Which printer for printing much pages (more than 1.000 a day)

Hello,

I am searching for a printer that can handle more than 1000 pages
alone (so that I do not have to remove printed pages from printer).

What I found yet is a used solution from Lexmark Optra that has a 1500
paper input and 2350 paper output capacity, it costs about 700$
(used).

Do you know a solution for under 1.300$, laser or inkjet is okay, it
doesn't matter.

Johannes Zalned wrote:
Hello,

I am searching for a printer that can handle more than 1000 pages
alone (so that I do not have to remove printed pages from printer).

What I found yet is a used solution from Lexmark Optra that has a 1500
paper input and 2350 paper output capacity, it costs about 700$
(used).

Do you know a solution for under 1.300$, laser or inkjet is okay, it
doesn't matter.

1000pp/day is a very high throughput, which means that the choice is
rather more complicated that it appears. You're actually asking about a
industrial strength machine of the kind that a professional print shop
or a large office will use. Is that what you are planning? If so, I
would strongly advise you to go see the people who sell machines to
professional print shops - they will give you much better advice about
particular machines than you can get here. We're mostly home and small
office users, AFAICT.

That being said, here's my take on what matters most in your decision: a
service contract.

A service contract is IMO abolutely essential for your intended use.
Make sure you explain the rate at which you will print - most service
contracts assume a few hundred to a few thousand pages per month, and
you will exceed that several times over. The service contract should
cover all parts, labour, and consumables, no questions asked -- plus
training for you and your staff. (Service contracts don't usually
include paper, but you may want to make a deal on that, too.)

If the supplier will not provide a service contract tailored to your
printing needs, go to another supplier. In this respect, brand of
printer is far less important than service. You are going to really push
the printer to its limits.

The service contract should be structured so that you pay a flat fee for
your expected average monthly usage, and a per page price over and above
that. From my investigations, I would say that the contract should
average out to less than 3 cents a page, and on the high volume you
expect it could well be under 2 cents a page.

The Optra has a very good reputation, which unfortunately I cannot
confirm from personal experience. If you are buying it refurbished, from
a reputable office supply store, with a reasonable srevice contract, it
is probably a good buy. You need to know more about its expected life, I
think.

HTH&GL

In article ,
Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:
Johannes Zalned wrote:
Hello,

I am searching for a printer that can handle more than 1000 pages
alone (so that I do not have to remove printed pages from printer).

What I found yet is a used solution from Lexmark Optra that has a 1500
paper input and 2350 paper output capacity, it costs about 700$
(used).

Do you know a solution for under 1.300$, laser or inkjet is okay, it
doesn't matter.

1000pp/day is a very high throughput, which means that the choice is
rather more complicated that it appears. You're actually asking about a
industrial strength machine of the kind that a professional print shop
or a large office will use. Is that what you are planning? If so, I
would strongly advise you to go see the people who sell machines to
professional print shops - they will give you much better advice about
particular machines than you can get here. We're mostly home and small
office users, AFAICT.

That being said, here's my take on what matters most in your decision: a
service contract.

A service contract is IMO abolutely essential for your intended use.
Make sure you explain the rate at which you will print - most service
contracts assume a few hundred to a few thousand pages per month, and
you will exceed that several times over. The service contract should
cover all parts, labour, and consumables, no questions asked -- plus
training for you and your staff. (Service contracts don't usually
include paper, but you may want to make a deal on that, too.)

If the supplier will not provide a service contract tailored to your
printing needs, go to another supplier. In this respect, brand of
printer is far less important than service. You are going to really push
the printer to its limits.

The service contract should be structured so that you pay a flat fee for
your expected average monthly usage, and a per page price over and above
that. From my investigations, I would say that the contract should
average out to less than 3 cents a page, and on the high volume you
expect it could well be under 2 cents a page.

The Optra has a very good reputation, which unfortunately I cannot
confirm from personal experience. If you are buying it refurbished, from
a reputable office supply store, with a reasonable srevice contract, it
is probably a good buy. You need to know more about its expected life, I
think.

HTH&GL

Agreed with the above.

HP makes printers rated up to 300k pages/month with lots of optional
add-ons that you might find interesting.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...51-236263.html

HP next-day onsite service has always been very good for me. I never
needed same-day service but I know they'll do it. 3rd party
maintenance can be very good but get some advice about the service
contract.




--

a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

Thanks for all your good advices.

I was thinking about a service contract but I think in my project it's
not that important: I want to print A4-Books with each 100 pages and
if the printer does not work I just can go to a near copy shop for a
few days. What I am searching for is a solution that's not that
pricey. I have found more options:

1. Lexmark Optra S 1650 with 2.000 Paper Input and 2.200 Paper Output
capacity, 36 MB and Postscript, 16ppm simplex duplex maybe 8ppm,
Parallel port only for 360 $

2. HP Laserjet 5Si with 3.000 Paper Input and 2.300 Paper Output
capacity, 16 MB, simplex 24 ppm duplex maybe 12 ppm, Parallel port
only for 700$

3. HP Laserjet 4350 (new) with 1000 Paper Input and 500 Paper Output
capacity and amazing simplex 50 ppm duplex maybe 40 ppm for around
1600$

What about speed in duplex mode, I heard that the speed differs much
from the simplex speed? And are the first two printers today that
robust that they can handle around 2000 pages without interfering from
me? What about parallel port? Is the printer faster if I will add a
network card to it or is the parallel port enough?

And maybe someone knows something about Lexmark Optra S 1650, I would
like to know if I can add two 1.850 paper output trays to it and also
if it's possible to add more than one 1.000 paper input to it.

The Lexmark solution is the cheapest and if something happens I just
can throw away all the staff, it's just around 360$ ! The Laserjet 5Si
solution seems to be a pretty solution that's more solid, although
it's very big because of the big sorter (for paper output). The
Laserjet 4350 is extremly expensive in relation to the other used
solutions but maybe I do not need a paper tray if the printer is so
fast, I can just sit next to my printer.

In article ,
Johannes Zalned wrote:
Thanks for all your good advices.

I was thinking about a service contract but I think in my project it's
not that important: I want to print A4-Books with each 100 pages and
if the printer does not work I just can go to a near copy shop for a
few days. What I am searching for is a solution that's not that
pricey. I have found more options:

1. Lexmark Optra S 1650 with 2.000 Paper Input and 2.200 Paper Output
capacity, 36 MB and Postscript, 16ppm simplex duplex maybe 8ppm,
Parallel port only for 360 $

2. HP Laserjet 5Si with 3.000 Paper Input and 2.300 Paper Output
capacity, 16 MB, simplex 24 ppm duplex maybe 12 ppm, Parallel port
only for 700$

3. HP Laserjet 4350 (new) with 1000 Paper Input and 500 Paper Output
capacity and amazing simplex 50 ppm duplex maybe 40 ppm for around
1600$

What about speed in duplex mode, I heard that the speed differs much
from the simplex speed? And are the first two printers today that
robust that they can handle around 2000 pages without interfering from
me? What about parallel port? Is the printer faster if I will add a
network card to it or is the parallel port enough?

And maybe someone knows something about Lexmark Optra S 1650, I would
like to know if I can add two 1.850 paper output trays to it and also
if it's possible to add more than one 1.000 paper input to it.

The Lexmark solution is the cheapest and if something happens I just
can throw away all the staff, it's just around 360$ ! The Laserjet 5Si
solution seems to be a pretty solution that's more solid, although
it's very big because of the big sorter (for paper output). The
Laserjet 4350 is extremly expensive in relation to the other used
solutions but maybe I do not need a paper tray if the printer is so
fast, I can just sit next to my printer.


get some sort of on-site contract. You don't want to box and ship one
of these puppies for some small adjustment. At the very least,
identify a local printer repair guy that knows your model and keep his
card. If your machine is covered under the Manufacturer's warranty
his services should come cheap since all the parts are paid for. His
time will be cheaper than the cost of shipping if something has to be
fixed. He can also be a source of refilled toner cartridges if he
guarantees to fix the printer if they screw up.
--

a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

10 Samsung $99 laser printers hooked up to a PC through USB ports.
Simply print the job (1 book each) to each of the 10 printers, and
they'll all hold 100 pages of output w/o you having to touch anything.

Due to the 15+ppm print speed of each printer, you can have all 1000
pages (10 books of 100 pages) printed far faster than any affordable
fast single printer could ever do - about 6.7 minutes total at full
speed rating (even at 10ppm, you'd get the entire 1000 pages or 10 books
printed and done in 10 minutes).

You can use fewer printers, eg. 5 lasers, and simply would print 5 books
simultaneously in 10 minutes, meaning you'd have to come around twice
for 10 books (one for each set of 5 books).

---

If pricing isnt' a killer, you may also investigate the Kinko's remote
printing option - here, you simply load up their software, their
super-fast printers show up as another printer icon, and when you print,
the entire job gets sent to your local Kinko's where it gets printed out
fast on their big ones.

Johannes Zalned wrote:

I was thinking about a service contract but I think in my project it's
not that important: I want to print A4-Books with each 100 pages and
if the printer does not work I just can go to a near copy shop for a
few days.

My experience is that service contracts would be a waste of money on HP
business-class laser printers. The variety of heavily-used printers
I've used lately just do not break. The pads wear, and the fusers need
to be replaced at a 100,000 to 200,000-page interval, but that's easy
and relatively cheap.

There was one LJ 4050 that broke, though: dropped from four feet in the
air onto a concrete floor. Upside down.

It looked like a total loss, with a lot of broken plastic on the top and
sides, and the display pushed in. Just for fun, we tried it. It still
printed. Replacement of the plastic case parts and display was
something like $150, and it still works great.

What I am searching for is a solution that's not that
pricey. I have found more options:

1. Lexmark Optra S 1650 with 2.000 Paper Input and 2.200 Paper Output
capacity, 36 MB and Postscript, 16ppm simplex duplex maybe 8ppm,
Parallel port only for 360 $

Older Lexmark stuff was supposed to be good, although a few models had
problems with PostScript or buffer RAM. Newer stuff...just gives me a
bad feeling.

2. HP Laserjet 5Si with 3.000 Paper Input and 2.300 Paper Output
capacity, 16 MB, simplex 24 ppm duplex maybe 12 ppm, Parallel port
only for 700$

The 5Si is a tough printer. Usually does not have PostScript. I'd
think you could get one cheaper than that, though.

3. HP Laserjet 4350 (new) with 1000 Paper Input and 500 Paper Output
capacity and amazing simplex 50 ppm duplex maybe 40 ppm for around
1600$

A good and very fast printer, but duplex speed is probably not that
fast.

What about speed in duplex mode, I heard that the speed differs much
from the simplex speed?

It would be unusual for duplex speed to be more than half that of
simplex speed. Simplex will go as fast as the printer can go. Duplex
will too, but there will be some overhead time as the paper is flipped.
So expect duplex to be a little less than half as fast as simplex.

And are the first two printers today that robust that they can handle
around 2000 pages without interfering from me?

Don't know about the Lexmark, but if the 5Si wouldn't handle that, there
is something wrong with it.

What about parallel port? Is the printer faster if I will add a
network card to it or is the parallel port enough?

The 4350 comes with Ethernet, the 5Si is MIO--I think--so it would be
cheap to add. The 4350 Ethernet should be at least as fast as parallel,
the older MIO might be slower.

If you want speed, check what you are sending. Big bitmap images are
slow for everything. Small, efficient PostScript files (not
driver-generated!) and PCL are the fastest.

Laserjet 4350 is extremly expensive in relation to the other used
solutions but maybe I do not need a paper tray if the printer is so
fast, I can just sit next to my printer.

For even more money, you can get a 500-sheet stacker or stapler-stacker
for the 4350.

--
Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA

In article ,
Warren Block wrote:
Johannes Zalned wrote:

I was thinking about a service contract but I think in my project it's
not that important: I want to print A4-Books with each 100 pages and
if the printer does not work I just can go to a near copy shop for a
few days.

My experience is that service contracts would be a waste of money on HP
business-class laser printers. The variety of heavily-used printers
I've used lately just do not break. The pads wear, and the fusers need
to be replaced at a 100,000 to 200,000-page interval, but that's easy
and relatively cheap.

There was one LJ 4050 that broke, though: dropped from four feet in the
air onto a concrete floor. Upside down.

It looked like a total loss, with a lot of broken plastic on the top and
sides, and the display pushed in. Just for fun, we tried it. It still
printed. Replacement of the plastic case parts and display was
something like $150, and it still works great.

What I am searching for is a solution that's not that
pricey. I have found more options:

1. Lexmark Optra S 1650 with 2.000 Paper Input and 2.200 Paper Output
capacity, 36 MB and Postscript, 16ppm simplex duplex maybe 8ppm,
Parallel port only for 360 $

Older Lexmark stuff was supposed to be good, although a few models had
problems with PostScript or buffer RAM. Newer stuff...just gives me a
bad feeling.

2. HP Laserjet 5Si with 3.000 Paper Input and 2.300 Paper Output
capacity, 16 MB, simplex 24 ppm duplex maybe 12 ppm, Parallel port
only for 700$

The 5Si is a tough printer. Usually does not have PostScript. I'd
think you could get one cheaper than that, though.

3. HP Laserjet 4350 (new) with 1000 Paper Input and 500 Paper Output
capacity and amazing simplex 50 ppm duplex maybe 40 ppm for around
1600$

A good and very fast printer, but duplex speed is probably not that
fast.

What about speed in duplex mode, I heard that the speed differs much
from the simplex speed?

It would be unusual for duplex speed to be more than half that of
simplex speed. Simplex will go as fast as the printer can go. Duplex
will too, but there will be some overhead time as the paper is flipped.
So expect duplex to be a little less than half as fast as simplex.

And are the first two printers today that robust that they can handle
around 2000 pages without interfering from me?

Don't know about the Lexmark, but if the 5Si wouldn't handle that, there
is something wrong with it.

What about parallel port? Is the printer faster if I will add a
network card to it or is the parallel port enough?

The 4350 comes with Ethernet, the 5Si is MIO--I think--so it would be
cheap to add. The 4350 Ethernet should be at least as fast as parallel,
the older MIO might be slower.

If you want speed, check what you are sending. Big bitmap images are
slow for everything. Small, efficient PostScript files (not
driver-generated!) and PCL are the fastest.

Laserjet 4350 is extremly expensive in relation to the other used
solutions but maybe I do not need a paper tray if the printer is so
fast, I can just sit next to my printer.

For even more money, you can get a 500-sheet stacker or stapler-stacker
for the 4350.

--
Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA


I disagree about having some service agreement on a printer if it's
important to your business, unless you have a resident techie.

As for print speed optimization. Years ago I replaced a business's
1200LPM impact printer and warehouse full of cases of preprinted
multipart forms with a pair of 5Si printers. There were two parts to
this hack that made it a huge financial win;

I found a software package that let us take the form design and
"compile" it and load it into the printer before each print job and it
was "flashed" onto each page. The only data we were sending,
per-page, was a couple hundred digits of data. Almost zero HPCL
overhead. The result was a complex graphic invoice form that printed
at the mechanical speed limit of the printer.

The other part was elimination 3-part forms. The user was sending one
to a customer, one put in binders, on-site for a few months, and one
sent to a warehouse for off-site contingency. We put the invoice data
on his server gave him a simple application that let his customer
service people reprint any invoice on demand and the data has backed
up offsite with everything else.

He paid for the HP printers, and my time in the third month, not even
counting the clerical time to seperate all those 3-part pages each
month.

That was a fun project.






--

a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

On 18 Mar 2005 01:14:20 -0800, (Johannes Zalned)
dijo:

2. HP Laserjet 5Si with 3.000 Paper Input and 2.300 Paper Output
capacity, 16 MB, simplex 24 ppm duplex maybe 12 ppm, Parallel port
only for 700$

I'd strongly vote for the 5Si, or its later incarnations, the 5Si
Mopier (Mopier 240) or the 8000. All are based on the Canon WX engine.
They use the same toner cartridge, are the same speed, and most of the
parts are the same. The rated monthly duty cycle is 130,000 copies.

A great advantage of these printers is cost of consumables. I can get
good quality toner carts for $45, including shipping. These carts are
good for 15,000 copies. There is no other laser printer on the market
that can come close to that cost per copy for toner.

Before going further I need to note that you have one fact incorrect.
The rated speed is 24 ppm simplex and 22 ppm duplexed. I use three of
these to print books (one 5Si and two 8000s). I generally get about 21
ppm duplexed. Considering how manufacturers hype the statistics,
that's about par for the course.

You can get a nice 5Si with low page count on eBay for well under
$300. Shipping can be a bear on these, however, as the base machine
weighs about 100 lbs. You really want to find one where you can drive
to pick it up, not just to save the shipping, but to verify condition.

You can get a nice 8000 with a low page count on eBay for under $500.
I just bought an 8000DN (with duplexer and network card) for $400 and
it had a total page count of under 16,000.

Why did I pay more for the 8000 than it would have cost me to get a
5Si, considering that the speed is the same? The answer is involved
because it deals with the design and marketing of the Canon WX engine
printer.

Canon came up with the original model about 1994. But Canon has no
real marketing ability in the big office printer market. So, while
Canon sold this printer themselves as the LBP24, they also sold the
basic engine to HP, IBM, Lexmark, QMS, and a number of others. Each
vendor made their own outer panels with their name and logo on it.
Some manufacturers changed a few features. For example, on the Lexmark
(they called it the Optra N), the control panel is in the middle,
while on other brands it is to the left. Some "manufacturers" changed
the electronics too. For example, HP came up with "Resolution
Enhancement Technology," which tweaks the basic 600 dpi so it gives
closer to the quality of 1200 dpi.

Of all the vendors of the Canon WX engine, HP sold over 95%. In other
words, Canon's major buyer for this printer was HP.

Over the years each "manufacturer" tweaked the WX engine, giving the
new printer a different model number. For HP there are three basic
levels -- the 5Si family, the Mopier 240 family, and the 8000 family.

The original HP model was the 5Si. If you added the PostScript SIMM
(genuine Adobe), it was labeled the 5SiMx. It came standard with a
Jetdirect (network) card. You could add options, such as the duplexer,
the 2000-sheet feeder, and an output mailbox. You could also add more
RAM and a hard disk. However, the hard disk was useless on the 5Si,
Mopier and 8000 lines, as HP never created drivers to utilize it.

After HP had been selling the 5Si for a while it occurred one day to
some of the suits that they were making more money on toner than they
were making on the printer. Therefore, to increase profits, it would
be desirable to increase toner consumption. Someone came up with the
brilliant idea to get office secretaries to print multiple copies
direclty on the 5Si, instead of making one copy and the running over
to the office copy machine, which was probably a Xerox, one of HP's
competitors.

However, there was a problem with this idea. The 5Si can print
multiple copies, but not collated. If you tell it to print 20 copies
of a report it will print 20 copies of pages 1 and 2, then 20 copies
of pages 3 and 4, and so on. This is not good for the office staff. No
secretary wants to walk around a table collating a long report. (Some
applications can print mulitple copies collated to the 5Si, but they
do so by spooling massive files where each copy is concatenated.)

What was needed was to print multiple copies collated. In other words,
the driver would send the print job just once, together with a counter
for how many copies. The printer would hold the imaged print job in
RAM and just keep printing it over and over. (In the trade this is
sometimes referred to as "RIP once, print many.") HP finally
accomplished this with the Mopier 240. Basically the Mopier 240 is the
same as a 5Si, and uses the same options (PostScript SIMM, duplexer,
2000-sheet feeder, mailbox), but has a redesigned formatter board that
adds the "RIP once, print many" capability.

I took the time to explain this to you because you said you were
printing books. I also print books on my printers. Believe me, the
"RIP once, print many" feature is very handy. It also speeds up
printing because the printer has to image the print job only for the
first copy; thereafter it holds the imaged job in RAM.

HP never sold a lot of the Mopiers. Eventually HP came out with the
8000 line. The 8000 line includes the "RIP once, print many"
capability of the Mopier, and also adds additional features. For
example, instead of adding a genuine Adobe PostScript SIMM to get
PostScript capability, HP licensed PostScript emulation from Xionix
and included it with all the 8000s. They also increased the speed of
the processor from 40 MHz on the 5Si and Mopier to 133 MHz. More
importantly for me, they added new optional accessories. While the 5Si
and Mopiers can take an 8-bin mailbox, the 8000s can take a 3000-sheet
stacker (C4779A). Both my 8000s have the 2000-sheet feeder and the
3000-sheet stacker. I can load up the printers with 3,000 sheets of
paper and go to bed. In the morning the stackers are full and the red
light is blinking asking me to refill the paper trays.

Caveat: These printers are pretty reliable, but jams do occur, so the
above scenario doesn't always happen as I described it. In addition,
tray 3 (the lower 500-sheet tray ont the printer itself) was a bad
idea from the day Canon first engineered it. All three of mine jam
constantly if I try to use tray 3. I just ignore it . Essentially I
figure that I have 2,500 sheet input capacity and 3,000 sheet output
capacity.

I should add that the Canon WX engine printers are good for mllions of
copies. I have over 2 million on the first 8000 I bought and it is
showing no signs of slowing down. Replacement parts are cheap and
readily available because HP sold so many of these printers.

I hope that gives you a little more information. Good luck!

--
Bogus e-mail address, but I read this newsgroup regularly, so reply here.

In article ,
Marek Williams wrote:
On 18 Mar 2005 01:14:20 -0800, (Johannes Zalned)
dijo:

2. HP Laserjet 5Si with 3.000 Paper Input and 2.300 Paper Output
capacity, 16 MB, simplex 24 ppm duplex maybe 12 ppm, Parallel port
only for 700$

I'd strongly vote for the 5Si, or its later incarnations, the 5Si
Mopier (Mopier 240) or the 8000. All are based on the Canon WX engine.
They use the same toner cartridge, are the same speed, and most of the
parts are the same. The rated monthly duty cycle is 130,000 copies.

A great advantage of these printers is cost of consumables. I can get
good quality toner carts for $45, including shipping. These carts are
good for 15,000 copies. There is no other laser printer on the market
that can come close to that cost per copy for toner.

Before going further I need to note that you have one fact incorrect.
The rated speed is 24 ppm simplex and 22 ppm duplexed. I use three of
these to print books (one 5Si and two 8000s). I generally get about 21
ppm duplexed. Considering how manufacturers hype the statistics,
that's about par for the course.

You can get a nice 5Si with low page count on eBay for well under
$300. Shipping can be a bear on these, however, as the base machine
weighs about 100 lbs. You really want to find one where you can drive
to pick it up, not just to save the shipping, but to verify condition.


Tip: If you live in or near a city watch ebay for your printer and
sort the web screen for "closest first". Eventually one will show up
within driving distance. If you contact the seller you might even be
able to see it in operation before you bid on it.
--

a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.