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#1
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"CS" or "Master and Slave"?
My eMachine 1860, running WXP, has been flakey on boot for a year now; once
it is on it is fine, but it hands on boot about 20% of the time. Monday it simply wouldn't come up, hanging on "IOM.SYS" everytime. I took it in to the shop. They found a cable was nicked and the jumpers were wrong. They set them to Master and Slave. Now all is well. However, I checked the manual and it says to set the jumpers to "CS". The shop says the manual is wrong. Does it matter as long as the machine is working? Presumably the nicked cable was the problem the whole time. Thanks. |
#2
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If it's working leave it alone and be happy. Manufacturers of hdds allow
various configurations to allow the hdd to work by what other hardware one already has hooked up on the system. Actually you could hook the hdd as a slave, as long as it's jumpered properly, and make a CD-ROM a master. To expand, many times I've added a CD-ROM writer to a system that insists it must be a master. Sometimes it would not be seen on the OS unless I tied it in as a slave. The drive would work fine when done that way. And sometimes getting a system to run is akin to Han Solo pounding his fist against the side of the consol of the Milenium Falcon to go to Hyperdrive. -- Jan Alter or "John" wrote in message ... My eMachine 1860, running WXP, has been flakey on boot for a year now; once it is on it is fine, but it hands on boot about 20% of the time. Monday it simply wouldn't come up, hanging on "IOM.SYS" everytime. I took it in to the shop. They found a cable was nicked and the jumpers were wrong. They set them to Master and Slave. Now all is well. However, I checked the manual and it says to set the jumpers to "CS". The shop says the manual is wrong. Does it matter as long as the machine is working? Presumably the nicked cable was the problem the whole time. Thanks. |
#3
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On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:44:13 GMT, "John" wrote:
My eMachine 1860, running WXP, has been flakey on boot for a year now; once it is on it is fine, but it hands on boot about 20% of the time. Monday it simply wouldn't come up, hanging on "IOM.SYS" everytime. I took it in to the shop. They found a cable was nicked and the jumpers were wrong. They set them to Master and Slave. Now all is well. However, I checked the manual and it says to set the jumpers to "CS". The shop says the manual is wrong. Does it matter as long as the machine is working? Presumably the nicked cable was the problem the whole time. Thanks. You've basically got two choices with IDE drives on a given channel: 1. One drive as master, and the other as slave. As a matter of convention, the master is placed at the end of the cable and the slave in the middle, but this really doesn't matter. 2. Cable Select (CS). You're still using the master/slave system, but it's determined by the position on the cable. Both drives have to be set to CS. The master is whatever drive is at the end of the cable, the slave is whatever drive is in the middle. If you've got one drive as CS and the other set to either master or slave, it *might* work if the jumpers are correctly set for the position -- but it sometimes won't. The CS system is often employed by big OEMs because they can just have the jumpers on all of their drives to CS. That way, they don't have to worry about the jumper settings on the drives, they just grab a drive off the stack, plug it into the current machine, and move onto the next one. It's faster for assembly line building. Smaller OEMs and hobbyists prefer to use the Master/Slave settings because drives usually ship as being set to Master, and this way there's no ambiguity when you need to trouble shoot the system. You know exactly which drive has taken what position. Either way works, so long as you remember not to mix and match the settings, eg. CS on one and Master or slave on the other. It might work, assuming it's on the right position, and the controller hardware lets you get away with this, but it's not guaranteed that this will work. --------------------------------------------- MCheu |
#4
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MCheu wrote:
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:44:13 GMT, "John" wrote: My eMachine 1860, running WXP, has been flakey on boot for a year now; once it is on it is fine, but it hands on boot about 20% of the time. Monday it simply wouldn't come up, hanging on "IOM.SYS" everytime. I took it in to the shop. They found a cable was nicked and the jumpers were wrong. They set them to Master and Slave. Now all is well. However, I checked the manual and it says to set the jumpers to "CS". The shop says the manual is wrong. Does it matter as long as the machine is working? Presumably the nicked cable was the problem the whole time. Thanks. You've basically got two choices with IDE drives on a given channel: 1. One drive as master, and the other as slave. As a matter of convention, the master is placed at the end of the cable and the slave in the middle, but this really doesn't matter. 2. Cable Select (CS). You're still using the master/slave system, but it's determined by the position on the cable. Both drives have to be set to CS. The master is whatever drive is at the end of the cable, the slave is whatever drive is in the middle. If you've got one drive as CS and the other set to either master or slave, it *might* work if the jumpers are correctly set for the position -- but it sometimes won't. The CS system is often employed by big OEMs because they can just have the jumpers on all of their drives to CS. That way, they don't have to worry about the jumper settings on the drives, they just grab a drive off the stack, plug it into the current machine, and move onto the next one. It's faster for assembly line building. Smaller OEMs and hobbyists prefer to use the Master/Slave settings because drives usually ship as being set to Master, and this way there's no ambiguity when you need to trouble shoot the system. You know exactly which drive has taken what position. Either way works, so long as you remember not to mix and match the settings, eg. CS on one and Master or slave on the other. It might work, assuming it's on the right position, and the controller hardware lets you get away with this, but it's not guaranteed that this will work. I just wanted to add a bit to this excellent description: A "selecting cable" is typically stamped with "Master" (and possibly "Slave") next to the corresponding plug. |
#5
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In message MCheu
wrote: Smaller OEMs and hobbyists prefer to use the Master/Slave settings because drives usually ship as being set to Master, and this way there's no ambiguity when you need to trouble shoot the system. You know exactly which drive has taken what position. Almost all of the drives I've bought recently have defaulted to CS instead of master, especially drives that require 80wire cables. -- No user-serviceable parts |
#6
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"Grinder" wrote in message news:%Uqpd.85080$V41.10633@attbi_s52... MCheu wrote: On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:44:13 GMT, "John" wrote: My eMachine 1860, running WXP, has been flakey on boot for a year now; once it is on it is fine, but it hands on boot about 20% of the time. Monday it simply wouldn't come up, hanging on "IOM.SYS" everytime. I took it in to the shop. They found a cable was nicked and the jumpers were wrong. They set them to Master and Slave. Now all is well. However, I checked the manual and it says to set the jumpers to "CS". The shop says the manual is wrong. Does it matter as long as the machine is working? Presumably the nicked cable was the problem the whole time. Thanks. You've basically got two choices with IDE drives on a given channel: 1. One drive as master, and the other as slave. As a matter of convention, the master is placed at the end of the cable and the slave in the middle, but this really doesn't matter. 2. Cable Select (CS). You're still using the master/slave system, but it's determined by the position on the cable. Both drives have to be set to CS. The master is whatever drive is at the end of the cable, the slave is whatever drive is in the middle. If you've got one drive as CS and the other set to either master or slave, it *might* work if the jumpers are correctly set for the position -- but it sometimes won't. The CS system is often employed by big OEMs because they can just have the jumpers on all of their drives to CS. That way, they don't have to worry about the jumper settings on the drives, they just grab a drive off the stack, plug it into the current machine, and move onto the next one. It's faster for assembly line building. Smaller OEMs and hobbyists prefer to use the Master/Slave settings because drives usually ship as being set to Master, and this way there's no ambiguity when you need to trouble shoot the system. You know exactly which drive has taken what position. Either way works, so long as you remember not to mix and match the settings, eg. CS on one and Master or slave on the other. It might work, assuming it's on the right position, and the controller hardware lets you get away with this, but it's not guaranteed that this will work. I just wanted to add a bit to this excellent description: A "selecting cable" is typically stamped with "Master" (and possibly "Slave") next to the corresponding plug. I seem to remember that CS (Cable Select) was introduced in the days of the original IBM PC by IBM and was originally for floppy drives.. It had a twist of a number of strands in the cable between the two drive connectors. This meant that when assembling PCs with more than one drive they did not have to fiddle around setting jumpers for Master and Slave, the cable did it for them. |
#7
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Buccaneer wrote:
"Grinder" wrote in message news:%Uqpd.85080$V41.10633@attbi_s52... MCheu wrote: On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 14:44:13 GMT, "John" wrote: My eMachine 1860, running WXP, has been flakey on boot for a year now; once it is on it is fine, but it hands on boot about 20% of the time. Monday it simply wouldn't come up, hanging on "IOM.SYS" everytime. I took it in to the shop. They found a cable was nicked and the jumpers were wrong. They set them to Master and Slave. Now all is well. However, I checked the manual and it says to set the jumpers to "CS". The shop says the manual is wrong. Does it matter as long as the machine is working? Presumably the nicked cable was the problem the whole time. Thanks. You've basically got two choices with IDE drives on a given channel: 1. One drive as master, and the other as slave. As a matter of convention, the master is placed at the end of the cable and the slave in the middle, but this really doesn't matter. 2. Cable Select (CS). You're still using the master/slave system, but it's determined by the position on the cable. Both drives have to be set to CS. The master is whatever drive is at the end of the cable, the slave is whatever drive is in the middle. If you've got one drive as CS and the other set to either master or slave, it *might* work if the jumpers are correctly set for the position -- but it sometimes won't. The CS system is often employed by big OEMs because they can just have the jumpers on all of their drives to CS. That way, they don't have to worry about the jumper settings on the drives, they just grab a drive off the stack, plug it into the current machine, and move onto the next one. It's faster for assembly line building. Smaller OEMs and hobbyists prefer to use the Master/Slave settings because drives usually ship as being set to Master, and this way there's no ambiguity when you need to trouble shoot the system. You know exactly which drive has taken what position. Either way works, so long as you remember not to mix and match the settings, eg. CS on one and Master or slave on the other. It might work, assuming it's on the right position, and the controller hardware lets you get away with this, but it's not guaranteed that this will work. I just wanted to add a bit to this excellent description: A "selecting cable" is typically stamped with "Master" (and possibly "Slave") next to the corresponding plug. The middle plug is slave and is usually grey, with the end plug master and black. The motherboad connector is blue. Some early cables did not follow the ATA specs. This probably tainted the use of cable select. I seem to remember that CS (Cable Select) was introduced in the days of the original IBM PC by IBM and was originally for floppy drives.. It had a twist of a number of strands in the cable between the two drive connectors. This meant that when assembling PCs with more than one drive they did not have to fiddle around setting jumpers for Master and Slave, the cable did it for them. The early hard drives used FM or MFM data, and were driven from track to track by a stepper motor. The cable twist still survives in floppy cables, although few computers now have more than one floppy drive. Cable select on modern ATA drives is done by a ground on pin 34, which tells the controller which is the master. Pin 34 on the slave, (middle, gray), is not grounded as it is on the end, (black) connector. The cable supplies the ground at the MB, (blue) connector, and the system will complain if a 40 wire cable is used for a drive that needs an 80 wire cable, since no ground will be seen by the MB controller. Virg Wall |
#8
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VWWall wrote:
The early hard drives used FM or MFM data, and were driven from track to track by a stepper motor. The cable twist still survives in floppy cables, although few computers now have more than one floppy drive. Cable select on modern ATA drives is done by a ground on pin 34, which tells the controller which is the master. Pin 34 on the slave, (middle, gray), is not grounded as it is on the end, (black) connector. The cable supplies the ground at the MB, (blue) connector, and the system will complain if a 40 wire cable is used for a drive that needs an 80 wire cable, since no ground will be seen by the MB controller. Oops! Change: pin34 to pin 28, (CSEL). Pin 34, (CBLID), *is* used to determine if an 80 wire cable is needed by grounding pin 34 at the MB. Virg Wall, in a hurry to get to the turkey! |
#9
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Using cable select will require a cable that supports the 'cable select'
function. As mentioned previously a 'cable select' cable will be labled master at the end and possibly slave in the middle. |
#10
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John Smithe wrote in
. 1: Using cable select will require a cable that supports the 'cable select' function. As mentioned previously a 'cable select' cable will be labled master at the end and possibly slave in the middle. 'Cable select' cables also frequently have a hole in them. I believe that the hole will be between the master connector and the slave connector. This is how the 'open circuit' ,mentioned previsouly, is achieved. |
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