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#1
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Clone XP Professional from HD to SSD
Hi,
I upgraded XP Professional to Windows 7 Professional via an upgrade disk to / on a HD, which was successful, and running for quite some time, successfully as well. How can I transfer all of this to a new SSD and continue on? Thanks. Don |
#2
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Clone XP Professional from HD to SSD
dont wrote:
Hi, I upgraded XP Professional to Windows 7 Professional via an upgrade disk to / on a HD, which was successful, and running for quite some time, successfully as well. How can I transfer all of this to a new SSD and continue on? Thanks. Don Bueller?.. Bueller?.. Bueller?.. Anybody? |
#3
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Clone XP Professional from HD to SSD
dont wrote:
dont wrote: Hi, I upgraded XP Professional to Windows 7 Professional via an upgrade disk to / on a HD, which was successful, and running for quite some time, successfully as well. How can I transfer all of this to a new SSD and continue on? Thanks. Don Bueller?.. Bueller?.. Bueller?.. Anybody? I can describe the issues for you, but I don't know the answer. Hard drives use CHS (cylinder-head-sector) in the MBR primary partition tables. Disks have long since passed being reasonably described by this scheme, and they use the (redundant) LBA information instead. The CHS uses a bogus sectors per track number, as a kind of flag. When an installer sets up the disk, it writes in there, that there are "255 heads" and "63 sectors per track". If you watch what the WinXP (and earlier) OSes do, they'll align to a track. That's why, the MBR is at sector 0, then they "skip" 62 sectors, then on the 63rd sector, the first partition begins. There might be another wasted 63 sectors, between the first partition and the second partition. The hard drive couldn't give a rat's ass about this, and the hard drive is blissfully unaware of the silly game being played. On the one hand, CHS is "bogus" for large disks, and yet the partitioning process takes it into account and applies an alignment consistent with the bogus and unused CHS information. OK, so from that, we might guess (rightly or wrongly), that both the WinXP and Windows 7 partitions are offset from the beginning of the disk, by a multiple of 63 sectors. In addition, the partition size might also be a multiple of 63 sectors (try dividing total sectors by 63 and see). You can check this all out (and see if the previous two statements are correct or not), with a utility like this (run this elevated in Windows 7, or you'll get an "error 5" or the like). ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/englis...s/PTEDIT32.zip Now, the SSD on the other hand, from a hardware perspective, has "flash pages". For performance reasons, it's best to achieve some kind of alignment between the file system and the flash pages. If you use the Windows 7 installer on a blank SSD, then chances are, Windows 7 will use a power_of_two alignment. It's somewhere around 8 or 16 flash pages or so, from the beginning of the disk, to where the partition starts. Maybe this results in clusters being aligned to flash pages ? If some "data chunk" spans two flash pages, it means read-modify-write on some portion of each page. If clusters were aligned, it might cut down on the fractional writes required. So that's the big win, if you can manage it. So offsetting the partitions isn't a problem. I could probably do that manually with "dd", then go back and doctor the partition table with PTEDIT32 to account for the change. But chances are, *some* piece of software isn't going to be too happy, if the length of the partition isn't also aligned in some way. Maybe it's OK if the partition is still a multiple of 63, and you pad some amount to achieve a power_of_two relationship for the second partition. http://www.chrysocome.net/dd (I use that, when copying sectors) ******* OK, enough with the nonsense. You need a real utility of some sort. There is one utility, already in existence. The "WD_Align" utility, exists to solve the "4KB sector disk problem". The utility is written by Acronis, the download is pretty big, implying lots of functions. The same utility is rebranded, and is also available (plus/minus the same file size in download) from Seagate. Now, could that utility solve the problem ? That would be for further research. I don't know if Acronis included any SSD functions in that utility or not. A second place to look, is the OCZtechnology forums. There are plenty of discussions of "SSD polishing" over there. This should give you a good start. http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...e-working-life. This is a second page of some use, but you have to wade through this and toss out the nonsense. Windows 7 already knows about some of these issues - for example, Windows 7 should not run the defragmenter on your SSD. WinXP though, if you were to attempt to run defrag, is just going to do as you instruct. Windows 7 is at least slightly SSD aware, so it knows better. http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...o-SSD-friendly Depending on the brand of your SSD, it's possible the manufacturer offers some kind of utility. It's the least they could do. Another aspect of SSD operation, is support for the TRIM command. On Windows 7, the "msahci" driver and placing the disk interface in the BIOS in AHCI mode, might be sufficient to get TRIM support. On WinXP, it might require an AHCI driver added via pressing F6 when the OS was installed. It's not going to be a lot of fun fixing that now. Depending on your motherboard chipset, you'll find some discussions about TRIM, over here. http://communities.intel.com/thread/11845 One of the reasons I didn't attempt an answer before, is I don't own an SSD, and have no first hand experience with how these things go. I usually forget all I've read, by the time a question like this comes up again. There is some info out there, which can give you some guidance. But it might not be written in "easy recipe form" though. Have fun, Paul |
#4
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Clone XP Professional from HD to SSD
Paul wrote:
dont wrote: dont wrote: Hi, I upgraded XP Professional to Windows 7 Professional via an upgrade disk to / on a HD, which was successful, and running for quite some time, successfully as well. How can I transfer all of this to a new SSD and continue on? Thanks. Don Bueller?.. Bueller?.. Bueller?.. Anybody? I can describe the issues for you, but I don't know the answer. Hard drives use CHS (cylinder-head-sector) in the MBR primary partition tables. Disks have long since passed being reasonably described by this scheme, and they use the (redundant) LBA information instead. The CHS uses a bogus sectors per track number, as a kind of flag. When an installer sets up the disk, it writes in there, that there are "255 heads" and "63 sectors per track". If you watch what the WinXP (and earlier) OSes do, they'll align to a track. That's why, the MBR is at sector 0, then they "skip" 62 sectors, then on the 63rd sector, the first partition begins. There might be another wasted 63 sectors, between the first partition and the second partition. The hard drive couldn't give a rat's ass about this, and the hard drive is blissfully unaware of the silly game being played. On the one hand, CHS is "bogus" for large disks, and yet the partitioning process takes it into account and applies an alignment consistent with the bogus and unused CHS information. OK, so from that, we might guess (rightly or wrongly), that both the WinXP and Windows 7 partitions are offset from the beginning of the disk, by a multiple of 63 sectors. In addition, the partition size might also be a multiple of 63 sectors (try dividing total sectors by 63 and see). You can check this all out (and see if the previous two statements are correct or not), with a utility like this (run this elevated in Windows 7, or you'll get an "error 5" or the like). ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/englis...s/PTEDIT32.zip Now, the SSD on the other hand, from a hardware perspective, has "flash pages". For performance reasons, it's best to achieve some kind of alignment between the file system and the flash pages. If you use the Windows 7 installer on a blank SSD, then chances are, Windows 7 will use a power_of_two alignment. It's somewhere around 8 or 16 flash pages or so, from the beginning of the disk, to where the partition starts. Maybe this results in clusters being aligned to flash pages ? If some "data chunk" spans two flash pages, it means read-modify-write on some portion of each page. If clusters were aligned, it might cut down on the fractional writes required. So that's the big win, if you can manage it. So offsetting the partitions isn't a problem. I could probably do that manually with "dd", then go back and doctor the partition table with PTEDIT32 to account for the change. But chances are, *some* piece of software isn't going to be too happy, if the length of the partition isn't also aligned in some way. Maybe it's OK if the partition is still a multiple of 63, and you pad some amount to achieve a power_of_two relationship for the second partition. http://www.chrysocome.net/dd (I use that, when copying sectors) ******* OK, enough with the nonsense. You need a real utility of some sort. There is one utility, already in existence. The "WD_Align" utility, exists to solve the "4KB sector disk problem". The utility is written by Acronis, the download is pretty big, implying lots of functions. The same utility is rebranded, and is also available (plus/minus the same file size in download) from Seagate. Now, could that utility solve the problem ? That would be for further research. I don't know if Acronis included any SSD functions in that utility or not. A second place to look, is the OCZtechnology forums. There are plenty of discussions of "SSD polishing" over there. This should give you a good start. http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...e-working-life. This is a second page of some use, but you have to wade through this and toss out the nonsense. Windows 7 already knows about some of these issues - for example, Windows 7 should not run the defragmenter on your SSD. WinXP though, if you were to attempt to run defrag, is just going to do as you instruct. Windows 7 is at least slightly SSD aware, so it knows better. http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...o-SSD-friendly Depending on the brand of your SSD, it's possible the manufacturer offers some kind of utility. It's the least they could do. Another aspect of SSD operation, is support for the TRIM command. On Windows 7, the "msahci" driver and placing the disk interface in the BIOS in AHCI mode, might be sufficient to get TRIM support. On WinXP, it might require an AHCI driver added via pressing F6 when the OS was installed. It's not going to be a lot of fun fixing that now. Depending on your motherboard chipset, you'll find some discussions about TRIM, over here. http://communities.intel.com/thread/11845 One of the reasons I didn't attempt an answer before, is I don't own an SSD, and have no first hand experience with how these things go. I usually forget all I've read, by the time a question like this comes up again. There is some info out there, which can give you some guidance. But it might not be written in "easy recipe form" though. Have fun, Paul Thanks Paul, A lot to chew on ... Don |
#5
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Clone XP Professional from HD to SSD
dont wrote:
Thanks Paul, A lot to chew on ... Don You can just copy the contents of the hard drive, to the SSD. That will work. Bottom line, the SSD still respects 512 byte sectors, and is a block oriented device. It'll do, whatever you tell it to do. It's the performance level that's an issue. The SSD will still be fast. But not as fast, as if you do the job right. If you're in a hurry, you can ignore everything I wrote in the other post, and just copy it over. GParted or some free partition utility (like Easeus) can probably do that for you. Some examples of partition managers are here. Who knows, maybe one of them already knows what to do with an SSD :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_manager Paul |
#6
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Clone XP Professional from HD to SSD
Paul wrote:
dont wrote: Thanks Paul, A lot to chew on ... Don You can just copy the contents of the hard drive, to the SSD. That will work. Bottom line, the SSD still respects 512 byte sectors, and is a block oriented device. It'll do, whatever you tell it to do. It's the performance level that's an issue. The SSD will still be fast. But not as fast, as if you do the job right. If you're in a hurry, you can ignore everything I wrote in the other post, and just copy it over. GParted or some free partition utility (like Easeus) can probably do that for you. Some examples of partition managers are here. Who knows, maybe one of them already knows what to do with an SSD :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_manager Paul Paul, Thank you for all of the pointers and links. It is very helpful and useful information. Don |
#7
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Clone XP Professional from HD to SSD
On 2011-07-19, Paul wrote:
Now, the SSD on the other hand, from a hardware perspective, has "flash pages". For performance reasons, it's best to achieve some kind of alignment between the file system and the flash pages. If you use the Windows 7 installer on a blank SSD, then chances are, Windows 7 will use a power_of_two alignment. It's somewhere around 8 or 16 flash pages or so, from the beginning of the disk, to where the partition starts. Maybe this results in clusters being aligned to flash pages ? If some "data chunk" spans two flash pages, it means read-modify-write on some portion of each page. If clusters were aligned, it might cut down on the fractional writes required. So that's the big win, if you can manage it. As I understand things, a SSD has to delete a whole block and then write back the new file. If another file spans across the blocks then then this does not work as another file, or part there of will be wiped. After some time the disk fills up with junk unless it has the junk blocks deleted. SSD's are worn out by writes, but not reads, so best use is the OS and programmes where all that reading goes on. Put the data on a mechanical drive. Start your first partition on 2048 to align things. |
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