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#1
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New build questions
I am looking to build (or buy) a new desktop. It will be a general
purpose machine. The most demanding tasks will be some games and a bit of video editing. I also need to run one or more VMs so will need plenty of memory. I don't need the fastest spec as I am quite happy to run games on medium settings. My current PC (C2D, P965) is almost adequate but the 32 bit OS means I can't use enough memory. Most important to me is good quality components which will be stable and last a long time. Also I want a very quiet PC. That doesn't mean no fans but all fans must be controllable. I was leaning towards an Intel i5 and I'm not sure about the motherboard chipset. The OS will be Linux or Win7/8, not yet decided on that. Useful advice welcome. It's a while since I built a PC. I am in the UK so please don't recommend components not available here. -- (\__/) M. (='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around (")_(") is he still wrong? |
#2
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New build questions
Mark wrote:
I am looking to build (or buy) a new desktop. It will be a general purpose machine. The most demanding tasks will be some games and a bit of video editing. I also need to run one or more VMs so will need plenty of memory. I don't need the fastest spec as I am quite happy to run games on medium settings. My current PC (C2D, P965) is almost adequate but the 32 bit OS means I can't use enough memory. Most important to me is good quality components which will be stable and last a long time. Also I want a very quiet PC. That doesn't mean no fans but all fans must be controllable. I was leaning towards an Intel i5 and I'm not sure about the motherboard chipset. The OS will be Linux or Win7/8, not yet decided on that. Useful advice welcome. It's a while since I built a PC. I am in the UK so please don't recommend components not available here. If you're going to run VMs, I would get a processor with VT-X (easy) and one with EPT (Extended Page Tables). That would then make the machine a candidate for the desktop version of Hyper-V, if the need ever arises. It's basically a matter of making your hardware as "VM friendly" as possible. Sure, you can dream up a single software solution, that doesn't need anything, but you could be restricted by your hardware choice later. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extende...ed_Page_Tables You can start shopping here. http://ark.intel.com/ OK, here is a 65W i5, four core, with EPT and VT-X. http://ark.intel.com/products/75037/...up-to-3_20-GHz The Passmark rating is 6004 at 2.7GHz, for 4430S. Compared to a little over 10000 for a 4770K. My E8400 dual core 3GHz, is 2100, so these processors are three to five times faster than mine. Passmark is a multithreaded benchmark (giving some idea how much faster video transcoding or rendering might be). http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php ******* You can do a "Search by CPU" here. To get some idea how many motherboards take a 4430S. The product names all seem to have Z87 in them. Like "Z87 Deluxe". http://support.asus.com/cpu.aspx?SLanguage=en And here's an example of a Z87 based board. There is also a version of this, that includes a Wifi adapter built-in. But costs you $25 more, so it's not exactly a bargain. This is the one without Wifi. http://www.etstore.co.uk/itemdesc.asp?ic=109039&eq=&Tp= And there is an example of a 4430S. It's a Haswell processor, which means one stage of voltage regulation is inside the processor. The portion on the motherboard, that looks like a VCore regulator, really isn't a VCore regulator, and is all for show. The regulator around the CPU socket, converts +12V from the power supply, into +2.4V. That enters the CPU, where a switching converter (thin film type technology), makes the 1.0V or lower for the core. I'm not really sure what all the flap-doodle around the socket is for any more. It doesn't need to be quite as fancy (like, the VCore circuit no longer needs to support multiple voltages, and can just output a steady 2.4V - and since the CPU regulator takes care of things, there is not even a need for tight regulation). http://www.netstoredirect.com/intel-...901217804.html Now, when I look up CM8064601465803 on ark.intel.com, it says "Tray", so that particular store won't be providing a heatsink/fan with the CPU purchase. It won't be coming in a big blue box. There is no boxed part number for the processor, implying it was intended for OEM computer builds. Not home builders. It turns out, finding a decent cooler could be the hard part. This one is cheap, but doesn't have good hold-downs. There is one for three times the price, that has better mechanical design. But then you're paying roughly half the price of the motherboard, for a cooler. RR-VTPS-28PK-R1 Cooler Master Vortex Plus http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cooler-Maste.../dp/B003OEMMBO Cooler Master used to have a couple nice properties. Mine has a backing plate and screw based installation. That one doesn't. Mine also had a "standard" cooling fan, so when the fan broke while I was cleaning it, an ordinary case fan could be substituted. That one also appears to use a standard fan. If you were to buy the 4430 CPU, instead of the 4430S, the 4430 comes in a boxed configuration, and includes the Intel push-pin style cooler. But the 4430 is rated 84W TDP, versus the 65W TDP of the 4430S. I picked the 65W one, to save power and require less fan to cool it. You might also be able to get an Intel cooler off Ebay. But for the push-pin ones, if the previous owner abused them, one of the pins could be bent and relatively hard to use. The plastic pins aren't really meant for a lot of mount and unmount cycles. This is an example of an Intel push pin cooler, the kind that would be in a 4430 84W boxed processor. Anyone using a third-party cooler, might have one of these to sell. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Heatsi...77#ht_18wt_884 Have fun, Paul |
#3
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New build questions
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 09:13:04 -0500, Paul wrote:
Mark wrote: I am looking to build (or buy) a new desktop. It will be a general purpose machine. The most demanding tasks will be some games and a bit of video editing. I also need to run one or more VMs so will need plenty of memory. I don't need the fastest spec as I am quite happy to run games on medium settings. My current PC (C2D, P965) is almost adequate but the 32 bit OS means I can't use enough memory. Most important to me is good quality components which will be stable and last a long time. Also I want a very quiet PC. That doesn't mean no fans but all fans must be controllable. I was leaning towards an Intel i5 and I'm not sure about the motherboard chipset. The OS will be Linux or Win7/8, not yet decided on that. Useful advice welcome. It's a while since I built a PC. I am in the UK so please don't recommend components not available here. -- snip long and useful post :-) -- Thanks for the info. I was still thinking of Ivy Bridge as, last time I checked, Haswell kit was much more expensive. Now it's about the same or cheaper so it looks good. If anyone has suggestions for cases and PSUs I would be interested too. I usually go for midi tower (cos I like the room) and full size ATX mobos. -- (\__/) M. (='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around (")_(") is he still wrong? |
#4
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New build questions
Mark wrote:
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 09:13:04 -0500, Paul wrote: Mark wrote: I am looking to build (or buy) a new desktop. It will be a general purpose machine. The most demanding tasks will be some games and a bit of video editing. I also need to run one or more VMs so will need plenty of memory. I don't need the fastest spec as I am quite happy to run games on medium settings. My current PC (C2D, P965) is almost adequate but the 32 bit OS means I can't use enough memory. Most important to me is good quality components which will be stable and last a long time. Also I want a very quiet PC. That doesn't mean no fans but all fans must be controllable. I was leaning towards an Intel i5 and I'm not sure about the motherboard chipset. The OS will be Linux or Win7/8, not yet decided on that. Useful advice welcome. It's a while since I built a PC. I am in the UK so please don't recommend components not available here. -- snip long and useful post :-) -- Thanks for the info. I was still thinking of Ivy Bridge as, last time I checked, Haswell kit was much more expensive. Now it's about the same or cheaper so it looks good. If anyone has suggestions for cases and PSUs I would be interested too. I usually go for midi tower (cos I like the room) and full size ATX mobos. I haven't bought a case in a while. To keep me from building more computers, I force myself to recycle the cases. So I have to throw away a motherboard, before I can install a new one :-) My last case was an Antec, a case that looks like the successor to the Sonata. It was OK, but the metal wasn't as heavy as the older ones I've got. For power supplies, I just sort them by reputation on Newegg, to get some idea. (I.e. Use the customer reviews, to spot the lemons.) Once you see a model you like, you can buy it somewhere else. I always buy "case without supply" and buy a supply separately. That allows shopping for something half decent. Paul |
#5
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New build questions
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 11:25:04 +0000, Mark
wrote: I am looking to build (or buy) a new desktop. It will be a general purpose machine. The most demanding tasks will be some games and a bit of video editing. I also need to run one or more VMs so will need plenty of memory. I don't need the fastest spec as I am quite happy to run games on medium settings. My current PC (C2D, P965) is almost adequate but the 32 bit OS means I can't use enough memory. Most important to me is good quality components which will be stable and last a long time. Also I want a very quiet PC. That doesn't mean no fans but all fans must be controllable. I was leaning towards an Intel i5 and I'm not sure about the motherboard chipset. The OS will be Linux or Win7/8, not yet decided on that. Useful advice welcome. It's a while since I built a PC. I am in the UK so please don't recommend components not available here. For components including cases and power supplies, I usually look at Maximum PC for up to date info............... |
#6
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New build questions
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#7
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New build questions
On 10/02/2014 11:14 AM, Mark wrote:
Thanks for the info. I was still thinking of Ivy Bridge as, last time I checked, Haswell kit was much more expensive. Now it's about the same or cheaper so it looks good. If anyone has suggestions for cases and PSUs I would be interested too. I usually go for midi tower (cos I like the room) and full size ATX mobos. You should set a budget for yourself and build the system around the component or components that you absolutely need, and save money on the parts that you don't. This site below helps to buy components: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/ Also don't reject AMD processors, they're more than powerful enough, and you really need more memory than processor power to run virtual machines properly. Yousuf Khan |
#8
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New build questions
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 00:10:07 -0500, Yousuf Khan
wrote: On 10/02/2014 11:14 AM, Mark wrote: Thanks for the info. I was still thinking of Ivy Bridge as, last time I checked, Haswell kit was much more expensive. Now it's about the same or cheaper so it looks good. If anyone has suggestions for cases and PSUs I would be interested too. I usually go for midi tower (cos I like the room) and full size ATX mobos. You should set a budget for yourself and build the system around the component or components that you absolutely need, and save money on the parts that you don't. This site below helps to buy components: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/ Thanks. I'll check this out. BTW: I don't usually set myself a budget until later. I generally decide what I want and then see how much it would cost. If it's too much I either compromise or wait until prices drop. Also don't reject AMD processors, they're more than powerful enough, and you really need more memory than processor power to run virtual machines properly. I am not rejecting AMD processors. I just know less about them. How are they on power consumption vs performance, for example? -- (\__/) M. (='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around (")_(") is he still wrong? |
#9
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New build questions
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 09:38:00 +0000, Mark
wrote: You should set a budget for yourself and build the system around the component or components that you absolutely need, and save money on the parts that you don't. This site below helps to buy components: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/ Thanks. I'll check this out. BTW: I don't usually set myself a budget until later. I generally decide what I want and then see how much it would cost. If it's too much I either compromise or wait until prices drop. Also don't reject AMD processors, they're more than powerful enough, and you really need more memory than processor power to run virtual machines properly. I am not rejecting AMD processors. I just know less about them. How are they on power consumption vs performance, for example? Start by looking over the options within a budget. They're very obvious on Newegg, a starter, to cross check on Amazon, if you want, even though the hardware site are more comprehensive for somewhat an impartial skew if not commercial endorsement accorded all. There's, besides, really so many personal user-reviews available to cursorily skim among popular choices for a valid impression if not clearer pertinence. Start then building up your parts list in columnar format, perhaps with options such as a few processors to narrow into;- however, at that point, also do a quick cross-reference to MBs for a ballpark idea of costs and widest reflected availability on a consumer consumption bases. Better to work with what's there, in point of fact, than to project costs that may not be a realistic expectation. Aim for quality of construct, the more telling for potential among select components as they tend to fade out of production and into obsolescence. MB and CPU. The rest are from the perspective of computing, ancillary. A first focus, although don't nonetheless skimp on an ancillary aspect of quality;- less in-depth and easier assessed, over the hill, once the MB/CPU are established. Think of it as dollar-cost-averaging across and into an integral of reputability/quality, factoring out, objectively, any current production processor from an expository assessment from specialised instances, off from a skew as most generally applicable. |
#10
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New build questions
On 13/02/2014 4:38 AM, Mark wrote:
Thanks. I'll check this out. BTW: I don't usually set myself a budget until later. I generally decide what I want and then see how much it would cost. If it's too much I either compromise or wait until prices drop. Yeah, that's how I normally used to do it too, but this is a much better way of doing it. With the Pcpartpicker site, you can choose a particular processor, and this site will present you with only a list of motherboards that are compatible with this chip. For example if you choose a Core i7 that operates on the Socket 1156 interface, it won't present any motherboards for Socket 2011 for example. Similarly if you choose an AMD processor for Socket AM3+ interface, it won't present any FM3+ sockets to you. You can build your system around any components you feel that you must have, and then just choose from a list of supporting components. If you choose a specific case for example, you can build all of the rest around stuff that's compatible with that case. For example, you choose an ITX case, then it'll only present you with ITX mobos, and their compatible CPUs. Also don't reject AMD processors, they're more than powerful enough, and you really need more memory than processor power to run virtual machines properly. I am not rejecting AMD processors. I just know less about them. How are they on power consumption vs performance, for example? Well there are two major lines of AMD processors, their traditional CPU's, which are represented by their FX-line of processors, which don't have built-in GPU's, and their A-series APU's which do have GPU's built-in. The FX-line will go from 4 to 8 cores. The A-series will go from 2 to 4 cores, but have the advantage of not needing any sort of separate video card to be installed. The A-series have GPU's that are mid- to upper-level gaming quality, especially the A8 and A10 series. If you go with an A-series you will save on the cost and power consumption of an entire video card. With Intel processors, even though they may have GPU's built-in, few of them are gaming-quality, so you're going to have to buy separate video cards for them anyways. Yousuf Khan |
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