Typical mains power for mid-range PC?

Rod Speed wrote:

" Most current drives dont idle at 10W.... ....Dont believe it, list
the model number. "



Select the drop-down menu. Choose each of the bottom four tests and
sort. The second resulting table lists the numbers clearer.

http://www.storagereview.com/comparison.html

That should put the cat among the pigeons.

Cuzman wrote:

Rod Speed wrote:

" Most current drives dont idle at 10W.... ....Dont believe it, list
the model number. "

Select the drop-down menu. Choose each of the bottom four tests and
sort. The second resulting table lists the numbers clearer.

http://www.storagereview.com/comparison.html

That should put the cat among the pigeons.


Yes Dorothy was right all along.

Cuzman wrote
Rod Speed wrote
John Jordan wrote
Rod Speed wrote
John Jordan wrote

idle: 10W

Thats nothing like typical for 7200 rpm drives.

load: 24W

And neither is that.

It's an extremely common drive (at least in the UK),

Most current drives dont idle at 10W.

Select the drop-down menu. Choose each of the bottom four tests and sort. The second
resulting table lists the numbers clearer.

http://www.storagereview.com/comparison.html

That should put the cat among the pigeons.

Nope, even someone as stupid as you should be able to work out
that the idle power with commonly used drives is nothing like 10W.

In spades with Dorothy's stupid 20-25W max.

Johannes wrote
Cuzman wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Most current drives dont idle at 10W....

Select the drop-down menu. Choose each of the bottom four tests
and sort. The second resulting table lists the numbers clearer.

http://www.storagereview.com/comparison.html

That should put the cat among the pigeons.

Yes Dorothy was right all along.

Only in your pathetic little drug crazed fantasyland.

For HD I stated...
o 7200rpm 3.5" -- 10W at idle,

And that is overstating it.

o Go to any of the HD maker websites
o Download the manufacturers specification
o Read it.

Stick an ammeter on a current Barracuda & older Barracuda.
Do not use the 2A fused range during startup obviously.


Likewise a CD-ROM may draw only a few watts, but a high end
DVD-R/RAM/CDR writer multi-drive can draw 18-25W at peak.

Not very often tho.

PCs have a range of wattage draw re idle/loaded...
o Base end office Cel2.0, integrated graphics, 1 HD, 1 optical
o idle -- 85W with 17" TFT, 95W with 19" TFT
o load -- 120W for 17" TFT, 130W with 19" TFT


o 10000rpm 3.5" -- assume 30W re cooling needs

Bad assumption.

You really are a troll.

HD spec of 8-17W can not be applied to cooling needs...
o 8-17W is not distributed evenly over the whole drive
---- a HD is Actuator, Spindle Assembly, PCB Components
o 8-17W may be focused in specific components
---- with specific maximum operating temps
---- requiring specific linear feet per min of airflow
o Providing cooling for 8-17W ignores local needs
---- thermal shadowing by other components
---- thermal shadowing by case design & HD positioning


Stick 2x 10,000rpm HD against one another in a drive cage.
Provide sufficient cooling for 2x 8-17W drives.

I will provide the data recovery firm name to use...
o Motor-IC overheats from lack of linear-feet-per-min airflow
o Motor-IC dumps heat into surroundings, motor/spindle heat
o Motor-spindle dumps heat into FDB accelerating aging
o FDB aging causes higher current draw (startup & continuous)
---- S.M.A.R.T. data measures startup Ima &/or startup Tsecs
o Higher current draw heats motor/spindle & Motor-IC
---- Reinforcing System Loop of increasing thermal dissipation

Same thing happens more slowly with HDs anyway - hence the
older a HD the higher the startup current & higher op current.

Add another HD because the old one is too small, fit them too
close & you can accelerate the demise of the old one by temps.

I would assume 30W re cooling needs for 10k-rpm HDs.
You can assume what you wish.


Likewise a CD-ROM may draw only a few watts, but a high end
DVD-R/RAM/CDR writer multi-drive can draw 18-25W at peak.

Not very often tho.

???

Yes but you have to assume it at SOME point re 1) cooling 2) PSU.


That last is a good example of the problem with your
original and you didnt even mention the AMD cpus.

???

Ah now I see. Intel tend to be worst case from a thermal perspective.
--
DB.

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:46:27 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:

that the idle power with commonly used drives is nothing like 10W.

In spades with Dorothy's stupid 20-25W max.

If you check the specs from the manufacturers websites, you''l find that
most current drives do in fact have idle power dissipation around 10W.

Mainstream drives.

150MB/s sata drives;

Power Dissipation
Read/Write 9.00 Watts
Idle 8.75 Watts
Standby 1.20 Watts
Sleep 1.20 Watts

300MB/s sata drives;

Power Dissipation
Read/Write 9.50 Watts
Idle 8.75 Watts
Standby 1.60 Watts
Sleep 1.50 Watts

100MB/s eide drives.

Power Dissipation
Read/Write 8.60 Watts
Idle 8.10 Watts
Standby 1.10 Watts
Sleep 1.00 Watts

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/produ...41&language=en

And from Seagate.

Typical Current (12VDC +/- 5%) 0.433 amps
Startup Current (12VDC +/- 5%) 2.8 amps
Typical Current (5VDC +/- 5%) 0.401 amps
Startup Current (5VDC +/- 5%) 0.841 amps
Power
Seek Power (typ) 12.4 watts
Read/Write Power (typ) 12.8 watts
Idle Power (typ) 7.2 watts


It seems their startup power would be about 38W (2.8*12)+(.8*5). This is
the standard Baracuda drive family. So it seems like Dot may be a little
low with only 20-25W.

http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/...84,701,00.html


--
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Rod Speed wrote:

" Nope, even someone as stupid as you should be able to work out that
the idle power with commonly used drives is nothing like 10W. In spades
with Dorothy's stupid 20-25W max. "



I never agreed or disagreed with either of you. I just pointed out that
it would be interesting to throw those benchmark results into the
argument. They are done by a team of people likely to have more
expertise on the matter than anyone in this argument.

Here are some more benchmark results out there which you can use:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/.../hddpower.html

Wes Newell wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Cuzman wrote
Rod Speed wrote
John Jordan wrote
Rod Speed wrote
John Jordan wrote

idle: 10W

Thats nothing like typical for 7200 rpm drives.

load: 24W

And neither is that.

It's an extremely common drive (at least in the UK),

Most current drives dont idle at 10W.

Select the drop-down menu. Choose each of the bottom four tests
and sort. The second resulting table lists the numbers clearer.

http://www.storagereview.com/comparison.html

That should put the cat among the pigeons.

that the idle power with commonly used drives is nothing like 10W.

In spades with Dorothy's stupid 20-25W max.

If you check the specs from the manufacturers websites, you''l find that
most current drives do in fact have idle power dissipation around 10W.

Says he ignoring the storagereview data.

The reason for that is that the datasheet numbers are worst case numbers.

Mainstream drives.

150MB/s sata drives;

Power Dissipation
Read/Write 9.00 Watts
Idle 8.75 Watts
Standby 1.20 Watts
Sleep 1.20 Watts

300MB/s sata drives;

Power Dissipation
Read/Write 9.50 Watts
Idle 8.75 Watts
Standby 1.60 Watts
Sleep 1.50 Watts

100MB/s eide drives.

Power Dissipation
Read/Write 8.60 Watts
Idle 8.10 Watts
Standby 1.10 Watts
Sleep 1.00 Watts

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/produ...41&language=en

And from Seagate.

Typical Current (12VDC +/- 5%) 0.433 amps
Startup Current (12VDC +/- 5%) 2.8 amps
Typical Current (5VDC +/- 5%) 0.401 amps
Startup Current (5VDC +/- 5%) 0.841 amps
Power
Seek Power (typ) 12.4 watts
Read/Write Power (typ) 12.8 watts
Idle Power (typ) 7.2 watts

None of those are 10W or the 20-25W max in spades.

It seems their startup power would be about 38W (2.8*12)+(.8*5).
This is the standard Baracuda drive family. So it seems like Dot
may be a little low with only 20-25W.

http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/...84,701,00.html

http://www.storagereview.com/comparison.html

Cuzman wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Nope, even someone as stupid as you should be able to work out that the idle power with
commonly used drives is nothing like 10W. In spades with Dorothy's stupid 20-25W max.

I never agreed or disagreed with either of you.

You did make that silly claim about the cat and pigeons.

I just pointed out that it would be interesting to throw those benchmark results into
the argument. They are done by a team of people likely to have more expertise on the
matter than anyone in this argument.

It aint about expertise, just bothering to measure it.

Here are some more benchmark results out there which you can use:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/.../hddpower.html

Which dumps on Dorothy's numbers too, like I said.

And suffers from the problem that datasheets always
have, the datasheet numbers are worst case numbers.

Dorothy Bradbury wrote:

For HD I stated...
o 7200rpm 3.5" -- 10W at idle,

And that is overstating it.

o Go to any of the HD maker websites
o Download the manufacturers specification
o Read it.

Datasheet numbers are worst case numbers and
STILL most arent 10W with current desktop drives.

What makes a lot more sense is
http://www.storagereview.com/comparison.html
which shows nothing like what you claimed.

In spades with the max number.

Stick an ammeter on a current Barracuda & older Barracuda.

There might just be a few more drives around than those.

Do not use the 2A fused range during startup obviously.

Likewise a CD-ROM may draw only a few watts, but a high end
DVD-R/RAM/CDR writer multi-drive can draw 18-25W at peak.

Not very often tho.

PCs have a range of wattage draw re idle/loaded...
o Base end office Cel2.0, integrated graphics, 1 HD, 1 optical
o idle -- 85W with 17" TFT, 95W with 19" TFT
o load -- 120W for 17" TFT, 130W with 19" TFT

Irrelevant to that bit about DVD-R/RAM/CDR writers.

o 10000rpm 3.5" -- assume 30W re cooling needs

Bad assumption.

You really are a troll.

You really are a pathetic excuse for a bull**** artist.

HD spec of 8-17W can not be applied to cooling needs...

Depends entirely on the case design.

o 8-17W is not distributed evenly over the whole drive
---- a HD is Actuator, Spindle Assembly, PCB Components

Irrelevant to your silly claim about 30W

o 8-17W may be focused in specific components
---- with specific maximum operating temps
---- requiring specific linear feet per min of airflow

Irrelevant to your silly claim about 30W

o Providing cooling for 8-17W ignores local needs
---- thermal shadowing by other components
---- thermal shadowing by case design & HD positioning

Irrelevant to your silly claim about 30W

Stick 2x 10,000rpm HD against one another in a drive cage.

Only the stupid do something as stupid.

Provide sufficient cooling for 2x 8-17W drives.

Or dont have them adjacent, stupid.

I will provide the data recovery firm name to use...

I'm not stupid enough to need them.

o Motor-IC overheats from lack of linear-feet-per-min airflow
o Motor-IC dumps heat into surroundings, motor/spindle heat
o Motor-spindle dumps heat into FDB accelerating aging
o FDB aging causes higher current draw (startup & continuous)
---- S.M.A.R.T. data measures startup Ima &/or startup Tsecs
o Higher current draw heats motor/spindle & Motor-IC
---- Reinforcing System Loop of increasing thermal dissipation

Only in that terminally stupid config.

Same thing happens more slowly with HDs anyway - hence the
older a HD the higher the startup current & higher op current.

Add another HD because the old one is too small, fit them too
close & you can accelerate the demise of the old one by temps.

Only the stupid do things that stupidly.

I would assume 30W re cooling needs for 10k-rpm HDs.

You can assume anything you like. Anyone
with a clue doesnt use such a stupid config.

You can assume what you wish.

I dont assume, I measure, thanks.

Likewise a CD-ROM may draw only a few watts, but a high end
DVD-R/RAM/CDR writer multi-drive can draw 18-25W at peak.

Not very often tho.

???

Its a very simple sentence, even you should be able to manage it.

Yes but you have to assume it at SOME point re 1) cooling 2) PSU.

Nope.

That last is a good example of the problem with your
original and you didnt even mention the AMD cpus.

???

Ah now I see. Intel tend to be worst case from a thermal perspective.

Wrong, as always.