso
ntldr
ntdetect.com
winnt.slf


Does that seem right to you?

The 145MB iso file contains the i386 folder and other folders/files.
Shouldn't it be decompressed?

Not sure what to try next.

ApeMan

I decompressed the ISO file and copied all of the files/folders to the
USB. Same result - no boot.

I am cursed I guess.

ApeMan

Ape wrote:
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:35:56 -0500, Ape wrote:

Paul -

I decided to try a different route, and used PEBUILDER3110A's PE2USB.
It did not work for me. The result USB would not boot. It contains:

bartpe.iso
ntldr
ntdetect.com
winnt.slf


Does that seem right to you?

The 145MB iso file contains the i386 folder and other folders/files.
Shouldn't it be decompressed?

Not sure what to try next.

ApeMan

I decompressed the ISO file and copied all of the files/folders to the
USB. Same result - no boot.

I am cursed I guess.

ApeMan

I've still been working on your problem. Just a few false starts,
like a tool that claimed to do this "easily", and when I loaded it
into a VM for safety, it said basically "sorry, you need WinXP or later
to run this". And I wasted time setting up an environment to run it
and everything (just not WinXP).

Still, I did have some success a few minutes ago. Basically, using this
method, I was able to get the WinXP installer screen to show up on
my computer. (I didn't actually do the install, but stopped at that
point and did a control-alt-delete to reboot.)

I decided on this method, as my own idea, rather than off some
web site. I was thinking about "what other bootable things do
I have around here", and I remembered the Windows 7 recovery CD.
But rather than start with that, I decided to use a Windows 7 installer
DVD instead. The installer DVD, also has the recovery features of the
smaller recovery CD. The recovery CD, if you download it off the
net (via BitTorrent for example), is around 200MB. On the other hand,
if you download a Microsoft Windows 7 SP1 installer DVD, that comes
from an official download site (digitalriver for example, which is
a company that sells software for download). Then, the download is
around 3GB (sizes listed below). The download links for this purpose,
are open, and not gated by credit cards and the like. Links have been
listed before, but Microsoft tries to have the links deleted, thinking that
somehow this will prevent people from finding them.

I have two images I got, using this method. (These are no good without
a license key, so they're otherwise worthless. But I store things like
this, for reference purposes, taking them apart to see what files are
in there, and so on.) I selected these, to be the closest match to
the software on my laptop. My laptop is actually the x64 install, but
there are reasons to keep the other one, which may become apparent in
a moment. If my laptop drive dies some day, these images along with
the key on the label on the laptop, may allow me to reinstall.

Original name = X17-24209.iso
Name on my hard drive = X17-24209__64-bit Windows 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 (bootable).iso
3,319,478,272 bytes MD5sum = 971843a457b6e0db0af61258cbe7256a

Original name = X17-24208.iso
Name on my hard drive = X17-24208__32-bit Windows 7 Home Premium x86 SP1 (bootable).iso
2,563,039,232 bytes MD5sum = c5bb99b2f1a9e7a5b4fbc6e3eff70882

Now, the other tool, is also part of the software download experience
(credit card software purchase, download only model). This tool
converts the ISO9660 file you download from digitalriver or elsewhere,
into a USB stick.

Windows7-USB-DVD-tool.exe
2,721,168 bytes ND5sum = af911be206423bf440ea9d4df075a632

You should be able to get that tool, here.

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/...usbdvd_dwnTool

Now, that is one strange tool, in that it doesn't install in the
Program Files folder. It installs itself in the Documents and Settings tree.

The tool has one downfall. To make the USB stick bootable, it uses
the utility "bootsect.exe" (available on Windows 7 install DVDs or
on a Windows 7 computer). There is a copy of this, inside X17-24208.iso.
I think the tool extracts bootsect.exe when it needs to use the tool,
instead of having a copy of bootsect accompanying the tool download.
This is pretty stupid. The thing is, on my WinXP machine, which is 32 bit,
only a 32 bit version of bootsect.exe is going to run. If I were to
run the "Windows7-USB-DVD-tool" and feed it "X17-24209.iso", step 4
will fail and the USB stick won't be bootable. That's because the
64 bit version of bootsect.exe it extracts, won't run in WinXP (my machine).

This is why, for this experiment, I used the X17-24208.iso file, knowing
the limitations of the Windows7-USB-DVD-tool.exe tool. Both of them
are 32 bit and agree with my 32 bit OS, so the bootsect.exe is successfully
(temporarily) extracted and run. There is nothing particularly magic about
this - if you had a copy of a bootsect from some Windows 7 disc, you could
manually do the bootsect step. The parameters you pass to bootsect,
aren't that tricky.

OK, you run the tool and feed it the X17-24208.iso. It copies the
contents of the ISO, onto the USB stick, then as step 4, it
runs bootsect and finishes the job. The progress bar will be
green in color if it works, or sorta orange if it fails.

Now we have a USB stick that boots. I used my 8GB flash, and I think
the last time I checked, it used about 2.4GB or so of it.

Next step, is to just copy the i386 folder from the WinXP CD, onto
the newly minted USB stick, on the top level.

So this recipe has annoyingly large downloads, but simple execution.

When I'm ready to boot that, I press F8 on my Asus motherboard, to
bring up the BIOS popup boot menu, and in there, I can select the
USB key to boot from.

OK, now you're ready to install WinXP :-)

When you boot the USB stick, it looks like this. Humor it, and
pretend to be installing Windows 7. Click the Next button.

http://cloud.addictivetips.com/wp-co...screenboot.jpg

On the next screen, it says "Install Now", but you don't want to do that.
In the lower left hand corner, is a "Repair your computer".

In your case, with no Vista or Win7 OS present, the menu here will be
empty. Don't panic. It takes time for the scan to check for these
OSes, and if you have disks with a lot of files, it can take several
minutes. Click the upper button "Use recovery tools..." when it
lets you.

http://cdn.nirmaltv.com/images/SystemRecovery.png

OK, this is where it pays off. Finally, the recovery menu.
Select "Command Prompt". This looks a lot like MSDOS (hehehe).
But it is not actually the same thing. You'll see how that
makes a slight difference in a moment.

http://cdn.nirmaltv.com/images/Recoverytool.png

The next window (not shown), is an MSDOS prompt. You'll
be sitting in a current working directory of "X:". I think
that is a ramdisk based partition, with the recovery environment in it.

Now comes the fun part. The i386 folder you copied onto the USB flash,
is not in X: ! It is in some other partition letter. I had to sequentially
try partitions, until I found it, like this.

c:
dir i386
d:
dir i386
...
k:
dir i386

I actually had to go all the way up to the letter k: , before I found
the i386 folder with the WinXP files in it. And that's because my machine
has eight other drive letters on two hard drives. (To aid in your search,
you could dump a file with a name like "PICKME.TXT" into the USB
stick, to make it easier to recognize the correct drive letter to use.
You'd do "dir PICKME.txt" until it found a copy.

Once I found K:, the rest was simple

k:
cd \
cd i386
winnt32.exe

Notice, in this case, we use winnt32.exe instead of winnt.exe.
The winnt.exe is for "true DOS, non 32 bit" environments,
while the winnt32.exe is for 32 bit environments. Apparently
the Windows 7 recovery thing is 32 bit.

Now, I'm looking at a WinXP installer screen.

I stopped at this point and moved on.

Good luck,
Paul

On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 03:52:42 -0500, Paul wrote:

\
Now, I'm looking at a WinXP installer screen.

I stopped at this point and moved on.

Good luck,
Paul

Your reply greeted me this morning. Upon my first read, all I can say
right now is 'Holy Mackerel Annie!'.

You sure did a lot of work - I appreciate it. I will try to digest
and apply what you said and did. Thanks.

ApeMan

Ape wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 03:52:42 -0500, Paul wrote:

\
Now, I'm looking at a WinXP installer screen.

I stopped at this point and moved on.

Good luck,
Paul

Your reply greeted me this morning. Upon my first read, all I can say
right now is 'Holy Mackerel Annie!'.

You sure did a lot of work - I appreciate it. I will try to digest
and apply what you said and did. Thanks.

ApeMan

I did some more testing, and while the WinXP installer screen
comes up OK, things don't work normally after that. I hope
you haven't wasted to much time on this.

What I'm finding, is the USB key is being treated as if it's
an existing OS installation. My WinXP OEM CD is not supposed to
"upgrade" a computer, only "clean install".

I think normally, what would happen, is a $WIN_NT$.~BT and $WIN_NT$.~LS
folders are created on the target partition. One is a boot environment,
and the other has the (copied) install files. When I tried to
use the USB key with the 3GB of stuff on it, one of the folders
went to the target partition, the other ended up on the USB key!

On a reboot, the USB key ends up with an additional boot menu
item (something about "WinXP Setup"). This looked like a positive
thing - I was thinking, if I tried to install from that, that is
very close to what an install CD would do. But if I try that,
I end up stuck in a "loop". The target disk won't boot, and
using the USB key, it does the first stage of installation
again (which I don't want).

*******

One reason I tried this route, is because I could see how the
BartPE idea wasn't going to work out. There would be a
conflict, between the i386 folder BartPE uses, and the i386 folder
we'd need for a WinXP install. They can't be dumped into the same
folder. And to get around that, I'd need to figure out a way to
create a second partition within the BartPE RAMDisk or the like.
And even if I did that, there is also a danger the drive letters
would end up wrong for it to work anyway (sorta like the mess
the method above ends up in).

Microsoft makes tools like "WAIK", and there are several versions
released over the years. The tutorial I saw on this, looked
pretty complicated, and I didn't immediately see how this
tool would result in a usable USB key. But it's a tool that
IT people use.

http://www.microsoft.com/download/en...ng=en&id=10333

I've got some more experiments to try, but for the time being,
if you haven't wasted the time getting the DVD image, don't bother.
To me, I don't see how I can whip that thing into shape.
If I have more positive results, I'll post back.

One reason the MSDOS floppy works (i.e. the install I did to get
this machine running), is because it doesn't have a "WINDOWS" folder,
and so the installer doesn't freak out thinking there is already a
version of Windows on the machine. I suspect that's why the USB key
is copying one of the two temp folders, into the wrong partition.
(And in case you're thinking "just move the folder where they need to
go", I'm not convinced the processing of the files in there, completely
properly. The boot loader is looking for HAL.dll for example, and the
only file I can find is HAL.dl_ which is the compressed version of
HAL.dll. So whatever the installer was doing when it exited, it
didn't finish.)

Paul