AGP rant

AGP variants almost boggle the mind and make it a nightmare to match
a video card to a motherboard.
With rare exception, makers of video boards only tell you the "X part
(1X, 2X, 4X, 8X) and nothing else.
Turns out there are 3 voltages possible for use of AGP boards: 3.3V,
1.5V and 0.8V.
Then there are the protocols: 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, ?2.5?, 3.0 and 3.5 .
So amoung these three variations, a multitude of possibilites exist
in the wild.

Makers of motherboards are a bit more forward in stating what each
motherboard will allow, but a number of them usually fail to disclose
the protocol.
To get the most complete "picture" of what a given motherboard will
support, one must meticulously scan thru sometimes incomplete and
sketchy motherboard "manuals", BIOS manuals, and reports (if any).
And even then, most times the information will be incomplete.

As a result, research makes it virtually impossible to determine, on
the basis of specifications, whether a given video board will actually
work on a given motherboard.
One my wind up getting 6 different video boards "that will work"
(according to seller) only to find that none of them work - never mind
you tried 2X, 4X, 8X and so-called "universal" boards of various types
(2X/4X and 4X/8X).

Makes one wonder if done on purpose.
Manufacturers, when asked if a given combo will work have ZERO comment.
** update **

Well, a lot of people on the web said that *any* "universal AGP"
motherboard would work withmy AIW Radeon video board, including
playtool.com video card info.
One must consider that, with the exception that a *particular*
combination has been tested as working, that all of such statements are
LIES.
Just re-word the playtool.com Motherboard and Card compatibility
chart from "works" to "might work if you are damn lucky on the
particular combination you try".
Otherwise, totally ignore the charts, and deplete a few million
dollars and years in trying all of the combinations for real-world
results!

The ASRock PE PRO socket 478, which has a "universal AGP 2x/4x socket"
does NOT work with the AIW Radeon "universal AGP 2x/4x" video board.

The ASRock PE PRO socket 478, which has a "universal AGP 2x/4x socket"
does NOT work with the AIW Radeon "universal AGP 2x/4x" video board.

5 year old mainboard and a 7 year old Radeon AIW card. Get real man.

Augustus wrote:
The ASRock PE PRO socket 478, which has a "universal AGP 2x/4x socket"
does NOT work with the AIW Radeon "universal AGP 2x/4x" video board.

5 year old mainboard and a 7 year old Radeon AIW card. Get real man.


Should they not work together though, as advertised ? The PC Industry
is, IMHO, a mess of mis-information, mixed and matched specifications
and products that might work and/or deliver less than 100% of their
advertised capabilities. You can spend hours researching whether or not
a given item will work in your particular board/PC only to still be
bitten in the ass by some quirkiness.
Why the move to PCI-E for video anyway ? Had the AGP bandwidth been
max'ed ? Or, just time to stimulate the bottomline with a new
theoretically faster specification ?
I see no reason to discard my 5 to 7 year old PC's. They do everything
that a new one does easily, other than gaming of course. The only gaming
I do though is Racing Simulations (N2003 & rFactor) and my 5 to 7 year
old stuff does that just fine.

The ASRock PE PRO socket 478, which has a "universal AGP 2x/4x socket"
does NOT work with the AIW Radeon "universal AGP 2x/4x" video board.

5 year old mainboard and a 7 year old Radeon AIW card. Get real man.

The flip side of your comment is my AIW 9600 PRO still capable of
receiving the latest Catalyst drivers (not that I use them) so ATI is
pretty good about having h/w with a _very_ long support cycle.

Although I do understand the OP's frustration. I _still_ have a Radeon
9700 around here somewhere thought I could just drop in a 440BX mobo
based box that was going to my son. As with many things in technology,
so called "standards" are sometimes non-standard.

Why the move to PCI-E for video anyway ? Had the AGP bandwidth been

Marketing, pure and simple.

max'ed ? Or, just time to stimulate the bottomline with a new
theoretically faster specification ?

I would like to see how a 9800 Pro AGP stands up to the latest PCI-E
board in business or multimedia (Photoshop, Flash, Dreamweaver, etc)
benchmark testing. My guess, is the difference isn't that dramatic.


I see no reason to discard my 5 to 7 year old PC's. They do everything
that a new one does easily, other than gaming of course. The only gaming
I do though is Racing Simulations (N2003 & rFactor) and my 5 to 7 year
old stuff does that just fine.

I'd be in your boat if I didn't have to work extensively with the
Adobe suite, Filters on large files in PS and compiling Flash
animations are severely taxing my P4 2.8, 1 gig memory system... but
the addition of a WD Raptor 10,000 rpm drive certainly gave it a kick
in the ass.

Going to be upgrading soon. vbseg

The OP's lengthy rant over AGP and mainboard compatability concerns a single
low end budget board that last retailed for $43US when availablle 2-3 years
back and won't work with his 7 generation old Radeon AGP AIW card dating
back to 2002. There's several hundreds (if not thousands) of AGP mainboards
out there and ditto for AGP cards over the years. What does he expect?
Your post contains multiple inaccuracies....the move to PCIe was not a
marketing driven one. It was primarily power requirements and bandwidth. You
would be right in saying that an AGP 9800 Pro won't perform a whole lot
differently in the apps you mentioned than, say an, 8800GT. Photoshop,
Dreamweaver and Flash production. These are completely CPU and memory
intensive and require no more than 2D card of any flavor.... The issues you
experience have nothing to do with your video card and everyrthing to do
with your system mentioned, which I assume is a 2.8Ghz P4D Northwood system
with 1 gig of RAM.

On the nVidia side:
All Geforce cards with native AGP GPUs work in all AGP motherboards. :-) So
you can stick a 6800 Ultra in a 440BX mobo and run Win98 drivers... But good
luck finding one with a TV tuner.

--
"War is the continuation of politics by other means.
It can therefore be said that politics is war without
bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed."


"Robert Baer" wrote in message
net...
AGP variants almost boggle the mind and make it a nightmare to match
a video card to a motherboard.
With rare exception, makers of video boards only tell you the "X part
(1X, 2X, 4X, 8X) and nothing else.
Turns out there are 3 voltages possible for use of AGP boards: 3.3V,
1.5V and 0.8V.
Then there are the protocols: 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, ?2.5?, 3.0 and 3.5 .
So amoung these three variations, a multitude of possibilites exist
in the wild.

Makers of motherboards are a bit more forward in stating what each
motherboard will allow, but a number of them usually fail to disclose
the protocol.
To get the most complete "picture" of what a given motherboard will
support, one must meticulously scan thru sometimes incomplete and
sketchy motherboard "manuals", BIOS manuals, and reports (if any).
And even then, most times the information will be incomplete.

As a result, research makes it virtually impossible to determine, on
the basis of specifications, whether a given video board will actually
work on a given motherboard.
One my wind up getting 6 different video boards "that will work"
(according to seller) only to find that none of them work - never mind
you tried 2X, 4X, 8X and so-called "universal" boards of various types
(2X/4X and 4X/8X).

Makes one wonder if done on purpose.
Manufacturers, when asked if a given combo will work have ZERO comment.
** update **

Well, a lot of people on the web said that *any* "universal AGP"
motherboard would work withmy AIW Radeon video board, including
playtool.com video card info.
One must consider that, with the exception that a *particular*
combination has been tested as working, that all of such statements are
LIES.
Just re-word the playtool.com Motherboard and Card compatibility
chart from "works" to "might work if you are damn lucky on the
particular combination you try".
Otherwise, totally ignore the charts, and deplete a few million
dollars and years in trying all of the combinations for real-world
results!

The ASRock PE PRO socket 478, which has a "universal AGP 2x/4x socket"
does NOT work with the AIW Radeon "universal AGP 2x/4x" video board.

Augustus wrote:

The ASRock PE PRO socket 478, which has a "universal AGP 2x/4x socket"
does NOT work with the AIW Radeon "universal AGP 2x/4x" video board.


5 year old mainboard and a 7 year old Radeon AIW card. Get real man.


As long as you are so rich, send a thousand dollars this way so i can
afford a newer system...
I am Socially Insecure, and can hardly afford to pay attention (to
your ignorance).

KingsHead wrote:

Augustus wrote:

The ASRock PE PRO socket 478, which has a "universal AGP 2x/4x socket"
does NOT work with the AIW Radeon "universal AGP 2x/4x" video board.


5 year old mainboard and a 7 year old Radeon AIW card. Get real man.

Should they not work together though, as advertised ? The PC Industry
is, IMHO, a mess of mis-information, mixed and matched specifications
and products that might work and/or deliver less than 100% of their
advertised capabilities. You can spend hours researching whether or not
a given item will work in your particular board/PC only to still be
bitten in the ass by some quirkiness.
Why the move to PCI-E for video anyway ? Had the AGP bandwidth been
max'ed ? Or, just time to stimulate the bottomline with a new
theoretically faster specification ?
I see no reason to discard my 5 to 7 year old PC's. They do everything
that a new one does easily, other than gaming of course. The only gaming
I do though is Racing Simulations (N2003 & rFactor) and my 5 to 7 year
old stuff does that just fine.
I am glad you did not get stuck with a motherboard that was made with
counterfeit capacitors; mine was, and that is why it is dying and i need
a replacement.
But i cannot afford to continually swap MBs that are "supposed" to
work but do not.
Suggestions?

Chuck U. Farley wrote:

The ASRock PE PRO socket 478, which has a "universal AGP 2x/4x socket"
does NOT work with the AIW Radeon "universal AGP 2x/4x" video board.

5 year old mainboard and a 7 year old Radeon AIW card. Get real man.


The flip side of your comment is my AIW 9600 PRO still capable of
receiving the latest Catalyst drivers (not that I use them) so ATI is
pretty good about having h/w with a _very_ long support cycle.

Although I do understand the OP's frustration. I _still_ have a Radeon
9700 around here somewhere thought I could just drop in a 440BX mobo
based box that was going to my son. As with many things in technology,
so called "standards" are sometimes non-standard.


Why the move to PCI-E for video anyway ? Had the AGP bandwidth been


Marketing, pure and simple.


max'ed ? Or, just time to stimulate the bottomline with a new
theoretically faster specification ?


I would like to see how a 9800 Pro AGP stands up to the latest PCI-E
board in business or multimedia (Photoshop, Flash, Dreamweaver, etc)
benchmark testing. My guess, is the difference isn't that dramatic.



I see no reason to discard my 5 to 7 year old PC's. They do everything
that a new one does easily, other than gaming of course. The only gaming
I do though is Racing Simulations (N2003 & rFactor) and my 5 to 7 year
old stuff does that just fine.


I'd be in your boat if I didn't have to work extensively with the
Adobe suite, Filters on large files in PS and compiling Flash
animations are severely taxing my P4 2.8, 1 gig memory system... but
the addition of a WD Raptor 10,000 rpm drive certainly gave it a kick
in the ass.

Going to be upgrading soon. vbseg

I am trying to find a motherboard that is *known* to work with the
AIW, and am running out of money faster than patience.

First of One wrote:

On the nVidia side:
All Geforce cards with native AGP GPUs work in all AGP motherboards. :-) So
you can stick a 6800 Ultra in a 440BX mobo and run Win98 drivers... But good
luck finding one with a TV tuner.

Check.
If i had $, i could get a much newer system with a tuner board and a
seperate video board along with a new motherboard, a new.....