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Does more memory require a more powerful fan?



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 25th 17, 03:22 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
micky
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Posts: 439
Default Does more memory require a more powerful fan?

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 23 Jan 2017 09:53:12 -0500,
"Mayayana" wrote:

"micky" wrote

| It's already running borderline hot, according to Speccy, but when I put


I should have said that I was referring to CPU here. (Although Speccy
does also give a temp for the Seagate hardddrive, and even one for the
WD external harddrive!! (though not the Seagate external HDD. They are
both in the same USB dock.)

More below

| in the new RAM I was going to clean out the dust, which I can see
| through the plastic grill on the front of the box.

Definitely vacuum out the dust. Carefully.
I wonder what you mean by borderline hot.
Different CPUs have different ratings. I've
never heard of RAM being especially sensitive.

In general, why have a small case with tight
quarters and limited expandabilitiy if you don't
have to? It makes sense for portability. If your
computer stays put then small makes little sense.
And it usually costs more.

I just use a typical fan in a mid-tower, but the AMD
CPUs I use have had built-in temp control for years
now, and I use a water-cooled heat sink. HWMonitor
tells me I'm currently running at 87F and 76F. I assume
that's CPU and board, respectively. Temp flow around
the two hard disks is in the 60s. (We keep the thermostat
in the low 60s in the Winter.)

One thing I do with all computers I build: Most
cases these days have holes everywhere. I don't
know why. It seems to be an idea that hotshots
will want about 8 large fans. But that means
arbitrary air flow. I use a single rear fan
and add filters to holes I want to use. Mostly I like
to use the front holes, so that air is drawn across
the board and drives. I also use the side hole across
from the board. The other holes I cover. For filter
material I buy a green pad that's sold as furnace
filter at Home Depot. It comes with plastic grid.
Using plastic ties it's easy to cut any size filter and
grid, then attach it using the ties through case holes.
I then occasionaly vacuum the filter by just running
the vacuum nozzle along the outside
of the case, over the vent holes. That keeps the
inside pretty much dust-free. If you don't use filters
you get a blanket of dust and may also get greasy
residue if smoking or cooking fumes are nearby.


I havent' done much work yet but these programs disagree about the
temperatu

Core Temp 1.5 says my cores are each from 35 to 37C.
Anvir says my CPU is 40C, though that's the same temp it says my C:
drive is. And
Speccy says each of my cores is varying from 40 to 48C. Just getting
mail for a few seconds will raise the temp, it seems.

Quite a discrepancy, if you ask me. I looked other times too and
Core-temp is always 5^C (9^F!) lower than Speccy. Don't they use the
same sensor?
  #12  
Old January 25th 17, 04:13 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
Mayayana
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Posts: 32
Default Does more memory require a more powerful fan?

"micky" wrote

| Speccy says each of my cores is varying from 40 to 48C. Just getting
| mail for a few seconds will raise the temp, it seems.
|
I don't know either of those programs, so I don't
know what to think. I just tried Core Temp and I
get a temp of 63F, while HWMonitor is telling me
91F. I'm guessing HWMonitor is more accurate.

The top temp you're getting is only 118F. The top
sustained allowable is apparently somewhere around
60C or 140F for AMD. So it doesn't sound like your
CPU is running excessively hot. On the other hand,
that doesn't tell you how it's running when it's at
full tilt.

Then again, you didn't say anything about the CPU.
I haven't used Intel since the 90s, so I'm not sure
what's normal there. You might want to check what's
normal for your CPU.

If you have AMD make sure you've enabled Cool 'n
Quiet in the BIOS. The name is silly, but it's a clever
technology that keeps the heat down by shutting
off the CPU for microseconds when it's not needed.



  #13  
Old January 25th 17, 06:10 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
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Posts: 1,467
Default Does more memory require a more powerful fan?

micky wrote:


I havent' done much work yet but these programs disagree about the
temperatu

Core Temp 1.5 says my cores are each from 35 to 37C.
Anvir says my CPU is 40C, though that's the same temp it says my C:
drive is. And
Speccy says each of my cores is varying from 40 to 48C. Just getting
mail for a few seconds will raise the temp, it seems.

Quite a discrepancy, if you ask me. I looked other times too and
Core-temp is always 5^C (9^F!) lower than Speccy. Don't they use the
same sensor?


The digital temperature sensors produce a raw number which
is relative. You must know the Tmax, to convert the raw
measurement to a value humans can use. Let's say Tmax is 100C
for my CPU, and the measured digital value is "70".

100 - Trel_measured = 100 - 70 = 30C.

When two programs carry out the same math, they must use
the same value of Tmax. Nobody tells them what to use.
It doesn't appear there is a special function register
with the manifest value of 100 stored in it. Different
processor families have a different value of Tmax.
And then, CoreTemp and Anvir can arrive at a different
"number for humans", because of the way Intel makes it work.

The CoreTemp measurement, has a sensor-per-core. But you
will notice that the offset/gain errors on the channels
are not the same. The error is worst at low temps (the
readouts from two cores could differ by 7C). When the
chip is blazing hot, all the channels should read
very close to one another. The chip in this example,
isn't even remotely close to blazing hot - the heatsink
is too big for that (overkill).

https://s30.postimg.org/x3sxf96n5/prime95_jump.gif

If you scroll down this page, you can see the size
of the cooler I use. I only run it with the
center fan in place.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages...-review,1.html

Paul
  #14  
Old January 26th 17, 04:39 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
micky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 439
Default Does more memory require a more powerful fan?

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Tue, 24 Jan 2017 22:13:35 -0500,
"Mayayana" wrote:

"micky" wrote

| Speccy says each of my cores is varying from 40 to 48C. Just getting
| mail for a few seconds will raise the temp, it seems.
|
I don't know either of those programs, so I don't
know what to think. I just tried Core Temp and I
get a temp of 63F, while HWMonitor is telling me
91F.


Wow! I forgot that I have Hardware Monitor too. It pretty much agrees
with Speccy, though nowhere near exactly, and sometimes one is several
degrees higher than the other, and Core Temp still shows several
degrees lower than either.

I see that Core Temp has a screen called Adjust Offsets, where you can
choose a number to corrrect the temperature! I would do that if I were
sure what correct is. I guess they know they are wrong.

Core Temp also offers to do a variety of things if it gets too hot, and
it would be my favorite program of the 3, but it keeps closing on its
own, I think. Five times so far. I don't know if that's because I
haven't contributed any money, but otoh, I'm not going to contrtibute if
that won't fix it. I read the help screen and it doesn't say anything
about timing out.


I made the mistake of closing Hardware Monitor, I can't find an icon for
it, and when I search for it in the windows key, search field, I don't
find it. I think it starts on startup but the icon in the systray is
gone for now.

I'm guessing HWMonitor is more accurate.

The top temp you're getting is only 118F. The top
sustained allowable is apparently somewhere around
60C or 140F for AMD. So it doesn't sound like your
CPU is running excessively hot. On the other hand,
that doesn't tell you how it's running when it's at
full tilt.


Well what got me alarmed in the first place is that Speccy has 2 or 3
colors for the temperature number, and it was going for yellow to red
fairly often, but its number never actually got that high, and the other
two programs are not upset. (Speccy shows oodles of other things too.)
Core-Temp seems to actually look in a table that has my cpu processor
listed -- for example it lists the TJmax** -- so like I say, if it
will only stop stopping, I'll contribute.

Isn't TJmax a clothing store? Maybe they make processors too.

So I think I panicked for nothing, but when the memory comes, some time
between tomorrow and 2 weeks from now, I'll clean the insides. IIUC
there is no CPU fan and they call the case fan, just behind the grill, a
CPU fan. I think they had a shroud over everything, to route the
breeze past the CPU, so I can't tell how dirty it is until I take that
off.

I also bought a replacemnt fan, used, for $7. I bought it at 4 in the
morning on Monday and it arrived at noon on Tuesday, USPS first class
postage. But it came about 100 miles from Salisbury MD to Baltimore, in
one day. That's pretty good.

As to the grill dust, I got rid of that by putting my mouth up to it and
blowing . It took about 5 times to get each section. Since I can't
use a vacuum cleaner, I may use either the solder sucker bulb or my
mouth to blow the stuff away. Sure a little will resettle in the
computer but only 2 or 3 percent.


Then again, you didn't say anything about the CPU.
I haven't used Intel since the 90s, so I'm not sure
what's normal there. You might want to check what's
normal for your CPU.

If you have AMD make sure you've enabled Cool 'n
Quiet in the BIOS. The name is silly, but it's a clever
technology that keeps the heat down by shutting
off the CPU for microseconds when it's not needed.


Ha! But I've got Intel.


  #15  
Old January 26th 17, 09:25 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
micky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 439
Default Does more memory require a more powerful fan?

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 25 Jan 2017 00:10:57 -0500, Paul
wrote:

micky wrote:


I havent' done much work yet but these programs disagree about the
temperatu

Core Temp 1.5 says my cores are each from 35 to 37C.
Anvir says my CPU is 40C, though that's the same temp it says my C:
drive is. And
Speccy says each of my cores is varying from 40 to 48C. Just getting
mail for a few seconds will raise the temp, it seems.

Quite a discrepancy, if you ask me. I looked other times too and
Core-temp is always 5^C (9^F!) lower than Speccy. Don't they use the
same sensor?


The digital temperature sensors produce a raw number which
is relative. You must know the Tmax, to convert the raw
measurement to a value humans can use. Let's say Tmax is 100C
for my CPU, and the measured digital value is "70".

100 - Trel_measured = 100 - 70 = 30C.

When two programs carry out the same math, they must use
the same value of Tmax. Nobody tells them what to use.
It doesn't appear there is a special function register
with the manifest value of 100 stored in it. Different
processor families have a different value of Tmax.


This, from the Core Temp FAQ might be related to this:

"Why is the temperature of my FX, Phenom, Athlon based processor lower
than the ambient temperature?
Starting with the Phenoms, AMD's digital sensor no longer reports an
absolute temperature value anymore, but a reading with a certain offset,
which is unknown. It is estimated that this offset is between 10 - 20c."


And then, CoreTemp and Anvir can arrive at a different
"number for humans", because of the way Intel makes it work.

The CoreTemp measurement, has a sensor-per-core. But you
will notice that the offset/gain errors on the channels
are not the same. The error is worst at low temps (the
readouts from two cores could differ by 7C). When the
chip is blazing hot, all the channels should read
very close to one another. The chip in this example,
isn't even remotely close to blazing hot - the heatsink
is too big for that (overkill).

https://s30.postimg.org/x3sxf96n5/prime95_jump.gif


I tried clicking on another tab, but it doesn't work.

If you scroll down this page, you can see the size
of the cooler I use. I only run it with the
center fan in place.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages...-review,1.html


Big enough! I never heard of Noctua before two nights ago, when I saw
their 3" fans for $16, but then I read that Dell fans were different and
decided to get a fan originally made for a computer like mine. I bought
it on ebay at 4AM monday, it wasnt' at the post office until 3PM, and it
was delivered at 11:30 AM Tuesday, from 120 miles away. "Fast and
free" shipping, USPS first class mail. Certainly was fast. The
post office must use computers to get it to make connections this fast.

Paul


  #16  
Old January 26th 17, 09:27 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
micky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 439
Default Does more memory require a more powerful fan?

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 25 Jan 2017 00:10:57 -0500, Paul
wrote:


If you scroll down this page, you can see the size
of the cooler I use. I only run it with the
center fan in place.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages...-review,1.html

Paul


I hadn't scrolled down. That looks like a cooling system for a nuclear
power plant.

Or a CPU that can carry passengers.
  #17  
Old January 26th 17, 11:11 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Does more memory require a more powerful fan?

micky wrote:


Ha! But I've got Intel.


AMD = Cool N' Quiet
Intel = Enhanced Intel SpeedStep (EIST)

These show in many retail motherboards.

Paul
  #18  
Old January 26th 17, 06:11 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
Ken Blake[_3_]
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Posts: 27
Default Does more memory require a more powerful fan?

On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 22:39:06 -0500, micky
wrote:


As to the grill dust, I got rid of that by putting my mouth up to it and
blowing . It took about 5 times to get each section. Since I can't
use a vacuum cleaner, I may use either the solder sucker bulb or my
mouth to blow the stuff away. Sure a little will resettle in the
computer but only 2 or 3 percent.




You might want to buy and use a can of compressed air. They are
inexpensive.
  #19  
Old January 26th 17, 07:58 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,467
Default Does more memory require a more powerful fan?

Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 22:39:06 -0500, micky
wrote:


As to the grill dust, I got rid of that by putting my mouth up to it and
blowing . It took about 5 times to get each section. Since I can't
use a vacuum cleaner, I may use either the solder sucker bulb or my
mouth to blow the stuff away. Sure a little will resettle in the
computer but only 2 or 3 percent.




You might want to buy and use a can of compressed air. They are
inexpensive.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_duster

"Air on the contrary, cannot be compressed into liquid at any
pressure since the critical temperatures of air components
(-146.9 C for nitrogen; -118.6 C for oxygen) are much beyond
normal handling temperatures.

Duster gases are such as 1,1-difluoroethane, 1,1,1-trifluoroethane,
or 1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane. Hydrocarbons, like butane, were
often used in the past, but their flammable nature forced
manufacturers to use fluorocarbons.

When inhaled, gas duster fumes may produce psychoactive effects
and may be harmful to health."

If you invert the can, liquid can come out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane

"Recently, 1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane has been subject
to use restrictions due to its contribution to climate
change. It has a global warming potential of 1300." --- not good

"It has insignificant ozone depletion potential (ozone layer),
significant global warming potential (100-yr GWP = 1430)
and negligible acidification potential (acid rain). Because
of its high GWP, 1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane has been banned
from use in the European Union, starting with cars in 2011
and phasing out completely by 2017." [To be replaced by... what?]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,1-Difluoroethane

"it has an ozone depletion potential of zero,
a lower global warming potential (120) and --- better
a shorter atmospheric lifetime (1.4 years)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,1,1-Trifluoroethane

"therefore not an ozone-depleting chemical
global warming potential of 4300 --- bad (relative to CO2)

So while some of these don't have quite the effect on the ozone
layer, they're still not heroic compounds.

Paul
  #20  
Old January 26th 17, 08:58 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.hardware
Gene Wirchenko[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default Does more memory require a more powerful fan?

On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 13:58:16 -0500, Paul
wrote:

Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 22:39:06 -0500, micky
wrote:


As to the grill dust, I got rid of that by putting my mouth up to it and
blowing . It took about 5 times to get each section. Since I can't
use a vacuum cleaner, I may use either the solder sucker bulb or my
mouth to blow the stuff away. Sure a little will resettle in the
computer but only 2 or 3 percent.


You might want to buy and use a can of compressed air. They are
inexpensive.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_duster

"Air on the contrary, cannot be compressed into liquid at any
pressure since the critical temperatures of air components
(-146.9 C for nitrogen; -118.6 C for oxygen) are much beyond
normal handling temperatures.


What do divers breathe then?

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
 




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