Make external drive sleep when PC sleeps

I would like the opposite of what an earlier OP wants. I'd like my
external drive to sleep when the computer sleeps, I guess mostly so
the drive won't wear out. Is this now standard with external drives
or should the advertising mention it if it's true?

When I bought an external drive for a friend, most of them didn't say
one way or the other.

Micky wrote:
I would like the opposite of what an earlier OP wants. I'd like my
external drive to sleep when the computer sleeps, I guess mostly so
the drive won't wear out. Is this now standard with external drives
or should the advertising mention it if it's true?

When I bought an external drive for a friend, most of them didn't say
one way or the other.

Do external drives come with documentation ?

There isn't a logical reason why an OS would
fail to attempt to send a power-state change
to the drive. It's remotely possible (and
has definitely happened before), where
*something* can be written to a USB device,
that even prevents it from being detected on
the next power up. But I doubt there is any
fear by the OS designers, of something like
that happening.

Another possibility is it is implemented as
an "option" the user has to "turn on". Which
again, would be stupid, but not beyond belief.

If I were in a testing mood, and I have a brand
new USB drive (with activity LED on the outside),
I would do a sleep test cycle on a WinXP computer.
And see whether the LED goes off, and you cannot
hear or feel evidence it is still spinning. Then,
I would not be surprised, after you "Safely Removed"
it while WinXP was running, and moved it to a
Windows 7 machine, the LED didn't go off. I don't
keep records of this stuff, but my vague recollection
is the best behavior is on WinXP. I would start
by testing there, to get a feeling for whether the
enclosure/drive pair has such a capability. More than
that, I don't really know where to look for that
sort of state information.

And you can't expect ETW to log stuff like that
so close to shutdown. Sending a spindown to the USB
drive, might happen just a fraction of a second
before the same command is sent to C: .

Every volume should receive some sort of cache
flush, before sleep. And other means to minimize
open or outstanding writes. But whether an actual
power state change is sent, who can say.

And I wouldn't want to experiment with the
Device Manager setting, either. There might be
an "allow the computer to power off this device"
kind of setting, but then it could be spinning down
the drive during the session. Instead of spinning
it down only at OS sleep/hibernate time. In terms of
the knobs I'd be willing to twist, I wouldn't try
twisting all of them, because of potential side effects.

*******

There's a post here, with some appropriate terminology.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r262...d-to-spin-down

The author of that post, shows

Power Management
Advanced Power Management

The APM one, controls idle behavior. Say the OS detects
some idle timeout has occurred, and wishes to do power
management. The drive can be programmed to maintain
RPMs (7200) when in Idle state, or can be programmed
to reduce spin rate when in Idle state. (Bit 6 and Bit 7
of the APM byte.) On modern drives, it would be safer
to park the heads if doing the latter, to reduce the
risk of a sudden poweroff not leaving enough inertial
energy for the emergency shutdown sequence.

But that's not the same as the Power Management one.
The Power Management one sounds like the one you want.

The issue, the thing I cannot answer, is what does
the USB controller chip inside the enclosure do with
a received command from the OS ? Some commands are
considered "in-band" and are just given to the drive
without comment. Whereas others, there is no logical
path for the command. For example, maybe an attempt
to TRIM a USB drive, the TRIM command stops at the
USB controller and doesn't make it to the drive.
That's where I'm uncertain as to what to expect.

If you can get it working on WinXP, then it suggests
some sort of recipe might be available. Proving the
hardware is capable, with minimal effort, is half
the problem. The other half... dunno.

Paul

On 5/31/2016 3:03 PM, Micky wrote:
I would like the opposite of what an earlier OP wants. I'd like my
external drive to sleep when the computer sleeps, I guess mostly so
the drive won't wear out. Is this now standard with external drives
or should the advertising mention it if it's true?

When I bought an external drive for a friend, most of them didn't say
one way or the other.

Control PanelPower OptionsChange Plan SettingsChange Advanced
Power SettingUSB SettingsUSB Selective Suspend Settings

Control PanelDevice ManagerUSB Root HubPropertiesPower
Management

--
“The true method of knowledge is experiment.” — William Blake

[Default] On Tue, 31 May 2016 17:36:38 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general "." wrote:

On 5/31/2016 3:03 PM, Micky wrote:
I would like the opposite of what an earlier OP wants. I'd like my
external drive to sleep when the computer sleeps, I guess mostly so
the drive won't wear out. Is this now standard with external drives
or should the advertising mention it if it's true?

When I bought an external drive for a friend, most of them didn't say
one way or the other.

Control PanelPower OptionsChange Plan SettingsChange Advanced
Power SettingUSB SettingsUSB Selective Suspend Settings

Thanks.
So I gather enabled is almost always better than disabled.

http://www.groovypost.com/howto/usb-...ows-explained/

Control PanelDevice ManagerUSB Root HubPropertiesPower
Management

I have different things plugged in at different times. Do you suppose
it will keep the power management setting for the proper thing when
it's plugged in.

[Default] On Tue, 31 May 2016 17:37:28 -0400, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general Paul wrote:

Micky wrote:
I would like the opposite of what an earlier OP wants. I'd like my
external drive to sleep when the computer sleeps, I guess mostly so
the drive won't wear out. Is this now standard with external drives
or should the advertising mention it if it's true?

When I bought an external drive for a friend, most of them didn't say
one way or the other.

Do external drives come with documentation ?

What I meant was that when I was shopping for one online, most of them
didn't say in their blurb. In fact iirc, only one said it did, and
after I ordered it, I came across a webpage that said it wouldn't work
with his particular version of MacOS. I had to send it back. (I
eventually lent him a dock and an external drive, and he bought Mac
backup software, we ran it, set up a schedule, and I didn't understand
Macs but I thought everything was working, but when he lost his email,
he found that he had no backup at all. And he never got his email
back. Then he died only a year later, at age 78, so it didn't make
much difference.

There isn't a logical reason why an OS would
fail to attempt to send a power-state change
to the drive. It's remotely possible (and
has definitely happened before), where
*something* can be written to a USB device,
that even prevents it from being detected on
the next power up. But I doubt there is any
fear by the OS designers, of something like
that happening.

Another possibility is it is implemented as
an "option" the user has to "turn on". Which
again, would be stupid, but not beyond belief.

If I were in a testing mood, and I have a brand
new USB drive (with activity LED on the outside),
I would do a sleep test cycle on a WinXP computer.
And see whether the LED goes off, and you cannot
hear or feel evidence it is still spinning. Then,
I would not be surprised, after you "Safely Removed"
it while WinXP was running, and moved it to a
Windows 7 machine, the LED didn't go off. I don't
keep records of this stuff, but my vague recollection
is the best behavior is on WinXP. I would start
by testing there, to get a feeling for whether the
enclosure/drive pair has such a capability. More than
that, I don't really know where to look for that
sort of state information.

And you can't expect ETW to log stuff like that
so close to shutdown. Sending a spindown to the USB
drive, might happen just a fraction of a second
before the same command is sent to C: .

Every volume should receive some sort of cache
flush, before sleep. And other means to minimize
open or outstanding writes. But whether an actual
power state change is sent, who can say.

And I wouldn't want to experiment with the
Device Manager setting, either. There might be
an "allow the computer to power off this device"
kind of setting, but then it could be spinning down
the drive during the session. Instead of spinning
it down only at OS sleep/hibernate time. In terms of
the knobs I'd be willing to twist, I wouldn't try
twisting all of them, because of potential side effects.

Noted. Thanks.

*******

There's a post here, with some appropriate terminology.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r262...d-to-spin-down

The author of that post, shows

Power Management
Advanced Power Management

The APM one, controls idle behavior. Say the OS detects
some idle timeout has occurred, and wishes to do power
management. The drive can be programmed to maintain
RPMs (7200) when in Idle state, or can be programmed
to reduce spin rate when in Idle state. (Bit 6 and Bit 7
of the APM byte.) On modern drives, it would be safer
to park the heads if doing the latter, to reduce the
risk of a sudden poweroff not leaving enough inertial
energy for the emergency shutdown sequence.

But that's not the same as the Power Management one.
The Power Management one sounds like the one you want.

The issue, the thing I cannot answer, is what does
the USB controller chip inside the enclosure do with
a received command from the OS ? Some commands are
considered "in-band" and are just given to the drive
without comment. Whereas others, there is no logical
path for the command. For example, maybe an attempt
to TRIM a USB drive, the TRIM command stops at the
USB controller and doesn't make it to the drive.
That's where I'm uncertain as to what to expect.

If you can get it working on WinXP, then it suggests
some sort of recipe might be available. Proving the
hardware is capable, with minimal effort, is half
the problem. The other half... dunno.

Paul

Micky wrote:
[Default] On Tue, 31 May 2016 17:37:28 -0400, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general Paul wrote:

Micky wrote:
I would like the opposite of what an earlier OP wants. I'd like my
external drive to sleep when the computer sleeps, I guess mostly so
the drive won't wear out. Is this now standard with external drives
or should the advertising mention it if it's true?

When I bought an external drive for a friend, most of them didn't say
one way or the other.
Do external drives come with documentation ?

What I meant was that when I was shopping for one online, most of them
didn't say in their blurb. In fact iirc, only one said it did, and
after I ordered it, I came across a webpage that said it wouldn't work
with his particular version of MacOS. I had to send it back. (I
eventually lent him a dock and an external drive, and he bought Mac
backup software, we ran it, set up a schedule, and I didn't understand
Macs but I thought everything was working, but when he lost his email,
he found that he had no backup at all. And he never got his email
back. Then he died only a year later, at age 78, so it didn't make
much difference.

Using the other poster's suggestion of Selective Suspend,
I found a table.

"USB Selective Suspend"

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...(v=vs.85).aspx

-- -- Single Interface USB Device

Win7 Can use WDM Power IRP
Vista Can use WDM Power IRP
WinXP Must use idle request IRP

Now, my results suggested that my disk (3.5", self powered
from an AC adapter) did the right thing on WinXP and not on
the others.

It's the "can" and "must" that strikes my eye.

What determines if a WDM Power IRP is sent
to the drive by the Microsoft USB driver ?
As the Microsoft USB driver would handle
USB external hard drives.

*******

After reading this one, I tried a test series for Win7.

"USB Device Power States"
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...(v=vs.85).aspx

Sleep - light goes off, drive spins down.
Shutdown - light goes off, drive spins down.
Safely Remove - Stays fully powered, light on, drive spinning.

I tried both with a USB mouse and without one.

My test machine has two mice. It has a serial port mouse
(no scroll wheel, Logitech three button mouse). The serial
port mouse has no power management that I could find. And
by using that mouse, I don't absolutely need to have anything
plugged into USB.

The Test Machine also has a Microsoft USB Mouse (couldn't
find any other brands at the store when I needed a new one).
The keyboard is a PS/2. So I can test with no other USB
devices except the USB external disk drive, by unplugging
the USB mouse. And the presence or absence of another
USB device on the tree, seems to make no difference to
the results.

The external USB enclosure in this case, uses an
Asmedia 2105.

I seem to remember some test case though, where
the drive stayed running after a shutdown (i.e.
behaved like the Safely Remove case). The reason
I was annoyed, is I couldn't figure out a way to
get the drive to spin down, so I wouldn't get
an "emergency shutdown" logged by the hard
drive SMART table. I have a drive acquired in the
last couple of months, that records whether you've
shut off power while it's still spinning.

Paul

On 6/1/2016 12:16 AM, Micky wrote:
[Default] On Tue, 31 May 2016 17:36:38 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general "." wrote:

On 5/31/2016 3:03 PM, Micky wrote:
I would like the opposite of what an earlier OP wants. I'd like my
external drive to sleep when the computer sleeps, I guess mostly so
the drive won't wear out. Is this now standard with external drives
or should the advertising mention it if it's true?

When I bought an external drive for a friend, most of them didn't say
one way or the other.

Control PanelPower OptionsChange Plan SettingsChange Advanced
Power SettingUSB SettingsUSB Selective Suspend Settings

Thanks.
So I gather enabled is almost always better than disabled.

http://www.groovypost.com/howto/usb-...ows-explained/

Control PanelDevice ManagerUSB Root HubPropertiesPower
Management

I have different things plugged in at different times. Do you suppose
it will keep the power management setting for the proper thing when
it's plugged in.

I'd suppose, but I always do testing to confirm.
Btw, the second path, above, should have read:
Control PanelDevice ManagerUniversal Serial Bus Controller
USB Root HubPropertiesPower Management

[Default] On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 10:43:07 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general "." wrote:

On 6/1/2016 12:16 AM, Micky wrote:
[Default] On Tue, 31 May 2016 17:36:38 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general "." wrote:

On 5/31/2016 3:03 PM, Micky wrote:
I would like the opposite of what an earlier OP wants. I'd like my
external drive to sleep when the computer sleeps, I guess mostly so
the drive won't wear out. Is this now standard with external drives
or should the advertising mention it if it's true?

When I bought an external drive for a friend, most of them didn't say
one way or the other.

Control PanelPower OptionsChange Plan SettingsChange Advanced
Power SettingUSB SettingsUSB Selective Suspend Settings

Thanks.
So I gather enabled is almost always better than disabled.

http://www.groovypost.com/howto/usb-...ows-explained/

Control PanelDevice ManagerUSB Root HubPropertiesPower
Management

I have different things plugged in at different times. Do you suppose
it will keep the power management setting for the proper thing when
it's plugged in.

I'd suppose, but I always do testing to confirm.

I wish I had time now to shop for an external drive, so I could give
you all more feedback. But besides wanting things "just right",
I've got no pressure to do that because I have a harddrive dock which
I turn off when not using.

Maybe I'll cut open** my broken external drive (MyBook) and see if I
can replace the internal drive in it. That will save me a little bit
of money and maybe get a drive that sleeps when the computer sleeps.

**It's glued together good. It looks a little like a book, and the
outer piece runs from the front and curves around the "spine" to the
back. Even with a sharp knife to split the glued seams, I'll probably
never get it apart without breaking the cover. OTOH, apart from
looks, that won't hurt it.

Btw, the second path, above, should have read:
Control PanelDevice ManagerUniversal Serial Bus Controller
USB Root HubPropertiesPower Management

Thanks, I figured that out.

Micky wrote:

I wish I had time now to shop for an external drive, so I could give
you all more feedback. But besides wanting things "just right",
I've got no pressure to do that because I have a harddrive dock which
I turn off when not using.

Maybe I'll cut open** my broken external drive (MyBook) and see if I
can replace the internal drive in it.

Look for a disassembly web page.

The Mybook has "internal screws". That's what I
remember from a previous thread.

https://carltonbale.com/western-digi...ing-the-drive/

Use your model number to track down the specific
disassembly recipe.

Paul

[Default] On Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:44:17 -0400, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general Paul wrote:

Micky wrote:

I wish I had time now to shop for an external drive, so I could give
you all more feedback. But besides wanting things "just right",
I've got no pressure to do that because I have a harddrive dock which
I turn off when not using.

Maybe I'll cut open** my broken external drive (MyBook) and see if I
can replace the internal drive in it.

Look for a disassembly web page.

Amazing! It never occurred to me to even imagine there would be
instructions on a webpage. I was just making chitchat.

The Mybook has "internal screws". That's what I
remember from a previous thread.

https://carltonbale.com/western-digi...ing-the-drive/

Oh, there are screws and clips. Removing those might work better than
using a crowbar!

This has 500 comments and I may have to read them all!!

Use your model number to track down the specific
disassembly recipe.

First I found that "My Book Essential Edition 2.0 Specifications "
goes from 160MB to 2Gig. Mine was 500Meg**, but I'll bet I can
replace it with 2Gig. But what about 200Gig? Any advice what to
look for to predict if it will work?

**Apparently they used the same model number for 500Gig!! or maybe
they added 00. "i bought a Western Digital My Book 2 Essential 500GB
External model# wd5000h1u-00, " I think that's pretty stupid.

Two replies:
"Best Answer: try underneath the rubber stoppers at the bottom · 8
years ago
DavidSr P The external western digital I had was thematically
sealed. There are no screws and the case has to be cracked open to get
to the hard drive. Naturally destroying the case and voiding any and
all warranties. " I have no more warranty and and cracking a case is
not destroying it. It already has lots of holes; if it has cracks,
glued together or not, it will be fine. Why do people use extreme
language these days, including the politicians who say the other guy
is "destroying" the country?


I get 500gig drives when I search, even when I have a separate 500MB
search word, and when I put in -500GB I get nothing but ebay and
hivmr listings! But I'm making progress. So far the pads on the
bottom front don't come out but I'll watch a video to see if
removeable pads look like my pads.

Mine is older than I remember. I'm 93% sure there's nothing on it I
don't have another copy of. (Unlike another HDD I'm hoping will mend
if I let it sit in a corner for a few years.)

Paul