Need help to complete Skybuck's 2005 (dream) PC design ;)

"Skybuck Flying"

I am probably going to set the pc on the ground so a build in front end
panel is unhandy for me, the rack is much more handy and nice since it can
be placed on the desk providing easy access to all the nice rotary
controls
=D

I suggest you put the pc on a small stand to keep it a few inches off the
floor/ground. All my family think the best place in the world for the cpu
is on the floor under the desk. That's the worst place for it, for dust,
lint and lack of good airflow. BUT, it's your baby


I already read about the X-Fi but forgot about it... it also looked
expensive at the time like 500 bucks, now maybe like 380 bucks for the
elite/pro version still a lot but what the **** lol. I rather have quality
than something ****ty =D

Are your ears that good? Really? Try the newer 8:1 sound that comes on the
better motherboards now. I have for my own build this past weekend, and
was pleasantly surprised.



The most important part is that every component is high quality (= long
life
time). The second most important part is speed/performance/visual
quality/sound quality etc.

The AMD64 X2 4800+ is a good choice for quality, speed, and likely
durability. Its normal idle and operating temps are about the same as my
2.0ghz P4 Northwood core. Everest Home says it's 38C (100F) right now and
the room is just starting to cool down. For the durability factor, no
matter how you clock things, keep the temps DOWN. the lower the better


The motherboard/bios is a single point of failure, since they are
pretty
cheap compared to the rest of the system I could simply buy two or
three
motherboards in case the first one fails. I do not want downtime or
having
to buy all new components if the motherboard dies in a couple of years
and
future/new motherboards cant handle these by then older components
This
PC must last for at least 5 to 10 years ( 5 to 6 years of heavy use
and
4
to 5 years gathering dust and an occasional use )

The cpu is also a point of failure as well as the power supply. However
hopefully power supplies will be compatible in the future. In case the
motherboard has an outdated bios and needs to be flashed to support a
new
bios it might be necessary to buy a really cheap cpu... Still wasting
150
euro's or so just for a bios upgrade is a bit much I do plan on
phoning
up the supplier to ask about the bios version but maybe it's best to go
with
a cheap cpu to be able to flash the bios just in case... thereby
preventing
the dead in the water risk

You mention several points of failure. *ANYTHING* that operates can be a
point of failure. Anything involving mechanical motion such as motors
(fans, hard drives, optical drives) are the most prone to failure.

BIOS. why ya messin with BIOS chips? These days you simply flash the BIOS
and its upgraded.

So what is still missing from this picture/list:

Case ?
Get a case with very good airflow, plenty of room to work around the mobo,
lots of drive slots, room in FRONT of the drive slots for fan(s), anything
else is your preference

Controller(s) ?
Power cables and such ?
Screws, other mounting devices ?
Network cables ?
Network switch ?
Usb stuff ?
PS/2 Ports ?
Serial Ports ?
Power supply ?
Get a GOOD high quality PS from a known reputable maker, like Antec or
Thermaltake. They use better components, ball bearing fans, are quiet and
dependable. I suggest a 550W for the number of HD's and the SLI'd 7800s

Extra fans ? ALways Put a couple in front pulling air over the
drives. Put a couple in the rear to pull air out. I also put one in
the side pushing fresh air over the vid card CPU fan area. The better
fans are ball bearing, have more blades, turn a little slower and are
quiet.

Other than this, most of the stuff you list above come with motherboards
these days. I just bought a GA K8NS Ultra 939 (AGP, not PCI-e) to use (for
now) with my X2 4800+. This Gigabyte mobo comes with ALL drive cables,
power adapters for the SATA drives, all the rear breakout jack plates for
USB, IEEE1394, two for the 8.1 sound including the SP DIF. One treat was
that I bought the mobo and CPU together, the CPU was tray, not boxed, it
came installed with heatsink and lovely Gigabyte fan with 4 blue LED's. Fan
is 4" across and you cannot hear it.

Opening the box to one of the top class (Ultra) Gigabye motherboards is a
lot like Christmas, there are all kinds of goodies in there. This one cost
me $145 US. The X2 4800+ was $985 US.


I also have some old IDE drives so a motherboard with IDE support would
be
nice to connect
the old ones in case necessary.

I have read some manuals in the past and have some question about that
too
which are below, though first I would like answers to the questions
above
which would already make me quit happy =D

Additional far sought and hard questions:

1. What exactly is a boxed cpu ?

Boxed is CPU, heatsink and fan, in a retail box. The mfgr calls it "Cpu and
Thermal Solution" , they also do come with either thermal tape or a small
tube of thermal paste. OTH, Tray is where the CPU's come several to a tray.
Mine (for whatever reason) came already installed in the motherboard :-\
FROM the warehouse distributor. The mobo box was still taped. That's a
puzzle actually, wonder if it came from Gigabyte with the X2 installed?
Heh!


I think it's a cpu with thermal interface material applied and a
heatsink
and fan on it ?

( Are there drawback to such a construction ? for example thermal stuff
drying up or something ?
Maybe not even well applied ? (anybody ever seen a **** up from a
factory
? )

2. Some motherboard have onboard gigabit ethernet lan/stuff, will these
works with a cable modem ?
(Motoral cable modem SB4200E)

YUP! Both of mine do. One is Marvell and the other is nVidia. This is an
nForce3Ultra chipset.


Since I am planning on seperate network cards and these network cards
support 10/100/1000 I think this is not an issue but still, this
explains
why I want seperate network card just in case and also still not sure
if
these seperate network cards will work with it

Not necessary. The seperate LAN adapters onboard ARE seperate, and can be
individually enabled in the BIOS. They each have their own driver. They
each have their own MAC address.


3. I saw a recent motherboard it had this extra 4x pci slot it was
black
and
really small, what exactly is this ?

The manual said it could be used for an extra graphics card but it
seems
so
small ?

4. Is it possible to connect a firewire connector into an usb slot or
vice
versa ? the manual says that might damage the motherboard etc.

Might? mobo go **POW!** oh, and do NOT plug your phone line into a LAN
port like my sister did. If the phone rings...no mo LAN port.


5. Power requirements of my design above

High much voltage do all components require, cpu, videocard, harddisks,
optical drives, etc, etc ?

Voltage? 12 and 5

High much ampere do all components require, cpu, videocard, harddisks,
optical drives, etc, etc ?

Variable, and a hot topic in some ng's. Your configuration with dual
7800's and a lot of drives will take a lot of current. Your CPU, though it
IS a dual core, will NOT be a hog for the light bill like the Intel dual
core 940EE, which would be the direct competitor to the X2 4800+.
it's why I suggested a good 550w PS.

How to calculate these power requirements ?

The power supply should be able to deliver this ammount of voltage and
ampere.

The voltage is a standard that all the power supplies must adhere to, those
are fixed. What is not and cannot be 'fixed' is the current (Amperes).
Watts being the heat generated by use. If you look closer at some of the
specs for the mobo and ps, you'll see several 'rails' mentioned. +/- 5V and
12V for the PS, and the mobo will have its own voltage regulators for the
1.5v and 3.3v for the slots. There is a seperate CPU supply cable (square,
4 pin) and it has its own regulators and filters.


A motherboard manual mentioned 500 watt and 25A at least

6. Some motherboard manual said: Internal audio connectors are disabled
during 8 audio channel mode. ?

Suppose the internal audio connectors go to the CD drive, does this
mean
the
CD drive can't play a music CD while the harddisk is used to play a
game
?

(I think one of my previous pc's could do that sometime in the past...
maybe
it was
on the gigabyte motherboard... oh well I dont have any cd's
anyway...
except
for a half damaged mp3 cd )

7. A manual said:

Note firewire is +12v compared to +5 for usb. Never connect usb to
firewire
that could destroy the motherboard. why actually ?

8. A manual said:

Make sure the power button is off.

How does one make sure all power buttons are off ?? before connecting
the
power cable ?

In the past power buttons where these flip switches, now it's just push
button which goes back out etc so it's impossible to tell if it's on or
off
when looking at the power button only

9. Power button should turn off the pc no matter what !

10. Is it required to install an IDE harddisk ? or is it possible to
have
SATA drives only ?

A manual said: "no ide harddisk detected" in the post report.

Maybe the word "ide" should have been left out of this description

Bye,
Skybuck.







Now I find you're just being funny? Well hell, I'll post this anyway
McG.

"McGrandpa" wrote in message
. ..

"Skybuck Flying"

I am probably going to set the pc on the ground so a build in front end
panel is unhandy for me, the rack is much more handy and nice since it
can
be placed on the desk providing easy access to all the nice rotary
controls
=D

I suggest you put the pc on a small stand to keep it a few inches off the
floor/ground. All my family think the best place in the world for the
cpu
is on the floor under the desk. That's the worst place for it, for dust,
lint and lack of good airflow. BUT, it's your baby

Not much choice... I rather keep some free space on my desk for other stuff


I do wonder how much dust gets sucked into the big tower currently under my
desktop.

Though I think must of the dust gets stuck in the power supply itself.

Then it starts making noise etc.

So a fanless power supply might be nice, less dust and less noise. However
that would mean less airflow so that might be risky.

But maybe some other quite fan on the side of the case would be nice
especially if it had a dust filter



I already read about the X-Fi but forgot about it... it also looked
expensive at the time like 500 bucks, now maybe like 380 bucks for the
elite/pro version still a lot but what the **** lol. I rather have
quality
than something ****ty =D

Are your ears that good? Really? Try the newer 8:1 sound that comes on
the
better motherboards now. I have for my own build this past weekend, and
was pleasantly surprised.

Asus produces boards which onboard audio that dont work

Onboard audio requires more cpu so it's kinda cheating.

So that's the reason for an extra sound card

Though I will definetly try out the onboard audio




The most important part is that every component is high quality (=
long
life
time). The second most important part is speed/performance/visual
quality/sound quality etc.

The AMD64 X2 4800+ is a good choice for quality, speed, and likely
durability. Its normal idle and operating temps are about the same as my
2.0ghz P4 Northwood core. Everest Home says it's 38C (100F) right now and
the room is just starting to cool down. For the durability factor, no
matter how you clock things, keep the temps DOWN. the lower the better


The motherboard/bios is a single point of failure, since they are
pretty
cheap compared to the rest of the system I could simply buy two or
three
motherboards in case the first one fails. I do not want downtime or
having
to buy all new components if the motherboard dies in a couple of
years
and
future/new motherboards cant handle these by then older components
This
PC must last for at least 5 to 10 years ( 5 to 6 years of heavy
use
and
4
to 5 years gathering dust and an occasional use )

The cpu is also a point of failure as well as the power supply.
However
hopefully power supplies will be compatible in the future. In case
the
motherboard has an outdated bios and needs to be flashed to support a
new
bios it might be necessary to buy a really cheap cpu... Still wasting
150
euro's or so just for a bios upgrade is a bit much I do plan on
phoning
up the supplier to ask about the bios version but maybe it's best to
go
with
a cheap cpu to be able to flash the bios just in case... thereby
preventing
the dead in the water risk

You mention several points of failure. *ANYTHING* that operates can be a
point of failure. Anything involving mechanical motion such as motors
(fans, hard drives, optical drives) are the most prone to failure.

Well the motherboard/bios is the most critical. If that dies everything has
to be taken out etc.

If that happens in the future one might not even be able to purchase a new
matching motherboard.

Next is the cpu for the same last reason.

The rest is non critical at least for machine operation.

Ofcourse the harddisk contains all information lol which is critical for
information loss


BIOS. why ya messin with BIOS chips? These days you simply flash the
BIOS
and its upgraded.

Flashing=messing

Might be required for athlon x2 processor.

Bad flash = dead motherboard = ....


So what is still missing from this picture/list:

Case ?
Get a case with very good airflow, plenty of room to work around the mobo,
lots of drive slots, room in FRONT of the drive slots for fan(s), anything
else is your preference

More airflows is more dust inside... ever seen any dust filters ?

I want a minimum of airflow just enough to cool everything for acceptable
operation temperature.

I dont want to spent my time cleaning fans, replacing them oiling them
etc...

Though one good, quite fan for the main case might be required for a minimum
of airflow to get the heat out of there

I am looking for links to actually products though so I can look into them
some more


Controller(s) ?
Power cables and such ?
Screws, other mounting devices ?
Network cables ?
Network switch ?
Usb stuff ?
PS/2 Ports ?
Serial Ports ?
Power supply ?
Get a GOOD high quality PS from a known reputable maker, like Antec or
Thermaltake. They use better components, ball bearing fans, are quiet and
dependable. I suggest a 550W for the number of HD's and the SLI'd 7800s

I was thinking about a fanless power supply. However one extra fan for the
case itself is probably required to get the heat out of there.


Extra fans ? ALways Put a couple in front pulling air over the
drives. Put a couple in the rear to pull air out. I also put one in

the side pushing fresh air over the vid card CPU fan area. The
better
fans are ball bearing, have more blades, turn a little slower and are
quiet.

Minimum of fans pls dont want a noisy dustsucking pc


Other than this, most of the stuff you list above come with motherboards
these days. I just bought a GA K8NS Ultra 939 (AGP, not PCI-e) to use
(for
now) with my X2 4800+. This Gigabyte mobo comes with ALL drive cables,
power adapters for the SATA drives, all the rear breakout jack plates for
USB, IEEE1394, two for the 8.1 sound including the SP DIF. One treat was
that I bought the mobo and CPU together, the CPU was tray, not boxed, it
came installed with heatsink and lovely Gigabyte fan with 4 blue LED's.
Fan
is 4" across and you cannot hear it.

Opening the box to one of the top class (Ultra) Gigabye motherboards is a
lot like Christmas, there are all kinds of goodies in there. This one
cost
me $145 US. The X2 4800+ was $985 US.


I also have some old IDE drives so a motherboard with IDE support
would
be
nice to connect
the old ones in case necessary.

I have read some manuals in the past and have some question about
that
too
which are below, though first I would like answers to the questions
above
which would already make me quit happy =D

Additional far sought and hard questions:

1. What exactly is a boxed cpu ?

Boxed is CPU, heatsink and fan, in a retail box. The mfgr calls it "Cpu
and
Thermal Solution" , they also do come with either thermal tape or a
small
tube of thermal paste. OTH, Tray is where the CPU's come several to a
tray.
Mine (for whatever reason) came already installed in the motherboard :-\
FROM the warehouse distributor. The mobo box was still taped. That's a
puzzle actually, wonder if it came from Gigabyte with the X2 installed?
Heh!

Ok, so does "boxed" mean you still have to assemble it yourself or is it
pre-assembled ?

pre-assembled could mean the paste dried up ?

So it's probably not pre-assembled ?



I think it's a cpu with thermal interface material applied and a
heatsink
and fan on it ?

( Are there drawback to such a construction ? for example thermal
stuff
drying up or something ?
Maybe not even well applied ? (anybody ever seen a **** up from a
factory
? )

2. Some motherboard have onboard gigabit ethernet lan/stuff, will
these
works with a cable modem ?
(Motoral cable modem SB4200E)

YUP! Both of mine do. One is Marvell and the other is nVidia. This is
an
nForce3Ultra chipset.


Since I am planning on seperate network cards and these network cards
support 10/100/1000 I think this is not an issue but still, this
explains
why I want seperate network card just in case and also still not sure
if
these seperate network cards will work with it

Not necessary. The seperate LAN adapters onboard ARE seperate, and can be
individually enabled in the BIOS. They each have their own driver. They
each have their own MAC address.

The question is if these onboard lan adapaters work with 10 megabit cable
modems ?

But you already answered that question above however that was for the
nforce3 what about nforce4 ?



3. I saw a recent motherboard it had this extra 4x pci slot it was
black
and
really small, what exactly is this ?

The manual said it could be used for an extra graphics card but it
seems
so
small ?

4. Is it possible to connect a firewire connector into an usb slot or
vice
versa ? the manual says that might damage the motherboard etc.

Might? mobo go **POW!** oh, and do NOT plug your phone line into a LAN
port like my sister did. If the phone rings...no mo LAN port.

Ouch.



5. Power requirements of my design above

High much voltage do all components require, cpu, videocard,
harddisks,
optical drives, etc, etc ?

Voltage? 12 and 5

How much in total I ment


High much ampere do all components require, cpu, videocard,
harddisks,
optical drives, etc, etc ?

Variable, and a hot topic in some ng's. Your configuration with dual
7800's and a lot of drives will take a lot of current. Your CPU, though
it
IS a dual core, will NOT be a hog for the light bill like the Intel dual
core 940EE, which would be the direct competitor to the X2 4800+.
it's why I suggested a good 550w PS.

How to calculate these power requirements ?

The power supply should be able to deliver this ammount of voltage
and
ampere.

The voltage is a standard that all the power supplies must adhere to,
those
are fixed. What is not and cannot be 'fixed' is the current (Amperes).
Watts being the heat generated by use. If you look closer at some of the
specs for the mobo and ps, you'll see several 'rails' mentioned. +/- 5V
and
12V for the PS, and the mobo will have its own voltage regulators for the
1.5v and 3.3v for the slots. There is a seperate CPU supply cable
(square,
4 pin) and it has its own regulators and filters.


A motherboard manual mentioned 500 watt and 25A at least

6. Some motherboard manual said: Internal audio connectors are
disabled
during 8 audio channel mode. ?

Suppose the internal audio connectors go to the CD drive, does this
mean
the
CD drive can't play a music CD while the harddisk is used to play a
game
?

(I think one of my previous pc's could do that sometime in the
past...
maybe
it was
on the gigabyte motherboard... oh well I dont have any cd's
anyway...
except
for a half damaged mp3 cd )

7. A manual said:

Note firewire is +12v compared to +5 for usb. Never connect usb to
firewire
that could destroy the motherboard. why actually ?

8. A manual said:

Make sure the power button is off.

How does one make sure all power buttons are off ?? before connecting
the
power cable ?

In the past power buttons where these flip switches, now it's just
push
button which goes back out etc so it's impossible to tell if it's on
or
off
when looking at the power button only

9. Power button should turn off the pc no matter what !

10. Is it required to install an IDE harddisk ? or is it possible to
have
SATA drives only ?

A manual said: "no ide harddisk detected" in the post report.

Maybe the word "ide" should have been left out of this description

Bye,
Skybuck.







Now I find you're just being funny? Well hell, I'll post this anyway
McG.

Ok, now I just need some links to good products which can handle all
components etc

Bye,
Skybuck