Tualatin in a GA-6WMMC7

~misfit~ wrote:

~misfit~ wrote:

I think I may play with that FSB now, even though it's after
midnight. I realised last night that I might be able to get more than
1.80v vcore into it. There are jumpers on the slocket that go from
1.5v to 1.95v in 0.05v steps. Up until now I've just had them on
"Auto", I'm thinking if I put them at, say 1.75v, the BIOS may give
me options up to 2.1v or so. Running a Mendicino (2.0v standard) it
gives me options up to 2.4v. Hmmm.


:-(

I can't get it to run Prime95 at 105Mhz FSB, (The next step in BIOS) 944Mhz
CPU, even at 2.0v vcore. Changing the jumpers on the slocket to 1.75v gave
me settings in BIOS up to 2.1v. Good guess ay? At 1.95v Prime crashed on the
first test, at 2.0v it crashed on the second. I don't know if going higher
will help or just kill my CPU. I have a Tualatin Celeron 1.3Ghz HSF on it,
it seems cool enough to the touch but who can tell what the core temp might
be doing?

David, wasn't it you with the legendary cB0 566? What vcore did that require
to break the 1Ghz barrier and how did you cool it?

Yeah. It does 1020@120 MHz FSB, which was why I ran it in the Asus mATX
P2B-VM. That was the only motherboard I had that did 120MHz FSB.

I don't remember the Vcore though, although I'm pretty sure I'd never have
gone over 2 volts.

Heatsink was probably the SVC all copper 60mm square thin fin job (lot's of
different brand names do one similar) because, with that being a flip-chip,
I'd have wanted a copper bottom heat spreader.


I might have to change the default vcore jumpers on the cC0, give it some
more juice, and see if *it* will go higher. Actually, I think it's on a
different slocket, without the jumpers, might have to change it for the MSI
Master. The missus will kill me if I wreck that machine though, it's on 24/7
housing our modem, sharing the internet connection around the LAN and
playing mp3s all day hooked up to our stereo. It does have a better HSF
though, a copper-bottomed jobbie that came standard with a mates Barton
2500+. He gave it to me for fitting his Thermaltake.

Better go to bed I s'pose, things to do tomorrow.

After seeing your previous post I can't believe I didn't mention my problem
with the BH6 that needs the slotket slightly 'cocked' front to rear to run,
but maybe I missed yours being a slot-1.

Fortunately the slotket is one of those 'nothing but a board' kind and the
slot retainer clips have a 'groove' in the middle that slides over the
board edge to hold it center but you can slide it on 'wrong', with the
board slightly backwards at the top so that it slides into the 'space'
between the center grove and the backside of the clip (looks like there's
three groves: the center one and one before and after it). It takes that
extra strain to make proper contact.

Could also be because I'm using a pretty large heatsink on it, though, that
wants to pull it forward.

Anyway, it was one I had sold and after running perfectly fine for over a
year I got a call: "it died and won't boot." Reseating it that way fixed it
and it's been running another year now.

David Maynard wrote:
Yeah. It does 1020@120 MHz FSB, which was why I ran it in the Asus
mATX P2B-VM. That was the only motherboard I had that did 120MHz FSB.

I don't remember the Vcore though, although I'm pretty sure I'd never
have gone over 2 volts.

Yeah, I thought going up from 1.5 to 2.0 was about as far as I wanted to go.

Heatsink was probably the SVC all copper 60mm square thin fin job
(lot's of different brand names do one similar) because, with that
being a flip-chip, I'd have wanted a copper bottom heat spreader.

Ok, thanks.

After seeing your previous post I can't believe I didn't mention my
problem with the BH6 that needs the slotket slightly 'cocked' front
to rear to run, but maybe I missed yours being a slot-1.

Fortunately the slotket is one of those 'nothing but a board' kind
and the slot retainer clips have a 'groove' in the middle that slides
over the board edge to hold it center but you can slide it on
'wrong', with the board slightly backwards at the top so that it
slides into the 'space' between the center grove and the backside of
the clip (looks like there's three groves: the center one and one
before and after it). It takes that extra strain to make proper
contact.

Mine are similar. As this one is working properly now I'll bear it in mind
with the other that I'm gonna play with as soon as my back feels better.
(Hard day today).

Could also be because I'm using a pretty large heatsink on it,
though, that wants to pull it forward.

Anyway, it was one I had sold and after running perfectly fine for
over a year I got a call: "it died and won't boot." Reseating it that
way fixed it and it's been running another year now.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge David. Newsgroups are great huh?
--
~misfit~

~misfit~ wrote:

David Maynard wrote:

Yeah. It does 1020@120 MHz FSB, which was why I ran it in the Asus
mATX P2B-VM. That was the only motherboard I had that did 120MHz FSB.

I don't remember the Vcore though, although I'm pretty sure I'd never
have gone over 2 volts.


Yeah, I thought going up from 1.5 to 2.0 was about as far as I wanted to go.


Heatsink was probably the SVC all copper 60mm square thin fin job
(lot's of different brand names do one similar) because, with that
being a flip-chip, I'd have wanted a copper bottom heat spreader.


Ok, thanks.


After seeing your previous post I can't believe I didn't mention my
problem with the BH6 that needs the slotket slightly 'cocked' front
to rear to run, but maybe I missed yours being a slot-1.

Fortunately the slotket is one of those 'nothing but a board' kind
and the slot retainer clips have a 'groove' in the middle that slides
over the board edge to hold it center but you can slide it on
'wrong', with the board slightly backwards at the top so that it
slides into the 'space' between the center grove and the backside of
the clip (looks like there's three groves: the center one and one
before and after it). It takes that extra strain to make proper
contact.


Mine are similar. As this one is working properly now I'll bear it in mind
with the other that I'm gonna play with as soon as my back feels better.
(Hard day today).


Could also be because I'm using a pretty large heatsink on it,
though, that wants to pull it forward.

Anyway, it was one I had sold and after running perfectly fine for
over a year I got a call: "it died and won't boot." Reseating it that
way fixed it and it's been running another year now.


Thanks for sharing your knowledge David. Newsgroups are great huh?

Yeah, if I REMEMBER the knowledge. hehe

After doing all the normal reseat everything and 'break it down to bare
minimum' I was about ready to replace the motherboard when, bing, it
posted. HEY! It CAN boot. Started putting cards back in and, bong, it
wouldn't. Bad card, eh? Pulled them out again and it still wouldn't. Well,
hell, if it was a bad card then it should work with them OUT. Then it
posted again. Then it didn't again. A few curse words (understatement). Bad
PSU cable? Jiggle. Booted. Then it didn't. Ah HAH! Replace the PSU (note to
fix cable later). Booted. Then it didn't. Repeat of understated curse words.

That's the short version. I was wiggling and reseating everything trying to
find SOMEthing consistent because, dad burnit, it WAS able to boot under
SOME unknown condition.

I gave it the American Tourister gorilla baggage handler test before
sending it back, though. hehe

I had, of course, cleaned and reseated the slot-1 card I don't know how
many times but if I ever need to go work on it again I'll try your brush in
the connector idea.

~misfit~ wrote:
P2B wrote:
[snip]
One thing I've learned,
you gotta clean out the slots periodically on Slot 1 boards. Silly I didn't
think about it before really, I've had some fairly powerful fans on these
slockets at times and changed slockets often. When you think about it dust
is bound to get pushed down into the slot. I wonder if those two boards that
mysteriously both stopped running Coppermines (But would still run
Mendicinos) at the same time are/were both suffering from dusty slots?
Wouldn't that be a coincidence?

I think it's down to oxidation more than dust. I first encountered this
issue a few weeks ago - I was helping a guy who was trying to build a
dual P3-S 1.4Ghz on a P2B-DS (same as my systems). He was using
Powerleap adapters even though he didn't need them, and the system would
not run for more than an hour without freezing.

We tried everything, but the symptoms remained - and were very similar
to what I saw when I first modified my 300As for dual and made the bus
request wires too long. Noisy bus request signals will cause one
processor to drop out, which can produce some very wierd behavior
depending on which processes happen to be executing on the remaining
processor. I concluded that Powerleap's bus request traces must be on
the edge of too long for reliable operation at 133Mhz FSB, and agreed to
trade his Powerleaps for a pair of modded Slot-Ts. That solved his problem.

When I received the Powerleaps I installed them in one of my systems,
same problem! I wasn't able to measure the bus request trace lengths due
to the board layout, but it appeared they were likely to be around 1.5cm
longer than on the Slot-T - but I got the Powerleaps working reliably by
simply cleaning the edge connectors and slots with 100% isopropyl
alcohol. I used a piece of cardboard carefully chosen for it's thickness
and soaked in alcohol to clean the slots, so any dust in the slots is
still there. The cardboard came out with black lines from the contact
fingers, so I suspect it removed oxides, resulting in slightly reduced
contact resistance - which cleaned up the bus request signals just
enough to solve the freezing problem :-)

The more common Slot-1 mechanical problem IME is processors and adapters
that don't fit the slot properly! I've seen many that won't boot when
the CPU or adapter is fully seated in the slot and locked into the
retention mechanism, but work perfectly if you withdraw the CPU by 0.5
to 1mm. Often you can still lock the retention mechanism without forcing
the CPU down too far, but I never did find one that works with my 300As
- ended up using the original SECC1 mechanisms with little MDF blocks to
hold them vertical. I also have an Asus S370-133 adapter here that's a
PITA to use on any board - has to be pulled out almost 2mm or it won't
boot, and doesn't seem to fit any retention mechanism.

P2B

P2B wrote:
~misfit~ wrote:
P2B wrote:
[snip]
One thing I've learned,
you gotta clean out the slots periodically on Slot 1 boards. Silly I
didn't think about it before really, I've had some fairly powerful
fans on these slockets at times and changed slockets often. When you
think about it dust is bound to get pushed down into the slot. I
wonder if those two boards that mysteriously both stopped running
Coppermines (But would still run Mendicinos) at the same time
are/were both suffering from dusty slots? Wouldn't that be a
coincidence?

I think it's down to oxidation more than dust. I first encountered
this issue a few weeks ago - I was helping a guy who was trying to
build a
dual P3-S 1.4Ghz on a P2B-DS (same as my systems). He was using
Powerleap adapters even though he didn't need them, and the system
would not run for more than an hour without freezing.

We tried everything, but the symptoms remained - and were very similar
to what I saw when I first modified my 300As for dual and made the bus
request wires too long. Noisy bus request signals will cause one
processor to drop out, which can produce some very wierd behavior
depending on which processes happen to be executing on the remaining
processor. I concluded that Powerleap's bus request traces must be on
the edge of too long for reliable operation at 133Mhz FSB, and agreed
to trade his Powerleaps for a pair of modded Slot-Ts. That solved his
problem.

When I received the Powerleaps I installed them in one of my systems,
same problem! I wasn't able to measure the bus request trace lengths
due to the board layout, but it appeared they were likely to be
around 1.5cm longer than on the Slot-T - but I got the Powerleaps
working reliably by simply cleaning the edge connectors and slots
with 100% isopropyl
alcohol. I used a piece of cardboard carefully chosen for it's
thickness and soaked in alcohol to clean the slots, so any dust in
the slots is still there. The cardboard came out with black lines
from the contact fingers, so I suspect it removed oxides, resulting
in slightly reduced contact resistance - which cleaned up the bus
request signals just
enough to solve the freezing problem :-)

It could well have been oxidation. Next time I think I'll try both methods
of cleaning, get the dust out first and them (after I get some isopropyl
alcohol) the cardboard method (henceforth to be known as the P2B slot
cleaning method). g The P2B Method may even help me overclock my Celly
600s maybe. It's a thought. I was tempted at one stage to push a sheet of
600 grit wet'n'dry paper (cut for the notch, that's the finest I have at
hand) into the slot with a slocket to attempt to clean the contacts but
decided that could be a bit rough. Maybe not. shrug In the end the
paintbrush seems to have done it, maybe it could be better though.

The more common Slot-1 mechanical problem IME is processors and
adapters that don't fit the slot properly! I've seen many that won't
boot when
the CPU or adapter is fully seated in the slot and locked into the
retention mechanism, but work perfectly if you withdraw the CPU by 0.5
to 1mm. Often you can still lock the retention mechanism without
forcing the CPU down too far, but I never did find one that works
with my 300As - ended up using the original SECC1 mechanisms with
little MDF blocks to hold them vertical. I also have an Asus S370-133
adapter here that's a PITA to use on any board - has to be pulled out
almost 2mm or it won't boot, and doesn't seem to fit any retention
mechanism.

I wonder if that's the problem with a PII 450 I have here? I was setting up
a machine for my father-in-law (well, out-law but soon to be in-law) as a
second machine and I tried this 450 which I was told worked fine and it
wouldn't boot at all. I didn't think to try liftig it slightly in the slot
(or cleaning the slot for that matter). I put a PII 350 in and it booted up
so that's what he got. I've since seen the guy who I got the 450 off and he
swears it was working when he pulled it (from a Compaq server).

Cheers,
--
~misfit~

~misfit~ wrote:

P2B wrote:

~misfit~ wrote:

P2B wrote:

[snip]

One thing I've learned,
you gotta clean out the slots periodically on Slot 1 boards. Silly I
didn't think about it before really, I've had some fairly powerful
fans on these slockets at times and changed slockets often. When you
think about it dust is bound to get pushed down into the slot. I
wonder if those two boards that mysteriously both stopped running
Coppermines (But would still run Mendicinos) at the same time
are/were both suffering from dusty slots? Wouldn't that be a
coincidence?

I think it's down to oxidation more than dust. I first encountered
this issue a few weeks ago - I was helping a guy who was trying to
build a
dual P3-S 1.4Ghz on a P2B-DS (same as my systems). He was using
Powerleap adapters even though he didn't need them, and the system
would not run for more than an hour without freezing.

We tried everything, but the symptoms remained - and were very similar
to what I saw when I first modified my 300As for dual and made the bus
request wires too long. Noisy bus request signals will cause one
processor to drop out, which can produce some very wierd behavior
depending on which processes happen to be executing on the remaining
processor. I concluded that Powerleap's bus request traces must be on
the edge of too long for reliable operation at 133Mhz FSB, and agreed
to trade his Powerleaps for a pair of modded Slot-Ts. That solved his
problem.

When I received the Powerleaps I installed them in one of my systems,
same problem! I wasn't able to measure the bus request trace lengths
due to the board layout, but it appeared they were likely to be
around 1.5cm longer than on the Slot-T - but I got the Powerleaps
working reliably by simply cleaning the edge connectors and slots
with 100% isopropyl
alcohol. I used a piece of cardboard carefully chosen for it's
thickness and soaked in alcohol to clean the slots, so any dust in
the slots is still there. The cardboard came out with black lines
from the contact fingers, so I suspect it removed oxides, resulting
in slightly reduced contact resistance - which cleaned up the bus
request signals just
enough to solve the freezing problem :-)


It could well have been oxidation. Next time I think I'll try both methods
of cleaning, get the dust out first and them (after I get some isopropyl
alcohol) the cardboard method (henceforth to be known as the P2B slot
cleaning method). g The P2B Method may even help me overclock my Celly
600s maybe. It's a thought. I was tempted at one stage to push a sheet of
600 grit wet'n'dry paper (cut for the notch, that's the finest I have at
hand) into the slot with a slocket to attempt to clean the contacts but
decided that could be a bit rough. Maybe not. shrug In the end the
paintbrush seems to have done it, maybe it could be better though.


The more common Slot-1 mechanical problem IME is processors and
adapters that don't fit the slot properly! I've seen many that won't
boot when
the CPU or adapter is fully seated in the slot and locked into the
retention mechanism, but work perfectly if you withdraw the CPU by 0.5
to 1mm. Often you can still lock the retention mechanism without
forcing the CPU down too far, but I never did find one that works
with my 300As - ended up using the original SECC1 mechanisms with
little MDF blocks to hold them vertical. I also have an Asus S370-133
adapter here that's a PITA to use on any board - has to be pulled out
almost 2mm or it won't boot, and doesn't seem to fit any retention
mechanism.


I wonder if that's the problem with a PII 450 I have here? I was setting up
a machine for my father-in-law (well, out-law but soon to be in-law) as a
second machine and I tried this 450 which I was told worked fine and it
wouldn't boot at all. I didn't think to try liftig it slightly in the slot
(or cleaning the slot for that matter). I put a PII 350 in and it booted up
so that's what he got. I've since seen the guy who I got the 450 off and he
swears it was working when he pulled it (from a Compaq server).

Cheers,
--
~misfit~



Interesting. I figured my slot-1 problem was rather oddball but maybe
they're more problematic than I thought.

David Maynard wrote:
~misfit~ wrote:
I wonder if that's the problem with a PII 450 I have here? I was
setting up a machine for my father-in-law (well, out-law but soon to
be in-law) as a second machine and I tried this 450 which I was told
worked fine and it wouldn't boot at all. I didn't think to try
lifting it slightly in the slot (or cleaning the slot for that
matter). I put a PII 350 in and it booted up so that's what he got.
I've since seen the guy who I got the 450 off and he swears it was
working when he pulled it (from a Compaq server).

Interesting. I figured my slot-1 problem was rather oddball but maybe
they're more problematic than I thought.

Yeah. They are getting old now and when you think about it that slot is a
dust-trap and is very hard to check the contacts in, or keep them clean.
There could be a lot of written-off Slot 1 boards out there that just need
the contacts in the slot cleaned. I know that from now on if I have
trouble/flakey behaviour with a Slot 1 board the first thing I'm gonna do is
clean the slot out.
--
~misfit~

~misfit~ wrote:

David Maynard wrote:

~misfit~ wrote:

I wonder if that's the problem with a PII 450 I have here? I was
setting up a machine for my father-in-law (well, out-law but soon to
be in-law) as a second machine and I tried this 450 which I was told
worked fine and it wouldn't boot at all. I didn't think to try
lifting it slightly in the slot (or cleaning the slot for that
matter). I put a PII 350 in and it booted up so that's what he got.
I've since seen the guy who I got the 450 off and he swears it was
working when he pulled it (from a Compaq server).

Interesting. I figured my slot-1 problem was rather oddball but maybe
they're more problematic than I thought.


Yeah. They are getting old now and when you think about it that slot is a
dust-trap and is very hard to check the contacts in, or keep them clean.

I was thinking the same thing. That plus they probably didn't intend for
the processor to be ripped out and reinstalled as often as we tend to do.


There could be a lot of written-off Slot 1 boards out there that just need
the contacts in the slot cleaned. I know that from now on if I have
trouble/flakey behaviour with a Slot 1 board the first thing I'm gonna do is
clean the slot out.
--
~misfit~

David Maynard wrote:
~misfit~ wrote:
Yeah. They are getting old now and when you think about it that slot
is a dust-trap and is very hard to check the contacts in, or keep
them clean.

I was thinking the same thing. That plus they probably didn't intend
for the processor to be ripped out and reinstalled as often as we
tend to do.

Ain't that the truth! Some of my Slot 1 boards have had more slot-action in
a single weekend than a bride on her honeymoon. g
--
~misfit~

~misfit~ wrote:

David Maynard wrote:

~misfit~ wrote:

Yeah. They are getting old now and when you think about it that slot
is a dust-trap and is very hard to check the contacts in, or keep
them clean.

I was thinking the same thing. That plus they probably didn't intend
for the processor to be ripped out and reinstalled as often as we
tend to do.


Ain't that the truth! Some of my Slot 1 boards have had more slot-action in
a single weekend than a bride on her honeymoon. g

LOL

I'm not quite sure what to think about the bride, the husband, or your
weekend slot action for that matter. But I'm sure there's a lesson in there
somewhere =:O)