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#11
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Surge / Ground / Lightning
On Apr 30, 3:10 pm, wrote:
Maybe he taken a hiatus after the right propper whopping he got here last week. I thought it was hillarious after he derided the makers of plug-in surge protectors and then gave us his list of "real companies", like Intermatic, GE, Leviton, etc., that were experts at it. Only problem was, all of the companies on his list sell plug-in ones too. Trader ignored a reply that corrected his misconceptions. I, too, would sell plug-in protectors to 'experts' who never learned how electricity works. If one wants to stay ignorant, then I, too, would be happy to reap profits from their ignorance. But, effective protectors are sold only by companies with high reputations. Trader never understood that part. Some are foolish as to believe APC, Tripplite, Belkin, and Monster Cable are responsible manufacturers. Effective 'whole house' protectors are sold by GE, Leviton, Square D, Siemens, Cutler-Hammer, Keison, and Intermatic - to name but a few. APC, Tripplite, Belkin, and Monster Cable don't sell effective protectors. Their products do not even claim to provide protection. But those who know using insults would also recommend those APC, et al protectors. I would also sell trader the Brooklyn Bridge should he remain that naive. Well, this 'sound byte' is already too long for those to know only by attacking the messenger. Others who would spend tens of times less money to have significant protection can easily identify the scam protector. 1) It has no dedicated earthing wire. 2) Its manufacturer does not discuss earthing. 3) It does not claim protection from each type of surge in manufacturer spec numbers. All three points identify every protector from APC, Belkin, Tripplite, and Monster Cable. A grocery store protector is the same ineffective protector circuit selling for a smaller profit. At a profit? Equivalent to that profitable $7 protector is a circuit inside that $150 Monster Cable protector. Higher price means better protection? Yes, when one would also buy the Brooklyn Bridge. Protection in a $150 Monster Cable product is equivalent to that $7 grocery store protector. Both protectors make the same protection claims in numeric specs. Responsible lurkers ignore the insults; instead learn facts. Every responsible engineering source defines what the effective protector does: divert a surge into earth where energy is harmlessly dissipated. Numerous above posters claim a surge protector somehow absorbs energy that even three miles of sky could not stop. Does that silly little one inch part stop what three miles of sky could not? Many posters believe that myth. An earthed 'whole house' protector means surge energy gets dissipated harmlessly in earth AND protector remains functional after a direct lightning strike. Effective protection means nobody knows a surge even existed. Did you grasp that technical reality - or know only because others have posted insults? A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Three point are provided to quickly indentify the ineffective (highly profitable) protectors. |
#12
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Surge / Ground / Lightning
w_tom wrote:
On Apr 30, 3:10 pm, wrote: Maybe he taken a hiatus after the right propper whopping he got here last week. I thought it was hillarious after he derided the makers of plug-in surge protectors and then gave us his list of "real companies", like Intermatic, GE, Leviton, etc., that were experts at it. Only problem was, all of the companies on his list sell plug-in ones too. But, effective protectors are sold only by companies with high reputations. Effective 'whole house' protectors are sold by GE, Leviton, Square D, Siemens, Cutler-Hammer, Keison, and Intermatic - to name but a few. On cue w_ comes up with the list of "responsible manufacturers" trader referred to. All of them make plug-in suppressors but SquareD. For the SquareD 'best' service panel suppressor - SDSB1175C - The literature says "electronic equipment may need additional protection by installing plug-in [suppressors] at the point of use." - The connected equipment warranty $ is double when the suppressors "is used in conjunction with ... a point of use surge protective device." For the next best suppressor - QO2175SB and HOM2175SB - The connected equipment warranty $ does not include "electronic devices such as: microwave ovens, audio and stereo components, video equipment, televisions, and computers." It appears none of w_'s companies has a high reputation. Still never seen - any source that agrees with w_ that plug-in suppressors are NOT effective. It is w_ against the universe. -- bud-- |
#13
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Surge / Ground / Lightning
On May 1, 11:24*am, bud-- wrote:
w_tom wrote: On Apr 30, 3:10 pm, wrote: Maybe he taken a hiatus after the right propper whopping he got here last week. * I thought it was hillarious after he derided the makers of plug-in surge protectors and then gave us his list of "real companies", like Intermatic, GE, Leviton, etc., that were experts at it. * *Only problem was, all of the companies on his list sell plug-in ones too. But, effective protectors are sold only by companies with high reputations. Effective 'whole house' protectors are sold by GE, Leviton, Square D, Siemens, Cutler-Hammer, Keison, and Intermatic - to name but a few. On cue w_ comes up with the list of "responsible manufacturers" trader referred to. All of them make plug-in suppressors but SquareD. For the SquareD 'best' service panel suppressor - SDSB1175C - The literature says "electronic equipment may need additional protection by installing plug-in [suppressors] at the point of use." - The connected equipment warranty $ is double when the suppressors "is used in conjunction with ... a point of use surge protective device." For the next best suppressor - QO2175SB and HOM2175SB - The connected equipment warranty $ does not include "electronic devices such as: microwave ovens, audio and stereo components, video equipment, televisions, and computers." It appears none of w_'s companies has a high reputation. Still never seen - any source that agrees with w_ that plug-in suppressors are NOT effective. It is *w_ *against the universe. -- bud-- And also never heard an explanation from w_ about the inherrent conflict in another aspect of his position. He says appliance/ electronics manufacturers put surge protection inside the appliance and that is peachy keen and appropriate. Yet he can't explain how it is that an MOV inside the electronics actually protects, while an MOV located in a plug-in is useless. Unless there is a magical earth ground inside the electronic appliance, it must operate under the same conditions as the plug-in. Geez, that inescapable conflict must give w_ nightmares. |
#14
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Surge / Ground / Lightning
On Apr 30, 7:42*pm, w_tom wrote:
On Apr 30, 3:10 pm, wrote: Maybe he taken a hiatus after the right propper whopping he got here last week. * I thought it was hillarious after he derided the makers of plug-in surge protectors and then gave us his list of "real companies", like Intermatic, GE, Leviton, etc., that were experts at it. * *Only problem was, all of the companies on his list sell plug-in ones too. * Trader ignored a reply that corrected his misconceptions. *I, too, would sell plug-in protectors to 'experts' who never learned how electricity works. *If one wants to stay ignorant, then I, too, *would be happy to reap profits from their ignorance. *But, effective protectors are sold only by companies with high reputations. *Trader never understood that part. * Some are foolish as to believe APC, Tripplite, Belkin, and Monster Cable are responsible manufacturers. *Effective 'whole house' protectors are sold by GE, Leviton, Square D, Siemens, Cutler-Hammer, Keison, and Intermatic - to name but a few. *APC, Tripplite, Belkin, and Monster Cable don't sell effective protectors. *Their products do not even claim to provide protection. *But those who know using insults would also recommend those APC, et al protectors. *I would also sell trader the Brooklyn Bridge should he remain that naive. * Well, this 'sound byte' is already too long for those to know only by attacking the messenger. *Others who would spend tens of times less money to have significant protection can easily identify the scam protector. * 1) It has no dedicated earthing wire. * 2) Its manufacturer does not discuss earthing. * 3) It does not claim protection from each type of surge in manufacturer spec numbers. All three points identify every protector from APC, Belkin, Tripplite, and Monster Cable. *A grocery store protector is the same ineffective protector circuit selling for a smaller profit. *At a profit? Equivalent to that profitable $7 protector is a circuit inside that $150 Monster Cable protector. * Higher price means better protection? Yes, when one would also buy the Brooklyn Bridge. Protection in a $150 Monster Cable product is equivalent to that $7 grocery store protector. *Both protectors make the same protection claims in numeric specs. * *Responsible lurkers ignore the insults; instead learn facts. *Every responsible engineering source defines what the effective protector does: * divert a surge into earth where energy is harmlessly dissipated. *Numerous above posters claim a surge protector somehow absorbs energy that even three miles of sky could not stop. *Does that silly little one inch part stop what three miles of sky could not? Many posters believe that myth. * An earthed 'whole house' protector means surge energy gets dissipated harmlessly in earth AND protector remains functional after a direct lightning strike. *Effective protection means nobody knows a surge even existed. *Did you grasp that technical reality - or know only because others have posted insults? *A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. *Three point are provided to quickly indentify the ineffective (highly profitable) protectors. Whaaat, you say my Triplights that offer a life time warranty to damages from from surges and lightning offer non such claim or warranty, thats pure barf. Triplight surge protectors are only one step a homeowner needs to hopefully protect you. Ive been hit several times, anything you do helps a bit. Sure to do it right can cost 10000.00 for protection. But if a storm is commin, even with my mains lightning arrestor and surge protection, and individual Trip units, I still unplug. |
#15
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Surge / Ground / Lightning
In alt.tv.tech.hdtv bud-- wrote:
| For the SquareD 'best' service panel suppressor - SDSB1175C | - The literature says "electronic equipment may need additional | protection by installing plug-in [suppressors] at the point of use." | - The connected equipment warranty $ is double when the suppressors "is | used in conjunction with ... a point of use surge protective device." And do you understand the scientific basis why this is so? I doubt it. | For the next best suppressor - QO2175SB and HOM2175SB | - The connected equipment warranty $ does not include "electronic | devices such as: microwave ovens, audio and stereo components, video | equipment, televisions, and computers." | | It appears none of w_'s companies has a high reputation. Or maybe it's a different type of suppressor. Did you even look? Sadly, when marketing gets in control, they tend to hide the imporant engineering and scientific details. It even happens with companies like Square-D. Maybe you should look at the Eaton-Cutler-Hammer devices. | Still never seen - any source that agrees with w_ that plug-in | suppressors are NOT effective. It is w_ against the universe. The only sources you are looking at simply give a generic list of what kinds of things you might use. There are no scientific explanations to help you figure out what is needed in your particular situation for you to achieve the level of protection you want. OTOH, I have my doubts about your ability to understand the science, so that may explain why they limited things to a few simplistic illustrations in what is really just a "to do" guide that does not cover all situations or all levels of protection. -- |WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from | | Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers | | you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. | | Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) | |
#16
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Surge / Ground / Lightning
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#17
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Surge / Ground / Lightning
On May 1, 12:21 pm, wrote:
He says appliance/ electronics manufacturers put surge protection inside the appliance and that is peachy keen and appropriate. Yet he can't explain how it is that an MOV inside the electronics actually protects, while an MOV located in a plug-in is useless. If trader read what was posted rather than entertain his assumptions, then trader would understand appliances contain internal protection. When trader misread, then trader reclessly invented MOVs to provide internal protection. What w_tom posted is not found in trader's wild speculation. With a grasp of technology, then trader would have known industry standard numbers that defined internal electronics protection even 35 years ago. Trader does not know these numbers. Trader then assumed that protection must be provided by MOVs. Trader - learn technology BEFORE knowing everything. You have no idea of protection inside all appliances. By reading reclessly and by using wild speculation and ignorance, trader assumes protection must be provided by MOVs. Protection inside appliances is integrated within appliance design. Internal appliance protection that may be overwhelmed if a 'whole house' protector is not installed and properly earthed. Nothing in that paragraph discusses MOVs. MOVs inside appliances is another trader 'wild speculation' due to knowledge without first learning the technology. We earth a 'whole house' protector AND connect all protectors short (ie 'less than 10 feet') to single point earth ground so that protection inside all appliances is not overwhelmed. Simple stuff that so confused trader. trader *assumed* MOVs rather than read what was posted. trader again demonstrates insufficient technical kowledge justifies his mockery and insult. Mythical MOV inside appliances demonstrate that trader only reads what he wants to see; not what is posted. MOVs inside appliances is another trader myth. Had trader read what was posted or learned technology, then trader would not invent fictional MOVs inside appliances. |
#18
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Surge / Ground / Lightning
On May 1, 2:18*pm, ransley wrote:
Whaaat, you say my Triplights that offer a life time warranty to damages from from surges and lightning offer non such *claim or warranty, thats pure barf. Triplight surge protectors are only one step a homeowner needs to hopefully protect you. Ive been hit several times, anything you do helps a bit. Actually some things installed will decrease protection - ie the TV destroyed because the plug-in protector earthed an 8000 volt surge through it. Gross assumptions are also behind that warranty. Did you read the fine print and learn from so many others who never got that warranty honored? For example, some plujg-in protectors state that a protector from any other manufacturer in the building means their warranty is void. Another says that if you don't submit the claim on their forms, the claim may be rejected. Another says reinbursement is based on depreciation meaning the computer has zero value in a few years. Another says that every electrical conductor that touches that appliance must connect through their protector. Did they forget to mention that a table top is considered an electrical conductor? How many fine print exemptions make a warranty void? Fine print is chock full of exemptions. Warranty says nothing about protection. Steve Uhrig on 17 Jun 2003 in the newsgroup comp.home.automation entitled "UPS for computer and TV" I read the terms of their warranty, which I had saved together with the purchase receipt, and contacted them to submit a warranty claim. I was nice and polite and had everything documented including photos of their product installed next to the fax. They laughed in my face. Almost could not have been more insulting. I wrote to the executive management of the company, copied customer service, sent both return receipt to prove they received them, and never got the courtesy of a reply. Did that protector do protection? Well, how many dishwashers have been surge damaged during the same surges? How many dimmer switches? Where are these surges that the Tripplite protected from? Only way you know that Tripplite provided protection is when everything else - every smoke detector, clock radio, dimmer switch, washing machine, etc was destroyed. You have no idea what that Tripplite did. In fact, Page 42 Figure 8 - the Tripplite may even make create damage to other items in that room. |
#19
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Surge / Ground / Lightning
On May 1, 3:30*pm, w_tom wrote:
On May 1, 2:18*pm, ransley wrote: Whaaat, you say my Triplights that offer a life time warranty to damages from from surges and lightning offer non such *claim or warranty, thats pure barf. Triplight surge protectors are only one step a homeowner needs to hopefully protect you. Ive been hit several times, anything you do helps a bit. * Actually some things installed will decrease protection - ie the TV destroyed because the plug-in protector earthed an 8000 volt surge through it. *Gross assumptions are also behind that warranty. *Did you read the fine print and learn from so many others who never got that warranty honored? * For example, some plujg-in protectors state that a protector from any other manufacturer in the building means their warranty is void. Another says that if you don't submit the claim on their forms, the claim may be rejected. Another says reinbursement is based on depreciation meaning the computer has zero value in a few years. Another says that every electrical conductor that touches that appliance must connect through their protector. *Did they forget to mention that a table top is considered an electrical conductor? *How many fine print exemptions make a warranty void? *Fine print is chock full of exemptions. *Warranty says nothing about protection. Steve Uhrig on 17 Jun 2003 in the newsgroup * comp.home.automation entitled "UPS for computer and TV" I read the terms of their warranty, which I had saved together with the purchase receipt, and contacted them to submit a warranty claim. I was nice and polite and had everything documented including photos of their product installed next to the fax. They laughed in my face. Almost could not have been more insulting. I wrote to the executive management of the company, copied customer service, sent both return receipt to prove they received them, and never got the courtesy of a reply. * *Did that protector do protection? *Well, how many dishwashers have been surge damaged during the same surges? *How many dimmer switches? Where are these surges that the Tripplite protected from? *Only way you know that Tripplite provided protection is when everything else - every smoke detector, clock radio, dimmer switch, washing machine, etc was destroyed. *You have no idea what that Tripplite did. * In fact, Page 42 Figure 8 - the Tripplite may even make create damage to other items in that room. Actualy, Double U, bottom slasch, TOM , I had about a $30,000 strike, Tripp was warranting it, and I let my insurance Co go after it. It was bad, even flourescents 3 floors down lit from PLASMA energy. Tripp was there,You are a negative |
#20
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Surge / Ground / Lightning
wrote Maybe he taken a hiatus after the right propper whopping he got here last week. I thought it was hillarious after he derided the makers of plug-in surge protectors and then gave us his list of "real companies", like Intermatic, GE, Leviton, etc., that were experts at it. Only problem was, all of the companies on his list sell plug-in ones too. Huh, so according to all of w_'s sermons, Bud must be working overtime as a salesman for all of those companies too? Busy guy! |
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