BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC - PC Shutting Off - Temperature Problem?

In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul
posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 13:31:53 -0500 the following:

Even if there was a problem with Safety Ground connection on the AC
side of your wiring, I don't think these symptoms would result. The
shell of the monitor cable has a ground connection, so the monitor and
computer will operate at a common ground potential.

Oh, I'm not sure if having a desktop background image up and running
stresses anything more than having no background at all, so set the
background to plain black, just to see. It probably won't make any
difference, but maybe it does.

Chkdsk found a couple of entries in a couple of files, so it deleted those
entries. Those were the only two errors it found after all these
power-offs.

Damaeus

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:32:09 -0500, Damaeus wrote:

I don't have enough money to have multiple computer parts lying around. I
do have OLD parts, like a couple of old motherboards. I only have one
power supply and I bought it new back in July 2012.

PSU: Thermaltake SP-850AH3CCB 850w

There should be a sticker on the side, that indicates the
maximum amperage on each rail. What does it show for the +12 V Rail?

I had a problem described in
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...re/X6IE-tJpqXc

Turned out, when the video card drew too much from the +12V rail, the
system would spontaneously shutdown.

Easiest way to test, is to remove everything you can, that draws from
the +12V rail. Dvd, extra hard drives, any usb devices, etc., and see
if the system is stable with less draw.

Another way to test would be to add more usb devices, and confirm that it
won't even boot with more usb devices connected.

If this is the problem, it doesn't mean any of the parts are bad, just that
they are not suitable for the current configuration. Either the power supply
would have to be replaced with one that has a high enough rating on the +12V
rail, or the video card replaced with one that draws less power, or just keep
unneeded usb devices, etc., disconnected.

In the case I ran into, replacing the ps with one rated for 52 amps on the
+12V rail fixed the problem.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
Change nomail.afraid.org to ody.ca to reply by email.
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use in usenet. Feel free to use it yourself.)

Damaeus wrote:
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, "Buffalo"
posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 15:22:03 -0700 the
following:

If you have another PSU, switch it out.

I don't have enough money to have multiple computer parts lying around. I
do have OLD parts, like a couple of old motherboards. I only have one
power supply and I bought it new back in July 2012.

PSU: Thermaltake SP-850AH3CCB 850w

I got a Thermaltake because I sort of thought it was a good brand.

Damaeus

Quite a few companies, use OEM supplies. For example, your Thermaltake
power supply was probably actually made by ChannelWell (CWT).
If someday you're inside the PSU, with the cover off,
you may see transformers with CWT printed on them.

Several retail companies, might be using the same core
design as your supply. But when ChannelWell assembles them,
they can use a different parts list, depending on the
retailer's preference. That would affect the contract
price, but also perhaps, the "tier" the product
is marketed into. There can even be performance
differences (ones people with oscilloscopes check for),
even though the basic PCB for the power supply design is
the same. Like two identical base designs, one having
more output ripple at high load, than the other.

The only thing you have to watch for on ChannelWell, is
leaking caps. The two dead Antec supplies I have here,
were made by ChannelWell, and that's what killed them.
Antec has some of their supplies, made by Delta now.

It's one reason to read reviews if you can find them,
find out who makes the supply, whether all caps
are good. There are a couple sites that consider
technical issues, while a lot of the smaller
sites just admire "the color of the paint used"
on the outside of the PSU. Web sites with a proper
Chroma tester, are less common.

http://www.pcpower.com/accessories/i...st-report.html

There are various ways to do that. Buy a Chroma is one.
Buy a cheaper brand, a more portable tester, made by
some other company. Or in some cases, web sites build their
own test equipment. At least one or two sites, they actually
do rather nice designs. Whereas in other cases, they do
designs like I might do them in my basement (like this) :-)
It all depends on what your budget is.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article269-page3.html

Paul

In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul
posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 13:31:53 -0500 the following:

If we were debugging in the lab, we'd start at PS_ON# and
work backwards. A schematic is generally recommended,
as the logic tree has more than a few terms in it (SB and
SuperI/O signals). I've debugged electronics without
a schematic, but it isn't that much fun.

I wonder if an old CMOS battery that won't hold a charge for more than
three minutes could cause it to shut down. I wouldn't think so. The
battery has been dead for a long time. I've had to reset the date and
time and other BIOS settings after a power failure for probably two years.
It's only been powering off for about a week and a half now.

Damaeus

In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul
posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 21:27:33 -0500 the following:

Damaeus wrote:

I got a Thermaltake because I sort of thought it was a good brand.

Quite a few companies, use OEM supplies. For example, your Thermaltake
power supply was probably actually made by ChannelWell (CWT). If
someday you're inside the PSU, with the cover off, you may see
transformers with CWT printed on them.

Several retail companies, might be using the same core design as your
supply. But when ChannelWell assembles them, they can use a different
parts list, depending on the retailer's preference. That would affect
the contract price, but also perhaps, the "tier" the product is marketed
into.

That, in my view, is an unacceptable business practice. If a company
designs a power supply to be build with specific parts for the reasons of
reliability, some company that builds it should not just change that parts
list just because some retailer has a preference. They probably just
prefer lower-cost parts so they can make more money. That just makes me
want to puke. I actually bought this one at BestBuy, and I have to admit,
because it was $20 cheaper there than it was at the local computer store.
I figured they were the same power supply inside and out.

If I was a millionaire, I don't suppose I would really care. I'd just
keep buying parts until the problem is fixed. I know nobody here can do
anything about my poverty, but I can't help expressing the frustration. I
simply can't afford to run around and buy a bunch of testing equipment,
new parts, etc... until I just happen to run across what finally fixes the
problem. And while I do have an old video card, it's an AGP card and this
motherboard does not have an AGP slot.

There can even be performance differences (ones people with
oscilloscopes check for), even though the basic PCB for the power supply
design is the same. Like two identical base designs, one having more
output ripple at high load, than the other.

The only thing you have to watch for on ChannelWell, is leaking caps.
The two dead Antec supplies I have here, were made by ChannelWell, and
that's what killed them. Antec has some of their supplies, made by
Delta now.

And I would have considered Antec a good power supply.

My last power supply actually had red and blue LEDs inside behind the fan
and it worked fine until July 2012 when I replaced it with what I thought
would be an even better brand. I don't even remember the brand of my old
power supply, but it was 500 or 550 watts and was red color with what
looked like one of those anodized finishes on it.

I don't like this feeling that I could just be sitting here typing a
message like this and suddenly it can all be lost when the power shuts
off.

It's one reason to read reviews if you can find them, find out who makes
the supply, whether all caps are good. There are a couple sites that
consider technical issues, while a lot of the smaller sites just admire
"the color of the paint used" on the outside of the PSU. Web sites with
a proper Chroma tester, are less common.

http://www.pcpower.com/accessories/i...st-report.html

There are various ways to do that. Buy a Chroma is one.

If I had $100,000 to spare, I'd buy a Chroma, even if I only got to use it
once every five years.

Buy a cheaper brand, a more portable tester, made by some other company.
Or in some cases, web sites build their own test equipment. At least
one or two sites, they actually do rather nice designs. Whereas in
other cases, they do designs like I might do them in my basement (like
this) :-) It all depends on what your budget is.

I have 11 cents. If anybody asks me what I want for Christmas this year
(and I hate Christmas since I can't afford to get anybody anything, but I
usually end up receiving a few things) I'll definitely be saying I need a
means to buy computer parts.

It may be impossible to help me since I don't have the most basic thing
needed to fix a computer: money.

But remember! Studies show that having more money won't make you any
happier. Such bull****.

Damaeus

Damaeus wrote:
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul
posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 21:27:33 -0500 the following:

Damaeus wrote:

I got a Thermaltake because I sort of thought it was a good brand.

Quite a few companies, use OEM supplies. For example, your
Thermaltake power supply was probably actually made by ChannelWell
(CWT). If someday you're inside the PSU, with the cover off, you
may see transformers with CWT printed on them.

Several retail companies, might be using the same core design as your
supply. But when ChannelWell assembles them, they can use a
different parts list, depending on the retailer's preference. That
would affect the contract price, but also perhaps, the "tier" the
product is marketed into.

That, in my view, is an unacceptable business practice. If a company
designs a power supply to be build with specific parts for the
reasons of reliability, some company that builds it should not just
change that parts list just because some retailer has a preference.
They probably just prefer lower-cost parts so they can make more
money. That just makes me want to puke. I actually bought this one
at BestBuy, and I have to admit, because it was $20 cheaper there
than it was at the local computer store. I figured they were the same
power supply inside and out.

If I was a millionaire, I don't suppose I would really care. I'd just
keep buying parts until the problem is fixed. I know nobody here can
do anything about my poverty, but I can't help expressing the
frustration. I simply can't afford to run around and buy a bunch of
testing equipment, new parts, etc... until I just happen to run
across what finally fixes the problem. And while I do have an old
video card, it's an AGP card and this motherboard does not have an
AGP slot.

There can even be performance differences (ones people with
oscilloscopes check for), even though the basic PCB for the power
supply design is the same. Like two identical base designs, one
having more output ripple at high load, than the other.

The only thing you have to watch for on ChannelWell, is leaking caps.
The two dead Antec supplies I have here, were made by ChannelWell,
and that's what killed them. Antec has some of their supplies, made
by Delta now.

And I would have considered Antec a good power supply.

My last power supply actually had red and blue LEDs inside behind the
fan and it worked fine until July 2012 when I replaced it with what I
thought would be an even better brand. I don't even remember the
brand of my old power supply, but it was 500 or 550 watts and was red
color with what looked like one of those anodized finishes on it.

I don't like this feeling that I could just be sitting here typing a
message like this and suddenly it can all be lost when the power shuts
off.

It's one reason to read reviews if you can find them, find out who
makes the supply, whether all caps are good. There are a couple
sites that consider technical issues, while a lot of the smaller
sites just admire "the color of the paint used" on the outside of
the PSU. Web sites with a proper Chroma tester, are less common.

http://www.pcpower.com/accessories/i...st-report.html

There are various ways to do that. Buy a Chroma is one.

If I had $100,000 to spare, I'd buy a Chroma, even if I only got to
use it once every five years.

Buy a cheaper brand, a more portable tester, made by some other
company. Or in some cases, web sites build their own test equipment.
At least one or two sites, they actually do rather nice designs.
Whereas in other cases, they do designs like I might do them in my
basement (like this) :-) It all depends on what your budget is.

I have 11 cents. If anybody asks me what I want for Christmas this
year (and I hate Christmas since I can't afford to get anybody
anything, but I usually end up receiving a few things) I'll
definitely be saying I need a means to buy computer parts.

It may be impossible to help me since I don't have the most basic
thing needed to fix a computer: money.

But remember! Studies show that having more money won't make you any
happier. Such bull****.

Damaeus

Go into your PC and disconnect and reconnect all your electrical connectors
and also remove and reinsert all your cards. It is possible that one of the
connectors is burnt, faulty or making a poor connection. Perhaps even one of
your add on cards (vid, sound, etc) is not making good contact. This doesn't
even cost 11c, unless you damage something.
In Device Manager, are there any apparent problems marded by a yellow
exclamation symbol? On the back of the power supply, check that the switch
is all the way over to the proper voltage spot , perhaps even move it back
an forth a couple of times (power off of course) to make sure it is in the
proper spot.
May be a total waste of time, but it doesn't take long.
Buffalo

In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, "Buffalo"
posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 23:11:32 -0700 the
following:

Go into your PC and disconnect and reconnect all your electrical connectors
and also remove and reinsert all your cards. It is possible that one of the
connectors is burnt, faulty or making a poor connection. Perhaps even one of
your add on cards (vid, sound, etc) is not making good contact. This doesn't
even cost 11c, unless you damage something.

I think I might have just found the problem. I didn't even notice these
fans before, but there are two fans there and one of them is out. If this
is overheating, perhaps that's what's shutting the computer down. Here's
an image of it. I'm not sure what the chip under that heatsink does, but
the size of it indicates that it's important to keep it cool.

http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/fan-out.jpg

I think in a little bit, until I can get a new fan, I'm going to see if I
can switch those fans around so the working one is on the bottom. Then
I'll take the bad one out and see if I can find a replacement. So far,
this is the least expensive move to make. And I don't even know when this
fan died. It might have died a long time ago. I'm going to get two fans
and just replace them both.

Damaeus

In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
posted on Thu, 15 Nov 2012 03:03:56
-0600 the following:

http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/fan-out.jpg

I think in a little bit, until I can get a new fan, I'm going to see if I
can switch those fans around so the working one is on the bottom. Then
I'll take the bad one out and see if I can find a replacement. So far,
this is the least expensive move to make. And I don't even know when this
fan died. It might have died a long time ago. I'm going to get two fans
and just replace them both.

Woops, I mean it might have just died recently. Even though I built this
thing, I don't remember seeing it there before, but maybe I'm kind of
absent-minded.

Damaeus

In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
posted on Thu, 15 Nov 2012 03:03:56
-0600 the following:

I think in a little bit, until I can get a new fan, I'm going to see if I
can switch those fans around so the working one is on the bottom. Then
I'll take the bad one out and see if I can find a replacement. So far,
this is the least expensive move to make. And I don't even know when this
fan died. It might have died a long time ago. I'm going to get two fans
and just replace them both.

I'm not fully sure I can even replace those. The fans are part of the
motherboard, mounted by Abit. I see a screw holding the fan on, but the
second screw would be impossible to get to without removing that heatsink,
and I'm not even sure it can be removed.

Here's another image from the web. The two fans are pictured on the
bottom left corner of the motherboard, and you can see the location of the
heatsink over the Fatal1ty chip:

http://www.theinquirer.net/img/8083/an9a.jpg?1241332110

The two fans are mounted on the motherboard from the factory and I see
what looks like a spring-loaded gizmo in each corner of the heatsink. I'd
have to remove that to get to the fans, and I'd probably have to take the
whole motherboard out of the computer to have enough room to get in
there...and I'd probably have to take the heatsink off the CPU, too.

Now I like building computers...when they work the first time I put them
together, and so far, all of them have. But I don't like poking around
inside unless absolutely necessary because I don't have the money to
replace anything if I mess it up.

But at least I'll get the chance to do a deep cleaning on the innards.

What do you think? Am I on the right track? lol

Damaeus

Damaeus wrote:


That, in my view, is an unacceptable business practice. If a company
designs a power supply to be build with specific parts for the reasons of
reliability, some company that builds it should not just change that parts
list just because some retailer has a preference. They probably just
prefer lower-cost parts so they can make more money. That just makes me
want to puke. I actually bought this one at BestBuy, and I have to admit,
because it was $20 cheaper there than it was at the local computer store.
I figured they were the same power supply inside and out.

If I was a millionaire, I don't suppose I would really care. I'd just
keep buying parts until the problem is fixed. I know nobody here can do
anything about my poverty, but I can't help expressing the frustration. I
simply can't afford to run around and buy a bunch of testing equipment,
new parts, etc... until I just happen to run across what finally fixes the
problem. And while I do have an old video card, it's an AGP card and this
motherboard does not have an AGP slot.


I probably haven't done a very good job of explaining it.

The parts list for each power supply is consistent, and would stay
the same for the term of the contract.

It's the contract manufacturing step though, which tends to hide the
true source of what you're buying. If ThermalTake hired two contractors,
it might mean one of the products is higher quality than the other.
And then, for the customer, it's up to them to figure out which product
line is the "winner". (And you no longer think in terms of
"ThermalTake quality", because it depends on which contract manufacturer
made a particular product line.)

If I was to shop for Antec now, I'd pick the Delta manufactured
supply, rather than the ChannelWell one. (The Delta has a D in
the part number.)

There are companies that make their own supplies, and to some
extent, the faults seen, are common across a number of models.
With Fortron, it might be that the cables are too short for
your build. With Seasonic, they initially had problems with
slightly weak low voltage rails (like only being able to
draw half the rated 3.3V power). AFAIK that's been fixed. Not
only does Seasonic make their own supplies, they also contract
manufacture them.

PCPowerAndCooling also buys contract manufactured power supplies.
But they seemed to provide more input into the design process,
such that what they sold, wasn't compromised by who was
sourcing it. Since PCPower was bought out, they're not really
the same company any more, but some of the staff probably
stayed with the new owners.

Paul