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#11
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new system bootup woes
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 22:56:25 -0800, mike wrote:
What does your voltmeter say? 'Avo' ? |
#12
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new system bootup woes
"mechanic" wrote in message ... On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 22:00:51 -0800, Adam wrote: I am having trouble with power to brand new system. So send it back to the shop! Can't, it's a home build. |
#13
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new system bootup woes
"Paul" wrote in message ... Adam wrote: "mike" wrote in message ... On 12/16/2014 10:20 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote: Adam wrote: Host OS: Ubuntu Desktop 12.04 LTS Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AM3+ AMD SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Computer Case: Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W Modular I am having trouble with power to brand new system. After talking with OCZ tech support and doing a simple test, we were able to get the PS fan to spin-up. OCZ Tech support concludes that this is a strong indication that the PS is functional. Next, I suspect that the Antec case's I/O panel wiring to mobo pins may be the culprit. The wiring seems fine to me but still no power. Maybe a loose connection? How to make a stronger connection? If the system powers up to where the power supply fan runs then start looking a the motherboard. Any post codes? Indicator lights on motherboard? Reseat RAM. Check CPU, remove all cards except video (if not using onboard) and see if it posts then. What does your voltmeter say? Oh boy, that's new to me. I'll see if I can find any "how to" links on troubleshooting with a voltmeter. Now you understand why I "bench test" on the kitchen table first, before putting the system in the computer case. You don't absolutely need *any* wiring to the front panel at all, for a bench test. But what I do instead, is keep a push button switch with two connector pins on the end, which slide over the PWR and Ground pin pair. That's for turning the system on. I can also slip a screwdriver tip between those two pins, to bridge them and start the system. That requires a good deal of care and dexterity, and is only practical when the motherboard is sitting on the kitchen table. http://i61.tinypic.com/28bgwf9.gif On the picture there, you can see that header has a "dangerous pair" in the SPKR pin area. Don't bridge that +5V pin if you can possibly manage it, to any adjacent Ground pins. It's another one of those situations where there may be no protective fuse in the path. ******* In the past, some Antecs have had wiring errors in USB or Firewire cables (that's a 2x5 on the motherboard end, leading to a front panel mounted connector). So I would not hook up the front panel I/O wiring at all. On a couple Antec cases here (I have at least three of them), I use the multimeter, set to ohms range, to verify the cable wiring is correct. It's just easier to *not* use Antec front wiring, than be bothered to do that. None of my Antec front USB ports are hooked up, for this reason. I'm too lazy to correct the errors by moving the pins around in the 2x5 end. ******* I take it, OCZ had you do the "unconnected supply" test ? For that one, you bridge PS_ON# to GND on the ATX cable. Bringing the logic level low on PS_ON# is what makes the supply fan spin, and the main supply section to function. On page 37 here, that would be the green PS_ON# wire, to an adjacent black GND wire. Some people recommend connecting a dummy load to the supply, in the form of an old (scratch) hard drive or something that draws a similar small amount of power. http://www.formfactors.org/developer...public_br2.pdf ******* This is a simplified model of the ATX supply. There are two power generation circuits, and +5VSB is separate from the rest. AC Input ------+--- +5VSB circuit | +--- +3.3/5.0/12V main section When you switch the supply on at the back, the +5VSB starts to produce power immediately. The fan will not be spinning at this point. The +5VSB provides 2 to 3 amps max, and is used as a supervisory voltage, amongst other uses. The ATX power supply is convection cooled at this point, when removing heat from the +5VSB circuit. Due to the modest capacity of the +5VSB, it doesn't get too warm. When the ATX power supply main cable has PS_ON# and GND brought together, that grounds the pullup resistor on PS_ON#. Normally, with a voltmeter, you'd see 5 volts level on PS_ON#, and it's when that level is grounded that the supply runs. The fan begins to spin, and the main voltages begin to be produced. The motherboard would be starting to POST at this point. The case fans would be spinning. If you attempt to start an ATX supply, and you see the PSU fan "twitch" about a half inch of rotation, that means the supply tried to start, but encountered a serious short circuit (current overload) on the outputs. To protect against burning any cables, the ATX supply has latched off. Normally, you'd need to switch off at the back, wait 30 seconds, switch on again, to make another attempt to start the system. The reason the supply "twitches", is the overcurrent is disabled for the first 35 milliseconds, until the PSU has had a chance to charge the output capacitors, and that allows the fans to receive current for 35 milliseconds. The fan blades can only "twitch" in such a short time frame. If the "serious short" is present, when the overcurrent detection is enabled at 35 milliseconds, the power supply immediately shuts off the main section. (The reason you wait 30 seconds, is to give any inrush limiter time to cool off.) In this diagram, the +5VSB is used to power the control circuits. The motherboard logic "latches" the momentary logic low level from the front panel switch, and drives out a "steady" 0.0V level on PSON#. And that's what is used to control the ATX supply. +5VSB (0.0V level +5VSB | means "run please") | Pullup \_ Pullup Resistor \ Resistor | PS_ON# | PWR X----+---- Motherboard ---- Open -------------------+- ... control / logic Collector (to of main | GND X----+ Driver ATX + PSU | | supply) | section (Front GND GND Panel Switch - normally open, momentarily close to operate) By removing any USB panel header or Firewire panel header wiring from the front panel to the motherboard, you're removing a possible place for electrical shorts to happen. Wiring up the PWR button from the front of the case (two wire twisted pair labeled PWR and GND), gives you enough control to turn the system on and off. ******* On an Asus motherboard, there is a green LED which is wired in such a way as to monitor for +5VSB. If the ATX PSU is supplying +5VSB, and the main PSU cable is wired up, the green LED should be glowing. And the LED should not flicker. It should be a solid level for the entire time that the switch on the back of the ATX supply is in the ON position. Asus provides the LED, to tell you when it is safe to work inside the PC. The LED must be completely extinguished, before you work on RAM DIMMs or pull PCI Express cards, that sort of thing. It takes up to 30 seconds for +5VSB to drain, after the ATX PSU is switched off. Paul Thanks, Guru Paul !! This is just a quick post since I will need some time to digest the info. |
#14
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new system bootup woes
"Edmund" wrote in message ... On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 22:00:51 -0800, Adam wrote: Host OS: Ubuntu Desktop 12.04 LTS Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AM3+ AMD SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Computer Case: Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W Modular I am having trouble with power to brand new system. After talking with OCZ tech support and doing a simple test, we were able to get the PS fan to spin-up. OCZ Tech support concludes that this is a strong indication that the PS is functional. Next, I suspect that the Antec case's I/O panel wiring to mobo pins may be the culprit. The wiring seems fine to me but still no power. Maybe a loose connection? How to make a stronger connection? Any ideas? Normally there are some leds on the mainboard giving info about its status. Sometimes this is found in a manual..... Stronger connection??? not likely the problem. Edmund Thanks, yep, I was looking through the mobo manual and there are CPU_LED, DRAM_LED/MemOK switch, VGA_LED, etc. Will be checking those out later. |
#15
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new system bootup woes
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 23:45:38 -0800, "Adam" Gave us: "mike" wrote in message ... On 12/16/2014 10:20 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote: Adam wrote: Host OS: Ubuntu Desktop 12.04 LTS Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AM3+ AMD SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Computer Case: Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W Modular I am having trouble with power to brand new system. After talking with OCZ tech support and doing a simple test, we were able to get the PS fan to spin-up. OCZ Tech support concludes that this is a strong indication that the PS is functional. Next, I suspect that the Antec case's I/O panel wiring to mobo pins may be the culprit. The wiring seems fine to me but still no power. Maybe a loose connection? How to make a stronger connection? If the system powers up to where the power supply fan runs then start looking a the motherboard. Any post codes? Indicator lights on motherboard? Reseat RAM. Check CPU, remove all cards except video (if not using onboard) and see if it posts then. What does your voltmeter say? Oh boy, that's new to me. I'll see if I can find any "how to" links on troubleshooting with a voltmeter. You can buy a multi PS tester for PCs at Amazon or other popular retailer that costs about $7 to $15 and you hook you disconnected PS cable to it, and it gives voltages for all the ATX supply rails in the spec. Easy greasy... http://www.amazon.com/Coolmax-Power-.../dp/B002R06PGE http://www.amazon.com/Coolmax-PS-228.../dp/B004ZPB546 Halfway down the page on the second one is a whole row of them to compare. |
#16
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new system bootup woes
Adam wrote:
"Edmund" wrote in message ... On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 22:00:51 -0800, Adam wrote: Host OS: Ubuntu Desktop 12.04 LTS Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AM3+ AMD SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Computer Case: Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W Modular I am having trouble with power to brand new system. After talking with OCZ tech support and doing a simple test, we were able to get the PS fan to spin-up. OCZ Tech support concludes that this is a strong indication that the PS is functional. Next, I suspect that the Antec case's I/O panel wiring to mobo pins may be the culprit. The wiring seems fine to me but still no power. Maybe a loose connection? How to make a stronger connection? Any ideas? Normally there are some leds on the mainboard giving info about its status. Sometimes this is found in a manual..... Stronger connection??? not likely the problem. Edmund Thanks, yep, I was looking through the mobo manual and there are CPU_LED, DRAM_LED/MemOK switch, VGA_LED, etc. Will be checking those out later. Also most motherboards have a speaker pins on the front panel header, and they include a little speaker dongle that if you connect it you can get post beep codes that can help. As someone else mentioned did the CPU fan start? LED on motherboard light up? HD spin up? Monitor get a signal or NO SIGNAL message? As I said you should try with minimal connections...remove everything except video and the connection to the "pwr sw" pins on the front header. This narrows your search. -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com |
#17
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new system bootup woes
Paul wrote:
When debugging a power problem, at system startup the components don't draw "max power". Even a modest power supply, mistakenly connected to a high power system load, should get you to the BIOS screen. I've seen where an underpowered or weak PSU (they get limp over time) won't power up a system (to the POST screen) that is minimally configured until the HDD is disconnected. Too much power draw on a weak PSU means no boot or unreliable boot despite the PSU's fans will spin. |
#18
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new system bootup woes
mechanic, an inaccurate nym, wrote:
Adam wrote: I am having trouble with power to brand new system. So send it back to the shop! He did. Adam *is* the shop. Look at the specs he gave. Did that look like a pre-built or OEM build to you? |
#19
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new system bootup woes
Paul wrote:
You don't absolutely need *any* wiring to the front panel at all, for a bench test. But what I do instead, is keep a push button switch with two connector pins on the end, which slide over the PWR and Ground pin pair. That's for turning the system on. I can also slip a screwdriver tip between those two pins, to bridge them and start the system. That requires a good deal of care and dexterity, and is only practical when the motherboard is sitting on the kitchen table. If shorting the PWR pins on the onboard front-panel pins doesn't work, and to test the PSU is okay, bypass the onboard logic for soft power up of the ATX PSU. Short the PS_ON line (green wi pin 16 on a 24 power connector, pin 14 on a 20-pin connector) to a ground line (black wire). See pinout at http://www.smpspowersupply.com/connector_atx_pinout.GIF. The signal floats high but the onboard logic pulls that line low to tell the PSU to power up. Shorting it to ground effects the same pull to low state. If done while the PSU is disconnected from the mobo, some PSUs won't power up until they sense a load, so attach an HDD. Front panel power switches can go bad or be defective so the PWR pin short is a good test; however, if that doesn't work, make sure the PSU will come up if its PS_ON line is pulled low. |
#20
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new system bootup woes
"DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" wrote in message ... On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 23:45:38 -0800, "Adam" Gave us: "mike" wrote in message ... On 12/16/2014 10:20 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote: Adam wrote: Host OS: Ubuntu Desktop 12.04 LTS Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AM3+ AMD SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Computer Case: Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower Power Supply: OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W Modular I am having trouble with power to brand new system. After talking with OCZ tech support and doing a simple test, we were able to get the PS fan to spin-up. OCZ Tech support concludes that this is a strong indication that the PS is functional. Next, I suspect that the Antec case's I/O panel wiring to mobo pins may be the culprit. The wiring seems fine to me but still no power. Maybe a loose connection? How to make a stronger connection? If the system powers up to where the power supply fan runs then start looking a the motherboard. Any post codes? Indicator lights on motherboard? Reseat RAM. Check CPU, remove all cards except video (if not using onboard) and see if it posts then. What does your voltmeter say? Oh boy, that's new to me. I'll see if I can find any "how to" links on troubleshooting with a voltmeter. You can buy a multi PS tester for PCs at Amazon or other popular retailer that costs about $7 to $15 and you hook you disconnected PS cable to it, and it gives voltages for all the ATX supply rails in the spec. Easy greasy... http://www.amazon.com/Coolmax-Power-.../dp/B002R06PGE http://www.amazon.com/Coolmax-PS-228.../dp/B004ZPB546 Halfway down the page on the second one is a whole row of them to compare. Thanks, added it to my wish list just in time for Santa. :-) |
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