DDR Confusion

The more I Google, the more confused I get.

I'm trying to upgrade the RAM on a five-year-old Biostar M7VIG Pro-D
motherboard with an Athlon XP 1900+ processor. Specs say it maxes at two
modules of 1GB DDR266 PC2100, and that's what I'm looking for.
Currently, I'm using two 128MB PC2100 modules. They're working just
fine, but with my last Linux update I'm seeing signs that it's getting
cramped in there.

I bought a PNY 2GB PC3200 kit from Newegg ($42.99, free shipping), but I
had problems with it. It was supposed to be compatible with PC2100, even
stated so on the package. It installed fine, and the BIOS recognized the
full 2GB from the start - as did Mandriva 2009.0. But, after a few
minutes things started crashing, until the whole system crashed.
Rebooted - same result. Re-installed the old RAM, and Mandriva was again
as rock-stable as ever. I don't know if the modules were incompatible,
or just defective, but I RMA'ed them as "incompatible," and shipped them
back to Newegg today.

I'm beginning to wonder if it's the high/low density thing that's the
problem. PNY's FAQ states that they only use high density chips these
days, and my board is supposed to use low density chips, I guess. But,
my reading indicates that the most usual density symptom is
non-recognition of all the memory - and my board saw it all.

Crucial lists a PC2700 module as compatible, and Newegg will sell a pair
of them for about the same as the PNY kit. However, a couple of the over
100 reviewers said they had problems similar to mine, and the Crucial
specs say "128M x 64," and at least one forum I visited (God knows where
- seems like I've been to hundreds) said that 128M anything is high
density and won't work on many older boards like mine. But over 100
customers had no problems, and they include other brands of boards as
old as mine. I might try it on the strength of Crucial's memory finder,
but Newegg already has ONE restocking fee out of me - I don't want to
shell out more.

My head's beginning to hurt, and aspirin isn't helping. Can anybody
clear some of this up?

TJ

"TJ" wrote in message
...
The more I Google, the more confused I get.

I'm trying to upgrade the RAM on a five-year-old Biostar M7VIG Pro-D
motherboard with an Athlon XP 1900+ processor. Specs say it maxes at two
modules of 1GB DDR266 PC2100, and that's what I'm looking for.
Currently, I'm using two 128MB PC2100 modules. They're working just
fine, but with my last Linux update I'm seeing signs that it's getting
cramped in there.

I bought a PNY 2GB PC3200 kit from Newegg ($42.99, free shipping), but I
had problems with it. It was supposed to be compatible with PC2100, even
stated so on the package. It installed fine, and the BIOS recognized the
full 2GB from the start - as did Mandriva 2009.0. But, after a few
minutes things started crashing, until the whole system crashed.
Rebooted - same result. Re-installed the old RAM, and Mandriva was again
as rock-stable as ever. I don't know if the modules were incompatible,
or just defective, but I RMA'ed them as "incompatible," and shipped them
back to Newegg today.

I'm beginning to wonder if it's the high/low density thing that's the
problem. PNY's FAQ states that they only use high density chips these
days, and my board is supposed to use low density chips, I guess. But,
my reading indicates that the most usual density symptom is
non-recognition of all the memory - and my board saw it all.

Crucial lists a PC2700 module as compatible, and Newegg will sell a pair
of them for about the same as the PNY kit. However, a couple of the over
100 reviewers said they had problems similar to mine, and the Crucial
specs say "128M x 64," and at least one forum I visited (God knows where
- seems like I've been to hundreds) said that 128M anything is high
density and won't work on many older boards like mine. But over 100
customers had no problems, and they include other brands of boards as
old as mine. I might try it on the strength of Crucial's memory finder,
but Newegg already has ONE restocking fee out of me - I don't want to
shell out more.

My head's beginning to hurt, and aspirin isn't helping. Can anybody
clear some of this up?

TJ

Yeah, you don't need more than 256MB for linux. One of my systems runs
great with 256MB of RAM. Did I mention it runs XP Pro? If you think
you need more RAM, you probably need to adjust your linux swap partition.

And it's foolish to buy a RAM upgrade for such an old system anyway. I've
seen biostar mainboards last longer than five years and still be rock-solid
stable. But I'd be shocked if you don't have some other component crap out
on you soon (video card?, power supply?). When that happens, you are going
to wish you hadn't bought more RAM for that system, as you will be starting
from scratch to rebuild.

If you INSIST on doing this though, a one-word answer is what you are
seeking. Kingston. You're welcome. -Dave

TJ wrote:
The more I Google, the more confused I get.

I'm trying to upgrade the RAM on a five-year-old Biostar M7VIG Pro-D
motherboard with an Athlon XP 1900+ processor. Specs say it maxes at two
modules of 1GB DDR266 PC2100, and that's what I'm looking for.
Currently, I'm using two 128MB PC2100 modules. They're working just
fine, but with my last Linux update I'm seeing signs that it's getting
cramped in there.

If you're running a GUI, then yeah, I'd recommend 1GB RAM.


I bought a PNY 2GB PC3200 kit from Newegg ($42.99, free shipping), but I
had problems with it. It was supposed to be compatible with PC2100, even
stated so on the package. It installed fine, and the BIOS recognized the
full 2GB from the start - as did Mandriva 2009.0. But, after a few
minutes things started crashing, until the whole system crashed.
Rebooted - same result. Re-installed the old RAM, and Mandriva was again
as rock-stable as ever. I don't know if the modules were incompatible,
or just defective, but I RMA'ed them as "incompatible," and shipped them
back to Newegg today.

Did you run a memory tester program, susch as memtest86 or memtest86+?
If you haven't done any testing, then you have no idea what's going on,
and you could have just had a faulty module.


I'm beginning to wonder if it's the high/low density thing that's the
problem. PNY's FAQ states that they only use high density chips these
days, and my board is supposed to use low density chips, I guess. But,
my reading indicates that the most usual density symptom is
non-recognition of all the memory - and my board saw it all.

Buy what your board wants.


Crucial lists a PC2700 module as compatible, and Newegg will sell a pair
of them for about the same as the PNY kit. However, a couple of the over
100 reviewers said they had problems similar to mine, and the Crucial
specs say "128M x 64," and at least one forum I visited (God knows where
- seems like I've been to hundreds) said that 128M anything is high
density and won't work on many older boards like mine.

Buy from crucial for your board, they guarantee the memory will work
(unless your board is dying).

But over 100
customers had no problems, and they include other brands of boards as
old as mine. I might try it on the strength of Crucial's memory finder,
but Newegg already has ONE restocking fee out of me - I don't want to
shell out more.

Buy from crucial then.


My head's beginning to hurt, and aspirin isn't helping. Can anybody
clear some of this up?

TJ


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TJ wrote:
The more I Google, the more confused I get.

I'm trying to upgrade the RAM on a five-year-old Biostar M7VIG Pro-D
motherboard with an Athlon XP 1900+ processor. Specs say it maxes at two
modules of 1GB DDR266 PC2100, and that's what I'm looking for.
Currently, I'm using two 128MB PC2100 modules. They're working just
fine, but with my last Linux update I'm seeing signs that it's getting
cramped in there.

I bought a PNY 2GB PC3200 kit from Newegg ($42.99, free shipping), but I
had problems with it. It was supposed to be compatible with PC2100, even
stated so on the package. It installed fine, and the BIOS recognized the
full 2GB from the start - as did Mandriva 2009.0. But, after a few
minutes things started crashing, until the whole system crashed.
Rebooted - same result. Re-installed the old RAM, and Mandriva was again
as rock-stable as ever. I don't know if the modules were incompatible,
or just defective, but I RMA'ed them as "incompatible," and shipped them
back to Newegg today.

I'm beginning to wonder if it's the high/low density thing that's the
problem. PNY's FAQ states that they only use high density chips these
days, and my board is supposed to use low density chips, I guess. But,
my reading indicates that the most usual density symptom is
non-recognition of all the memory - and my board saw it all.

Crucial lists a PC2700 module as compatible, and Newegg will sell a pair
of them for about the same as the PNY kit. However, a couple of the over
100 reviewers said they had problems similar to mine, and the Crucial
specs say "128M x 64," and at least one forum I visited (God knows where
- seems like I've been to hundreds) said that 128M anything is high
density and won't work on many older boards like mine. But over 100
customers had no problems, and they include other brands of boards as
old as mine. I might try it on the strength of Crucial's memory finder,
but Newegg already has ONE restocking fee out of me - I don't want to
shell out more.

My head's beginning to hurt, and aspirin isn't helping. Can anybody
clear some of this up?

TJ

Run memtest86+ from memtest.org on one stick at a time. Place a single
1GB stick, in the slot furthest from the processor. Then run memtest86+
for at least a couple passes. That will help you identify if just one
stick is bad. Then you can install both again and retest.

In a 1GB DDR module, (16) 64Mx8 is low density. (16) 128Mx4 chips is
high density. The (16) 64Mx8 configuration, consists of two ranks
of memory, one per side of the module. The other form, the (16) 128Mx4
chips, is a single rank which takes up both sides of the module.
(The x4 part, refers to the memory chip width, and that would be
a four bit wide chip. The x8 chips are eight bits wide. You
use enough chips, to build a 64 bit wide rank, and if there is
room left on the module, you can build a second rank.)

Intel chipset documentation, generally approves of the 64Mx8 kind,
but not the 128Mx4 kind. Thus, branded memory makers (PNY, Kingston,
Crucial etc), will try to make memory which works with all chipsets.
They don't have an incentive to make memory which is "half-compatible".

The 128Mx4 chip type of DIMM is typically found on Ebay. For branded
types of RAM, such as your PNY brand, they generally don't want to get
caught making the kind with the 128Mx4. In the Ebay adverts, they
sometimes call the product "Samsung", but they're referring to the
brand of the chip itself. The module maker is unnamed, to protect
the guilty.

Some motherboards have an adjustment for Vdimm. DDR normally takes
2.5V, but some motherboards allow adding voltage in 0.1V increments.
My previous motherboard used to run at 2.65V for example, and I
generally didn't have a problem with memory errors. (I tried downloading
both manuals for your motherboard, but there are no details about the
BIOS in the manual.)

http://www.biostar-usa.com/mbdownloa...7VIG%20PRO%20D

When buying memory, I like to read the reviews on Newegg before
buying. That allows me to detect poorly tested product. Or,
product that fails in a short period of time. You'd be surprised
how some branded products fall into those categories, and the
last time I was shopping for RAM, it took me two hours of
reading reviews, until I found a good compromise product.

What that means is, perhaps other people have had trouble with
that particular part number of memory module. So looking it
up on Newegg, may give you some idea what to expect.

The last DDR I bought was some OCZ. The last DDR2 was
Kingston. Previously, I've bought a lot of Crucial RAM.
But check the reviews, because anybody can have a bad day.
(I never thought I'd see Crucial have trouble shipping
good product, but it even happens to them.)

Paul

In article , TJ says...

My head's beginning to hurt, and aspirin isn't helping. Can anybody
clear some of this up?

Yes. Go to www.crucial.com. Enter the details and buy what they say. If
it doesn't work, send it back under their no quibble money back
guarantee.

Seriously, why does anyone still **** around when you've a company like
Crucial offering a "works or your money back" and lifetime guarantee?

--
Conor

"Some of you may be anxious about finding a new job,
or a new place to live. I know how you feel."
Pres. G.W.Bush hand over speech 11/2008.

Dave wrote:

Yeah, you don't need more than 256MB for linux. One of my systems runs
great with 256MB of RAM. Did I mention it runs XP Pro? If you think
you need more RAM, you probably need to adjust your linux swap partition.

I should have been more specific, I suppose. It's not Linux that's using
the RAM, it's the latest version of my preferred GUI, KDE 4 - and even
that is fine if I don't multitask. I have the option of using KDE 3.5,
which fits just fine on my bewhiskered machine, or one of several other,
less intensive GUIs, if I wanted to. I don't want to. Like with my new
President-Elect, it is what's going to be, like it or not, so I might
just as well give it a proper chance. If it doesn't work out, I'll try
something different. And BTW, my setup would run XP Pro, too - if I was
the kind of guy who wanted to use an OS that has to phone home for
permission to run.

Your machine, your choices. My machine, my choices. Let's leave it at that.

And it's foolish to buy a RAM upgrade for such an old system anyway. I've
seen biostar mainboards last longer than five years and still be rock-solid
stable. But I'd be shocked if you don't have some other component crap out
on you soon (video card?, power supply?). When that happens, you are going
to wish you hadn't bought more RAM for that system, as you will be starting
from scratch to rebuild.

I'll take that risk. Power supply was replaced a year and a half ago,
and I've only had the video card for about a year. I used on-board video
before that, and it was fine until I got the idea that I might want to
play videos on my 25-inch TV instead of my 19-inch monitor. So, I bought
a card with TV-out capability. Does a fine job, BTW.

If you INSIST on doing this though, a one-word answer is what you are
seeking. Kingston. You're welcome. -Dave


Thank you. I guess.

TJ

Paul wrote:


Run memtest86+ from memtest.org on one stick at a time. Place a single
1GB stick, in the slot furthest from the processor. Then run memtest86+
for at least a couple passes. That will help you identify if just one
stick is bad. Then you can install both again and retest.


In a 1GB DDR module, (16) 64Mx8 is low density. (16) 128Mx4 chips is
high density. The (16) 64Mx8 configuration, consists of two ranks
of memory, one per side of the module. The other form, the (16) 128Mx4
chips, is a single rank which takes up both sides of the module.
(The x4 part, refers to the memory chip width, and that would be
a four bit wide chip. The x8 chips are eight bits wide. You
use enough chips, to build a 64 bit wide rank, and if there is
room left on the module, you can build a second rank.)

There were 16 chips on each module, 8 per side.

Intel chipset documentation, generally approves of the 64Mx8 kind,
but not the 128Mx4 kind. Thus, branded memory makers (PNY, Kingston,
Crucial etc), will try to make memory which works with all chipsets.
They don't have an incentive to make memory which is "half-compatible".

The 128Mx4 chip type of DIMM is typically found on Ebay. For branded
types of RAM, such as your PNY brand, they generally don't want to get
caught making the kind with the 128Mx4. In the Ebay adverts, they
sometimes call the product "Samsung", but they're referring to the
brand of the chip itself. The module maker is unnamed, to protect
the guilty.


Interestingly enough, even though they were packaged as a matched set of
sticks, one had Samsung chips and the other, Hynix. That did give me
pause when I saw it, but I trusted PNY to use chips that were
functionally identical, whatever the brand. My bad, I suppose, but
sometimes trust is all you have to go on.

Some motherboards have an adjustment for Vdimm. DDR normally takes
2.5V, but some motherboards allow adding voltage in 0.1V increments.
My previous motherboard used to run at 2.65V for example, and I
generally didn't have a problem with memory errors. (I tried downloading
both manuals for your motherboard, but there are no details about the
BIOS in the manual.)

http://www.biostar-usa.com/mbdownloa...7VIG%20PRO%20D

My BIOS doesn't allow Vdimm to be changed. Here are the "DRAM" settings
I CAN change, and the possibilities. In each case, the first one listed
is the current setting, (not necessarily first on the list) and since
I've never changed them, the default.

Clock: By SPD 133MHz
Timing: By SPD Manual
Command Rate: 2T 1T

If Timing is set to "Manual" I also get the following:

CAS Latency: 2.5 2
Bank Interleave: Disabled 2 Bank 4 Bank
Precharge to active: 3T 2T
Active to Precharge: 6T 5T
Active to CMD: 3T 2T

I'm assuming the above settings were set with the "SPD," whatever that
is. They may have been different when the other RAM was installed.

Does that information help?

When buying memory, I like to read the reviews on Newegg before
buying. That allows me to detect poorly tested product. Or,
product that fails in a short period of time. You'd be surprised
how some branded products fall into those categories, and the
last time I was shopping for RAM, it took me two hours of
reading reviews, until I found a good compromise product.

What that means is, perhaps other people have had trouble with
that particular part number of memory module. So looking it
up on Newegg, may give you some idea what to expect.


Yes, I should have done that. Looking at the Newegg customer reviews
now, I find several more of them cite one or both PNY sticks as being
bad on arrival than with Crucial. More reading indicates the symptoms I
see are more consistent with bad RAM than with incompatible. Oh, well -
live and learn. In either case, returning them was the thing to do. I
did explain what happened when applying for the RMA.

The last DDR I bought was some OCZ. The last DDR2 was
Kingston. Previously, I've bought a lot of Crucial RAM.
But check the reviews, because anybody can have a bad day.
(I never thought I'd see Crucial have trouble shipping
good product, but it even happens to them.)

Paul

TJ

TJ wrote:
Paul wrote:


What that means is, perhaps other people have had trouble with
that particular part number of memory module. So looking it
up on Newegg, may give you some idea what to expect.


Yes, I should have done that. Looking at the Newegg customer reviews
now, I find several more of them cite one or both PNY sticks as being
bad on arrival than with Crucial. More reading indicates the symptoms I
see are more consistent with bad RAM than with incompatible. Oh, well -
live and learn. In either case, returning them was the thing to do. I
did explain what happened when applying for the RMA.

Another interesting development... When I ordered the PNY RAM a week
ago, I was given a 30-day-refund/90-day-replacement return policy. I
chose the refund. Now, I see that that RAM carries a
30-day-nonrefundable return policy. In fact, ALL the DDR modules I
glanced at carry a replacement-only policy, including the Crucial
modules. That means if I order the Crucial sticks, at about $10 less
each than Crucial charges, they would be replaced if bad by Newegg with
no restocking fee. Crucial, of course should replace them if needed
after that period, no matter where I bought them. And, going by the
customer reviews, Crucial is the better choice. BTW, I originally chose
PNY because Newegg offered them at an excellent price with free
shipping. The Crucial modules at that time cost more and carried a
shipping charge, IIRC.

Guess I lucked out, after all.

TJ

On Nov 9, 2:10*am, TJ wrote:
The more I Google, the more confused I get.

I'm trying to upgrade the RAM on a five-year-old Biostar M7VIG Pro-D
motherboard with an Athlon XP 1900+ processor. Specs say it maxes at two
modules of 1GB DDR266 PC2100, and that's what I'm looking for.
Currently, I'm using two 128MB PC2100 modules. They're working just
fine, but with my last Linux update I'm seeing signs that it's getting
cramped in there.

I bought a PNY 2GB PC3200 kit from Newegg ($42.99, free shipping), but I
had problems with it. It was supposed to be compatible with PC2100, even
stated so on the package. It installed fine, and the BIOS recognized the
full 2GB from the start - as did Mandriva 2009.0. But, after a few
minutes things started crashing, until the whole system crashed.
Rebooted - same result. Re-installed the old RAM, and Mandriva was again
as rock-stable as ever. I don't know if the modules were incompatible,
or just defective, but I RMA'ed them as "incompatible," and shipped them
back to Newegg today.

I'm beginning to wonder if it's the high/low density thing that's the
problem. PNY's FAQ states that they only use high density chips these
days, and my board is supposed to use low density chips, I guess. But,
my reading indicates that the most usual density symptom is
non-recognition of all the memory - and my board saw it all.

Crucial lists a PC2700 module as compatible, and Newegg will sell a pair
of them for about the same as the PNY kit. However, a couple of the over
100 reviewers said they had problems similar to mine, and the Crucial
specs say "128M x 64," and at least one forum I visited (God knows where
- seems like I've been to hundreds) said that 128M anything is high
density and won't work on many older boards like mine. But over 100
customers had no problems, and they include other brands of boards as
old as mine. I might try it on the strength of Crucial's memory finder,
but Newegg already has ONE restocking fee out of me - I don't want to
shell out more.

My head's beginning to hurt, and aspirin isn't helping. Can anybody
clear some of this up?

TJ


Your mobo recognised all the ram, so there was no density problem.

RAM errors are due to bad ram sticks or wrong cas latency setting.
Test one stick at a time using memtest86. If you get ram errors,
incrase the latency figure until its stable. If it doesnt stabilise,
you've got bad ram and its time to return it.

Re buying yet again, the faster the speed of the ram
a) generally the cheaper it is
b) the less likely to have latency timing problems you are at your
lower speed


NT

In article , TJ
writes

Clock: By SPD 133MHz
Timing: By SPD Manual
Command Rate: 2T 1T

Stick with "SPD". This is particularly important if filling more than
one slot. The Manual setting is for overclockers.

Get Crucial memory as recommended for your board by their site.

When you fit the memory, don't allow the machine to boot into the OS.
Boot from your Linux install CD and see if it has an option to run
Memtest. If so, do that, otherwise obtain and burn a CD from
www.memtest org.

Let the test run for a while, preferably overnight, and if it passes you
can be reasonably confident the memory is ok.

--
(\__/) Bunny says NO to Windows Vista!
(='.'=) http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...ista_cost.html
(")_(") http://www.cypherpunks.to/~peter/vista.pdf