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#11
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old computer acting odd
Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:36:49 -0400, "Bill Cunningham" wrote: "Paul" wrote in message news Bill Cunningham wrote: ... The monitor cable to the back of the tower both have screws on each end to screw into the pins. Bill Maybe the Motherboard battery has run down; get a new one, and clean the terminals too. But he can "hear things loading", so it's finished POST. Just no video. If the video were broken bad enough, the BIOS would have beep codes. That means, as far as the BIOS is concerned, the system is drawing pictures on the screen. Just the path between video output and screen isn't working. If the monitor tests good on something else, it means a video output problem. Paul |
#12
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old computer acting odd
"Paul" wrote in message news Peter Jason wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:36:49 -0400, "Bill Cunningham" wrote: "Paul" wrote in message But he can "hear things loading", so it's finished POST. Just no video. If the video were broken bad enough, the BIOS would have beep codes. That means, as far as the BIOS is concerned, the system is drawing pictures on the screen. Just the path between video output and screen isn't working. If the monitor tests good on something else, it means a video output problem. maybe the term "fuzzy" should be "shaky" or shaking letters. Then it might boot and be ok. Or the screen goes blank and stays that way. The Dell monitor power light flashes when the computer isn't sending a signal to the monitor. Bill |
#13
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old computer acting odd
Bill Cunningham wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message news Peter Jason wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:36:49 -0400, "Bill Cunningham" wrote: "Paul" wrote in message But he can "hear things loading", so it's finished POST. Just no video. If the video were broken bad enough, the BIOS would have beep codes. That means, as far as the BIOS is concerned, the system is drawing pictures on the screen. Just the path between video output and screen isn't working. If the monitor tests good on something else, it means a video output problem. maybe the term "fuzzy" should be "shaky" or shaking letters. Then it might boot and be ok. Or the screen goes blank and stays that way. The Dell monitor power light flashes when the computer isn't sending a signal to the monitor. Bill You're going to need to insert a cheap video card in there to fix it. Since it's WinXP, an older card will be OK. But since you like to use x64 OS, the driver availability will be a question at this date. You might need to get into the BIOS and select "AGP first" if you can buy and fit an AGP card. Or "PCI first", if you buy and fit a PCI video card (I have one of those here, for testing). Your onboard video will need to remain running, until you can change that setting. Back in that era, I was using FX5200 cards. Or today, up until recently, I could get 6200 cards as "native cards". If the machine had a x16 PCI express slot, you'd be laughing, and then there's a ton of $40 cards to choose from. Otherwise, the pickings can be pretty thin. It's a pretty late date to be shopping for a 15 year old machine for a new video card. I would be trying my "surplus" guy, who buys hardware on consignment. He doesn't have a catalog, and he "runs upstairs" and finds stuff. And you have no way of knowing what he'll come down the stairs with. While places like Newegg used to have stock, the manufacturers will eventually run out of old chips. Although it's amazing how long they've been able to make ATI 7000 cards. You're going to need to identify the video slot type, before you can shop for a card. Even if you recycle a card from some other broken computer, you'll still need to make sure it fits. (With the power off of course.) Don't insert a card while +5VSB is still running. FX5200 AGP ~$50 (ships from Asia) https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA85V6DP5103 Full height 6200 AGP at a ridiculous price https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIACUE5JD4151 HD3450 ATI for a PCI slot (and they *still* have some 7000 cards and they're not a lot cheaper!). https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIADYY6BJ2908 That stuff should all have WinXP era drivers. Paul |
#14
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old computer acting odd
"Paul" wrote in message news Bill Cunningham wrote: "Paul" wrote in message news Peter Jason wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:36:49 -0400, "Bill Cunningham" wrote: "Paul" wrote in message But he can "hear things loading", so it's finished POST. Just no video. If the video were broken bad enough, the BIOS would have beep codes. That means, as far as the BIOS is concerned, the system is drawing pictures on the screen. Just the path between video output and screen isn't working. If the monitor tests good on something else, it means a video output problem. maybe the term "fuzzy" should be "shaky" or shaking letters. Then it might boot and be ok. Or the screen goes blank and stays that way. The Dell monitor power light flashes when the computer isn't sending a signal to the monitor. Bill You're going to need to insert a cheap video card in there to fix it. Since it's WinXP, an older card will be OK. But since you like to use x64 OS, the driver availability will be a question at this date. You might need to get into the BIOS and select "AGP first" if you can buy and fit an AGP card. Or "PCI first", if you buy and fit a PCI video card (I have one of those here, for testing). Your onboard video will need to remain running, until you can change that setting. Back in that era, I was using FX5200 cards. Or today, up until recently, I could get 6200 cards as "native cards". If the machine had a x16 PCI express slot, you'd be laughing, and then there's a ton of $40 cards to choose from. Otherwise, the pickings can be pretty thin. It's a pretty late date to be shopping for a 15 year old machine for a new video card. I would be trying my "surplus" guy, who buys hardware on consignment. He doesn't have a catalog, and he "runs upstairs" and finds stuff. And you have no way of knowing what he'll come down the stairs with. While places like Newegg used to have stock, the manufacturers will eventually run out of old chips. Although it's amazing how long they've been able to make ATI 7000 cards. You're going to need to identify the video slot type, before you can shop for a card. Even if you recycle a card from some other broken computer, you'll still need to make sure it fits. (With the power off of course.) Don't insert a card while +5VSB is still running. FX5200 AGP ~$50 (ships from Asia) https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA85V6DP5103 Full height 6200 AGP at a ridiculous price https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIACUE5JD4151 HD3450 ATI for a PCI slot (and they *still* have some 7000 cards and they're not a lot cheaper!). https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIADYY6BJ2908 That stuff should all have WinXP era drivers. What do you think of this Paul? It's more in my price range. https://www.outletpc.com/ez6786.html IDK about XP drivers. Bill |
#15
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old computer acting odd
Bill Cunningham wrote:
What do you think of this Paul? It's more in my price range. https://www.outletpc.com/ez6786.html IDK about XP drivers. Bill The edge connector is PCI Express, a different standard than PCI or AGP. PCI Express are definitely cheaper, and there are a lot more to choose from. But you're not going to find that in a year 2000 computer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express "Year created 2004; 13 years ago" Before going shopping, you have to review the slots available on the motherboard. The make and model of the PC would be a start. If you built the computer yourself from parts, then the make and model of the motherboard would be good to know. There are a few motherboards made by PCChips, that have no useful markings whatsoever on them. The rest can have an identifier in the silk screen. For example, my first PC motherboard was an Asus P2B-S, as part of a homebuild around year 2000. And it had PCI and AGP slots, but no PCI Express. I couldn't put that card above in it. I could also stick an ATI 9800 Pro in it, but the stupid motherboard would beep and there would be no video. That was caused by a lack of slot power. There is "selection lore" with each socket standard, so the faster you identify what you need, the faster we can narrow the field. The FX5200 for example, is a good universal AGP donor. The 6200 on AGP would be a close second, at this late date. They're not the nicest cards (super-fast gaming), but they're likely to work. This is a great page for AGP. It's only missing a tiny bit of selection lore (for cards you're not likely to find for sale new now anyway). http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html PCI Express has selection rules too, but I'm not aware of any nice summary pages, for the few years worth of stuff that caused problems. PCI Express is supposed to auto-negotiate (like most hardware), but some combos, the "faster" cards refused to gear down to the "slower" slot speed. It's the same with SATA hard drives. A VIA 8237 Southbridge can do SATA I, but if you connect a SATA II or SATA III drive, they won't work. If you set the jumper on the SATA II drive, to Force150, it works with an 8237. However, most of the drives today are SATA III, and the jumper on those only sets the drive to SATA II, which won't work with the SATA I Southbridge ports that don't negotiate properly. So the PCI Express slot issue is similar to one of those issues. Except video cards don't have a jumper like that. AGP and PCI can have voltage issues. And if you put your mind to it, say find an SIS305 in the junk bin at your surplus store, you could blow out the AGP slot on your motherboard. My P4B Rev.105 motherboard, was one of the first equipped with a magic shutoff circuit, just to prevent the SIS305 mis-keyed AGP cards from blowing up the slot :-) At the time, I found the warning, and I made the guy at my computer store take the motherboard out of the box and verify it was revision 1.05. It's highly unlikely you could find one of those "bad" video cards today, and that's an example of "selection lore". Paul |
#16
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old computer acting odd
"Paul" wrote in message news Bill Cunningham wrote: What do you think of this Paul? It's more in my price range. https://www.outletpc.com/ez6786.html IDK about XP drivers. Bill The edge connector is PCI Express, a different standard than PCI or AGP. PCI Express are definitely cheaper, and there are a lot more to choose from. But you're not going to find that in a year 2000 computer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express "Year created 2004; 13 years ago" Before going shopping, you have to review the slots available on the motherboard. The make and model of the PC would be a start. If you built the computer yourself from parts, then the make and model of the motherboard would be good to know. There are a few motherboards made by PCChips, that have no useful markings whatsoever on them. The rest can have an identifier in the silk screen. For example, my first PC motherboard was an Asus P2B-S, as part of a homebuild around year 2000. And it had PCI and AGP slots, but no PCI Express. I couldn't put that card above in it. I could also stick an ATI 9800 Pro in it, but the stupid motherboard would beep and there would be no video. That was caused by a lack of slot power. There is "selection lore" with each socket standard, so the faster you identify what you need, the faster we can narrow the field. The FX5200 for example, is a good universal AGP donor. The 6200 on AGP would be a close second, at this late date. They're not the nicest cards (super-fast gaming), but they're likely to work. This is a great page for AGP. It's only missing a tiny bit of selection lore (for cards you're not likely to find for sale new now anyway). http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html PCI Express has selection rules too, but I'm not aware of any nice summary pages, for the few years worth of stuff that caused problems. PCI Express is supposed to auto-negotiate (like most hardware), but some combos, the "faster" cards refused to gear down to the "slower" slot speed. It's the same with SATA hard drives. A VIA 8237 Southbridge can do SATA I, but if you connect a SATA II or SATA III drive, they won't work. If you set the jumper on the SATA II drive, to Force150, it works with an 8237. However, most of the drives today are SATA III, and the jumper on those only sets the drive to SATA II, which won't work with the SATA I Southbridge ports that don't negotiate properly. So the PCI Express slot issue is similar to one of those issues. Except video cards don't have a jumper like that. AGP and PCI can have voltage issues. And if you put your mind to it, say find an SIS305 in the junk bin at your surplus store, you could blow out the AGP slot on your motherboard. My P4B Rev.105 motherboard, was one of the first equipped with a magic shutoff circuit, just to prevent the SIS305 mis-keyed AGP cards from blowing up the slot :-) At the time, I found the warning, and I made the guy at my computer store take the motherboard out of the box and verify it was revision 1.05. It's highly unlikely you could find one of those "bad" video cards today, and that's an example of "selection lore". OK wel lthe chip I have on the board is ATI Xpress 200 or something like that. I can't get at it. IDK it's speed and can't remember the mobo number. But I can get it. Do you think I have enough here to get someone to get he right thing. This mobo and video doesn't have it's own memory either. It comes from the DDRAM1. Bill |
#17
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old computer acting odd
Bill Cunningham wrote:
OK wel lthe chip I have on the board is ATI Xpress 200 or something like that. I can't get at it. IDK it's speed and can't remember the mobo number. But I can get it. Do you think I have enough here to get someone to get he right thing. This mobo and video doesn't have it's own memory either. It comes from the DDRAM1. Bill The Wikipedia article says Xpress 200 has PCI Express lanes. There are versions for Intel and AMD. The Intel version might have a quad pumped FSB. The version for AMD might use HyperTransport. That's the connection between the CPU and the Northbridge. The integrated graphics are inside the Northbridge. It's quite possible the Northbridge also hosts the PCI Express lanes (the x16 for the video slot). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xpress_200 CPU --- RAM | Northbridge --- PCI Express x16 | SB400 ??? | SATA You still want to verify by looking inside the computer, that there is an x16 slot present, and your 8400GS candidate will fit. https://www.outletpc.com/ez6786.html The BIOS may have an entry for "setting the PCI Express slot first". That might be used to help the BIOS, on the next POST, to use the new video card for display purposes. But setting these old motherboards up, requires that the built-in GPU remain healthy. There have been some posters, that yes, they got the video card working, but if the CMOS battery ever dies, they could lose their settings... And without a working internal GPU, cannot get to the BIOS screen and re-set the PCI Express for display purposes. And that means they're dead in the water, if the BIOS ever loses the settings. Even switching off the power in mid-session, could risk that happening. On the better designed BIOS codes, they sense a PCI Express video is present, turn off the integrated graphics, and the user doesn't have to do a thing. On the older designs, things weren't always that clever. Nobody really thought about what happens if the internal GPU blows up (no BIOS screen to correct any settings). So I have run into a poster, who got a black screen from both the integrated VGA connector, as well as his video card, and there wasn't anything that could be done. Adding a different video card wouldn't help. If he could have seen the screen, he might have fixed it. ******* Even if you can find some pictures of the inside of your branded PC, maybe you can figure out what slots are present. For example, on older generation stuff than yours, there used to be solder pads for an AGP connector, and the cheap *******s wouldn't solder a connector into it. So even if a Wikipedia article "said the chipset had AGP", the socket for it could be missing! It pays to have a look, before you buy something. When you go to install it, you're going to have to open the case :-) Paul |
#18
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old computer acting odd
"Paul" wrote in message news Bill Cunningham wrote: 00:00.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RS480/RS482/RS485 Host Bridge 00:01.0 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RC4xx/RS4xx PCI Bridge [int gfx] 00:11.0 IDE interface: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB400 Serial ATA Controller 00:12.0 IDE interface: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB4x0 Serial ATA Controller 00:13.0 USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB4x0 USB Host Controller 00:13.1 USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB4x0 USB Host Controller 00:13.2 USB controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB4x0 USB2 Host Controller 00:14.0 SMBus: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB4x0 SMBus Controller (rev 04) 00:14.1 IDE interface: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB4x0 IDE Controller 00:14.3 ISA bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB4x0 PCI-ISA Bridge 00:14.4 PCI bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB4x0 PCI-PCI Bridge 00:14.5 Multimedia audio controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] IXP SB400 AC'97 Audio Controller 00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] HyperTransport Technology Configuration 00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address Map 00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM Controller 00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Control 01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RS480 [Radeon Xpress 200 Series] 02:00.0 Multimedia controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Theater 550 PRO PCI [ATI TV Wonder 550] 02:01.0 Communication controller: Conexant Systems, Inc. HSF 56k Data/Fax Modem 02:03.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8100/8101L/8139 PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter (rev 10) 02:04.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6306/7/8 [Fire II(M)] IEEE 1394 OHCI Controller (rev 80) This is what linux's lspci command printed. I am pretty sure there is a "south" bridge driver I have to install. do have an AMD. Maybe this answers the question. If I have to order online I want to be able to know I am getting something I will not have to ship back. Bill |
#19
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old computer acting odd
"Bill Cunningham" wrote in message news "Paul" wrote in message news Bill Cunningham wrote: I'm pretty sure my BIOS will pick it up. As for CMOS battery, if that went IDK what all I'd lose. Bill |
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