RAID-1 and bad sectors?

On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 20:10:05 +1100, "Rod Speed" wrote:

wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I also need to determine how BootItNG
deals with writing data to bad sectors,

The hard drive should handle that behind BootItNG's back.

and how Windows deals with reading and writing data from bad sectors.

The hard drive should handle the writing behind Win's back.

So the hard drive will detect a bad sector and then
find a good sector to which to write the data?

Yes.

Based on what Chuck F. said, the hard drive will just
write the data to whichever sector, even if its bad.

Its more complicated than that.

Could you elaborate? Seems like you and Chuck F. have made contradictory
statements.


What will the SMART data tell me?

Basically confirm that the drive is dying.

Seems like a safe assumption.

It aint about assumptions. You can get what
appear to be bad sectors for other reasons.

But all those "ecc errors" indicate my drive is defective in some way, no?

wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
Rod Speed wrote
wrote
Chuck F. wrote:
wrote

I also need to determine how BootItNG
deals with writing data to bad sectors,

The hard drive should handle that behind BootItNG's back.

and how Windows deals with reading
and writing data from bad sectors.

The hard drive should handle the writing behind Win's back.

So the hard drive will detect a bad sector and then
find a good sector to which to write the data?

Yes.

Based on what Chuck F. said, the hard drive will just
write the data to whichever sector, even if its bad.

Its more complicated than that.

Could you elaborate?

You can get what appear to be bad sectors at a superficial
look due to a bad cable or bad controller outside the drive.

Seems like you and Chuck F. have made contradictory statements.

What he said was

I just used BootItNG to resize the 2 NTFS partitions on my
hard disk. I was increasing the size of the C drive, so I had
to shrink the D drive and slide it down to the end of the disk.
When I did the slide operation, I told it to slide everything
including the unused areas. I ended up getting an "error
reading from hard disk" message. So I retried the slide
operation, but just told it to slide the data only. That worked,
so maybe there was a bad sector in an unused area?

Which may mean that you wrote some of your actual data
into a failing "unused" area, and that that data is now lost
or altered. I wouldn't trust anything that was on that partition.

There's no conflict with what I said. I never said that the drive
will always be able to ensure that no data is lost, most obviously
when it doesnt check that the write was successful, or when the
write worked and it cant be read successfully after that.

What will the SMART data tell me?

Basically confirm that the drive is dying.

Seems like a safe assumption.

It aint about assumptions. You can get what
appear to be bad sectors for other reasons.

But all those "ecc errors" indicate my
drive is defective in some way, no?

Yes. I just meant that it aint about assumptions, clearly the
drive has a problem and the SMART data would confirm that.

I can try the knoppix cd you suggested. So I just boot up with it, and from
the console type "smartctl -a /dev/???" Will my hard drive already be mounted
as /dev/hdX? Or do I have to mount it myself (not sure how to do that)...
Also how do I save the output so that I can boot back into Windows and paste
it into a post for you? Thanks...

wrote

I can try the knoppix cd you suggested. So I just boot up
with it, and from the console type "smartctl -a /dev/???"

Yes, basically.

Will my hard drive already be mounted as /dev/hdX?

Yes, and you can see what it gets mounted as when knoppix has booted.

Or do I have to mount it myself (not sure how to do that)...

No need.

Also how do I save the output so that I can boot
back into Windows and paste it into a post for you?

Use the traditional approach, append filename.log to the command, so
smartctl -a /dev/??? filename.log

Rather than trying to specify where to put that, just do it like that
and then search using one of the searchers that knoppix has and
then cut and paste using one of the guis to where you want it.
I normally just paste it across the network to the system I am
using the usenet client on.

Here's the output (btw, that knoppix cd is pretty cool)... looks like there
are some errors. Would this indicate that there's definitely something wrong
with the disk, as opposed to a possible cable or controller problem that you
mentioned?



smartctl version 5.32 Copyright (C) 2002-4 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Device Model: SAMSUNG SP1213N
Firmware Version: TL100-24
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: 7
ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0
Local Time is: Tue Jan 3 03:34:02 2006 EST
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x00) Offline data collection activity
was never started.
Auto Offline Data Collection:
Disabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine
completed
without error or no self-test has ever
been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: (4320) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: (0x1b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
Auto Offline data collection on/off
support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
No Conveyance Self-test supported.
No Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
No General Purpose Logging support.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 1) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 72) minutes.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED
WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000b 100 100 051 Pre-fail Always
- 0
3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0007 065 065 000 Pre-fail Always
- 6016
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 4
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 253 253 010 Pre-fail Always
- 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000b 253 253 051 Pre-fail Always
- 0
8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0024 253 253 000 Old_age Offline
- 0
9 Power_On_Half_Minutes 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 1011h+58m
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 253 253 049 Pre-fail Always
- 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 3
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 157 148 000 Old_age Always
- 27
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x000a 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 7356760
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 1
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0033 253 253 010 Pre-fail Always
- 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0031 100 100 010 Pre-fail Offline
- 1
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x000b 100 100 051 Pre-fail Always
- 0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x000b 100 100 051 Pre-fail Always
- 0
201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate 0x000b 253 253 051 Pre-fail Always
- 0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
ATA Error Count: 69 (device log contains only the most recent five errors)
CR = Command Register [HEX]
FR = Features Register [HEX]
SC = Sector Count Register [HEX]
SN = Sector Number Register [HEX]
CL = Cylinder Low Register [HEX]
CH = Cylinder High Register [HEX]
DH = Device/Head Register [HEX]
DC = Device Command Register [HEX]
ER = Error register [HEX]
ST = Status register [HEX]
Powered_Up_Time is measured from power on, and printed as
DDd+hh:mm:SS.sss where DD=days, hh=hours, mm=minutes,
SS=sec, and sss=millisec. It "wraps" after 49.710 days.

Error 69 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or
idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:51.875 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:51.875 SET FEATURES [Set transfer mode]
c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:51.875 SET MULTIPLE MODE
00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:51.813 NOP [Reserved subcommand]

Error 68 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or
idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:46.250 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:46.250 SET FEATURES [Set transfer mode]
c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:46.250 SET MULTIPLE MODE
00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:46.250 NOP [Reserved subcommand]

Error 67 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or
idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:40.688 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:40.688 SET FEATURES [Set transfer mode]
c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:40.688 SET MULTIPLE MODE
00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:40.625 NOP [Reserved subcommand]

Error 66 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or
idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:35.063 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:35.063 SET FEATURES [Set transfer mode]
c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:35.063 SET MULTIPLE MODE
00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:35.000 NOP [Reserved subcommand]
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:34.938 SET FEATURES [Set transfer mode]

Error 65 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or
idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:29.313 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:29.313 SET FEATURES [Set transfer mode]
c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:29.313 SET MULTIPLE MODE
00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:29.313 NOP [Reserved subcommand]

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
No self-tests have been logged. [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]


Device does not support Selective Self Tests/Logging

wrote:

Here's the output (btw, that knoppix cd is pretty cool)...

Yeah, its pretty decent in this situation.

looks like there are some errors.

Yes, but nothing to worry about. Comments added in the output.

Would this indicate that there's definitely
something wrong with the disk,

No, the disk looks fine.

as opposed to a possible cable or
controller problem that you mentioned?

Doesnt look like a cable problem either, that should
show up in the UDMA_CRC_Error_Count and its perfect.

smartctl version 5.32 Copyright (C) 2002-4 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Device Model: SAMSUNG SP1213N
Firmware Version: TL100-24
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: 7
ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0
Local Time is: Tue Jan 3 03:34:02 2006 EST
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x00) Offline data collection
activity
was never started.
Auto Offline Data Collection:
Disabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine
completed
without error or no self-test has ever
been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: (4320) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: (0x1b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
Auto Offline data collection on/off
support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
No Conveyance Self-test supported.
No Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before
entering power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
No General Purpose Logging support.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 1) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 72) minutes.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000b 100 100 051 Pre-fail
Always - 0
3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0007 065 065 000 Pre-fail
Always - 6016
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 4
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 253 253 010 Pre-fail
Always - 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000b 253 253 051 Pre-fail
Always - 0
8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0024 253 253 000 Old_age
Offline - 0
9 Power_On_Half_Minutes 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 1011h+58m
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 253 253 049 Pre-fail
Always - 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 3
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 157 148 000 Old_age
Always - 27
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x000a 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 7356760

Thats normal with samsungs, just information, no indication of a problem.

196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 1

That is saying that that has been just one reallocated sector.

Thats fine, nothing to worry about.

197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0033 253 253 010 Pre-fail
Always - 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0031 100 100 010 Pre-fail
Offline - 1

Thats the same single bad sector.

199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x000b 100 100 051 Pre-fail
Always - 0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x000b 100 100 051 Pre-fail
Always - 0
201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate 0x000b 253 253 051 Pre-fail
Always - 0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
ATA Error Count: 69 (device log contains only the most recent five
errors) CR = Command Register [HEX]
FR = Features Register [HEX]
SC = Sector Count Register [HEX]
SN = Sector Number Register [HEX]
CL = Cylinder Low Register [HEX]
CH = Cylinder High Register [HEX]
DH = Device/Head Register [HEX]
DC = Device Command Register [HEX]
ER = Error register [HEX]
ST = Status register [HEX]
Powered_Up_Time is measured from power on, and printed as
DDd+hh:mm:SS.sss where DD=days, hh=hours, mm=minutes,
SS=sec, and sss=millisec. It "wraps" after 49.710 days.

Error 69 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4
hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device
was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:51.875 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:51.875 SET FEATURES [Set
transfer mode] c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:51.875 SET
MULTIPLE MODE 00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:51.813 NOP
[Reserved subcommand]

Error 68 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4
hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device
was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:46.250 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:46.250 SET FEATURES [Set
transfer mode] c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:46.250 SET
MULTIPLE MODE 00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:46.250 NOP
[Reserved subcommand]

Error 67 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4
hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device
was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:40.688 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:40.688 SET FEATURES [Set
transfer mode] c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:40.688 SET
MULTIPLE MODE 00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:40.625 NOP
[Reserved subcommand]

Error 66 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4
hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device
was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:35.063 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:35.063 SET FEATURES [Set
transfer mode] c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:35.063 SET
MULTIPLE MODE 00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:35.000 NOP
[Reserved subcommand] ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:34.938 SET
FEATURES [Set transfer mode]

Error 65 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4
hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device
was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:29.313 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:29.313 SET FEATURES [Set
transfer mode] c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:29.313 SET
MULTIPLE MODE 00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:29.313 NOP
[Reserved subcommand]

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
No self-tests have been logged. [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]

Those are the same single bad sector.

Device does not support Selective Self Tests/Logging

So you're saying there's only 1 bad sector on the disk? Would this be one of
those they discovered at the factory, or one that developed after they shipped
it? Also, why did HUTIL report a ton of errors for various sectors? And I'm
not sure why you say the disk is fine... BootItNG already couldn't do
something because of the bad sector, and couldn't more bad sectors develop?

Thanks for your help.


On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:44:44 +1100, "Rod Speed" wrote:

wrote:

Here's the output (btw, that knoppix cd is pretty cool)...

Yeah, its pretty decent in this situation.

looks like there are some errors.

Yes, but nothing to worry about. Comments added in the output.

Would this indicate that there's definitely
something wrong with the disk,

No, the disk looks fine.

as opposed to a possible cable or
controller problem that you mentioned?

Doesnt look like a cable problem either, that should
show up in the UDMA_CRC_Error_Count and its perfect.

smartctl version 5.32 Copyright (C) 2002-4 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Device Model: SAMSUNG SP1213N
Firmware Version: TL100-24
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: 7
ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0
Local Time is: Tue Jan 3 03:34:02 2006 EST
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x00) Offline data collection
activity
was never started.
Auto Offline Data Collection:
Disabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine
completed
without error or no self-test has ever
been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: (4320) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: (0x1b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
Auto Offline data collection on/off
support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
No Conveyance Self-test supported.
No Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before
entering power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
No General Purpose Logging support.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 1) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 72) minutes.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000b 100 100 051 Pre-fail
Always - 0
3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0007 065 065 000 Pre-fail
Always - 6016
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 4
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 253 253 010 Pre-fail
Always - 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000b 253 253 051 Pre-fail
Always - 0
8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0024 253 253 000 Old_age
Offline - 0
9 Power_On_Half_Minutes 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 1011h+58m
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 253 253 049 Pre-fail
Always - 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 3
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 157 148 000 Old_age
Always - 27
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x000a 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 7356760

Thats normal with samsungs, just information, no indication of a problem.

196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 1

That is saying that that has been just one reallocated sector.

Thats fine, nothing to worry about.

197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0033 253 253 010 Pre-fail
Always - 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0031 100 100 010 Pre-fail
Offline - 1

Thats the same single bad sector.

199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x000b 100 100 051 Pre-fail
Always - 0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x000b 100 100 051 Pre-fail
Always - 0
201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate 0x000b 253 253 051 Pre-fail
Always - 0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
ATA Error Count: 69 (device log contains only the most recent five
errors) CR = Command Register [HEX]
FR = Features Register [HEX]
SC = Sector Count Register [HEX]
SN = Sector Number Register [HEX]
CL = Cylinder Low Register [HEX]
CH = Cylinder High Register [HEX]
DH = Device/Head Register [HEX]
DC = Device Command Register [HEX]
ER = Error register [HEX]
ST = Status register [HEX]
Powered_Up_Time is measured from power on, and printed as
DDd+hh:mm:SS.sss where DD=days, hh=hours, mm=minutes,
SS=sec, and sss=millisec. It "wraps" after 49.710 days.

Error 69 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4
hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device
was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:51.875 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:51.875 SET FEATURES [Set
transfer mode] c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:51.875 SET
MULTIPLE MODE 00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:51.813 NOP
[Reserved subcommand]

Error 68 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4
hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device
was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:46.250 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:46.250 SET FEATURES [Set
transfer mode] c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:46.250 SET
MULTIPLE MODE 00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:46.250 NOP
[Reserved subcommand]

Error 67 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4
hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device
was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:40.688 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:40.688 SET FEATURES [Set
transfer mode] c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:40.688 SET
MULTIPLE MODE 00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:40.625 NOP
[Reserved subcommand]

Error 66 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4
hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device
was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:35.063 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:35.063 SET FEATURES [Set
transfer mode] c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:35.063 SET
MULTIPLE MODE 00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:35.000 NOP
[Reserved subcommand] ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:34.938 SET
FEATURES [Set transfer mode]

Error 65 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4
hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device
was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:29.313 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:29.313 SET FEATURES [Set
transfer mode] c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:29.313 SET
MULTIPLE MODE 00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:29.313 NOP
[Reserved subcommand]

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
No self-tests have been logged. [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]

Those are the same single bad sector.

Device does not support Selective Self Tests/Logging

wrote

So you're saying there's only 1 bad sector on the disk?

Even that isnt completely clear, those normally show up as
reallocated sectors. Yours shows up as a reallocation event.

Doesnt explain the different result you got with HUTIL either.

I'd ask Samsung what they make of both reports.

Would this be one of those they discovered at the factory,

Nope.

or one that developed after they shipped it?

Yes.

Also, why did HUTIL report a ton of errors for various sectors?

It doesnt actually, it just reports a series right at the end of the
drive. Looks rather like its having a brain fart or something.

And I'm not sure why you say the disk is fine...

Basically because the SMART report looks fine.

BootItNG already couldn't do something because of the bad sector,

Its not at all clear if that had anything to do with it at all.
Could just be some quirk of BootItNG

and couldn't more bad sectors develop?

Yes, but its clearly not reporting the number that HUTIL whined about.
Looks rather more like HUTIL had a brain fart and was attempting to
access past what the drive actually has or something.

I'd see what Samsung says about both reports.

I'd also see what Hitachi's DFT says about the drive, basically to check HUTIL.

Thanks for your help.

Please post what Samsung's response is.


Rod Speed wrote
wrote

Here's the output (btw, that knoppix cd is pretty cool)...

Yeah, its pretty decent in this situation.

looks like there are some errors.

Yes, but nothing to worry about. Comments added in the output.

Would this indicate that there's definitely
something wrong with the disk,

No, the disk looks fine.

as opposed to a possible cable or
controller problem that you mentioned?

Doesnt look like a cable problem either, that should
show up in the UDMA_CRC_Error_Count and its perfect.

smartctl version 5.32 Copyright (C) 2002-4 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Device Model: SAMSUNG SP1213N
Firmware Version: TL100-24
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: 7
ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0
Local Time is: Tue Jan 3 03:34:02 2006 EST
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status: (0x00) Offline data collection
activity
was never started.
Auto Offline Data Collection:
Disabled.
Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test
routine completed
without error or no self-test has ever
been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection: (4320) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities: (0x1b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
Auto Offline data collection on/off
support.
Suspend Offline collection upon new
command.
Offline surface scan supported.
Self-test supported.
No Conveyance Self-test supported.
No Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before
entering power-saving mode.
Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
No General Purpose Logging support.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 1) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time: ( 72) minutes.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000b 100 100 051 Pre-fail
Always - 0
3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0007 065 065 000 Pre-fail
Always - 6016
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 4
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 253 253 010 Pre-fail
Always - 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000b 253 253 051 Pre-fail
Always - 0
8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0024 253 253 000 Old_age
Offline - 0
9 Power_On_Half_Minutes 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 1011h+58m
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 253 253 049 Pre-fail
Always - 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 3
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 157 148 000 Old_age
Always - 27
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x000a 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 7356760

Thats normal with samsungs, just information, no indication of a
problem.

196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age
Always - 1

That is saying that that has been just one reallocated sector.

Thats fine, nothing to worry about.

197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0033 253 253 010 Pre-fail
Always - 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0031 100 100 010 Pre-fail
Offline - 1

Thats the same single bad sector.

199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x000b 100 100 051 Pre-fail
Always - 0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x000b 100 100 051 Pre-fail
Always - 0
201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate 0x000b 253 253 051 Pre-fail
Always - 0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
ATA Error Count: 69 (device log contains only the most recent five
errors) CR = Command Register [HEX]
FR = Features Register [HEX]
SC = Sector Count Register [HEX]
SN = Sector Number Register [HEX]
CL = Cylinder Low Register [HEX]
CH = Cylinder High Register [HEX]
DH = Device/Head Register [HEX]
DC = Device Command Register [HEX]
ER = Error register [HEX]
ST = Status register [HEX]
Powered_Up_Time is measured from power on, and printed as
DDd+hh:mm:SS.sss where DD=days, hh=hours, mm=minutes,
SS=sec, and sss=millisec. It "wraps" after 49.710 days.

Error 69 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4
hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device
was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:51.875 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:51.875 SET FEATURES [Set
transfer mode] c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:51.875 SET
MULTIPLE MODE 00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:51.813 NOP
[Reserved subcommand]

Error 68 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4
hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device
was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:46.250 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:46.250 SET FEATURES [Set
transfer mode] c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:46.250 SET
MULTIPLE MODE 00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:46.250 NOP
[Reserved subcommand]

Error 67 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4
hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device
was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:40.688 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:40.688 SET FEATURES [Set
transfer mode] c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:40.688 SET
MULTIPLE MODE 00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:40.625 NOP
[Reserved subcommand]

Error 66 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4
hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device
was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:35.063 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:35.063 SET FEATURES [Set
transfer mode] c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:35.063 SET
MULTIPLE MODE 00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:35.000 NOP
[Reserved subcommand] ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:34.938
SET FEATURES [Set transfer mode]

Error 65 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 940 hours (39 days + 4
hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device
was active or idle.

After command completion occurred, registers we
ER ST SC SN CL CH DH
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
40 51 7e 8d ea 4a e7 Error: UNC at LBA = 0x074aea8d = 122350221

Commands leading to the command that caused the error we
CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- --------------------
c4 03 7e 8d ea 4a e7 00 41d+20:21:29.313 READ MULTIPLE
ef 03 0c 01 10 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:29.313 SET FEATURES [Set
transfer mode] c6 00 10 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:29.313 SET
MULTIPLE MODE 00 03 01 01 00 00 a0 00 41d+20:21:29.313 NOP
[Reserved subcommand]

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
No self-tests have been logged. [To run self-tests, use: smartctl
-t]

Those are the same single bad sector.

Device does not support Selective Self Tests/Logging

Rod,

I will email Samsung, and I will also try to run the DFT in the next few days.

Also, can you tell me if reading or writing to a bad sector will always show
up in the SMART data? So if I don't see any mention of errors in the SMART
data, then I'll know that no data has been read or written to a bad sector?

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage wrote:
Rod,

I will email Samsung, and I will also try to run the DFT in the next
few days.

Also, can you tell me if reading or writing to a bad sector will
always show up in the SMART data? So if I don't see any mention of
errors in the SMART data, then I'll know that no data has been read
or written to a bad sector?

It will not. I had one disk (specifically Maxtor) decrease
the SMART defect count to zero after it had defects. Now, it
may have re-tested these sectors, but in my view defects are
defects and should not goo away.

What might work is the error log. The disk keeps the last 4
(or so) errors with description.

Best just run a long SMART self-test and see whether it
completes without error.

Arno