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#11
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Now let's fix the USB card!
VanguardLH wrote:
VanguardLH wrote: pheasant16 wrote: Having to physically reinsert the card into the slot to get it found is not working out. However there isn't a dust bunny to be found in the computer any longer. why not go into Device Manager (devmgmt.msc) and disable then reenable the USB card? Windows XP SP3. 2 empty PCI slots. MSI NF980-G65 motherboard Put the card in a slot, boot machine, asks for driver. Put enclosed CD in, run setup finds card, shows up in device manager and the USB3 card works perfectly. Windows XP does not have included support for USB3. That's why the driver is required. If the driver is not loading properly upon boot of Windows XP, maybe you should check if there is a firmware update for the PCI USB3 card. Alternatively, you can define a batch (.bat) file that enables and enables a device. Get devcon.exe from Microsoft (it's the non-GUI version of Device Manager) and use it to disable that device and then enable it. Put the .bat file in your Startup group or add as a scheduled event in Task Scheduler to run on login. OK. Look in device manager and no USB3 card to be found. Put hd back on old usb port, it's back. The card is not listed as a controller or root hub at all? Then I'd check for a firmware update. For example, StarTech has the PCI (not PCI-e but PCI) USB3 card and there is a firmware update for it. You never mentioned whose USB3 PCI card you have. Opened up box, put card in same slot, went through above, works perfectly until next cold boot. You should not be plugging in daughtercards while there is power to the slot. Slot cards are not hot-pluggable devices. Could fry them. Defective slot? Let's try the other slot. Same behavior. Works great until power down and cold boot next morning. Your BIOS isn't recognizing the card and why the driver is needed. Seems the problem is the driver isn't getting loaded when Windows loads. Also cleaned the registry after each uninstall of the driver to be sure it was reinstalling cleanly. Reminds me of a 5 year old at a birthday party. Open present, play for a couple minutes then move on and forget about it. Some PCI USB3 cards (e.g., the StarTech example) have a jumper to change the bus frequency between 33 and 66 Mhz. 66 Mhz should only be used if the slot is a PCI-X slot (has 2 keys in the slot so the card must have 2 slots to accommodate the keys in the slot). The StarTech card comes pre-configured with the jumper on which means the card uses 33MHz. Only if plugged into a 66 MHz slot should the card's jumper be removed (or hung from a single pin for storage) to auto-negotiate up to 66 MHz. No idea what motherboard you have (not mentioned) to know if it has only PCI slots or PCI-X slots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI-X Even if your mobo has no PCI-X slots, check the BIOS does not have a 66 MHz bus speed setting and it is configured for that. Non-PCI-X cards would also have problems if they were given 66 Mhz clock but you didn't mention if there are any other PCI cards in your mobo. When I first got a BIOS with the 66 MHz setting, I figured to use it to make the cards operate faster. Nope, the cards weren't fast enough. Had to use the standard 33 Mhz bus clock speed. Since no idea what mobo you have, it is possible it could have PCI 1.0, PCI 2.0, or PCI 2.1 slots. Specs on the mobo will tell you which type of PCI slots it has. You need PCI 2.1 to have 66 Mhz support. Details are needed: - Brand and model of motherboard. - Brand and model of PCI USB3 card. With that info, you should be able to tell if the card should use a 33 or 66 Mhz clock. If the card doesn't have a jumper or auto-negotiate clock speed then it should be only a 33 Mhz card and the BIOS shouldn't be forcing a 66 Mhz clock. Oops, missed you said "MSI NF980-G65 motherboard". http://s.kaskus.id/images/2014/04/22...0422025909.JPG Don't see any PCI-X (or PCI-64) slots on that mobo. Just PCI (just one key in slot). So check the BIOS for bus clock setting and check if there is a jumper on the USB3 card for bus speed. The first and third slots are PCIe-1 slots. Bought at Best Buy Insignia is brand. Will open the case and reinsert the card so it is found on boot, then try to update the driver. I seem to remember the driver was written in 2012 when looking in device manager once before when it was recognized. Why does it find it when inserted the first time in the motherboard, but once the driver is loaded it won't find on subsequent cold boot? Will also look for a jumper for the clock speed. Referring to the picture you sent, there is a USB card in the E2 slot, not sure if it's v 1 or 2, was put in when I put the box together maybe 7-9 years ago. Think the board was USB2 for onboard slots. |
#12
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Now let's fix the USB card!
The help that posters are given at least in part corresponds
to the clearness of their request for help. Yes, I would call it an "expansion card" or an "add-in card". Just typing a bunch of words does not mean others will understand what you have to say. And No, the term "card" is not self-explanatory. Otherwise an SD card would be thought of as something plugged into an expansion slot on the motherboard. -- pheasant16 kiavan02 yahoo.com wrote: Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: pheasant16 kiavan02 yahoo.com Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt Subject: Now let's fix the USB card! Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 06:51:13 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 20 Message-ID: ojdasc$sgb$1 dont-email.me References: ojao9p$bk8$1 dont-email.me ojbf8g$m5u$1 dont-email.me Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2017 11:47:25 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: mx02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="dba53745331bef2aa03834f20bf2c5c3"; logging-data="29195"; mail-complaints-to="abuse eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/Y3fbS+YMvL++A1PhnUiIJ7e1xP1MFAl8=" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) In-Reply-To: ojbf8g$m5u$1 dont-email.me Cancel-Lock: sha1:cjSkvATI4o/kBRtw8S8fEY1WtiU= Xref: news.eternal-september.org alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:36283 John Doe wrote: pheasant16 kiavan02 yahoo.com wrote: Having to physically reinsert the card into the slot to get it found is not working out. However there isn't a dust bunny to be found in the computer any longer. Windows XP SP3. 2 empty PCI slots. MSI NF980-G65 motherboard You go on and on talking about a "USB card". You need to define what that is. Probably a USB flash drive or thumb drive, but it could be other things. ??? What do you call expansion cards daughtercards that are inserted into the motherboard? Thought the term card was self explanatory. Flash and thumb drives are inserted into the slots on the card. Sorry if my vernacular isn't up to your standards. Now that that's clear how about some help? |
#13
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Now let's fix the USB card!
pheasant16 wrote:
VanguardLH wrote: Paul wrote: The thing is, the PCI Express USB3 cards run faster in a Rev.2 slot. The OP said he used a PCI slot for the card, not a PCI-e slot. Will have to wait for clarification from the OP. I know of one PCI (not PCI-e) USB3 card. There might be other PCI USB3 cards but I know of the one from StarTech. Users of that card have complained about the card not found on boot. StarTech came out with a firmware update to help but they're still working with Gigabyte for a resolution (apparently a BIOS problem on the Gigabyte mobos). The OP never mentioned what USB3 card he has (brand and model) to be sure if it uses a PCI or PCI-e slot. That mobo has both PCI and PCI-e slots. Only know, so far, the OP said "PCI", not "PCI-e". https://www.cnet.com/products/msi-nf...-series/specs/ Even if the OP has a PCI-e card, that mobo doesn't have version 2.1 PCI-e slots, just 2.0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Ex...CI_Express_2.1 "However, the speed is the same as PCI Express 2.0." So how would a 2.1 PCI-e slot be faster than a 2.0 PCI-e slot? It's a PCI express slot. Bought the card at Best Buy, it's an Insignia It probably has a Renesas chip on it. The driver should work on that (with Win7 it needs the manufacturer to provide a driver, while later OSes the driver would be provided by Microsoft). I can find reports though, of the driver installer screwing up. I have a Renesas here, in this machine, and didn't have a problem with it. Your chipset looks like this. The MSI motherboard manual admits to the MCP82 and the NF200. Since I couldn't find a nice 980a chipset diagram, I just went for the individual components and made a diagram from that. I've ignored the GPU inside the MCP82, as it's "mostly irrelevant" and the GPU only works in Hybrid SLI (meaning it must be paired with a cheap NVidia video card, that sort of idea). http://assets.vr-zone.net/6755/MCP82_2.gif DDR3 slots ------ CPU (c.f. Phenom II AM3) | GbE ----- | Hypertransport \ | +----------- MCP82 ----- NF200 ------- x16 PCI Express Rev2 | | x16 ------- x8 PCI Express Rev2 PCI | ------- x8 PCI Express Rev2 (3) x1 Rev2 PCI Express It's a 35 lane setup, with a lot less actual bandwidth feeding those lanes (which doesn't matter). Anyway, one message to take away from that diagram, is all the lanes are Revision 2. You can still try moving the USB3 card to a video card slot, and try your luck there. If the driver was throwing errors, and you had error numbers, there might be more to work on. http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/...gravation.html Paul |
#14
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Now let's fix the USB card!
pheasant16 wrote:
The first and third slots are PCIe-1 slots. Bought at Best Buy Insignia is brand. Insiginia (and Dynex) are Best Buy brands. They contract with Taiwanese manufacturers to produce under those brand names. Which card did you get? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia...?skuId=5621006 That one uses a PCI-e x1 slot. From the pic, there are 2 of those on the mobo. Alas, often the video card overlaps one of them making it useless. This card has a power connector (the type used for floppy drive power) so you can connect power to the card. That allows high-power support at the external USB3 ports. There are no jumpers on this card because it is a PCI-e card (not PCI). Will open the case and reinsert the card so it is found on boot, then try to update the driver. I seem to remember the driver was written in 2012 when looking in device manager once before when it was recognized. When powered down and you remove and reinsert the card, do not cinch down the card with the retaining screw. Make sure the card is full seated along the entire edge of the connector edge and power up without the card screwed down. I've seen where the card blank is offset so the card gets lifted out of the slot when you screw down the card. You have to bend the blank, if that works, so screwing it down doesn't lift the card partially out of the slot. Also make sure the tang of the card (the bottom end) is sliding into an opening in the case. If not, the card won't fully seat. https://www.insigniaproducts.com/pdp...621006#support According to the manual there, page 7, the card should show up in Device Manager as "Renesas Electronics USB 3.0 Host Controller" and "Renesas Electronics USB 3.0 Root Hub". Windows 7 doesn't have support for USB3 and why you have to install drivers for USB3 cards. Have you yet tried booting Windows into its safe mode to make sure there aren't startup programs interferring with the card's driver and its detection of the USB3 card? Why does it find it when inserted the first time in the motherboard, but once the driver is loaded it won't find on subsequent cold boot? Could be a power-on reset problem. When the computer is cold booted, the CPU issues a reset signal to all devices. This ensures they start up in a known state. If the device ignores or misses the reset, its state is unknown on power up. That's why I mention looking for a firmware update to see if there is one. Will also look for a jumper for the clock speed. Won't be one on a PCI-e card. You said PCI in your starter post and that type of card might have a clock select jumper. Referring to the picture you sent, there is a USB card in the E2 slot, not sure if it's v 1 or 2, was put in when I put the box together maybe 7-9 years ago. Think the board was USB2 for onboard slots. https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/NF980G65.html The specifications for that motherboard say that it comes with USB2 controllers. That is, there are four onboard USB2 headers and that is to where the USB2 ports on the case should be going. I thought USB header provided for 2 USB ports but their specs say these 4 USB2 headers on the mobo will support 6 USB2 ports (instead of 8). From the image at http://www.frontx.com/cpx108_2p3.gif, USB1 is for one USB port and USB2 is for the other USB port. If the card in the E2 slot has connectors on its card blank, you should be able to determine what type of card it is. It's possible the onboard USB controller(s) went bad or someone wanted more than the 8 USB2 ports (2 rear + 6 max per spec from mobo headers). That's what happened to me. There were 4 rear USB2 ports and 4 front USB ports but I wanted more so I added a PCI USB2 card to give me 4 more USB2 ports. This mobo is so old that it has an onboard IDE port. From what I've read about the StarTech USB3 PCI (not PCI-e) card, it has problems with old BIOSes. Could be your mobo is just too old to support a USB3 card. |
#15
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Now let's fix the USB card!
VanguardLH wrote:
pheasant16 wrote: The first and third slots are PCIe-1 slots. Bought at Best Buy Insignia is brand. Insiginia (and Dynex) are Best Buy brands. They contract with Taiwanese manufacturers to produce under those brand names. Which card did you get? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia...?skuId=5621006 That one uses a PCI-e x1 slot. From the pic, there are 2 of those on the mobo. Alas, often the video card overlaps one of them making it useless. This card has a power connector (the type used for floppy drive power) so you can connect power to the card. That allows high-power support at the external USB3 ports. There are no jumpers on this card because it is a PCI-e card (not PCI). Will open the case and reinsert the card so it is found on boot, then try to update the driver. I seem to remember the driver was written in 2012 when looking in device manager once before when it was recognized. When powered down and you remove and reinsert the card, do not cinch down the card with the retaining screw. Make sure the card is full seated along the entire edge of the connector edge and power up without the card screwed down. I've seen where the card blank is offset so the card gets lifted out of the slot when you screw down the card. You have to bend the blank, if that works, so screwing it down doesn't lift the card partially out of the slot. Also make sure the tang of the card (the bottom end) is sliding into an opening in the case. If not, the card won't fully seat. https://www.insigniaproducts.com/pdp...621006#support According to the manual there, page 7, the card should show up in Device Manager as "Renesas Electronics USB 3.0 Host Controller" and "Renesas Electronics USB 3.0 Root Hub". Windows 7 doesn't have support for USB3 and why you have to install drivers for USB3 cards. Have you yet tried booting Windows into its safe mode to make sure there aren't startup programs interferring with the card's driver and its detection of the USB3 card? Why does it find it when inserted the first time in the motherboard, but once the driver is loaded it won't find on subsequent cold boot? Could be a power-on reset problem. When the computer is cold booted, the CPU issues a reset signal to all devices. This ensures they start up in a known state. If the device ignores or misses the reset, its state is unknown on power up. That's why I mention looking for a firmware update to see if there is one. Will also look for a jumper for the clock speed. Won't be one on a PCI-e card. You said PCI in your starter post and that type of card might have a clock select jumper. Referring to the picture you sent, there is a USB card in the E2 slot, not sure if it's v 1 or 2, was put in when I put the box together maybe 7-9 years ago. Think the board was USB2 for onboard slots. https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/NF980G65.html The specifications for that motherboard say that it comes with USB2 controllers. That is, there are four onboard USB2 headers and that is to where the USB2 ports on the case should be going. I thought USB header provided for 2 USB ports but their specs say these 4 USB2 headers on the mobo will support 6 USB2 ports (instead of 8). From the image at http://www.frontx.com/cpx108_2p3.gif, USB1 is for one USB port and USB2 is for the other USB port. If the card in the E2 slot has connectors on its card blank, you should be able to determine what type of card it is. It's possible the onboard USB controller(s) went bad or someone wanted more than the 8 USB2 ports (2 rear + 6 max per spec from mobo headers). That's what happened to me. There were 4 rear USB2 ports and 4 front USB ports but I wanted more so I added a PCI USB2 card to give me 4 more USB2 ports. This mobo is so old that it has an onboard IDE port. From what I've read about the StarTech USB3 PCI (not PCI-e) card, it has problems with old BIOSes. Could be your mobo is just too old to support a USB3 card. I think your last statement about sums it up. LOL!! It's up and running now, shows up in device manager as renesas root hub and controller just as you mentioned above. Searched for an updated driver. The version now is 3.0.x.x. All the ones I find in the internet are 2.0.x.x. There is a v 4 that states is specific for intel board on Intel's website. The link on Insignia's website seems to be garbage. Not readable when I save it and tell the update to look at it. - https://files.bbystatic.com/BySrGBcn...SbOcojow%3D%3D Paul had an idea to try some of the video card slots, but think I'll just use a USB hub and forget about trying to get the v3 speeds. I will exchange the card just to see if it could be the card. Thanks for your efforts. Haven't had this much fun since the box I put together before this one when you still had to hunt for correct drivers. Let see... believe that was a Pentium II. Have a wonderful 4th. Mark |
#16
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Now let's fix the USB card!
Paul wrote:
pheasant16 wrote: VanguardLH wrote: Paul wrote: The thing is, the PCI Express USB3 cards run faster in a Rev.2 slot. The OP said he used a PCI slot for the card, not a PCI-e slot. Will have to wait for clarification from the OP. I know of one PCI (not PCI-e) USB3 card. There might be other PCI USB3 cards but I know of the one from StarTech. Users of that card have complained about the card not found on boot. StarTech came out with a firmware update to help but they're still working with Gigabyte for a resolution (apparently a BIOS problem on the Gigabyte mobos). The OP never mentioned what USB3 card he has (brand and model) to be sure if it uses a PCI or PCI-e slot. That mobo has both PCI and PCI-e slots. Only know, so far, the OP said "PCI", not "PCI-e". https://www.cnet.com/products/msi-nf...-series/specs/ Even if the OP has a PCI-e card, that mobo doesn't have version 2.1 PCI-e slots, just 2.0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Ex...CI_Express_2.1 "However, the speed is the same as PCI Express 2.0." So how would a 2.1 PCI-e slot be faster than a 2.0 PCI-e slot? It's a PCI express slot. Bought the card at Best Buy, it's an Insignia It probably has a Renesas chip on it. The driver should work on that (with Win7 it needs the manufacturer to provide a driver, while later OSes the driver would be provided by Microsoft). I can find reports though, of the driver installer screwing up. I have a Renesas here, in this machine, and didn't have a problem with it. Your chipset looks like this. The MSI motherboard manual admits to the MCP82 and the NF200. Since I couldn't find a nice 980a chipset diagram, I just went for the individual components and made a diagram from that. I've ignored the GPU inside the MCP82, as it's "mostly irrelevant" and the GPU only works in Hybrid SLI (meaning it must be paired with a cheap NVidia video card, that sort of idea). http://assets.vr-zone.net/6755/MCP82_2.gif DDR3 slots ------ CPU (c.f. Phenom II AM3) | GbE ----- | Hypertransport \ | +----------- MCP82 ----- NF200 ------- x16 PCI Express Rev2 | | x16 ------- x8 PCI Express Rev2 PCI | ------- x8 PCI Express Rev2 (3) x1 Rev2 PCI Express It's a 35 lane setup, with a lot less actual bandwidth feeding those lanes (which doesn't matter). Anyway, one message to take away from that diagram, is all the lanes are Revision 2. You can still try moving the USB3 card to a video card slot, and try your luck there. If the driver was throwing errors, and you had error numbers, there might be more to work on. http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/...gravation.html Paul No error messages Paul. When first inserted it finds the driver and works perfectly until power turned off. When turned on it's just not there any longer. I think I'm going to just return the card to see if that could be the issue. If not, like I mentioned below, will just use a USB hub and forget about trying to get the v3 speed. I'm old... time to learn patience. Thank you. You are truly an asset to this forum. |
#17
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Now let's fix the USB card!
pheasant16 wrote:
VanguardLH wrote: Could be your mobo is just too old to support a USB3 card. I think your last statement about sums it up. LOL!! That's why I've passed on getting a PCI (not PCI-e) USB3 card in my old box. It's a salvaged old Acer (Intel Core 2 Quad, 8GB RAM): had to replace a defective PSU, defective video card, defective HDD, and use software to compensate for the BIOS not controlling the CPU fan speed. Its BIOS is old and has very few user-configurable settings (it's a dummy's BIOS). I suspect the StarTech PCI USB3 card will exhibit the same problems other users have reported (even with the firmware update to the card, if not already applied): no detection of the card on cold boot. I'm not going to try with my old BIOS. Your mobo has IDE headers on the mobo so it's likely an even older or as-old BIOS for you. When I went to Newegg to look at reviews on your mobo, they went back to 2009. That's the same age for my old Acer mobo (well, for the whole box). Acer stopped providing BIOS updates many years ago. With a circa 2009 mobo, it's likely MSI doesn't have BIOS updates for as long. From what I saw at MSI's site, the last BIOS update is dated back to 2010. Paul had an idea to try some of the video card slots, but think I'll just use a USB hub and forget about trying to get the v3 speeds. Would be something of a waste of a good full-length PCI-e x16 slot to use the PCI-e x1 card. I will exchange the card just to see if it could be the card. A defective card is a possibility. |
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