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OK..bit of a lengthy reply and purely my own view on this. Others may have
opposing viewpoints but this based on being in the corporate world. I would suggest something that I have not seen posted yet. Consider something like a Dell, IBM, etc. (I hear the sighs already) since service and support would be high on your companies list. If the system goes down and it is a local or self built system, they may not be too happy if you cannot get proper support. And in that context also consider an extended warranty. Corporations are big on not having to pay for service for the longest possible time. I would not push your companies "generous" nature myself. If an employee doing a similar job as yourself can do a very nice job with a system costing a couple of grand less, you may raise an eyebrow or two with overkill. That said go for lots of RAM since video work is a priority. Also as fast a processor as is available. I lean toward Intel but to each his/her own. Grab one of the very newest video cards by ATI or NVIDIA with 256 MB of RAM or more again with video work being a priority. A SATA hard drive and as large a capacity as is available since video files can really chew up space. Also a decent monitor at least 19" and possibly 21 or so. Needless to say if it whips through serious video work like a charm, it should run gaming software without a hitch. Check around and see what others in the company are using and ask a lot of quotations from your computer supplier of choice to be sure that the system will live up to it's intended use. Also see if your company deals with a particular manufacturer. This may mean a discount and you can get an even more powerful system or upgrades as opposed to hunting down a system on your own. Regards, John O. "Brad" wrote in message news:N9DWc.204051$gE.103129@pd7tw3no... What are you doing with this system? 6000 is a nice gaming rig, but you aren't going to get anything astronomical for that price. Im doing a fair amount of video work and compiling from my office in my home ( in the home hence to why i want to add onto it to make it an excellent gamer system). The computer is to be paid by the company as a business expense, and Im able to acquire whatever system I feel is necessary. Any overkill is just a nice extra bonus seeing that it wont cost me anything. Fastest 64 bit AMD, good motherboard with whatever hookups you want on it, a case, a cooling solution (water or whatever), 2 gigs of ram, a few Western Digital 10000 rpm raptor drives, a few 250-300 gig backup drives, 16x dual layer dvd burner, whichever vidcard you are attached to (uber6800 or uberx800... both of which have dual outputs you can run monitors from), an audigy 2 if you hate onboard audio, a set of digital speakers (logitech or klipsch), an ati or pinnacle capture card for your cable, and a few LCD monitors... Those would actually break your budget. But that's what a normal 6000 system looks like. |
#34
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Brad wrote:
http://mentalhelp.net/ Bradley, I suggest you take your own advice. Oh and some remedial English classes whilst you're at it, as you don't appear to know the difference between 'you're' and 'your' 'it's and its'.Let me explain in words a retarded 13-year-old such as yourself might understand. Let's start with 'you're and 'your' and take the latter first. 'Your' is a possessive adjective - 'your hat' 'your coat' 'your attitude' or it can be used to indicate direction 'mine is the third house on your right'. You're, on the other hand, is a contraction (that's what the apostrophe - that little curly thing - indicates. a missing letter, in this instance an 'a'. So when you said to Onideus "you figure your someone special..." it makes no sense, what you should have said was "you figure /you're/ someone special..." OK, now let's move on to 'its' and 'it's' shall we? 'Its' (no apostrophe) is possessive 'the dog eats its dinner'. With an apostrophe, it's a contraction for 'it is' - if you write ' the dog eats it's dinner' what you're really saying is 'the dog eats it is dinner' which makes no sense whatsoever. In fact, you appear to need a new keyboard, as yours doesn't appear to have an apostrophe - if it does, you don't use it. 'words' like I'm (a contraction of I am) don't (do not) won't (will not) and they're (they are) require apostrophes. If you don't use an apostrophe in 'won't' it changes the meaning entirely - 'wont' (no apostrophe) means 'apt, accustomed to'. Your lack of knowledge of your native tongue makes you look an even bigger moron that you already are. -- My great-grandfather was born and raised in Elgin - did he eventually lose his marbles? |
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#36
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Hey Brad -
I sympathize with you. It sucks when you post an innocent question asking for information and your question really does make sense and you are not asking for anything crazy or stupid and some people feel the need to attack you. You mentioned a budget of $6,000. In my opinion, that is a nice, large budget to build a powerful PC. The system I laid out for you would not break that budget and I doubt many of us here have a machine worth even $4,000. I'm going to re-post the specs I recommend, with slight changes, since I see you do video editing: DUAL processor solution HIGHLY recommended. Believe it or not, going from a dual 1800 to a single FX-51, I'm finding sometimes my dual 1800 was faster and that is because I often have something running while I'm trying to work. If you are doing video editing and related activities, you really should go dual. Why Opteron instead of Zeon? Please go out there on Google and find benchmarks and you will see very good reasons. ~ $1350 - Opteron 248's oem price = $675 each (if you get a larger budget go for the Dual Opteron 250's - newegg $895 * 2 = ~ $1800) ~$554 - Motherboard Must be a dual socket 940 board, of course. Your budget is large. Get the mack daddy. I see the board I've been using is still in the running if you look at Motherboards-Server at newegg. It only runs $220. I am VERY happy with this board even though I'm only using one of the CPU slots. I plan on trading my FX-51 plus some moolah for an Opteron 250 and buying another Opteron to build something like your dream machine. It looks like Tyan has a high-end 940-pin board on newegg called the Tyan Thunder K8SR running $554. It even supports RAID 10 (striping & mirroring) on the board for SATA drives. Dual channel gigabyte LAN. If you go SCSI you'll need to get a SCSI RAID card and hey with $6,000 budget you can probably afford that! The Tyan even has one of those new PCI-E slots which will come in handy for your shiny new Nvidia 6800 Ultra OC! ~$354 - Two 250 gig SATA drives mirrored so you data safety. Hitachi makes a nice & fast 250 gig SATA drive with a fast for this group seek time of 8.5 ms. Nice price, too, at NewEgg @ $177 each right now. Increase to RAID 10 (mirroring AND striping) if you get more money freed up. Means 4 drives instead. JUST ADDED EVERYTHING UP AND SEEING SCSI IS TOO EXPENSIVE FOR YOUR BUDGET ~$2160 AND I would go ahead and get four SCSI drives, striped and mirrored (RAID 10 again). Seagate seems to be the king right now over at NewEgg for these drives. I'm looking at the 73 gig 15,000 RPM drives with seek of 3.6 ms (drool)! Because they are so small, you'll need your SATA drives. If you are needing to save a bit of money, reduce your SATA array above to two drives and just mirror and use your SATA array for the slower stuff. Put what you want to access fast on the SCSI array. ~$629 for Adaptec's 64-bit PCI to SCSI RAID controller card: I see the 2200S is the best one over at NewEgg. ~$1600 (2 x 2 gig sticks @ $765 each) FOUR gig (video editing means you never can have too much RAM! I would recommend 8 gig here but only if you have more money. Get fast dual channel ECC/registered (ECC/registered needed for dual boards) DDR2 400 (PC3200) RAM your motherboard supports. Corsair makes some good RAM and so does Mushkin and others. ~$500 - BFG's 6800 Ultra OC - someone here said the XT800 is faster or something. They are mostly wrong. The XT800 is not much more than a souped up ATi 9800; The 6800 line is new technology and much more advanced. I won't go into details but you can research this and find your truth. Most modern cards will support two monitors simultaneously. ~$190 - Lian Li PC-70 case. Get whichever one you want. I just recommend this brand for cases. Research and see why. They rock. Depending on how many drives you end up wanting to go with, choose your case. ~$88 - Antec true 480 (or if you get rich: I see I-Star makes a 500w x 500w "Real Dual AC Mini Redundant Power Supply.) ~ $154 - DVD/CD burner: Plextor 12x Didn't put little things like CD drive, keyboard, and mouse. Assuming you may have already. And if you need to, your DVD drive can double as a CD reader. Not sure if you said you needed monitors or have them already. Assuming you want to get monitors so I did some tweaking of the above stuff, as you can see, to get the price lower. Got it all down to $4,790 so you would have some left for monitors. IF you already have monitors or you have a larger budget, I recommend changing out the following items in this priority: (a) move up from opteron 248's to 250's. I would not skimp on that motherboard, btw. (b) power supply (c) two more SATA drives (d) more RAM (e) SCSI I heard someone mention going with Dell or IBM or some other name brand to build it for you. I don't recommend that route. You'll pay more that way for less. Those *are* great companies but I doubt you can get the perfect combination of components if you go that route. I recommend going with a local computer shop or building it yourself. At least with a local computer shop you may be able to bring them the parts you ordered and ask them to assemble and "burn in" the system. Good luck with your purchase. Sincerely, Scotter |
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Jesus Christ! Are you and Mad Hatter in bed with each other or something?
Lay off the dude for god sakes. Does it make you feel good to team up and badger someone with pompous rhetoric designed solely to instigate? The purpose of posting a response to Brad's questions should be to provide technical information on the subject. Instead you have both provided nothing but reasons to be added to the good old kill-file. What a waste of space you both are. Tony |
#38
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Brad wrote:
My suggestion is don't get a PC, get a server. ...huh? How would a "server" NOT be a PC? Well I suppose if you setup a Mac as a server... PC is 'Personal Computer'. A server is typically meant to be used by many and not 'personal' usage. Sometimes the terminology can cause a bit of misunderstanding Server can be defined by use and by architecture, but generally speaking a machine which is providing a service to multiple users or client-machines is a "server" regardless of the architecture. You can set up a Mac as a server or an RS/6000, or a Sparc, or an iSeries or a zSeries or one of the older architectures such as AS/400, S/390, Alpha, or VAX, or a PC, or an Intel-based box purpose-made as a server. There's a notion that a server is somehow more "heavy-duty" than a desktop machine, but that isn't always so. For the stated requirements, "get a server" is not good advice in any case--"get a workstation" would be better. If you look at the specs on purpose-made servers you'll find that they typically have built-in video with no AGP slot for openers--for a server high-performance video is a waste, so the resources that would be devoted to the AGP slot are instead diverted to 64-bit or 66 MHz or PCI-X (not PCI Express) slots. That means that using "the best video gaming card" is out. Further, some servers are pretty wimpy machines--they're made to fit a space and provide a minimum level of performance necessary for a task--look at the 1U rack-optimized servers for example--while some of them have fast processors and can take a large amount of RAM the expansion capabilities without adding an external case are very limited. While the trend is changing, for most of the history of the Intel-based machines an Intel-based server was considered to be a "PC". IBM even sold them as "PC Servers". With the complexity of machines increasing (a loaded PC can have as many transistors as the human brain has neurons) and allowing higher degrees of optimization, the architectural distinction between a PC and a server is becoming more significant, but generally speaking until you get into the 4- or more processor machines a server is for most practical purposes a PC and can be used as such, subject to the limitations imposed by its optimizations. For high performance graphics use the type of machine generally chosen is called a "workstation" and there are purpose-made workstation boards made--if you go over to the Intel site you'll see some examples of purpose-made server and workstation boards and can get an idea of the features to expect on either. For an example from the AMD world, compare a Tyan Thunder K8S Pro with a Thunder K8W. -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#39
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Thanks Scotter, I had not expected such detail. Im liking the dual Opteron idea. Hadn't expected them to be $900 each...I guess that means i may not be able to go quad opteron's but you never know. heh I definately agree on going all out for a motherboard. I saw a review site and the one i looked at that supports the Opteron's has 2 agp slots. That could open up some new perspective in my options. Aside from not being as up to speed on the current best video card, I think I would concur with everything youve recommended. If going with the scsi drives goes over $6000, I may add them in anyways... but that will probably be considered when the final bill is totaled up. I think the only think left if to see what type of monitors I'll be wanting. I shall print this list and go to the distributors and see whats in stock. Thanks again Hey Brad - I sympathize with you. It sucks when you post an innocent question asking for information and your question really does make sense and you are not asking for anything crazy or stupid and some people feel the need to attack you. You mentioned a budget of $6,000. In my opinion, that is a nice, large budget to build a powerful PC. The system I laid out for you would not break that budget and I doubt many of us here have a machine worth even $4,000. I'm going to re-post the specs I recommend, with slight changes, since I see you do video editing: DUAL processor solution HIGHLY recommended. Believe it or not, going from a dual 1800 to a single FX-51, I'm finding sometimes my dual 1800 was faster and that is because I often have something running while I'm trying to work. If you are doing video editing and related activities, you really should go dual. Why Opteron instead of Zeon? Please go out there on Google and find benchmarks and you will see very good reasons. ~ $1350 - Opteron 248's oem price = $675 each (if you get a larger budget go for the Dual Opteron 250's - newegg $895 * 2 = ~ $1800) ~$554 - Motherboard Must be a dual socket 940 board, of course. Your budget is large. Get the mack daddy. I see the board I've been using is still in the running if you look at Motherboards-Server at newegg. It only runs $220. I am VERY happy with this board even though I'm only using one of the CPU slots. I plan on trading my FX-51 plus some moolah for an Opteron 250 and buying another Opteron to build something like your dream machine. It looks like Tyan has a high-end 940-pin board on newegg called the Tyan Thunder K8SR running $554. It even supports RAID 10 (striping & mirroring) on the board for SATA drives. Dual channel gigabyte LAN. If you go SCSI you'll need to get a SCSI RAID card and hey with $6,000 budget you can probably afford that! The Tyan even has one of those new PCI-E slots which will come in handy for your shiny new Nvidia 6800 Ultra OC! ~$354 - Two 250 gig SATA drives mirrored so you data safety. Hitachi makes a nice & fast 250 gig SATA drive with a fast for this group seek time of 8.5 ms. Nice price, too, at NewEgg @ $177 each right now. Increase to RAID 10 (mirroring AND striping) if you get more money freed up. Means 4 drives instead. JUST ADDED EVERYTHING UP AND SEEING SCSI IS TOO EXPENSIVE FOR YOUR BUDGET ~$2160 AND I would go ahead and get four SCSI drives, striped and mirrored (RAID 10 again). Seagate seems to be the king right now over at NewEgg for these drives. I'm looking at the 73 gig 15,000 RPM drives with seek of 3.6 ms (drool)! Because they are so small, you'll need your SATA drives. If you are needing to save a bit of money, reduce your SATA array above to two drives and just mirror and use your SATA array for the slower stuff. Put what you want to access fast on the SCSI array. ~$629 for Adaptec's 64-bit PCI to SCSI RAID controller card: I see the 2200S is the best one over at NewEgg. ~$1600 (2 x 2 gig sticks @ $765 each) FOUR gig (video editing means you never can have too much RAM! I would recommend 8 gig here but only if you have more money. Get fast dual channel ECC/registered (ECC/registered needed for dual boards) DDR2 400 (PC3200) RAM your motherboard supports. Corsair makes some good RAM and so does Mushkin and others. ~$500 - BFG's 6800 Ultra OC - someone here said the XT800 is faster or something. They are mostly wrong. The XT800 is not much more than a souped up ATi 9800; The 6800 line is new technology and much more advanced. I won't go into details but you can research this and find your truth. Most modern cards will support two monitors simultaneously. ~$190 - Lian Li PC-70 case. Get whichever one you want. I just recommend this brand for cases. Research and see why. They rock. Depending on how many drives you end up wanting to go with, choose your case. ~$88 - Antec true 480 (or if you get rich: I see I-Star makes a 500w x 500w "Real Dual AC Mini Redundant Power Supply.) ~ $154 - DVD/CD burner: Plextor 12x Didn't put little things like CD drive, keyboard, and mouse. Assuming you may have already. And if you need to, your DVD drive can double as a CD reader. Not sure if you said you needed monitors or have them already. Assuming you want to get monitors so I did some tweaking of the above stuff, as you can see, to get the price lower. Got it all down to $4,790 so you would have some left for monitors. IF you already have monitors or you have a larger budget, I recommend changing out the following items in this priority: (a) move up from opteron 248's to 250's. I would not skimp on that motherboard, btw. (b) power supply (c) two more SATA drives (d) more RAM (e) SCSI I heard someone mention going with Dell or IBM or some other name brand to build it for you. I don't recommend that route. You'll pay more that way for less. Those *are* great companies but I doubt you can get the perfect combination of components if you go that route. I recommend going with a local computer shop or building it yourself. At least with a local computer shop you may be able to bring them the parts you ordered and ask them to assemble and "burn in" the system. Good luck with your purchase. Sincerely, Scotter |
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Hey Brad -
I'm very very pleased to hear you got some use from my suggestions! By the way, for your situation I don't think you would notice much (if any) difference between dual and quad Opterons and while I guess you can find a motherboard to support quad Opterons, I don't know where they are or how much they cost. If you have extra money to burn, I'd put it into SCSI drives and RAM. Video is sooo large and the difference between keeping part of a file on the hard drive or in memory is a huge speed difference. Oh and dual AGP I don't see as being useful at all for your purposes. Especially since AGP seems to be phasing out in favor of that new PC-X or PC-express - research that, please. I know the motherboard I recommended has one of those slots but not sure if it is the same one that the new crop of vid cards support. Good luck! I envy you in a good way, heh! "Brad" wrote in message newsPIWc.205534$J06.95851@pd7tw2no... Thanks Scotter, I had not expected such detail. Im liking the dual Opteron idea. Hadn't expected them to be $900 each...I guess that means i may not be able to go quad opteron's but you never know. heh I definately agree on going all out for a motherboard. I saw a review site and the one i looked at that supports the Opteron's has 2 agp slots. That could open up some new perspective in my options. Aside from not being as up to speed on the current best video card, I think I would concur with everything youve recommended. If going with the scsi drives goes over $6000, I may add them in anyways... but that will probably be considered when the final bill is totaled up. I think the only think left if to see what type of monitors I'll be wanting. I shall print this list and go to the distributors and see whats in stock. Thanks again Hey Brad - I sympathize with you. It sucks when you post an innocent question asking for information and your question really does make sense and you are not asking for anything crazy or stupid and some people feel the need to attack you. You mentioned a budget of $6,000. In my opinion, that is a nice, large budget to build a powerful PC. The system I laid out for you would not break that budget and I doubt many of us here have a machine worth even $4,000. I'm going to re-post the specs I recommend, with slight changes, since I see you do video editing: DUAL processor solution HIGHLY recommended. Believe it or not, going from a dual 1800 to a single FX-51, I'm finding sometimes my dual 1800 was faster and that is because I often have something running while I'm trying to work. If you are doing video editing and related activities, you really should go dual. Why Opteron instead of Zeon? Please go out there on Google and find benchmarks and you will see very good reasons. ~ $1350 - Opteron 248's oem price = $675 each (if you get a larger budget go for the Dual Opteron 250's - newegg $895 * 2 = ~ $1800) ~$554 - Motherboard Must be a dual socket 940 board, of course. Your budget is large. Get the mack daddy. I see the board I've been using is still in the running if you look at Motherboards-Server at newegg. It only runs $220. I am VERY happy with this board even though I'm only using one of the CPU slots. I plan on trading my FX-51 plus some moolah for an Opteron 250 and buying another Opteron to build something like your dream machine. It looks like Tyan has a high-end 940-pin board on newegg called the Tyan Thunder K8SR running $554. It even supports RAID 10 (striping & mirroring) on the board for SATA drives. Dual channel gigabyte LAN. If you go SCSI you'll need to get a SCSI RAID card and hey with $6,000 budget you can probably afford that! The Tyan even has one of those new PCI-E slots which will come in handy for your shiny new Nvidia 6800 Ultra OC! ~$354 - Two 250 gig SATA drives mirrored so you data safety. Hitachi makes a nice & fast 250 gig SATA drive with a fast for this group seek time of 8.5 ms. Nice price, too, at NewEgg @ $177 each right now. Increase to RAID 10 (mirroring AND striping) if you get more money freed up. Means 4 drives instead. JUST ADDED EVERYTHING UP AND SEEING SCSI IS TOO EXPENSIVE FOR YOUR BUDGET ~$2160 AND I would go ahead and get four SCSI drives, striped and mirrored (RAID 10 again). Seagate seems to be the king right now over at NewEgg for these drives. I'm looking at the 73 gig 15,000 RPM drives with seek of 3.6 ms (drool)! Because they are so small, you'll need your SATA drives. If you are needing to save a bit of money, reduce your SATA array above to two drives and just mirror and use your SATA array for the slower stuff. Put what you want to access fast on the SCSI array. ~$629 for Adaptec's 64-bit PCI to SCSI RAID controller card: I see the 2200S is the best one over at NewEgg. ~$1600 (2 x 2 gig sticks @ $765 each) FOUR gig (video editing means you never can have too much RAM! I would recommend 8 gig here but only if you have more money. Get fast dual channel ECC/registered (ECC/registered needed for dual boards) DDR2 400 (PC3200) RAM your motherboard supports. Corsair makes some good RAM and so does Mushkin and others. ~$500 - BFG's 6800 Ultra OC - someone here said the XT800 is faster or something. They are mostly wrong. The XT800 is not much more than a souped up ATi 9800; The 6800 line is new technology and much more advanced. I won't go into details but you can research this and find your truth. Most modern cards will support two monitors simultaneously. ~$190 - Lian Li PC-70 case. Get whichever one you want. I just recommend this brand for cases. Research and see why. They rock. Depending on how many drives you end up wanting to go with, choose your case. ~$88 - Antec true 480 (or if you get rich: I see I-Star makes a 500w x 500w "Real Dual AC Mini Redundant Power Supply.) ~ $154 - DVD/CD burner: Plextor 12x Didn't put little things like CD drive, keyboard, and mouse. Assuming you may have already. And if you need to, your DVD drive can double as a CD reader. Not sure if you said you needed monitors or have them already. Assuming you want to get monitors so I did some tweaking of the above stuff, as you can see, to get the price lower. Got it all down to $4,790 so you would have some left for monitors. IF you already have monitors or you have a larger budget, I recommend changing out the following items in this priority: (a) move up from opteron 248's to 250's. I would not skimp on that motherboard, btw. (b) power supply (c) two more SATA drives (d) more RAM (e) SCSI I heard someone mention going with Dell or IBM or some other name brand to build it for you. I don't recommend that route. You'll pay more that way for less. Those *are* great companies but I doubt you can get the perfect combination of components if you go that route. I recommend going with a local computer shop or building it yourself. At least with a local computer shop you may be able to bring them the parts you ordered and ask them to assemble and "burn in" the system. Good luck with your purchase. Sincerely, Scotter |
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