WIll I be OK with an AMD64 3400+?

I am about to buy a new system and I am lookinig at an
AMD64 3400+ mainly cos I think it will use a bit less power
than an Intel option.

Am I likely to have any regrets? Are there any issues I should be
aware of.

I am not a gamer, just a surfer, biggest CPU usage will be stuff
like video, ie .wmv files or streaming video over the net (hoping to
see some free football matches if possible. Probably also use it
as a video recorder for TV programs too.
I expect to get 5 year minimum usage before upgrade.

Hello,

I am not a gamer, just a surfer, biggest CPU usage will be stuff
like video, ie .wmv files or streaming video over the net (hoping to
see some free football matches if possible. Probably also use it
as a video recorder for TV programs too.

Well, this processor will provide enough power but I think it's even too
much power for you! I've read something about new power saving
processors from AMD today. They are a bit more expensive (due to the
power saving functions) but if you want to buy an AMD 64 3400+ this
would be okay for you

The page I read tells something about a CPU from AMD with one core
called "Turion 64". This is a mobile processor which needs *only 25
Watt* (TDP)! I know a lot about hardware but don't know the details of
each processor. So find some pages via Google and read something about
this Turion64-CPU.

The advantage is that you save money (energy costs) and it will be
cooled easily, no *noisy* fans (a fan of course).

I think this will fit your purposes better

Daniel Böhmer, Germany

In article , "Emperor's New
Widescreen" wrote:

I am about to buy a new system and I am lookinig at an
AMD64 3400+ mainly cos I think it will use a bit less power
than an Intel option.

Am I likely to have any regrets? Are there any issues I should be
aware of.

I am not a gamer, just a surfer, biggest CPU usage will be stuff
like video, ie .wmv files or streaming video over the net (hoping to
see some free football matches if possible. Probably also use it
as a video recorder for TV programs too.
I expect to get 5 year minimum usage before upgrade.

I'd be worried about the rest of the box it is sitting in.
Specifically, are there any hardware upgrade options, like
room for a future video card upgrade if it is needed ?
(Look for a PCI Express x16 slot.) Does it have a decent
power supply, to run the upgrades with ? (300W is kinda
small, 450W leaves room to grow, but you aren't likely to
find a decent power supply in a prebuilt system.) Prebuilt
computers are fine, as long as they adhere to standards, and
don't leave you with a box that cannot be "improved" as
time passes. Avoid overly compact prebuilt computer cases,
as a more roomy case means fewer problems adding components
later. If it has good ventilation visible on the case, that
means room to improve the cooling if the need were to
arise. (Your disk drive is actually the part that needs
to be kept cool.)

Socket S754 is a dead end, and no faster processors will be
released for that socket. With the description of what you plan
to use it for, perhaps a 3400+ will be good for five years.
But your nym "Emperor's New Widescreen" implies you like large
video output capability, and perhaps some day your little computer
will run out of steam, running extremely large screens. With
LCDs, there is no way of knowing how big they will be in
five years.

It would be good if there was some room to overclock your
processor. The BIOS in prebuilt computers may not have the
controls necessary to attempt overclocking. There are programs
like A64tweaker, clockgen, rmclock, setfsb and the like, that
can still allow some amount of tweaking to be done, but a
BIOS capability guarantees you can do it in hardware. The
reason I mention overclocking, is it may be the only way
to squeeze more performance from your 3400+, when you are
complaining it is too slow three years from now :-)

If the computer has a mix of spare PCI slots and PCI
Express x1 slots, then you will be able to add a PCI
TV tuner card, or any futuristic PCI Express card types,
when the need arises. Chances are, as time passes, you'll
be interested in improving your tuner's capabilities
(picture-in-picture, DVB-T etc). Or maybe adding a sound
card, if the built-in sound has a poor signal to noise
ratio. (That may become evident when you try to use a
microphone with the computer.)

Paul

"Daniel Böhmer" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am not a gamer, just a surfer, biggest CPU usage will be stuff
like video, ie .wmv files or streaming video over the net (hoping to
see some free football matches if possible. Probably also use it
as a video recorder for TV programs too.

Well, this processor will provide enough power but I think it's even too
much power for you! I've read something about new power saving
processors from AMD today. They are a bit more expensive (due to the
power saving functions) but if you want to buy an AMD 64 3400+ this
would be okay for you

Well it might be more power than I want now but software writers have
a nasty habit of producing ever more CPU hungry applications!!
(My current CPU won't play some media files cos its too slow).
The 3400+ is just about 'entry level' for a new machine now anyway.
If I but a lesser system I lose out on the hard drive and memory.

The page I read tells something about a CPU from AMD with one core
called "Turion 64". This is a mobile processor which needs *only 25
Watt* (TDP)! I know a lot about hardware but don't know the details of
each processor. So find some pages via Google and read something about
this Turion64-CPU.

The advantage is that you save money (energy costs) and it will be
cooled easily, no *noisy* fans (a fan of course).

I think this will fit your purposes better


Thanks I will look into that, I really don't like noisy computers!
A mobile system would be good but you lose out on the hard drive etc.
A Turion in a desktop would be an option for me but I doubt they make
such a system.



Daniel Böhmer, Germany

"Paul" wrote in message
...
In article , "Emperor's New
Widescreen" wrote:

I am about to buy a new system and I am lookinig at an
AMD64 3400+ mainly cos I think it will use a bit less power
than an Intel option.

Am I likely to have any regrets? Are there any issues I should be
aware of.

I am not a gamer, just a surfer, biggest CPU usage will be stuff
like video, ie .wmv files or streaming video over the net (hoping to
see some free football matches if possible. Probably also use it
as a video recorder for TV programs too.
I expect to get 5 year minimum usage before upgrade.

I'd be worried about the rest of the box it is sitting in.
Specifically, are there any hardware upgrade options, like
room for a future video card upgrade if it is needed ?
(Look for a PCI Express x16 slot.) Does it have a decent
power supply, to run the upgrades with ? (300W is kinda
small, 450W leaves room to grow, but you aren't likely to
find a decent power supply in a prebuilt system.)

450 watts kind of scares me, it will soon cost more to run than
I paid for it (I like to have my computer 'always on'.).


Prebuilt
computers are fine, as long as they adhere to standards, and
don't leave you with a box that cannot be "improved" as
time passes. Avoid overly compact prebuilt computer cases,
as a more roomy case means fewer problems adding components
later. If it has good ventilation visible on the case, that
means room to improve the cooling if the need were to
arise. (Your disk drive is actually the part that needs
to be kept cool.)

Socket S754 is a dead end, and no faster processors will be
released for that socket. With the description of what you plan
to use it for, perhaps a 3400+ will be good for five years.
But your nym "Emperor's New Widescreen" implies you like large
video output capability, and perhaps some day your little computer
will run out of steam, running extremely large screens. With
LCDs, there is no way of knowing how big they will be in
five years.

My nym is intended to imply I hate widescreeen :O)
( Wide is visually inefficient).


I am hoping it is a 939 but it is really hard to find that info
out. However I guess even the 939 will be redundant before
I need to upgrade so it should not be a real problem, just
maybe a psychological one!

It would be good if there was some room to overclock your
processor. The BIOS in prebuilt computers may not have the
controls necessary to attempt overclocking. There are programs
like A64tweaker, clockgen, rmclock, setfsb and the like, that
can still allow some amount of tweaking to be done, but a
BIOS capability guarantees you can do it in hardware. The
reason I mention overclocking, is it may be the only way
to squeeze more performance from your 3400+, when you are
complaining it is too slow three years from now :-)


I would hope not my current CPU is *really* old :O)


If the computer has a mix of spare PCI slots and PCI
Express x1 slots, then you will be able to add a PCI
TV tuner card, or any futuristic PCI Express card types,
when the need arises. Chances are, as time passes, you'll
be interested in improving your tuner's capabilities
(picture-in-picture, DVB-T etc). Or maybe adding a sound
card, if the built-in sound has a poor signal to noise
ratio. (That may become evident when you try to use a
microphone with the computer.)


Yes one of the things which I might want to do is use my
comp as a 'media centre' which might make it redundant
sooner rather than later, however the costs of 'future proofing'
it would be outrageously expensive for me I would imagine.
I think it will just be more cost effective to buy another new
PC futher down the line, I am sure I would need a better hard,
optical drive and memory also in that case so a new system
would be in order anyway.

Thanks for your input, I think it should be fairly suitable
for me but I will consider the Turion option too.

Paul

450 watts kind of scares me, it will soon cost more to run than
I paid for it (I like to have my computer 'always on'.).

That does not mean you are using 450 W at all. It means your PS has the
ability to handle that power. You are only using what your system needs as
far as the hardware that is hooked up to it.


--
Jan Alter

or

"Emperor's New Widescreen" wrote in message
...

"Paul" wrote in message
...
In article , "Emperor's New
Widescreen" wrote:

I am about to buy a new system and I am lookinig at an
AMD64 3400+ mainly cos I think it will use a bit less power
than an Intel option.

Am I likely to have any regrets? Are there any issues I should be
aware of.

I am not a gamer, just a surfer, biggest CPU usage will be stuff
like video, ie .wmv files or streaming video over the net (hoping to
see some free football matches if possible. Probably also use it
as a video recorder for TV programs too.
I expect to get 5 year minimum usage before upgrade.

I'd be worried about the rest of the box it is sitting in.
Specifically, are there any hardware upgrade options, like
room for a future video card upgrade if it is needed ?
(Look for a PCI Express x16 slot.) Does it have a decent
power supply, to run the upgrades with ? (300W is kinda
small, 450W leaves room to grow, but you aren't likely to
find a decent power supply in a prebuilt system.)

450 watts kind of scares me, it will soon cost more to run than
I paid for it (I like to have my computer 'always on'.).


Prebuilt
computers are fine, as long as they adhere to standards, and
don't leave you with a box that cannot be "improved" as
time passes. Avoid overly compact prebuilt computer cases,
as a more roomy case means fewer problems adding components
later. If it has good ventilation visible on the case, that
means room to improve the cooling if the need were to
arise. (Your disk drive is actually the part that needs
to be kept cool.)

Socket S754 is a dead end, and no faster processors will be
released for that socket. With the description of what you plan
to use it for, perhaps a 3400+ will be good for five years.
But your nym "Emperor's New Widescreen" implies you like large
video output capability, and perhaps some day your little computer
will run out of steam, running extremely large screens. With
LCDs, there is no way of knowing how big they will be in
five years.

My nym is intended to imply I hate widescreeen :O)
( Wide is visually inefficient).


I am hoping it is a 939 but it is really hard to find that info
out. However I guess even the 939 will be redundant before
I need to upgrade so it should not be a real problem, just
maybe a psychological one!

It would be good if there was some room to overclock your
processor. The BIOS in prebuilt computers may not have the
controls necessary to attempt overclocking. There are programs
like A64tweaker, clockgen, rmclock, setfsb and the like, that
can still allow some amount of tweaking to be done, but a
BIOS capability guarantees you can do it in hardware. The
reason I mention overclocking, is it may be the only way
to squeeze more performance from your 3400+, when you are
complaining it is too slow three years from now :-)


I would hope not my current CPU is *really* old :O)


If the computer has a mix of spare PCI slots and PCI
Express x1 slots, then you will be able to add a PCI
TV tuner card, or any futuristic PCI Express card types,
when the need arises. Chances are, as time passes, you'll
be interested in improving your tuner's capabilities
(picture-in-picture, DVB-T etc). Or maybe adding a sound
card, if the built-in sound has a poor signal to noise
ratio. (That may become evident when you try to use a
microphone with the computer.)


Yes one of the things which I might want to do is use my
comp as a 'media centre' which might make it redundant
sooner rather than later, however the costs of 'future proofing'
it would be outrageously expensive for me I would imagine.
I think it will just be more cost effective to buy another new
PC futher down the line, I am sure I would need a better hard,
optical drive and memory also in that case so a new system
would be in order anyway.

Thanks for your input, I think it should be fairly suitable
for me but I will consider the Turion option too.

Paul

In article , "Emperor's New
Widescreen" wrote:

"Paul" wrote in message
...
In article , "Emperor's New
Widescreen" wrote:

I am about to buy a new system and I am lookinig at an
AMD64 3400+ mainly cos I think it will use a bit less power
than an Intel option.

Am I likely to have any regrets? Are there any issues I should be
aware of.

I am not a gamer, just a surfer, biggest CPU usage will be stuff
like video, ie .wmv files or streaming video over the net (hoping to
see some free football matches if possible. Probably also use it
as a video recorder for TV programs too.
I expect to get 5 year minimum usage before upgrade.

I'd be worried about the rest of the box it is sitting in.
Specifically, are there any hardware upgrade options, like
room for a future video card upgrade if it is needed ?
(Look for a PCI Express x16 slot.) Does it have a decent
power supply, to run the upgrades with ? (300W is kinda
small, 450W leaves room to grow, but you aren't likely to
find a decent power supply in a prebuilt system.)

450 watts kind of scares me, it will soon cost more to run than
I paid for it (I like to have my computer 'always on'.).

Wattage is an unfortunate way to specify power supplies.
The supply has multiple DC outputs, and each output has its
own limit. One output rail tends to be more heavily loaded
than the others, so the capacity goes mostly unused. In
other words, if you buy a 450W supply, there is virtually
no way to draw 450W out of it, short of some careful loading
in a laboratory. If we were gaming on your computer,
it might draw at most 150W to 200W (depending on how whizzy the
video card is). When I suggest a 450W, that is intended to
give you room to grow, not to actually put 450W load on your
power bill. It is the imprecision of the calculation of the
loading of the electronics in the computer, and the
inability to have a power supply designed just for the job,
that causes power supplies to be specified as large as they
are.

There are people who build up Shuttle barebones computers, and
they are frequently putting the same electronics in the machine
as you. Their supply choices (the supplies that will fit within
the tight confines of the box) might be 250W or 300W. But
those builders will also run into problems more often
while adding stuff to their systems - they will always
be on the edge of overload, both power wise, and thermally.
Their box draws 150W to 200W, like yours, but they will hit
the limits of one of their outputs with a higher probability
than you will. If all of the needs could be calculated in
advance, and all possible power supply output rail configurations
could be manufactured, then perhaps a special 250W supply would
be good enough. But supplies are cheap enough, that using a
sloppy 450W and not bothering to calculate in great detail,
is good enough.

snip

I am hoping it is a 939 but it is really hard to find that info
out. However I guess even the 939 will be redundant before
I need to upgrade so it should not be a real problem, just
maybe a psychological one!

If you go to www.amdcompare.com and click "View All Products",
you will see that all listed 3400+ processors are S754. The
only benefit to buying S939, is the fact that more powerful
processors are available for it. I wouldn't consider the
RAM aspect to be that much of an advantage. There was a review
on one website, where for gaming, several S754 processors did
just as well or better than their S939 counterparts, and that
article convinced me that when someone suggests they will buy
a S754, there is no reason from a performance perspective,
to try to dissuade them. But from an upgradability perspective,
the S939 processors might be around for a little bit longer
than the S754. And that would be the only reason to want that
socket at this point in time. Socket AM2 is coming soon, and
I think that makes S939 the "bottom rung".

snip

Thanks for your input, I think it should be fairly suitable
for me but I will consider the Turion option too.

I can see some Turion chips for sale on Newegg. And on this
DFI web page, I can see there are motherboards that will
support them. AFAIK, the Turion doesn't have a heat spreader
on top, just a bare die, and finding a heatsink/fan for the
thing is probably the biggest challenge. Also, not chipping
the silicon die, while fitting the heatsink/fan, would be
a fun aspect of using one.

http://us.dfi.com.tw/Support/mb_cpu_...E=null&SITE=US

(Picture of a Turion.)
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/cont...17C_lowres.jpg

I think you'll find a mainstream S754 runs cool enough when
it is idle. AMD has Cool N' Quiet, and like the gear shift
in a car, the processor gears down, when there is nothing
to do. The states are called P-states or power states (that
name coming from the ACPI spec).

If you look on page 9 of this document, you can see the
P-states for a 3400+ processor. So the processor does not
draw a constant 89W. It is capable of much less than that.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/cont...docs/30430.pdf

And if you get a copy of "rmclock", it is even possible to
tune the power further.

Paul

Still a fair bit though 450 Wis half a small electric fire
a considerble energy cost even if not running at max power.

"Jan Alter" wrote in message
news:R5vKf.9179$qa2.1463@trndny07...
450 watts kind of scares me, it will soon cost more to run than
I paid for it (I like to have my computer 'always on'.).

That does not mean you are using 450 W at all. It means your PS has the
ability to handle that power. You are only using what your system needs as
far as the hardware that is hooked up to it.


--
Jan Alter

450 watts kind of scares me, it will soon cost more to run than
I paid for it (I like to have my computer 'always on'.).

Wattage is an unfortunate way to specify power supplies.
The supply has multiple DC outputs, and each output has its
own limit. One output rail tends to be more heavily loaded
than the others, so the capacity goes mostly unused. In
other words, if you buy a 450W supply, there is virtually
no way to draw 450W out of it, short of some careful loading
in a laboratory. If we were gaming on your computer,
it might draw at most 150W to 200W (depending on how whizzy the
video card is). When I suggest a 450W, that is intended to
give you room to grow, not to actually put 450W load on your
power bill. It is the imprecision of the calculation of the
loading of the electronics in the computer, and the
inability to have a power supply designed just for the job,
that causes power supplies to be specified as large as they
are.

I am really not keen on a machine that uses about 1/2 kilowatt
of power!
In the UK it costs (I estimate) over 10p per kW/h and rising not much
but over a life time of say 20,000 hours quite a tidy sum.
Then you have the noise of the cooling fans to consider!


There are people who build up Shuttle barebones computers, and
they are frequently putting the same electronics in the machine
as you. Their supply choices (the supplies that will fit within
the tight confines of the box) might be 250W or 300W. But
those builders will also run into problems more often
while adding stuff to their systems - they will always
be on the edge of overload, both power wise, and thermally.
Their box draws 150W to 200W, like yours, but they will hit
the limits of one of their outputs with a higher probability
than you will. If all of the needs could be calculated in
advance, and all possible power supply output rail configurations
could be manufactured, then perhaps a special 250W supply would
be good enough. But supplies are cheap enough, that using a
sloppy 450W and not bothering to calculate in great detail,
is good enough.

snip

I am hoping it is a 939 but it is really hard to find that info
out. However I guess even the 939 will be redundant before
I need to upgrade so it should not be a real problem, just
maybe a psychological one!

If you go to www.amdcompare.com and click "View All Products",
you will see that all listed 3400+ processors are S754. The
only benefit to buying S939, is the fact that more powerful
processors are available for it. I wouldn't consider the
RAM aspect to be that much of an advantage. There was a review
on one website, where for gaming, several S754 processors did
just as well or better than their S939 counterparts, and that
article convinced me that when someone suggests they will buy
a S754, there is no reason from a performance perspective,
to try to dissuade them. But from an upgradability perspective,
the S939 processors might be around for a little bit longer
than the S754. And that would be the only reason to want that
socket at this point in time. Socket AM2 is coming soon, and
I think that makes S939 the "bottom rung".

I am not sure if there are no S939 ones because they have sold out
or were never made ( although I am sure I have seen then advertised
(actuallly rechecking I can't find any)).
I expect the machine I saw will be 754 though (probably cheaper to make).
Also the cache sizes seem to depend on frequency
2000 256kb
2200 1mb
2400 1/2mb

I am not at all sure how all these models achieve the same PR value
the 2000 256kb model looks a poor buy compared to the other two.
( I expect the machine I saw has this configuration!)

I expect I will go with the 754, there probably is not that much
more upgradability in the 939 and they appear to be pretty hard
to get hold of (ready made) for a reasonable price.


snip

Thanks for your input, I think it should be fairly suitable
for me but I will consider the Turion option too.

I can see some Turion chips for sale on Newegg. And on this
DFI web page, I can see there are motherboards that will
support them. AFAIK, the Turion doesn't have a heat spreader
on top, just a bare die, and finding a heatsink/fan for the
thing is probably the biggest challenge. Also, not chipping
the silicon die, while fitting the heatsink/fan, would be
a fun aspect of using one.


http://us.dfi.com.tw/Support/mb_cpu_...E=null&SITE=US

(Picture of a Turion.)

http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/cont...17C_lowres.jpg

I think you'll find a mainstream S754 runs cool enough when
it is idle. AMD has Cool N' Quiet, and like the gear shift
in a car, the processor gears down, when there is nothing
to do. The states are called P-states or power states (that
name coming from the ACPI spec).

If you look on page 9 of this document, you can see the
P-states for a 3400+ processor. So the processor does not
draw a constant 89W. It is capable of much less than that.


http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/cont...docs/30430.pdf

And if you get a copy of "rmclock", it is even possible to
tune the power further.

Paul

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 14:24:22 GMT, "Emperor's New Widescreen"
wrote:

Still a fair bit though 450 Wis half a small electric fire
a considerble energy cost even if not running at max power.



As already mentioned, you have no relative expectation based
on the "450W" figure. It is primarily to support the high #
of amps on the 12V rail that modern systems use at peak or
full load.

If you're that concerned about energy usage or energy cost,
don't buy it- simple as that.