Epson printers are electronic theieves

"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
news:nhL4f.223845$tl2.98555@pd7tw3no...
This is contrary to everything I know about warranty legislation, but
"jolly ol' England" may have it's own odd notions, I suppose.

I will bow out of this discussion and allow others who live in the UK to
enter into it, as I'm sure they either are more knowledgeable, or have
easier access to the legislation than I do here in Canada.

Could someone who lives in England please research as to whether
warranties are typically or legislated to be transferred to a product when
it is an exchange provided by the manufacturer or his official agent for
the balance of the warranty period not yet used? I find the concept of
the warranty dying with a product exchange absurd, but who knows, it
wouldn't be the first time absurd concepts were law.

I am beginning to suspect the Epson service depot you went to was not
really fully authorized by Epson.

Art

The product must be "fit for the purpose it was sold for" and it must do so
for no less than 1 year. In the EU it is two years. Some companies come
clean some don't. It is advised to purchase anything over £100 with a
credit card. The company is then jointly liable and if they can't get
satisfaction on your behalf then they themselves must cough up.

Arthur Entlichwrote:
quote="Arthur Entlich"] but
"jolly ol' England" may have it's own odd notions, I suppose.

Darn right there Art, they cocked the BSE (mad cow disease) up and now
the same gang are spouting about the bird flu...l..o..l.............
saying 50,000 of us could go AWOL or feet pointing up here in the UK
(couldn't resist that).

OK, best get back on topic...!

I don't know what there status was, but something somewhere is totally
not right, obviously you can expect variations in regional policies
but nothing to that extent I would have thought.

Davy

We have a similar act in our province here in Canada with similar
wording. It makes the retailer responsible for the products they sell,
and basically states that goods should perform for the purpose they are
advertised and sold for, and they should function for a "reasonable
time". That is defined as the amount of time, based upon the cost and
value of the item, and it's nature, that a "reasonable man" would assume
to expect of it. All very vague terms, but the Courts tend to be able
to sort it out when it goes on the skids.

In today's market, I would suspect an inkjet printer would be expected
to last 12-18 months. I consider this low, but others probably will not.

Regarding exchanges of warranty, here, the full leftover warranty is
expected to transfer to a replacement goods provided by the manufacturer
or his agent. However, in the case that a product is nearing the end of
it's warranty, should a repair or replacement be made, a reasonable
nominal warranty must be provided which might extend the warranty period
while the person determines that the repaired or replaced item is
satisfactory (usually 30-90 days beyond the original warranty).


Art

wrote:

In message nhL4f.223845$tl2.98555@pd7tw3no, Arthur Entlich
writes

This is contrary to everything I know about warranty legislation, but
"jolly ol' England" may have it's own odd notions, I suppose.

I will bow out of this discussion and allow others who live in the UK
to enter into it, as I'm sure they either are more knowledgeable, or
have easier access to the legislation than I do here in Canada.

Could someone who lives in England please research as to whether
warranties are typically or legislated to be transferred to a product
when it is an exchange provided by the manufacturer or his official
agent for the balance of the warranty period not yet used? I find the
concept of the warranty dying with a product exchange absurd, but who
knows, it wouldn't be the first time absurd concepts were law.

I am beginning to suspect the Epson service depot you went to was not
really fully authorized by Epson.

I reckon it should continue on to the replacement product (for a reduced
number of months). However, on top of the guarantee we also have a Sale
of Goods Act saying that goods should be fit for purpose, part of which
is that they should last a reasonable[1] time.

[1] 'Reasonable' being one of these silly words that the court has to
decide upon its meaning in an individual case.

Arthur Entlichwrote:
quote="Arthur Entlich"]OK, it's about time for some official Epson
commentary.

I am going to email Epson UK as soon as you clarify what happened to

you, so I can get clarification from them.


Oh not again....!

I purchased a C62, it clogged on the 2nd day, I give it a nozzle
clean, it worked for quite a while, requiring the odd nozzle clean
which 'appeared to get more and more frequent until it looked
something similar to thos sample I sent you, initailly it began be
leaving odd coloured lines on plain text docuoment, these line where
straight as if made by a ruler but was 'broken', i.e not continuous.

Needless to say printing a text document was out, the pictures from
memory consisted of a one inch yellow border to the left and
underneath the picture and black lines to the right of the picture.

Epson was contacted I learned never to give more than 6 nozzle cleans
or the heads would be damaged this coming from the Technical
department, customer services had me doing cleaning test's and then
I went through the proceedure again with the Technical Engineer, so
much so I almost wasted a brand new ink tank.

Something like 6 months down the line the printer was exchanged by the
local Epson Centre, I got home and no documents was returned, the
replacement came in a plain box with Epson security labels and minus
instructions, warrenty and ink tanks.

This replacement started top roduce exactly the same effects and
clogged on the 4th day, the samples that I sent you was done on this
replacement printer, exactly the same lines, exactly the same colours
and exactly the same spot, from memory this printer lasted about 8
months, during this period the printer printed without flaws and
requiring the odd nozzle clean which gradually got worse until it
started showing the same effects as the first one.

Like a stupid idiot I used Epson OEM inks...! More was wasted than
actually went on paper.

I again got onto Epson, again more cleans, so much so I was told to
take it to an Epson Centre and was told the warrnty could not be
transfered over nor was the replacement guaranteed and that I would
have to pay.

I then wrote two letter's of complaint to Epson UK, the only reply I
got was from one letter, the letter that you have seen.

I can not recall the dates nor the serial numbers of either, one of
them is in a hole in the ground where it best belongs...!

I have no arguments Arthur with you even if you send all my post to
Epson, so I will take this opportunity in saying-:

"If it clogs it'a an Epson" and as a special treat-:


An ode to Epson

I bought a brand new printer
it gleams and shine at me.
It prints such lovely photos
this Epson great for me.

My digi-cam is bristling
with happy memories.
I'll do some prints so as to keep
to bring a smile or two.

The first few prints looked so great
the next few looked aghast.
Off to the shop I ran and ran
to buy some new ink tanks.

In they went with such great ease
I started to print again.
I gaped in awe and wondered why
the picture looked aghast.

I did some cleaning cycles
til' my new inks tanks died.
Off to the shop I ran again
for new ink tanks to buy.

I tried on phone to get some help
I've even tried the net.
My new and gleaming Epson
just sits and stairs at me.

I tried and tried and tried again
to get the darn thing go.
I wasted many Epson tanks
till all my cash ran low.

I give the darn thing up at last
no prints from them there snaps.
A load of wasted paper
and loads of empty tanks.

davy

Art Have a look here-:

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/fa...legoodsact.htm

It's far too large to paste here but if you feel I should do so I will
post under a new heading.

Snippets-:

Quote:
• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor
defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.
• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods
do not conform to contract.

Q7. Do I have to produce a receipt to claim my rights?

No. In fact the trader doesn't have to give you a receipt in the first
place so it would be unfair to say that you had to produce one.
However, it might not be unreasonable for the shop to want some proof
of purchase, so look to see if you have a cheque stub, bank statement,
credit card slip etc., and this should be sufficient. Unquote:

Davy

IT SOUNDS LIKE EPSON UK AND EPSON USA ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT COMPANIES.
IT SEEMS THE PEOPLE WHO WORK AT EPSON UK HAVE CORKS UP THEIR ASS.

Davy wrote:

Arthur Entlichwrote:


quote="Arthur Entlich"]OK, it's about time for some official Epson
commentary.


I am going to email Epson UK as soon as you clarify what happened to





you, so I can get clarification from them.




Oh not again....!

I purchased a C62, it clogged on the 2nd day, I give it a nozzle
clean, it worked for quite a while, requiring the odd nozzle clean
which 'appeared to get more and more frequent until it looked
something similar to thos sample I sent you, initailly it began be
leaving odd coloured lines on plain text docuoment, these line where
straight as if made by a ruler but was 'broken', i.e not continuous.

Needless to say printing a text document was out, the pictures from
memory consisted of a one inch yellow border to the left and
underneath the picture and black lines to the right of the picture.

Epson was contacted I learned never to give more than 6 nozzle cleans
or the heads would be damaged this coming from the Technical
department, customer services had me doing cleaning test's and then
I went through the proceedure again with the Technical Engineer, so
much so I almost wasted a brand new ink tank.

Something like 6 months down the line the printer was exchanged by the
local Epson Centre, I got home and no documents was returned, the
replacement came in a plain box with Epson security labels and minus
instructions, warrenty and ink tanks.

This replacement started top roduce exactly the same effects and
clogged on the 4th day, the samples that I sent you was done on this
replacement printer, exactly the same lines, exactly the same colours
and exactly the same spot, from memory this printer lasted about 8
months, during this period the printer printed without flaws and
requiring the odd nozzle clean which gradually got worse until it
started showing the same effects as the first one.

Like a stupid idiot I used Epson OEM inks...! More was wasted than
actually went on paper.

I again got onto Epson, again more cleans, so much so I was told to
take it to an Epson Centre and was told the warrnty could not be
transfered over nor was the replacement guaranteed and that I would
have to pay.

I then wrote two letter's of complaint to Epson UK, the only reply I
got was from one letter, the letter that you have seen.

I can not recall the dates nor the serial numbers of either, one of
them is in a hole in the ground where it best belongs...!

I have no arguments Arthur with you even if you send all my post to
Epson, so I will take this opportunity in saying-:

"If it clogs it'a an Epson" and as a special treat-:


An ode to Epson

I bought a brand new printer
it gleams and shine at me.
It prints such lovely photos
this Epson great for me.

My digi-cam is bristling
with happy memories.
I'll do some prints so as to keep
to bring a smile or two.

The first few prints looked so great
the next few looked aghast.
Off to the shop I ran and ran
to buy some new ink tanks.

In they went with such great ease
I started to print again.
I gaped in awe and wondered why
the picture looked aghast.

I did some cleaning cycles
til' my new inks tanks died.
Off to the shop I ran again
for new ink tanks to buy.

I tried on phone to get some help
I've even tried the net.
My new and gleaming Epson
just sits and stairs at me.

I tried and tried and tried again
to get the darn thing go.
I wasted many Epson tanks
till all my cash ran low.

I give the darn thing up at last
no prints from them there snaps.
A load of wasted paper
and loads of empty tanks.

davy

measekitewrote:
[quote="measekite"]IT SOUNDS LIKE EPSON UK AND EPSON USA ARE TOTALLY
DIFFERENT COMPANIES.
IT SEEMS THE PEOPLE WHO WORK AT EPSON UK HAVE CORKS UP THEIR ***.

Is that all...? How dya know that then...?

Davy

OK, let's see if I have this correct...

Something like 6 months down the line the printer was exchanged by the
local Epson Centre,


So, the first printer lasted about 6 months before it was replaced by
Epson with a OEM or refurbished model.

from memory this printer lasted about 8
months, during this period the printer printed without flaws and
requiring the odd nozzle clean

The second unit lasted 8 months before it was brought to Epson's
attention as having problems.

Maybe my math is poor, but that's 6 plus 8 months, which comes to 14
months, making it 2 months out of warranty. If that's accurate, then
there is no surprise Epson didn't honor any warranty because, the
warranty has elapsed two months earlier. How long did you expect the
warranty to be?

Am I missing something here?

Art


Davy wrote:

Arthur Entlichwrote:

quote="Arthur Entlich"]OK, it's about time for some official Epson
commentary.

I am going to email Epson UK as soon as you clarify what happened to


you, so I can get clarification from them.



Oh not again....!

I purchased a C62, it clogged on the 2nd day, I give it a nozzle
clean, it worked for quite a while, requiring the odd nozzle clean
which 'appeared to get more and more frequent until it looked
something similar to thos sample I sent you, initailly it began be
leaving odd coloured lines on plain text docuoment, these line where
straight as if made by a ruler but was 'broken', i.e not continuous.

Needless to say printing a text document was out, the pictures from
memory consisted of a one inch yellow border to the left and
underneath the picture and black lines to the right of the picture.

Epson was contacted I learned never to give more than 6 nozzle cleans
or the heads would be damaged this coming from the Technical
department, customer services had me doing cleaning test's and then
I went through the proceedure again with the Technical Engineer, so
much so I almost wasted a brand new ink tank.

Something like 6 months down the line the printer was exchanged by the
local Epson Centre, I got home and no documents was returned, the
replacement came in a plain box with Epson security labels and minus
instructions, warrenty and ink tanks.

This replacement started top roduce exactly the same effects and
clogged on the 4th day, the samples that I sent you was done on this
replacement printer, exactly the same lines, exactly the same colours
and exactly the same spot, from memory this printer lasted about 8
months, during this period the printer printed without flaws and
requiring the odd nozzle clean which gradually got worse until it
started showing the same effects as the first one.

Like a stupid idiot I used Epson OEM inks...! More was wasted than
actually went on paper.

I again got onto Epson, again more cleans, so much so I was told to
take it to an Epson Centre and was told the warrnty could not be
transfered over nor was the replacement guaranteed and that I would
have to pay.

I then wrote two letter's of complaint to Epson UK, the only reply I
got was from one letter, the letter that you have seen.

I can not recall the dates nor the serial numbers of either, one of
them is in a hole in the ground where it best belongs...!

I have no arguments Arthur with you even if you send all my post to
Epson, so I will take this opportunity in saying-:

"If it clogs it'a an Epson" and as a special treat-:


An ode to Epson

I bought a brand new printer
it gleams and shine at me.
It prints such lovely photos
this Epson great for me.

My digi-cam is bristling
with happy memories.
I'll do some prints so as to keep
to bring a smile or two.

The first few prints looked so great
the next few looked aghast.
Off to the shop I ran and ran
to buy some new ink tanks.

In they went with such great ease
I started to print again.
I gaped in awe and wondered why
the picture looked aghast.

I did some cleaning cycles
til' my new inks tanks died.
Off to the shop I ran again
for new ink tanks to buy.

I tried on phone to get some help
I've even tried the net.
My new and gleaming Epson
just sits and stairs at me.

I tried and tried and tried again
to get the darn thing go.
I wasted many Epson tanks
till all my cash ran low.

I give the darn thing up at last
no prints from them there snaps.
A load of wasted paper
and loads of empty tanks.

davy

Hi Davy,

I went to the source and read the full document. I appears to me
several things:

1) It's a pretty good law and pretty clear, and it protects consumers
quite well

2) You could have pursued this with the retailer (trader) from whom you
bought the printer, and according to the document, you still can

In this case your remedy would be a partial refund or repair.

Regarding the warranty with Epson, this document is not relevant at all,
as it has nothing to do with the manufacturer. Other laws likely apply.

However, unless I've misunderstood your recent posting, you got your
full warranty from Epson from the two printers.

You may still have a legal remedy with the original dealer, should you
wish to pursue it. The onus of proof after 6 months is placed upon you.
The length of the sale of goods action can be as long as 6 years in
the UK.

Art

Davy wrote:

Art Have a look here-:

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/fa...legoodsact.htm

It's far too large to paste here but if you feel I should do so I will
post under a new heading.

Snippets-:

Quote:
Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor
defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.
It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods
do not conform to contract.

Q7. Do I have to produce a receipt to claim my rights?

No. In fact the trader doesn't have to give you a receipt in the first
place so it would be unfair to say that you had to produce one.
However, it might not be unreasonable for the shop to want some proof
of purchase, so look to see if you have a cheque stub, bank statement,
credit card slip etc., and this should be sufficient. Unquote:

Davy

Arthur Entlichwrote:
[quote="Arthur Entlich"]OK, let's see if I have this correct...OK,
let's see if I have this correct...[/quote:ab37a14642]

Yep, that is correct I expected a 12 month warranty on the first
printer and I expected the warranty to be transferred over to the
exchanged printer at the 'least' , in which case I would have taken
it back and let them deal with the problem.

If the unit was out of warrenty I would have understood, yes I did say
6 months and 8 months 'it IS' quite clear I did NOT say 4 months and
7 months for example (yes I can add up), you will be aware that some
time was spent on trying to correct this problem my self prior to
joining this NG.

The unit was exchanged for one in a plain box with Epson security
tape, minus ink tanks (and also warrenty and instructions - but
forget these), does this sound like a factory referb unit.. and would
this carry any warrenty..?

When I enquired, ..."please note I said enquired", I was told that the
warranty could not be transferred over to the replacement printer, I
didn't
argue nor bother to ask why..? as if two printers went the same way
I'm pretty sure the third one is.

In the first instant prior to the exchange I asked if I could replace
the printer with a better model paying the extra, "no", came the
reply and I'm mighty glad I couldn't.

Davy