Old XP pc died?

My old XP pc stopped workin, the cpu fan
worked and the power on light was on. I
opened the case and saw there was a
heatsink after the CPU blok, loose. It is
an alu heatsink with a small contact who
pressed on a chip on the board, with 2
metal suspensed fasting, and one was loose.
I'm affraid the chip is burnt, should it?
I wil try make it fixed and look he will be
good.

--
____________________________________________
Bye, BugHunter.

BugHunter wrote:

My old XP pc stopped workin, the cpu fan worked and the power on light
was on. I opened the case and saw there was a heatsink after the CPU
blok, loose. It is an alu heatsink with a small contact who pressed
on a chip on the board, with 2 metal suspensed fasting, and one was
loose. I'm affraid the chip is burnt, should it? I wil try make it
fixed and look he will be good.

Does "after the CPU blo[c]k" mean the chipset heatsink was the one that
was loose? Does ALU (Arithmetic Logic Unit) mean you have a coprocessor
on the mobo? That would be a very old computer.

Clean off the old thermal paste (use isopropyl alcohol), *sparingly* put
on new paste (should be translucent), refasten the heatsink, and see if
the thing boots. Thermal paste will run you about $5. Pretty cheap as
a simple fix to see if the computer got healed.

VanguardLH schreef op Za 19 Sep 2015 om 16:00:
BugHunter wrote:

My old XP pc stopped workin, the cpu fan worked and the power on light
was on. I opened the case and saw there was a heatsink after the CPU
blok, loose. It is an alu heatsink with a small contact who pressed
on a chip on the board, with 2 metal suspensed fasting, and one was
loose. I'm affraid the chip is burnt, should it? I wil try make it
fixed and look he will be good.

Does "after the CPU blo[c]k" mean the chipset heatsink was the one that
was loose? Does ALU (Arithmetic Logic Unit) mean you have a coprocessor
on the mobo? That would be a very old computer.

Clean off the old thermal paste (use isopropyl alcohol), *sparingly* put
on new paste (should be translucent), refasten the heatsink, and see if
the thing boots. Thermal paste will run you about $5. Pretty cheap as
a simple fix to see if the computer got healed.


Sorry, I mean aluminium. The contactpoint is
only about 10 x 10 mm. There is thermal paste
used. Of corse, I can repair the fastening
eye and put new paste on it, but shoult he
be repaird? Such a small contactpoint points
at a big warmth. Also I want to know what is
the chip for? AOpen, between CPU and memory
banks. A silvercolored heatsink. With at the
top the mark AOpen.

Sorry for my bad English, I was mostable
playing during then English lesson. :-)

--
____________________________________________
Bye, BugHunter.

BugHunter schreef op Za 19 Sep 2015 om 23:08:
VanguardLH schreef op Za 19 Sep 2015 om 16:00:
BugHunter wrote:

My old XP pc stopped workin, the cpu fan worked and the power on light
was on. I opened the case and saw there was a heatsink after the CPU
blok, loose. It is an alu heatsink with a small contact who pressed
on a chip on the board, with 2 metal suspensed fasting, and one was
loose. I'm affraid the chip is burnt, should it? I wil try make it
fixed and look he will be good.

Does "after the CPU blo[c]k" mean the chipset heatsink was the one that
was loose? Does ALU (Arithmetic Logic Unit) mean you have a coprocessor
on the mobo? That would be a very old computer.

Clean off the old thermal paste (use isopropyl alcohol), *sparingly* put
on new paste (should be translucent), refasten the heatsink, and see if
the thing boots. Thermal paste will run you about $5. Pretty cheap as
a simple fix to see if the computer got healed.


Sorry, I mean aluminium. The contactpoint is
only about 10 x 10 mm. There is thermal paste
used. Of corse, I can repair the fastening
eye and put new paste on it, but shoult he
be repaird? Such a small contactpoint points
at a big warmth. Also I want to know what is
the chip for? AOpen, between CPU and memory
banks. A silvercolored heatsink. With at the
top the mark AOpen.

Sorry for my bad English, I was mostable
playing during then English lesson. :-)


I believe it is onboard video.

--
____________________________________________
Bye, BugHunter.

BugHunter wrote:
VanguardLH schreef op Za 19 Sep 2015 om 16:00:
BugHunter wrote:

My old XP pc stopped workin, the cpu fan worked and the power on light
was on. I opened the case and saw there was a heatsink after the CPU
blok, loose. It is an alu heatsink with a small contact who pressed
on a chip on the board, with 2 metal suspensed fasting, and one was
loose. I'm affraid the chip is burnt, should it? I wil try make it
fixed and look he will be good.
Does "after the CPU blo[c]k" mean the chipset heatsink was the one that
was loose? Does ALU (Arithmetic Logic Unit) mean you have a coprocessor
on the mobo? That would be a very old computer.

Clean off the old thermal paste (use isopropyl alcohol), *sparingly* put
on new paste (should be translucent), refasten the heatsink, and see if
the thing boots. Thermal paste will run you about $5. Pretty cheap as
a simple fix to see if the computer got healed.


Sorry, I mean aluminium. The contactpoint is
only about 10 x 10 mm. There is thermal paste
used. Of corse, I can repair the fastening
eye and put new paste on it, but shoult he
be repaird? Such a small contactpoint points
at a big warmth. Also I want to know what is
the chip for? AOpen, between CPU and memory
banks. A silvercolored heatsink. With at the
top the mark AOpen.

Sorry for my bad English, I was mostable
playing during then English lesson. :-)


The heatsink fell off your Northbridge.
Yes, it could burn, as some of them dissipate
15 watts. If it was a VIA chipset, it might even
survive, as some of those were relatively low
power (2W to 5W).

You can use thermal paste to put the
heatsink back on. If the Northbridge has
exposed components on top of it (small capacitors),
then try not to get thermal paste on them, only
on the silicon die. The Northbridge chips with
a proper lid on top, you don't have to be as
careful when applying thermal paste.

Some Dell computers, use an electrical "continuity check".
The strap that holds the Northbridge heatsink in place,
also is connected to an electrical circuit. If the
strap falls off, the circuit is broken, and the
computer will not start. That's how Dell protects
a few of their computers, from the Northbridge
burning because the heatsink fell off. Retail
motherboards (AOpen) don't have that protection
circuit.

*******

In this picture, you can see the metal "torsion bar"
with hook fastener on either end. What happens is,
the thing that solders into the motherboard, that the
bar hooks to, they used the wrong metal for it. The
fastener on the end, should have been tin/lead
compatible. Instead, the solder does not "stick"
to the metal properly. The thing in the motherboard,
eventually pulls out. The torsion bar cannot hold
down the heatsink (as the motherboard is vertically
oriented) and the heatsink falls off.

http://www.dansdata.com/images/i845s/bw7sink440.jpg

Commercial coolers like this one, cannot be used as
a replacement, because the retention here is via
push pins. And requires a good-sized hole in the
motherboard for the pin. (No! Do *not* drill holes
in the motherboard - there are copper tracks inside...)
The torsion bar, the holes where the solder thing fits,
are no good for this kind of heatsink.

http://img-europe.electrocomponents....0467523-01.jpg

You could fashion a hook out of the leg of an electronics
resistor. A 1/2 watt or 1 watt resistor, you snip the
leg off it, twist into a U-shape. Insert that into
the motherboard in place of the poorly chosen fastener,
and solder that in place. And that can hold the torsion
bar in place for another few years. The leg of a power
resistor, has excellent soldering properties, and
the solder will make a bright shiny solder joint.

Note that, solder is *not* intended for structural loading.
You'd not supposed to subject solder to constant tension,
because the solder joint will eventually fail. So when you
insert your copper U-shape as a replacement for the fastener
that fell out, you "swage" the ends of the U-shape loop,
so it cannot fall out of the motherboard.
_
/ \
| |
--+ +-- --- bend legs at 90 degrees for retention

If you examine the history of computers, this poorly
thought out torsion bar scheme only lasted for one
generation of computers, and the push pin scheme seems
to be a better, more long lasting, solution. A metal screw
with lock washer would likely be better, but these companies
do not like to use screws, no matter what. They insist
on doing "stupid stuff".

*******

There is also "thermal epoxy". It consists of a two-component
epoxy mixture, charged with finely ground boron nitride for
thermal conduction. This is a *permanent* adhesive - it
cannot be removed if you make a mistake. I do not recommend
the usage of this sort of product, because it cannot
be removed. But, if you're desperate, and cannot solder
the retainer of the heatsink in place, this could be
used to hold the heatsink to the Northbridge chip. The
thermal properties (heat conduction) of this stuff,
might not be quite as good as regular thermal paste
used for this task.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA6UM37Z2597

I'm only mentioning the two-component epoxy, before
someone else mentions it. I don't really like the
stuff, as there is no room for error. One guy put
his heatsink on crooked, and it is stuck on crooked
*forever* . He was asking if I knew of a solvent to
remove the epoxy, and anything strong enough to
attack the epoxy, will eat the motherboard materials
too.

Paul

BugHunter wrote:

VanguardLH:

BugHunter wrote:

My old XP pc stopped workin, the cpu fan worked and the power on
light was on. I opened the case and saw there was a heatsink after
the CPU blok, loose. It is an alu heatsink with a small contact who
pressed on a chip on the board, with 2 metal suspensed fasting, and
one was loose. I'm affraid the chip is burnt, should it? I wil try
make it fixed and look he will be good.

Clean off the old thermal paste (use isopropyl alcohol), *sparingly*
put on new paste (should be translucent), refasten the heatsink, and
see if the thing boots. Thermal paste will run you about $5.
Pretty cheap as a simple fix to see if the computer got healed.

Sorry, I mean aluminium. The contactpoint is only about 10 x 10 mm.
There is thermal paste used. Of corse, I can repair the fastening eye
and put new paste on it, but shoult he be repaird? Such a small
contactpoint points at a big warmth. Also I want to know what is the
chip for?

Only you, so far, know what model of Aopen motherboard that you have. I
can guess it is the Northbridge chip of chipset pair but a model would
let others know what to look up. If you know the model of mobo, you can
go to the maker's web site and get the online copy of the manual which
should have pictures mentioning what are many of the components on that
mobo.

BugHunter wrote:

Also I want to know what is the chip for? AOpen, between CPU and
memory banks. A silvercolored heatsink. With at the top the mark
AOpen.

I believe it is onboard video.

Onboard video is integrated inside the Northbridge chip of the chipset.
Rather than guess what you have, find the model of the mobo. If you do
an online image search of the make and model of mobo, you might find a
picture of it that you can download. Then edit the photo (e.g., Paint)
to add a pointer at the component that had the heatsink fall off.
Upload the edited to online storage, like tinypic or imgur, and give the
link to the uploaded photo.

VanguardLH schreef op Za 19 Sep 2015 om 18:18:
BugHunter wrote:

Also I want to know what is the chip for? AOpen, between CPU and
memory banks. A silvercolored heatsink. With at the top the mark
AOpen.

I believe it is onboard video.

Onboard video is integrated inside the Northbridge chip of the chipset.
Rather than guess what you have, find the model of the mobo. If you do
an online image search of the make and model of mobo, you might find a
picture of it that you can download. Then edit the photo (e.g., Paint)
to add a pointer at the component that had the heatsink fall off.
Upload the edited to online storage, like tinypic or imgur, and give the
link to the uploaded photo.


http://global.aopen.com/products_detail.aspx?auno=58

In the middle you see the heatsink who I
talk about. If you zoom in, you see the
iron ropes rightunder and leftabove. They
are attached to the board with a kind of
tab, and one is come loose.

It is possible there is an safety system,
because the tabs are soldered, i think.

--
____________________________________________
Bye, BugHunter.

Paul schreef op Za 19 Sep 2015 om 18:51:
BugHunter wrote:
VanguardLH schreef op Za 19 Sep 2015 om 16:00:
BugHunter wrote:

My old XP pc stopped workin, the cpu fan worked and the power on light
was on. I opened the case and saw there was a heatsink after the CPU
blok, loose. It is an alu heatsink with a small contact who pressed
on a chip on the board, with 2 metal suspensed fasting, and one was
loose. I'm affraid the chip is burnt, should it? I wil try make it
fixed and look he will be good.
Does "after the CPU blo[c]k" mean the chipset heatsink was the one that
was loose? Does ALU (Arithmetic Logic Unit) mean you have a coprocessor
on the mobo? That would be a very old computer.

Clean off the old thermal paste (use isopropyl alcohol), *sparingly* put
on new paste (should be translucent), refasten the heatsink, and see if
the thing boots. Thermal paste will run you about $5. Pretty cheap as
a simple fix to see if the computer got healed.


Sorry, I mean aluminium. The contactpoint is
only about 10 x 10 mm. There is thermal paste
used. Of corse, I can repair the fastening
eye and put new paste on it, but shoult he
be repaird? Such a small contactpoint points
at a big warmth. Also I want to know what is
the chip for? AOpen, between CPU and memory
banks. A silvercolored heatsink. With at the
top the mark AOpen.

Sorry for my bad English, I was mostable
playing during then English lesson. :-)


The heatsink fell off your Northbridge.
Yes, it could burn, as some of them dissipate
15 watts. If it was a VIA chipset, it might even
survive, as some of those were relatively low
power (2W to 5W).

You can use thermal paste to put the
heatsink back on. If the Northbridge has
exposed components on top of it (small capacitors),
then try not to get thermal paste on them, only
on the silicon die. The Northbridge chips with
a proper lid on top, you don't have to be as
careful when applying thermal paste.

Some Dell computers, use an electrical "continuity check".
The strap that holds the Northbridge heatsink in place,
also is connected to an electrical circuit. If the
strap falls off, the circuit is broken, and the
computer will not start. That's how Dell protects
a few of their computers, from the Northbridge
burning because the heatsink fell off. Retail
motherboards (AOpen) don't have that protection
circuit.

*******

In this picture, you can see the metal "torsion bar"
with hook fastener on either end. What happens is,
the thing that solders into the motherboard, that the
bar hooks to, they used the wrong metal for it. The
fastener on the end, should have been tin/lead
compatible. Instead, the solder does not "stick"
to the metal properly. The thing in the motherboard,
eventually pulls out. The torsion bar cannot hold
down the heatsink (as the motherboard is vertically
oriented) and the heatsink falls off.

http://www.dansdata.com/images/i845s/bw7sink440.jpg

Commercial coolers like this one, cannot be used as
a replacement, because the retention here is via
push pins. And requires a good-sized hole in the
motherboard for the pin. (No! Do *not* drill holes
in the motherboard - there are copper tracks inside...)
The torsion bar, the holes where the solder thing fits,
are no good for this kind of heatsink.

http://img-europe.electrocomponents....0467523-01.jpg

You could fashion a hook out of the leg of an electronics
resistor. A 1/2 watt or 1 watt resistor, you snip the
leg off it, twist into a U-shape. Insert that into
the motherboard in place of the poorly chosen fastener,
and solder that in place. And that can hold the torsion
bar in place for another few years. The leg of a power
resistor, has excellent soldering properties, and
the solder will make a bright shiny solder joint.

Note that, solder is *not* intended for structural loading.
You'd not supposed to subject solder to constant tension,
because the solder joint will eventually fail. So when you
insert your copper U-shape as a replacement for the fastener
that fell out, you "swage" the ends of the U-shape loop,
so it cannot fall out of the motherboard.
_
/ \
| |
--+ +-- --- bend legs at 90 degrees for retention

If you examine the history of computers, this poorly
thought out torsion bar scheme only lasted for one
generation of computers, and the push pin scheme seems
to be a better, more long lasting, solution. A metal screw
with lock washer would likely be better, but these companies
do not like to use screws, no matter what. They insist
on doing "stupid stuff".

*******

There is also "thermal epoxy". It consists of a two-component
epoxy mixture, charged with finely ground boron nitride for
thermal conduction. This is a *permanent* adhesive - it
cannot be removed if you make a mistake. I do not recommend
the usage of this sort of product, because it cannot
be removed. But, if you're desperate, and cannot solder
the retainer of the heatsink in place, this could be
used to hold the heatsink to the Northbridge chip. The
thermal properties (heat conduction) of this stuff,
might not be quite as good as regular thermal paste
used for this task.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA6UM37Z2597

I'm only mentioning the two-component epoxy, before
someone else mentions it. I don't really like the
stuff, as there is no room for error. One guy put
his heatsink on crooked, and it is stuck on crooked
*forever* . He was asking if I knew of a solvent to
remove the epoxy, and anything strong enough to
attack the epoxy, will eat the motherboard materials
too.


Thanks for your comprehensive answer. See
mij reaction on Za 19 Sep 2015 om 18:18

--
____________________________________________
Bye, BugHunter.

BugHunter wrote:

http://global.aopen.com/products_detail.aspx?auno=58

You sure that you have the pictured mobo? I find some listed as "Aopen
AX4B-533" that have a vacuum tube on them. Yep, the ancient vacuum
tube. Tubes are still more linear of a larger voltage range than
semiconductors and you can put a ton of current through them. See the
one below with a tube for high-amperage audio output:

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/aopentube/

The one you pictured looks more like a bigger pic for the AX4B-*Pro* 533
(notice "Pro" and the space before "533") shown at:

http://www.svethardware.cz/sh/media.nsf/w/5F193D4B1151DBA9C1256C59004DC466/$file/01.jpg

From the specs there, I see nothing that indicates this mobo has onboard
video. It lists an AGP slot but you would need a video daughtercard in
that slot to have video. There is no video connector listed for its I/O
backpanel (where onboard video goes so you can connect a monitor there).
Its specs do not mention a mobo header to bring video to a case-mounted
connector. You don't have onboard video. You have a video card in the
AGP slot.

For there to be onboard video means there would need to be a "GV" after
the chip model number, like "845GV". The specs on the page you gave
says only "845E". See:

http://www.motherboards.org/mobot/ch..._d/Intel/845E/

Note IGP (Integrated Graphics Processor) is No. Since the 845E
northbridge does not have a graphics processor inside, it won't generate
as much heat hence the passive heatsink (no fan).

To what does your monitor connect on the computer?

In the middle you see the heatsink who I talk about. If you zoom in,
you see the iron ropes rightunder and leftabove. They are attached to
the board with a kind of tab, and one is come loose.

It is possible there is an safety system, because the tabs are
soldered, i think.

The spring metal wire is layed against the heatsink and the ends are
bent down to hook into the tangs on the mobo. This provides downward
pressure on the heatsink. Think of taking a spring metal wire and
pressing it down over a finger. You will feel the downward pressure of
the spring wire on your finger. They couldn't have the wire extending
sideways out from the heatsink because there are components on either
side, so they bent the wire and push those ends down.

The ends might be soldered but they could be desoldered (solder sucker
and/or solder wick) to remove the heatsink to apply new thermal paste.
It's possible that thermal tape was used instead of paste. Tape will
have a distinctly square shape rather than paste that squeezes around in
an irregular blob. Whether paste or tape, you cannot (should not) reuse
the old paste or tape.

For the heatsink to have popped off, is the spring wire broken? Or did
one end pop out of the mobo tang (which means it was not soldered)?

Was the computer dropped or was someone inside fiddling around with,
say, the CPU and its heatsink or monkeying around with the AGP video
card in the nearby slot? Other than the spring wire breaking (not
likely since it is not being stressed back and forth to induce metal
fatigue), something had to make the curled ends of the spring wire pop
out of the tangs on the mobo. If the ends are soldered as you claim,
the spring wire would have had to break off an end which also indicates
abuse. If the spring wire's ends are not soldered, it's possible one
end popped out but it's likely with such an old mobo that the end was
just outside the tang (not in the groove) and years later happened to
pop off, so abuse is still indicated.