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#21
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Where does a former Dell customer go?
"RMZ" wrote in message ... On Dec 24, 6:07 pm, Ben Myers wrote: RMZ wrote: In the last 15 years I have purchased about ten PCs from Dell. I know that's a small number compared to many businesses, but those were all most for home use. I also recommended countless family and friends to buy a Dell. I would praise the quality, support and price made available by this direct PC maker company. In those early days (and even up until about five years ago, which is the last time I can recall contacting them) Dell support was prompt and the support reps very knowledgeable. Their products were a step ahead of the competition in quality. It's amazing how quickly things have changed. Just in the last six months I know of two instances first hand where Dell product (in both cases Notebook PCs) had serious defects surface within a month of usage. I've heard many second hand stories of problem product coming in such as faulty LCD displays. I've also heard the horror stories of what someone has to go through to get an exchange on a product. A bit over a month ago I experienced this first hand when my mother ordered one of the NetBook DELL PCs. I was in the room with her as the she placed the order by phone. She told the sales rep "I need the one with Windows XP" two and a half weeks later an Ubuntu Linux equipped "NetBook" arrived. I immediately called Dell support, the experience I won't soon forget I would take an oath, what follows is not exaggerated: I placed the call to dell support on a weeknight (around 7:30 PM). I was transferred three times, tallying all wait times between transfers this took 35-minutes. When I finally got in touch with someone in returns/exchanges I was communicating with someone who spoke English with a very thick accent. My time was limited so I had to arrange to call back. I asked if there some direct number I could call to speed up the process the next time I called, I was told "Just call our 800 support number" (so the answer to my question as, No) The next day I called Dell back. I went through the 800 number again and once again had to be transferred. This time I was transferred four times as one rep transferred me to the wrong department (or something), the wait was 38-minutes before talking to someone who could help me. At this point not caring how rude I came across I asked are you based in the US? He paused and said "No sir". While I won't get into the politics of offshoring support, the bottom line is Dell's choose to save a money by offshoring this service had a very negative impact on my customer service experience. It took me about 10-minutes for him to get down my e-mail address. We kept going through the "J as in Jack, E as in Easy, S as in Sam... etc..." we must have done that a dozen times, again his accent was a real wall. I told him what happened with the order (the notes he had from my call the previous day were incomplete apparently). I was told there would be a $50 restocking fee (on a $299 computer mind you) and the fault was assumed to be the customers (i.e. my mother). Since I was in the room with her as the order was placed and I knew she was in the clear, my mind immediately raced to all the other non-tech savy grandmothers out there who might have fallen victim to Dell's return policies. After some tough words were exchanged I was able to get the restocking fee removed. I was told a return label would be coming in my e-mail within three days, this process took over an hour of the phone but I was happy for it all to be done with it, so I thought. Three days past and nothing came. I waited longer... still nothing. Once again I had to call back to Dell support. This time (the week of Christmas) I was on the phone with them for about an hour and a half and was transferred four times (again). My conclusion is that Dell, like so many other great Americans brands has degraded greatly in terms of product quality and support. The only thing that hasn't changes is their moderate pricing, which considering the poor quality of product & support should be considerably less (one would do better to walk into a local retailer and pick up an Acer or Toshiba branded product, made in China with lackluster support but at least priced competitive. Michael Dell should be absolutely ashamed of what his company has become. I've heard the stories about "we have to cut cost to compete, etc...) that's all bull****. Just like every corporation, Dell is an unchecked machine only intended on making as much money possible for their shareholders. While some CEOs manage to sell their board of directors on maintaining a high level of quality, I believe somewhere along the way Dell has sold out their customers altogether. They seem to be a B-List computer manufacture still posing as a A-list vendor. Maybe in that regard what Dell has become is a metaphor for many American companies. Regardless of the how & why- I am sad to see that Dell has chosen this path. It will take a long time (and a lot of convincing) before I ever purchase or recommend a Dell product again. In the past there have been companies that burn their customers and I have passionately rallied against them. With Dell there's isn't a lot of energy in me to do so, I feel like a family member has stabbed me in the back. If you choose to buy a Dell, God help you if you need support with it or you need to exchange it. In Dells place there really isn't another computer maker. Apple is delivering the support and quality Dell once was known for, but at the cost of being a luxury priced product and dual operating system mandate for those of us wanting to stick with Windows. Of the PC makers: Lenovo and Sony seem to be the best choices, but neither really offer what Dell does for tailored solutions. Goodbye Dell, I'll miss you. Good luck with whatever brand of computer you buy. Today, I picked up a 6-month old HP laptop for service. Crapped out completely. No warranty either. And just try to get an HP repaired under warranty, unless you are a business account. What else have we got in name-brand desktops? Acer-eGateMachines. Sony. Not much else. More brands of laptops, though. Well, try to get spare parts for a Sony anything, a Toshiba laptop, a Fujitsu laptop. Check out the tech support available on the mfr's web site BEFORE you buy. I cannot defend the lower quality of the newer Dell boxes. It is an industry-wide trend. Build them cheap, and throw them away when they break. It's sort of an accelerated approach to what Detroit did with cars for many years. A GM, Ford, or Chrysler product would croak after 5 years, so you had to buy a new one and keep them in business. Computers seem to bite the dust ever more frequently. Finally, go build your own. Then you will have no one to blame for poor quality except yourself... Ben Myers Ben you're right and that's why I titled it "Where does a former Dell customer go..." There really isn't an answer. I know before they sold their PC division to Lenovo, IBM was excellent to dell with. Of course those were the days when Dell support was also quality. I have no idea how well Lenovo is doing. For those who don't care about they money (or having to switch between OS products0, Apple is producing exceptional quality product. I know two colleagues who are in the software engineering field who made the choice to go with Mac Books (even though they primary work on Windows). Using the latest Windows- on-Mac solutions they are able to do everything they want and seem very very happy with their choice (Apple support and product quality is consistently rated the highest by the likes of Consumer Reports, et al. for whatever that is worth). Regarding HP. No doubt their are customers out there who feel the same way I do about Dell towards HP. They seemed to have followed the same path (out of competition, neither will take the high road). The problem with Dell and HP going down this path is that once the word is out there that their quality is gone (and based on my experiences I believe it is) then their brand becomes greatly devalued. After that point, good luck to them trying to compete with the Asian manufactures who offer better prices and (probably) better support at this point. Perhaps Gateway (who I could write much negative about as well) is on the right path. They don't try to hide that they use Asian factories to build their retail products cheap, but if you call their support you're taken care of promptly and it's from someone who speaks English clearly and can relate to your from not only language stand point, but also culturally. The later is of course greatly overlooked, but very important to the human element of support. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++ A very astute observation. There have been a couple of attempts by tech support companie on the sub-continent to hire not only native English speakers, but cultural advisors to try and teach that to their support staff. So far all I've noted is that a number of the setch speak a more coloquial version of English and have assumed english surnames. Not a very convincing and some what insulting attempt to bridge the gap. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++ My new strategy is one forced upon me. Buy at retail and buy based on the best deal you can and budget in repairs and replacement within 2-3 years. If I needed to order a large batch of systems with a specific configuration then I would need to turn to on on-line direct vendor, but it would not be Dell. I would say the quality of their support was at least 50% of what made them stand out. With that completely negated now and I would even go so far as to say my time on the phone with them (which was consistent on three occasions) was the worst support experience I've had in recent memory. I'm typically on the phone with tech support from some company 3-4 times any given month so it's hard for me to grasp just how far Dell has fallen when several years ago I would have rated them one my best support experiences. |
#22
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Where does a former Dell customer go?
Hi!
(wow, what a lot of quoting I trimmed!) IBM's own desktop quality was excellent for its P3 systems. I just have to say it: Nothing tops the PS/2. You can sit on them, support desks and tables with them, and really hurt someone with most of the models if something possessed you to do so. :-) Of course, a lot of modern software is right out. Last of all... The "retail" computer systems sold in most of the mass market outlets are unimpressive piles of electronics, tin, plastic, and screws. If the computer is sold retail, it is really made cheaply I'm not as convinced of this. There certainly is some junk on the market, but a good system can be had if the buyer will do their homework. The real problem I see with a lot of the systems offered for sale at "big box" stores of any type is the crapware. There are some exceptions, but most of them have crapware aplenty and no good way to do a real clean operating system installation. (I don't care about uninstallers. I don't want the stuff there in the first place.) Something else that I've been doing lately (and doing a pretty good business of it at that) is refurbishing old computers by cleaning them up, testing them out and sending them out the door to customers. I have no problem moving the Compaq Deskpro EN and Evo systems, as well as some Dell hardware from the same or later timeframe. Most people's computing needs are handled perfectly well by an older system. If that won't do for whatever reason, I'm certainly getting back into the spirit of building a "white box" machine from the parts I want or recommend. William |
#23
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Where does a former Dell customer go?
William R. Walsh wrote:
Hi! (wow, what a lot of quoting I trimmed!) IBM's own desktop quality was excellent for its P3 systems. I just have to say it: Nothing tops the PS/2. You can sit on them, support desks and tables with them, and really hurt someone with most of the models if something possessed you to do so. :-) Of course, a lot of modern software is right out. Last of all... The "retail" computer systems sold in most of the mass market outlets are unimpressive piles of electronics, tin, plastic, and screws. If the computer is sold retail, it is really made cheaply I'm not as convinced of this. There certainly is some junk on the market, but a good system can be had if the buyer will do their homework. The real problem I see with a lot of the systems offered for sale at "big box" stores of any type is the crapware. There are some exceptions, but most of them have crapware aplenty and no good way to do a real clean operating system installation. (I don't care about uninstallers. I don't want the stuff there in the first place.) Something else that I've been doing lately (and doing a pretty good business of it at that) is refurbishing old computers by cleaning them up, testing them out and sending them out the door to customers. I have no problem moving the Compaq Deskpro EN and Evo systems, as well as some Dell hardware from the same or later timeframe. Most people's computing needs are handled perfectly well by an older system. If that won't do for whatever reason, I'm certainly getting back into the spirit of building a "white box" machine from the parts I want or recommend. William The more expensive systems sold at retail are often made well. But the bargain basement ones? Forget it... Ben Myers |
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Where does a former Dell customer go?
Kevin Childers wrote:
A BIG SNIP Ben, please shut up. I have of late been doing quite well in repairing just out of warrenty and "The hell with this, we need a new one any way.." systems. A friend even got a nice XPS, just out of warrenty off Craig's List. Some one quoted the owner a $200 pricing to replace a bad cooling fan. Complete system for $75.00. One way or the other, I get'em too. The people who want a quality system get one built for them. The people who shop on the cheap, or maybe even not so cheap, end up bringing their systems in for service, warranty AND non-warranty. Non-warranty because they do not want to deal directly with Apoo and his friends, so I run interference for a price. Or non-warranty, because the owner is rightfully paranoid about what will happen to the contents of the hard drive, never ever backed up. And the systems people want to dispose of are sources of income, either a fixed up system or parts sold on eBay. In the last few months I have gotten several Dell bottom-of-the-line laptops (one fully functional) for cheap, tested the parts and sold the parts to desperate owners needing spares. The Inspirion 1200, 1300, and B130 would have been called POS 1200, 1300 and B130 had there been some law about truthiness of product names... Ben Myers |
#25
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Where does a former Dell customer go?
In ,
Ben Myers typed on Thu, 25 Dec 2008 00:20:49 -0500: [...] Last of all... The "retail" computer systems sold in most of the mass market outlets are unimpressive piles of electronics, tin, plastic, and screws. I don't care what brand it is. If the computer is sold retail, it is really made cheaply because all the computer manufacturers can afford to deal with the customer on a one-off basis and tell the customer to go screw himself, or maybe screw him with very high repair costs and essentially useless warranties. In short, I am tarring and feathering ALL the stuff you see at Best Buy, Circuit City, Walmart, Staples, Office Max, Office Depot. I walked through each of their stores after the Black Friday rush had settled down around 6pm, and saw nothing very good except maybe for the most expensive desktops. I would not hit a dog in the ass with any of the laptops I saw. Moral? Buy a business-class computer, e.g. from Dell's small business sales or equivalent elsewhere... Ben Myers Oh I disagree there. As I bet you could strap an EeePC with a SSD on the Space Shuttle and it would keep working for the next 20 years going to and from space without any problems. I am sure there are other retail models out there that can take a licking and keep on going as well. Check out this vibration test! lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf_QS3mZsyU -- Bill 3 Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC 2 Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 1GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC Windows XP SP2 ~ Xandros Linux |
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Where does a former Dell customer go?
BillW50 wrote:
In , Ben Myers typed on Thu, 25 Dec 2008 00:20:49 -0500: [...] Last of all... The "retail" computer systems sold in most of the mass market outlets are unimpressive piles of electronics, tin, plastic, and screws. I don't care what brand it is. If the computer is sold retail, it is really made cheaply because all the computer manufacturers can afford to deal with the customer on a one-off basis and tell the customer to go screw himself, or maybe screw him with very high repair costs and essentially useless warranties. In short, I am tarring and feathering ALL the stuff you see at Best Buy, Circuit City, Walmart, Staples, Office Max, Office Depot. I walked through each of their stores after the Black Friday rush had settled down around 6pm, and saw nothing very good except maybe for the most expensive desktops. I would not hit a dog in the ass with any of the laptops I saw. Moral? Buy a business-class computer, e.g. from Dell's small business sales or equivalent elsewhere... Ben Myers Oh I disagree there. As I bet you could strap an EeePC with a SSD on the Space Shuttle and it would keep working for the next 20 years going to and from space without any problems. I am sure there are other retail models out there that can take a licking and keep on going as well. Check out this vibration test! lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf_QS3mZsyU For once, anyway, I understand why you disagree with my blanket assertion. There are some decent well-made consumer-oriented computers out there on store shelves. But, for the most part, buyers will pay a premium for a quality box, and, as ever with the retail hucksters, buyers need to shop very carefully and ask a lot of questions. Caveat emptor. But what I saw in the stores late Black Friday sure looked like a lot of cheap shiny plastic and sheet metal. I suppose you like your EeePC? Made to NASA quality standards, eh? .... Ben Myers |
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Where does a former Dell customer go?
In ,
Ben Myers typed on Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:21:14 -0500: BillW50 wrote: In , Ben Myers typed on Thu, 25 Dec 2008 00:20:49 -0500: [...] Last of all... The "retail" computer systems sold in most of the mass market outlets are unimpressive piles of electronics, tin, plastic, and screws. I don't care what brand it is. If the computer is sold retail, it is really made cheaply because all the computer manufacturers can afford to deal with the customer on a one-off basis and tell the customer to go screw himself, or maybe screw him with very high repair costs and essentially useless warranties. In short, I am tarring and feathering ALL the stuff you see at Best Buy, Circuit City, Walmart, Staples, Office Max, Office Depot. I walked through each of their stores after the Black Friday rush had settled down around 6pm, and saw nothing very good except maybe for the most expensive desktops. I would not hit a dog in the ass with any of the laptops I saw. Moral? Buy a business-class computer, e.g. from Dell's small business sales or equivalent elsewhere... Ben Myers Oh I disagree there. As I bet you could strap an EeePC with a SSD on the Space Shuttle and it would keep working for the next 20 years going to and from space without any problems. I am sure there are other retail models out there that can take a licking and keep on going as well. Check out this vibration test! lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf_QS3mZsyU For once, anyway, I understand why you disagree with my blanket assertion. There are some decent well-made consumer-oriented computers out there on store shelves. Well finally! But, for the most part, buyers will pay a premium for a quality box, and, as ever with the retail hucksters, buyers need to shop very carefully and ask a lot of questions. Caveat emptor. But what I saw in the stores late Black Friday sure looked like a lot of cheap shiny plastic and sheet metal. Well I wasn't there, so you might be right. I suppose you like your EeePC? Made to NASA quality standards, eh? Well I have taken them apart and I am impressed. Cheap yet very sturdy! I haven't seen the later versions, so maybe they are not so well built. -- Bill 3 Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC 2 Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 1GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC Windows XP SP2 ~ Xandros Linux |
#28
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Where does a former Dell customer go?
"BillW50" wrote in message ... In , Ben Myers typed on Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:21:14 -0500: BillW50 wrote: In , Ben Myers typed on Thu, 25 Dec 2008 00:20:49 -0500: [...] Last of all... The "retail" computer systems sold in most of the mass market outlets are unimpressive piles of electronics, tin, plastic, and screws. I don't care what brand it is. If the computer is sold retail, it is really made cheaply because all the computer manufacturers can afford to deal with the customer on a one-off basis and tell the customer to go screw himself, or maybe screw him with very high repair costs and essentially useless warranties. In short, I am tarring and feathering ALL the stuff you see at Best Buy, Circuit City, Walmart, Staples, Office Max, Office Depot. I walked through each of their stores after the Black Friday rush had settled down around 6pm, and saw nothing very good except maybe for the most expensive desktops. I would not hit a dog in the ass with any of the laptops I saw. Moral? Buy a business-class computer, e.g. from Dell's small business sales or equivalent elsewhere... Ben Myers Oh I disagree there. As I bet you could strap an EeePC with a SSD on the Space Shuttle and it would keep working for the next 20 years going to and from space without any problems. I am sure there are other retail models out there that can take a licking and keep on going as well. Check out this vibration test! lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf_QS3mZsyU For once, anyway, I understand why you disagree with my blanket assertion. There are some decent well-made consumer-oriented computers out there on store shelves. Well finally! But, for the most part, buyers will pay a premium for a quality box, and, as ever with the retail hucksters, buyers need to shop very carefully and ask a lot of questions. Caveat emptor. But what I saw in the stores late Black Friday sure looked like a lot of cheap shiny plastic and sheet metal. Well I wasn't there, so you might be right. I suppose you like your EeePC? Made to NASA quality standards, eh? Well I have taken them apart and I am impressed. Cheap yet very sturdy! I haven't seen the later versions, so maybe they are not so well built. -- Bill 3 Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC 2 Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 1GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC Windows XP SP2 ~ Xandros Linux Oh for S--t sake there are exceptions for every rule........ |
#29
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Where does a former Dell customer go?
In ,
Mike typed on Sun, 28 Dec 2008 19:18:16 -0500: "BillW50" wrote in message ... In , Ben Myers typed on Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:21:14 -0500: BillW50 wrote: In , Ben Myers typed on Thu, 25 Dec 2008 00:20:49 -0500: [...] Last of all... The "retail" computer systems sold in most of the mass market outlets are unimpressive piles of electronics, tin, plastic, and screws. I don't care what brand it is. If the computer is sold retail, it is really made cheaply because all the computer manufacturers can afford to deal with the customer on a one-off basis and tell the customer to go screw himself, or maybe screw him with very high repair costs and essentially useless warranties. In short, I am tarring and feathering ALL the stuff you see at Best Buy, Circuit City, Walmart, Staples, Office Max, Office Depot. I walked through each of their stores after the Black Friday rush had settled down around 6pm, and saw nothing very good except maybe for the most expensive desktops. I would not hit a dog in the ass with any of the laptops I saw. Moral? Buy a business-class computer, e.g. from Dell's small business sales or equivalent elsewhere... Ben Myers Oh I disagree there. As I bet you could strap an EeePC with a SSD on the Space Shuttle and it would keep working for the next 20 years going to and from space without any problems. I am sure there are other retail models out there that can take a licking and keep on going as well. Check out this vibration test! lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf_QS3mZsyU For once, anyway, I understand why you disagree with my blanket assertion. There are some decent well-made consumer-oriented computers out there on store shelves. Well finally! But, for the most part, buyers will pay a premium for a quality box, and, as ever with the retail hucksters, buyers need to shop very carefully and ask a lot of questions. Caveat emptor. But what I saw in the stores late Black Friday sure looked like a lot of cheap shiny plastic and sheet metal. Well I wasn't there, so you might be right. I suppose you like your EeePC? Made to NASA quality standards, eh? Well I have taken them apart and I am impressed. Cheap yet very sturdy! I haven't seen the later versions, so maybe they are not so well built. Oh for S--t sake there are exceptions for every rule........ Does that mean all rules without exceptions are invalid and not to be followed? -- Bill 3 Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC 2 Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 1GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC Windows XP SP2 ~ Xandros Linux |
#30
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Where does a former Dell customer go?
BillW50 wrote:
In , Mike typed on Sun, 28 Dec 2008 19:18:16 -0500: "BillW50" wrote in message ... In , Ben Myers typed on Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:21:14 -0500: BillW50 wrote: In , Ben Myers typed on Thu, 25 Dec 2008 00:20:49 -0500: [...] Last of all... The "retail" computer systems sold in most of the mass market outlets are unimpressive piles of electronics, tin, plastic, and screws. I don't care what brand it is. If the computer is sold retail, it is really made cheaply because all the computer manufacturers can afford to deal with the customer on a one-off basis and tell the customer to go screw himself, or maybe screw him with very high repair costs and essentially useless warranties. In short, I am tarring and feathering ALL the stuff you see at Best Buy, Circuit City, Walmart, Staples, Office Max, Office Depot. I walked through each of their stores after the Black Friday rush had settled down around 6pm, and saw nothing very good except maybe for the most expensive desktops. I would not hit a dog in the ass with any of the laptops I saw. Moral? Buy a business-class computer, e.g. from Dell's small business sales or equivalent elsewhere... Ben Myers Oh I disagree there. As I bet you could strap an EeePC with a SSD on the Space Shuttle and it would keep working for the next 20 years going to and from space without any problems. I am sure there are other retail models out there that can take a licking and keep on going as well. Check out this vibration test! lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf_QS3mZsyU For once, anyway, I understand why you disagree with my blanket assertion. There are some decent well-made consumer-oriented computers out there on store shelves. Well finally! But, for the most part, buyers will pay a premium for a quality box, and, as ever with the retail hucksters, buyers need to shop very carefully and ask a lot of questions. Caveat emptor. But what I saw in the stores late Black Friday sure looked like a lot of cheap shiny plastic and sheet metal. Well I wasn't there, so you might be right. I suppose you like your EeePC? Made to NASA quality standards, eh? Well I have taken them apart and I am impressed. Cheap yet very sturdy! I haven't seen the later versions, so maybe they are not so well built. Oh for S--t sake there are exceptions for every rule........ Does that mean all rules without exceptions are invalid and not to be followed? Please take this one to a newsgroup called alt.argument.clinic ? Or is it alt.master.debaters ??? ... Ben Myers |
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