External USB Hard-Drive - USB v1.0 or v2.0? - 5,400rpm or 7,200rpm? - 2MB cache or 8MB cache?

Simple Version:

I need to backup 1GB-80GBs of data twice a week on different clients
machines. I intend to use a USB v1.0 - 2.0 enclosure.

Can the USB (v1.0 or 2.0) interface take advantage of more *advanced* drive
features over the standard 5,400rpm/2MB cache. For example would a newer
7,200rpm/8MB cache be faster at making large back-ups than the older drives
when they were being used via USB?
--
Wayne ][



(Long Version)

Hi all,

I want to *create* an external USB hard-drive that I can use to *backup*
stuff on clients machines when I do a *clean* install of WindowsXP.

I mean their MP3's, word documents, etc. . .

If the data is just like like .docs and doesn't exceed 128MB-256MB I could
just use a USB *pen-drive*, but allot of people now have many GB's of data
in My Documents (DivX, MP3, APE, etc) so I figure the best way to go is to
buy an *External* USB housing and slap in a 40-80GB disk.

I did a bit of research and noticed that *Fire-Wire* is faster in this
situation, but not all machines have a FireWire port, so that's why I am
thinking of USB. I did also notice that you can get External housing that
is both USB and FireWire but I didn't find one for sale yet in U.K.

This is the kit I am thinking of buying:
BELKIN - Hi-Speed USB 2.0 External Drive Enclosure Kit (£58.74 inc VAT UK)

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProdu...USB%2FUSB20%2F

So anyway I am wondering whether I what sort of IDE hard disk to get?.

1) Buy nice shiny new IDE HDD 7,200rpm 8Mb cache
1a) Use this in the new USB v2.0 enclosure to max performance
1b) Use this is my 2nd PC and install old *slower*drive in new USB
enclosure

2) Just buy an older 5,400rpm 2Mb cache
2a) Slap it in the new USB v2.0 enclosure

I don't know if USBv1.1 and USBv2.0 are strong enough to *need* a blazing
drive? also what about the cache, is 2MB or 8MB gonna make any difference.
--
Wayne ][

Can the USB (v1.0 or 2.0) interface take advantage of more *advanced*
drive
features over the standard 5,400rpm/2MB cache. For example would a newer
7,200rpm/8MB cache be faster at making large back-ups than the older
drives
when they were being used via USB?

Have a look at this FAQ-page: http://www.usb.org/faq/ans2

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:00:08 +0000 (UTC), "Wayne Youngman"
wrote:

I did a bit of research and noticed that *Fire-Wire* is faster in this
situation, but not all machines have a FireWire port, so that's why I am
thinking of USB. I did also notice that you can get External housing that
is both USB and FireWire but I didn't find one for sale yet in U.K.

You can get combo enclosures in the UK. There is one advertised on
Ebay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...ory=16 8&rd=1

And this company has some:

http://www.rlsupplies.co.uk/cat231_1.htm

No idea what the quality is like in either case. I'm thinking of
buying one of these in the future, so let us know how you get on.

Chris

Andy wrote
Have a look at this FAQ-page: http://www.usb.org/faq/ans2
Also see: http://www4.tomshardware.com/mobile/20020827/index.html

As you will have gathered from the first link, transfer via a USB 1
interface
would be very slow. From the Tomsharware link above a device using a USB
2
interface would certainly benefit from the better performance of 7200 RPM
and
higher cache drives.

http://www4.tomshardware.com/storage...915/index.html also gives a good
indication of what can be expected from external drives.


Hi,
thanks for links, had a good read!. Hmmm so it would seem that the USB v2.0
interface is good enough to take advantage of the extra spindle speeds
(7,200rpm) and also the extra cache (8MB).

Will have to read a bit more. . .
--
Wayne ][

Wayne Youngman
wrote in message ...

Simple Version:

I need to backup 1GB-80GBs of data twice a week on different
clients machines. I intend to use a USB v1.0 - 2.0 enclosure.

Can the USB (v1.0 or 2.0) interface take advantage of more
*advanced* drive features over the standard 5,400rpm/2MB
cache. For example would a newer 7,200rpm/8MB cache be
faster at making large back-ups than the older drives when
they were being used via USB?

Yes, but its basically just the rpm that matters.
And a housing that supports the fastest firewire
in spades. It may be worth adding the fastest
firewire to the PCs for the better speed.

And cooling can be a problem with 7200 rpm drives in external
housings that dont deliberately attempt to cool the drive somehow,
either with a fan or excellent conduction to a metal case etc.


(Long Version)

I want to *create* an external USB hard-drive that I can use to *backup*
stuff on clients machines when I do a *clean* install of WindowsXP.

I mean their MP3's, word documents, etc. . .

If the data is just like like .docs and doesn't exceed 128MB-256MB I could
just use a USB *pen-drive*, but allot of people now have many GB's of data
in My Documents (DivX, MP3, APE, etc) so I figure the best way to go is to
buy an *External* USB housing and slap in a 40-80GB disk.

Sure.

I did a bit of research and noticed that *Fire-Wire* is faster
in this situation, but not all machines have a FireWire port,

But it doesnt cost much to add firewire to a PC that doesnt have it.

so that's why I am thinking of USB.

Makes more sense to get a combo housing that does both.

I did also notice that you can get External housing that is both
USB and FireWire but I didn't find one for sale yet in U.K.

Cant have looked very hard.

This is the kit I am thinking of buying:
BELKIN - Hi-Speed USB 2.0 External Drive Enclosure Kit (£58.74 inc VAT UK)


http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProdu...USB%2FUSB20%2F

So anyway I am wondering whether I what sort of IDE hard disk to get?.

1) Buy nice shiny new IDE HDD 7,200rpm 8Mb cache

The cache isnt relevant.

1a) Use this in the new USB v2.0 enclosure to max performance
1b) Use this is my 2nd PC and install old *slower*drive in new USB enclosure

That last would give the better overall performance.

2) Just buy an older 5,400rpm 2Mb cache
2a) Slap it in the new USB v2.0 enclosure

I don't know if USBv1.1 and USBv2.0 are
strong enough to *need* a blazing drive?

You'll find that USB 1.1 is irritatingly slow if you move that 10GBs
much. Well worth adding USB2 to that dinosaur or firewire.

also what about the cache, is 2MB or 8MB gonna make any difference.

Nope. It isnt even noticeable with a desktop PC with a
double blind trial without being allowed to use a benchmark.
That sort of copying of a decent quantity of data by one
app isnt an op that the cache makes much difference with.

"Wayne Youngman" wrote in message ...

Andy wrote
Have a look at this FAQ-page: http://www.usb.org/faq/ans2
Also see: http://www4.tomshardware.com/mobile/20020827/index.html

As you will have gathered from the first link, transfer via a USB 1
interface
would be very slow. From the Tomsharware link above a device using a USB
2
interface would certainly benefit from the better performance of 7200 RPM
and
higher cache drives.

http://www4.tomshardware.com/storage...915/index.html also gives a good
indication of what can be expected from external drives.


Hi,
thanks for links, had a good read!. Hmmm so it would seem that the USB v2.0
interface is good enough to take advantage of the extra spindle speeds
(7,200rpm) and also the extra cache (8MB).

Not with your sort of use with the cache.

Will have to read a bit more. . .
--
Wayne ][

Andy wrote in message
On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 14:57:18 GMT, Fred H wrote:

Have a look at this FAQ-page: http://www.usb.org/faq/ans2

Also see: http://www4.tomshardware.com/mobile/20020827/index.html

As you will have gathered from the first link, transfer via a USB 1 inter-
face would be very slow. From the Tomsharware link above a device using

a USB 2 interface would certainly benefit from the better performance
of 7200 RPM and higher cache drives.

Nope, it won't. Current 5400rpm drives will easily flood USB2.


http://www4.tomshardware.com/storage...915/index.html also
gives a good indication of what can be expected from external drives.

Andy

"Wayne Youngman" wrote in message
Andy wrote
Have a look at this FAQ-page: http://www.usb.org/faq/ans2
Also see: http://www4.tomshardware.com/mobile/20020827/index.html

As you will have gathered from the first link, transfer via a USB 1 interface
would be very slow. From the Tomsharware link above a device using a USB 2
interface would certainly benefit from the better performance of 7200 RPM
and higher cache drives.

http://www4.tomshardware.com/storage...915/index.html also gives a
good indication of what can be expected from external drives.


Hi,
thanks for links, had a good read!. Hmmm so it would seem that the USB v2.0
interface is good enough to take advantage of the extra spindle speeds
(7,200rpm) and also the extra cache (8MB).

Nope.


Will have to read a bit more. . .

Indeed.

"Rod Speed" wrote
snip
Yes, but its basically just the rpm that matters.
And a housing that supports the fastest firewire
in spades. It may be worth adding the fastest
firewire to the PCs for the better speed.

And cooling can be a problem with 7200 rpm drives in external
housings that dont deliberately attempt to cool the drive somehow,
either with a fan or excellent conduction to a metal case etc.


Hi,
thanks Rod for your reply. I don't really have the option to install
*FireWire* adapters into every machine, but I do have FireWire in my own
machine so I will take another look for a good value *combo*
(USB2.0/FireWire) enclosure.

So the 7,200rpm will help transfer speeds? that's interesting as I wasn't
sure if the USBv2.0 specs could utilize this. . . .
--
Wayne ][

"Wayne Youngman" wrote in message ...

"Rod Speed" wrote
snip
Yes, but its basically just the rpm that matters.
And a housing that supports the fastest firewire
in spades. It may be worth adding the fastest
firewire to the PCs for the better speed.

And cooling can be a problem with 7200 rpm drives in external
housings that dont deliberately attempt to cool the drive somehow,
either with a fan or excellent conduction to a metal case etc.


Hi,
thanks Rod for your reply. I don't really have the option to install
*FireWire* adapters into every machine, but I do have FireWire in my own
machine so I will take another look for a good value *combo*
(USB2.0/FireWire) enclosure.

So the 7,200rpm will help transfer speeds?

Really depends on what you do to move the files
to and from the external drive and whether you
will ever do that using the new faster firewire 800

that's interesting as I wasn't sure if the USBv2.0 specs could utilize this. . . .

Generally they cant. I was more referring there to the
firewire alt and should have said that more carefully.