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Anyone using Canon Pixma with non-canon cartridges?
Hello
I need to do short and long runs of flyers for mailing (mostly black text, some photos) I will never need to print photos on photo quality paper. I can get replacement cartridges very, very cheap which makes it less expensive in the long run than getting a colour laser printer. I would like to know your personal experience using the ip4000 or ip5000 with replacement cartridges continously........ has anyone used them non-stop since they bought their printer? How many have you used so far? Please mention if you refill yourself or buy no-name cartridges ready to go. How is your print quality now compared to the original cartridge the printer came with? The main problem with using these dodgy cartridges appears to be clogging of the print head. I would be interested in anyone's thoughts on which printer would be best with non-original cartridges. Would the ip4000 with the 2 picoliter droplets be better than the ip5000 with the 1 picolitre droplets, as it is wider and therefore less chance of clogging? |
#2
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Mapanari wrote: "Zan" s.com: Hello I need to do short and long runs of flyers for mailing (mostly black text, some photos) I will never need to print photos on photo quality paper. I can get replacement cartridges very, very cheap which makes it less expensive in the long run than getting a colour laser printer. I would like to know your personal experience using the ip4000 or ip5000 with replacement cartridges continously........ has anyone used them non-stop since they bought their printer? How many have you used so far? Please mention if you refill yourself or buy no-name cartridges ready to go. How is your print quality now compared to the original cartridge the printer came with? The main problem with using these dodgy cartridges appears to be clogging of the print head. I would be interested in anyone's thoughts on which printer would be best with non-original cartridges. Would the ip4000 with the 2 picoliter droplets be better than the ip5000 with the 1 picolitre droplets, as it is wider and therefore less chance of clogging? I seriously think that all those rumors and innuendos about "dodgy" carts and ink are just that...put out by the printer companies. Some but not all. I spoke to a guy buying Canon OEM because the dodgies clogged his printhead in his i960. The could not remember the name the dodge called himself - maybe a Chrysler? :-) See, they make all their profits on carts. Hell, the whole of HP computer and everything is only profitable because of HP cart sales! Carly Fiorina made off with over 300 million dollars all told from the shareholders of HP, and all that was cart profits! Well she has brains, looks and money. Wouldn't you like to? The research I've done, and as a former purchasing manger/buyer, leads me to believe that almost all OEM ink comes from only a few places, and they sell the same bulk ink to online resellers; They are made to the Printer Mfg specifications and formulaes so the exact stuff is not sold. with the caveat that they can't say "Same as HP ink!" because that would screw their sales of bulk ink to HP and Canon et al. The formula and the ink is pretty basic. I've been refilling my carts for years and have never had a problem you've described. My Epson piece of **** went toast because, it's an epson, not becuase of the ink. It clogs up in a heartbeat. Those rumors are ciculated to keep you paying $48 for a cartridge that can be refilled for under $2.00 by yourself. I buy Canon OEM for $9.00 a cart Hell, Epson is so greedy for cart sales that they have tiny chip on their carts that are read by the printer if they're ever taken out and re- installed....you have to buy a special chip reprogramer for &17.00 on line to refill those carts! But someone figured out how to do it and is selling them! Yah! WhoRay for them. Another reason why I'll never buy epson again. I bought my canon because it's so simple to refill them. |
#3
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"Mapanari" wrote in message ... The research I've done, and as a former purchasing manger/buyer, leads me to believe that almost all OEM ink comes from only a few places, and they sell the same bulk ink to online resellers; with the caveat that they can't say "Same as HP ink!" because that would screw their sales of bulk ink to HP and Canon et al. The formula and the ink is pretty basic. Your research is faulty. Making an ink formulation that gives optimum lightfastness, black to color bleed, print quality, image quality, optical density, color balance and other parameters while still maintaining nozzle health is not something printer manufacturers just pick off the shelf. Printer companies invest heavily in ink chemistry and they typically own the intellectual property of given formulations. HP, Epson and Cannon have hundred of ink related patents. - Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP |
#4
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I agree with Bob, that a great deal of investment is made in designing
the OEM inks. However, many of these designs (which they patent) are not so much improvements as they are designed to make it difficult to replicate without patent violation. Now this is not the case in every patent they make regarding inks, but I've seen some of the Canon, HP, and Epson patents and it looks like every thing they do they get a patent for it, whether it has some benefit or not. Given the prices HP and other companies charge for the cartridges they well afford to obtain and enforce such patents. Don't get me wrong, I love HP laser printers (I can live without their inkjets). But I've used both OEM and 3rd party party products in all the printers I have available to me and I know that there are 3rd party solutions that work just as well as the OEM, without killing the machines. However, I believe that 3rd party solutions are best used by those who have the time and abilty to work with their equipment or who can find a 3rd party source thay can trust (referrals from a trusted friend who can demonstrate their use is always good). I've made 3rd party solutions into a business and know first hand that their are both well made and p*** poor sources of 3rd party products out there. That said, it does not mean that alternate sources can't be just as good. A great deal of money is invested by 3rd party ink manufacturers (some of whom act as the OEM co-manufacturer for companies such as HP, Canon , Epson , Lexmark) in designing inks and toners which replicate the characteristics of the formulations with patented characteristics without violating patents. Keep in mind that a good 3rd party solution may not be just the ink or toner alone, but usually include alternate media, cartridges and/or processes which permit the 3rd party product to work like the OEM. The level of involvement you wish to make in your 3rd party solution quite often determines how well it works for your specific needs. OEM solutions presented by the printer maker are fast and easy, but you pay the price, since these companies do invest a great deal of money to make it fast and easy. So the price you pay is for the technology which makes the printers as easy to use and maintain as possible with the minimal amount of involvement on your end other than to click and print. |
#5
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Mapanari wrote: "Bob Headrick" : "Mapanari" wrote in message ... The research I've done, and as a former purchasing manger/buyer, leads me to believe that almost all OEM ink comes from only a few places, and they sell the same bulk ink to online resellers; with the caveat that they can't say "Same as HP ink!" because that would screw their sales of bulk ink to HP and Canon et al. The formula and the ink is pretty basic. Your research is faulty. Making an ink formulation that gives optimum lightfastness, black to color bleed, print quality, image quality, optical density, color balance and other parameters while still maintaining nozzle health is not something printer manufacturers just pick off the shelf. Printer companies invest heavily in ink chemistry and they typically own the intellectual property of given formulations. HP, Epson and Cannon have hundred of ink related patents. - Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP Right...and Exxon gas will put a tiger in your tank and BP gas will help clean your valves and Texaco gas will give you better milage....and yet....all the tanker trucks stop off at the same HESS Refinary depot every morning from every station and refill their tanker trucks with the same gas. And yet, millions of mooing morons will swear they get better gas milage by using Exxon instead of that "no name gas on the corner, which has water in it it and is cheap bad gas!", and pay an extra 30c a gallon too! Son, you really are a child of the 80's advertising mass media consumption market. Granted, there is a slight diference in some inks, but 90% of the diference is in advertising, not physical properties. And that is why you hear of printhead clogs all over this NG. And the majority of the users reporting these problems are not using OEM BRANDED inks. |
#6
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"Son" you really don't know what you are speaking of, about gasoline or
about inks. In my neck of the woods, people like you are referred to (in polite circles) as "Sophomores" it's greek and it means "wise foolish" because you think you know a great deal more than you do. You are correct that gas is often refined at a centralized locale and that the companies use each others refineries and trucking, because it makes no sense at all to ship the gasoline hundreds of miles when their is a much closer refinery or distribution point. However, what makes gasoline unique and cost different amounts, other than some distilling properties, is additives. And additives are just that, they are added to the gasoline either in the tanker itself, at the refinery just as it is pumped, or sometimes even at the gas station. And it is these additives that often do make a difference in performance. There are studies done by independent research facilities that prove all gasoline is not the same. Some additives improve combustion, or change flash point temperature, or reduce carbon build up. Yes, cars will run on pretty much any gasoline that comes close to the required octane rating for the compression ration of the cylinders, but that does not mean it will run efficiently and with the least wear. Just because you may be too oblivious to recognize when an engine runs well and when it doesn't, or if it gets superior gas mileage doesn't mean it doesn't do so. And, to a certain extent, the same holds for inks. If you, as I, had taken the time to read the patents surrounding inkjet ink formulations, and if you had any understanding of the complexities of the technologies involved, instead of b*tching about the $29 printer you got a year's use out of, you'd be absolutely fascinated by the marvel of a printer capable of such precision costing so little. I use 3rd party inks, and I voted against everything I could involving things Carly F. did at HP, but you are way off here. Art Mapanari wrote: "Bob Headrick" : "Mapanari" wrote in message ... The research I've done, and as a former purchasing manger/buyer, leads me to believe that almost all OEM ink comes from only a few places, and they sell the same bulk ink to online resellers; with the caveat that they can't say "Same as HP ink!" because that would screw their sales of bulk ink to HP and Canon et al. The formula and the ink is pretty basic. Your research is faulty. Making an ink formulation that gives optimum lightfastness, black to color bleed, print quality, image quality, optical density, color balance and other parameters while still maintaining nozzle health is not something printer manufacturers just pick off the shelf. Printer companies invest heavily in ink chemistry and they typically own the intellectual property of given formulations. HP, Epson and Cannon have hundred of ink related patents. - Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP Right...and Exxon gas will put a tiger in your tank and BP gas will help clean your valves and Texaco gas will give you better milage....and yet....all the tanker trucks stop off at the same HESS Refinary depot every morning from every station and refill their tanker trucks with the same gas. And yet, millions of mooing morons will swear they get better gas milage by using Exxon instead of that "no name gas on the corner, which has water in it it and is cheap bad gas!", and pay an extra 30c a gallon too! Son, you really are a child of the 80's advertising mass media consumption market. Granted, there is a slight diference in some inks, but 90% of the diference is in advertising, not physical properties. |
#7
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#8
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Arthur Entlich wrote: "Son" you really don't know what you are speaking of, about gasoline or about inks. In my neck of the woods, people like you are referred to (in polite circles) as "Sophomores" it's greek and it means "wise foolish" because you think you know a great deal more than you do. You are correct that gas is often refined at a centralized locale and that the companies use each others refineries and trucking, because it makes no sense at all to ship the gasoline hundreds of miles when their is a much closer refinery or distribution point. However, what makes gasoline unique and cost different amounts, other than some distilling properties, is additives. And additives are just that, they are added to the gasoline either in the tanker itself, at the refinery just as it is pumped, or sometimes even at the gas station. Hooray! Perfectly said. And it is these additives that often do make a difference in performance. There are studies done by independent research facilities that prove all gasoline is not the same. Some additives improve combustion, or change flash point temperature, or reduce carbon build up. Yes, cars will run on pretty much any gasoline that comes close to the required octane rating for the compression ration of the cylinders, but that does not mean it will run efficiently and with the least wear. Just because you may be too oblivious to recognize when an engine runs well and when it doesn't, or if it gets superior gas mileage doesn't mean it doesn't do so. And, to a certain extent, the same holds for inks. If you, as I, had taken the time to read the patents surrounding inkjet ink formulations, and if you had any understanding of the complexities of the technologies involved, instead of b*tching about the $29 printer you got a year's use out of, you'd be absolutely fascinated by the marvel of a printer capable of such precision costing so little. I use 3rd party inks, and I voted against everything I could involving things Carly F. did at HP, but you are way off here. But I would like to give her a :-* . Art Mapanari wrote: "Bob Headrick" : "Mapanari" wrote in message ... The research I've done, and as a former purchasing manger/buyer, leads me to believe that almost all OEM ink comes from only a few places, and they sell the same bulk ink to online resellers; with the caveat that they can't say "Same as HP ink!" because that would screw their sales of bulk ink to HP and Canon et al. The formula and the ink is pretty basic. Your research is faulty. Making an ink formulation that gives optimum lightfastness, black to color bleed, print quality, image quality, optical density, color balance and other parameters while still maintaining nozzle health is not something printer manufacturers just pick off the shelf. Printer companies invest heavily in ink chemistry and they typically own the intellectual property of given formulations. HP, Epson and Cannon have hundred of ink related patents. - Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP Right...and Exxon gas will put a tiger in your tank and BP gas will help clean your valves and Texaco gas will give you better milage....and yet....all the tanker trucks stop off at the same HESS Refinary depot every morning from every station and refill their tanker trucks with the same gas. And yet, millions of mooing morons will swear they get better gas milage by using Exxon instead of that "no name gas on the corner, which has water in it it and is cheap bad gas!", and pay an extra 30c a gallon too! Son, you really are a child of the 80's advertising mass media consumption market. Granted, there is a slight diference in some inks, but 90% of the diference is in advertising, not physical properties. |
#9
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Larry wrote: In article tm94e.150918$gJ3.139225@clgrps13, says... Yes, cars will run on pretty much any gasoline that comes close to the required octane rating for the compression ration of the cylinders, but that does not mean it will run efficiently and with the least wear. Just because you may be too oblivious to recognize when an engine runs well and when it doesn't, or if it gets superior gas mileage doesn't mean it doesn't do so. And, to a certain extent, the same holds for inks. If you, as I, had taken the time to read the patents surrounding inkjet ink formulations, and if you had any understanding of the complexities of the technologies involved, instead of b*tching about the $29 printer you got a year's use out of, you'd be absolutely fascinated by the marvel of a printer capable of such precision costing so little. I use 3rd party inks, and I voted against everything I could involving things Carly F. did at HP, but you are way off here. Art I have used third party inks for years with Canon printers (going all the way back to the BJC-600) and I have found that if you buy high quality ink, you wonr have a problem. Without real BRANDING by a real manufacturer/formulator; how do you tell real quality? As a matter of fact, the only Canon print head Ive had fail on me (so far) never had anything other than OEM ink in it. It was in one of my i950 printers. After about six months of daily use, it simply wouldnt print Magenta any more. I called Canon Tech. support and they put me through a few simple test (which I had already done, and then some), and at the end of maybe 20 minutes, the tech decided the head needed replacement. All he required of me was a name, address, and serial number of the printer. New head arrived within 3 days. I dont shop for price when I buy ink, rather I stick with what I found early on, and so far, it has worked well for me. For my Canon printers (right now 2 I960, 1 ip4000, 1I950) I use ink from MIS, and/or Formulabs. I do not buy generic carts prefilled, I buy OEM carts and refill them and I buy empty carts from MIS. I do NOT mix inkbrands. If a printer has MIS ink in it I simply put a piece of masking tape on it (uaually under the lid) with a big letter M on it, and a big letter F goes on the printer with Formulabs. I do, from time to time change the ink from one brand to another in a given printer, but ONLY after a good "flushing" with distilled water mixed with about 10% household Ammonia. Since January 1 2005 I have printed over 300 8x10" photos, and about 150 5x7" photos (going by the difference in paper invetory between then and now) and other than a cleaning cycle right after changing carts, no other maintenance has been required on the two printers used. (ip400, and my oldest I960). I do recommend however, if you are refilling Canon Cartridges, dont wait 'till the cartridge is EMPTY.. replace the cart when the indicator says LOW. That way you never have a situation where the sponge dries out, and you dont have to "prime" the sponge. I keep about ten sets of carts, filled and ready, and when there are more than three or four carts waiting to be filled, I do them all at once, giving them about ten minutes to "equalize .(10 minutes is enough time for the sponge to fill up if it was low). After the 10 minute wait, I top off any carts that have dropped in level when the sponge filled up, then tape over ALL openings on the carts, including the vents. Then I store them 'till I need them. REMEMBER THIS IF YOU REFILL: Any place that sells bulk ink that says "this ink works in all unkjet printers" is lying. There is NO one ink that will work in more than one type of printer reliably. Strange as it is, those inks seem to be formulated to work in Lexmark printers. My friend buys generic refill ink at Sears (at least he did 'till they stopped selling it) and it worked in his Lexmark 3 in one. But then we are talking Lexmark, not a real printer. |
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