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10TB Hard Drive, can't even be accessed by modern OS's yet!



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 14th 15, 05:36 AM posted to atl.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Yousuf Khan[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,296
Default 10TB Hard Drive, can't even be accessed by modern OS's yet!

Sadly This 10TB Hard Drive Is Designed For Servers, Not Your Laptop
http://gizmodo.com/sadly-this-10tb-h...not-1691245306

Hitachi Global Storage Technologies—aka HGST, aka a subsidiary of
Western Digital—was recently showing off its gigantic new 10TB hard
drive at the Linux Foundation Vault tradeshow in Boston. But
unfortunately you won't be packing 10,000 gigabytes into your laptop
anytime soon because the drive is designed for use in servers, and
mostly because it requires special software to work.

Originally revealed back in September of last year, HGST will finally be
shipping its 10TB SMR HelioSeal HDD sometime in the second quarter of
this year. But the drive will require special updates to an OS like
Linux in order for a server to actually be able to read and write to it
thanks to the radical new storage technologies it employs.

The HelioSeal technology simply means the drive is actually pumped full
of helium to help reduce friction between the read/write heads and the
platter which allows HGST to squeeze more platters inside since there's
less heat to have to deal with. It's the SMR technology that poses the
software problems.

SMR stands for Shingled Magnetic Recording and it basically describes
how data is written to the platters. In a traditional hard drive the
data is written in thin lines with a tiny gap in-between each one to
help minimize corruption. It's similar to how grooves of music are laid
out on a vinyl record. With SMR those data tracks slightly overlap
instead, like waterproof shingles on the roof of a home. There are no
longer any gaps in-between each track which allows more data to be
stored on a single platter, but at the cost of more complicated software
on the OS to properly read, write, and over-write data without
destroying neighboring tracks.

It sounds complicated, and it is, which is why HGST's new 10TB drive has
been slow to come to market. Everyone involved wants to make sure the
technology and supporting software works perfectly to avoid disastrous
data loss. But there's no reason to think the technology won't be ready
for desktop PCs and eventually laptops in a few years. Who needs that
cloud anyways?
  #2  
Old March 14th 15, 10:11 AM posted to atl.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default 10TB Hard Drive, can't even be accessed by modern OS's yet!

Yousuf Khan wrote:
Sadly This 10TB Hard Drive Is Designed For Servers, Not Your Laptop
http://gizmodo.com/sadly-this-10tb-h...not-1691245306


Hitachi Global Storage Technologies—aka HGST, aka a subsidiary of
Western Digital—was recently showing off its gigantic new 10TB hard
drive at the Linux Foundation Vault tradeshow in Boston. But
unfortunately you won't be packing 10,000 gigabytes into your laptop
anytime soon because the drive is designed for use in servers, and
mostly because it requires special software to work.

Originally revealed back in September of last year, HGST will finally be
shipping its 10TB SMR HelioSeal HDD sometime in the second quarter of
this year. But the drive will require special updates to an OS like
Linux in order for a server to actually be able to read and write to it
thanks to the radical new storage technologies it employs.

The HelioSeal technology simply means the drive is actually pumped full
of helium to help reduce friction between the read/write heads and the
platter which allows HGST to squeeze more platters inside since there's
less heat to have to deal with. It's the SMR technology that poses the
software problems.

SMR stands for Shingled Magnetic Recording and it basically describes
how data is written to the platters. In a traditional hard drive the
data is written in thin lines with a tiny gap in-between each one to
help minimize corruption. It's similar to how grooves of music are laid
out on a vinyl record. With SMR those data tracks slightly overlap
instead, like waterproof shingles on the roof of a home. There are no
longer any gaps in-between each track which allows more data to be
stored on a single platter, but at the cost of more complicated software
on the OS to properly read, write, and over-write data without
destroying neighboring tracks.

It sounds complicated, and it is, which is why HGST's new 10TB drive has
been slow to come to market. Everyone involved wants to make sure the
technology and supporting software works perfectly to avoid disastrous
data loss. But there's no reason to think the technology won't be ready
for desktop PCs and eventually laptops in a few years. Who needs that
cloud anyways?


http://www.storagereview.com/seagate...hdd_review_8tb

"SMR drives are not designed to cope with sustained write behavior"

"We found large sustained backup tasks to take longer than a traditional
PMR HDD, averaging about 30MB/s"

"The SMR drives took much longer for a traditional full backup,
averaging 30MB/s.

However we saw sustained read speeds during a 400GB VM recovery
in excess of 180MB/s, which is really the core metric.
"

It's possible the slightly smaller drives are not affected
like that. Some of the 6TB ones are OK. I saw a review comparing
a few products in the 6TB range, and they had decent sustained
numbers (for home users who care about such things).

This isn't that review, but it'll have to do. It's for a
Seagate 6TB drive, with numbers over 200MB/sec for large
enough block size operations.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/revi...4_review/4.htm

If you have external disk enclosures, some of the new disks
have a different hole pattern on the bottom, so for drives
that are held into place with screws from the bottom,
only two screws will mate.

I think home users will be staying "one step behind the curve",
to get the best possible secondary storage. SSD for C:,
conventional (non-SMR) secondary storage.

The flying height, the last time I checked, was 3nm. HGST is
experimenting with zero flying height. If you thought your
old drives seemed to have a "wear phenomenon", we're just
getting started. The experimental zero flying height setup
HGST used, lasted one month before the head was ruined. But
they'll figure it out eventually.

I'm crossing my fingers and hoping my current set of
drives last a long time. I'm very happy to not have
30MB/sec writes.

Paul
  #3  
Old March 14th 15, 01:39 PM posted to atl.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Drew
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default 10TB Hard Drive, can't even be accessed by modern OS's yet!

On 3/14/2015 2:11 AM, Paul wrote:
Yousuf Khan wrote:
Sadly This 10TB Hard Drive Is Designed For Servers, Not Your Laptop
http://gizmodo.com/sadly-this-10tb-h...not-1691245306


Hitachi Global Storage Technologies—aka HGST, aka a subsidiary of
Western Digital—was recently showing off its gigantic new 10TB hard
drive at the Linux Foundation Vault tradeshow in Boston. But
unfortunately you won't be packing 10,000 gigabytes into your laptop
anytime soon because the drive is designed for use in servers, and
mostly because it requires special software to work.

Originally revealed back in September of last year, HGST will finally
be shipping its 10TB SMR HelioSeal HDD sometime in the second quarter
of this year. But the drive will require special updates to an OS like
Linux in order for a server to actually be able to read and write to
it thanks to the radical new storage technologies it employs.

The HelioSeal technology simply means the drive is actually pumped
full of helium to help reduce friction between the read/write heads
and the platter which allows HGST to squeeze more platters inside
since there's less heat to have to deal with. It's the SMR technology
that poses the software problems.

SMR stands for Shingled Magnetic Recording and it basically describes
how data is written to the platters. In a traditional hard drive the
data is written in thin lines with a tiny gap in-between each one to
help minimize corruption. It's similar to how grooves of music are
laid out on a vinyl record. With SMR those data tracks slightly
overlap instead, like waterproof shingles on the roof of a home. There
are no longer any gaps in-between each track which allows more data to
be stored on a single platter, but at the cost of more complicated
software on the OS to properly read, write, and over-write data
without destroying neighboring tracks.

It sounds complicated, and it is, which is why HGST's new 10TB drive
has been slow to come to market. Everyone involved wants to make sure
the technology and supporting software works perfectly to avoid
disastrous data loss. But there's no reason to think the technology
won't be ready for desktop PCs and eventually laptops in a few years.
Who needs that cloud anyways?


http://www.storagereview.com/seagate...hdd_review_8tb

"SMR drives are not designed to cope with sustained write behavior"

"We found large sustained backup tasks to take longer than a
traditional
PMR HDD, averaging about 30MB/s"

"The SMR drives took much longer for a traditional full backup,
averaging 30MB/s.

However we saw sustained read speeds during a 400GB VM recovery
in excess of 180MB/s, which is really the core metric.
"

It's possible the slightly smaller drives are not affected
like that. Some of the 6TB ones are OK. I saw a review comparing
a few products in the 6TB range, and they had decent sustained
numbers (for home users who care about such things).

This isn't that review, but it'll have to do. It's for a
Seagate 6TB drive, with numbers over 200MB/sec for large
enough block size operations.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/revi...4_review/4.htm


If you have external disk enclosures, some of the new disks
have a different hole pattern on the bottom, so for drives
that are held into place with screws from the bottom,
only two screws will mate.

I think home users will be staying "one step behind the curve",
to get the best possible secondary storage. SSD for C:,
conventional (non-SMR) secondary storage.

The flying height, the last time I checked, was 3nm. HGST is
experimenting with zero flying height. If you thought your
old drives seemed to have a "wear phenomenon", we're just
getting started. The experimental zero flying height setup
HGST used, lasted one month before the head was ruined. But
they'll figure it out eventually.

I'm crossing my fingers and hoping my current set of
drives last a long time. I'm very happy to not have
30MB/sec writes.

Paul

Why would a home user need 10,000 gigabytes of storage? By the time you
fill it something new would come along or it would die first.
  #4  
Old March 14th 15, 01:40 PM posted to atl.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Mr. Man-wai Chang
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 697
Default 10TB Hard Drive, can't even be accessed by modern OS's yet!

On 14/3/15 12:36 PM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
Sadly This 10TB Hard Drive Is Designed For Servers, Not Your Laptop
http://gizmodo.com/sadly-this-10tb-h...not-1691245306


The 6TB is available to the consumer market!

It sounds complicated, and it is, which is why HGST's new 10TB drive has
been slow to come to market. Everyone involved wants to make sure the
technology and supporting software works perfectly to avoid disastrous
data loss. But there's no reason to think the technology won't be ready
for desktop PCs and eventually laptops in a few years. Who needs that
cloud anyways?


I would worry about these drives' reliability! We are talking about
personal data here!

--
@~@ Remain silent. Nothing from soldiers and magicians is real!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you!
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  #5  
Old March 14th 15, 01:49 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Mike Tomlinson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 431
Default 10TB Hard Drive, can't even be accessed by modern OS's yet!

En el artculo , Yousuf
Khan escribi:

but at the cost of more complicated software
on the OS to properly read, write, and over-write data without
destroying neighboring tracks.


This is bull****. The OS has nothing to do with it, the drive firmware
does it and this process is invisible to the OS.

(Not having a go at you Yousuf, I know you're quoting an article posted
elsewhere)

The reason these are being aimed at the enterprise market is that SMR
(shingled magnetic recording) suffers from very slow write speeds due to
the overlapping tracks, making this sort of drive more suited to long-
term archival storage (e.g. in the cloud) than in a desktop or server
machine.

--
:: je suis Charlie :: yo soy Charlie :: ik ben Charlie ::
  #6  
Old March 14th 15, 01:59 PM posted to atl.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
pjp[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default 10TB Hard Drive, can't even be accessed by modern OS's yet!

In article , says...

On 3/14/2015 2:11 AM, Paul wrote:
Yousuf Khan wrote:
Sadly This 10TB Hard Drive Is Designed For Servers, Not Your Laptop
http://gizmodo.com/sadly-this-10tb-h...not-1691245306


Hitachi Global Storage Technologies?aka HGST, aka a subsidiary of
Western Digital?was recently showing off its gigantic new 10TB hard
drive at the Linux Foundation Vault tradeshow in Boston. But
unfortunately you won't be packing 10,000 gigabytes into your laptop
anytime soon because the drive is designed for use in servers, and
mostly because it requires special software to work.

Originally revealed back in September of last year, HGST will finally
be shipping its 10TB SMR HelioSeal HDD sometime in the second quarter
of this year. But the drive will require special updates to an OS like
Linux in order for a server to actually be able to read and write to
it thanks to the radical new storage technologies it employs.

The HelioSeal technology simply means the drive is actually pumped
full of helium to help reduce friction between the read/write heads
and the platter which allows HGST to squeeze more platters inside
since there's less heat to have to deal with. It's the SMR technology
that poses the software problems.

SMR stands for Shingled Magnetic Recording and it basically describes
how data is written to the platters. In a traditional hard drive the
data is written in thin lines with a tiny gap in-between each one to
help minimize corruption. It's similar to how grooves of music are
laid out on a vinyl record. With SMR those data tracks slightly
overlap instead, like waterproof shingles on the roof of a home. There
are no longer any gaps in-between each track which allows more data to
be stored on a single platter, but at the cost of more complicated
software on the OS to properly read, write, and over-write data
without destroying neighboring tracks.

It sounds complicated, and it is, which is why HGST's new 10TB drive
has been slow to come to market. Everyone involved wants to make sure
the technology and supporting software works perfectly to avoid
disastrous data loss. But there's no reason to think the technology
won't be ready for desktop PCs and eventually laptops in a few years.
Who needs that cloud anyways?


http://www.storagereview.com/seagate...hdd_review_8tb

"SMR drives are not designed to cope with sustained write behavior"

"We found large sustained backup tasks to take longer than a
traditional


I have almost 10Tb (9+) attached to main pc and almost as much again if
I want to mount network shares. Mix mash of internal and external 1,2 &
3Tb drives. All are used but I try and keep them all over 50% clean to
facilitate if I need to copy from one to another in case one goes
bonkers I have a place to save what I can first before sending back or
replacing.
  #7  
Old March 14th 15, 02:22 PM posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Percival P. Cassidy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 227
Default 10TB Hard Drive, can't even be accessed by modern OS's yet!

On 03/14/2015 08:39 AM, Drew wrote:

Why would a home user need 10,000 gigabytes of storage? By the time you
fill it something new would come along or it would die first.


I am a home user. My FreeNAS system has 12 x 2TB drives (four of which
are dedicated to parity/redundancy -- oversimplified description) and I
have 5TB free. This machine holds my "ripped" CD collection plus backups
of four other machines that used to be stored on a shelf-full of DDS4
backup tapes.

Perce

  #8  
Old March 14th 15, 05:21 PM posted to atl.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default 10TB Hard Drive, can't even be accessed by modern OS's yet!

Wolf K wrote:

Why can't a 10TB HDD be
configured the same way?


One of the commenters at the end of that Gizmodo
article, points out the difference.

http://gizmodo.com/sadly-this-10tb-h...not-1691245306
  #9  
Old March 14th 15, 05:24 PM posted to atl.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,364
Default 10TB Hard Drive, can't even be accessed by modern OS's yet!

Paul wrote:
Wolf K wrote:

Why can't a 10TB HDD be configured the same way?


One of the commenters at the end of that Gizmodo
article, points out the difference.

http://gizmodo.com/sadly-this-10tb-h...not-1691245306


"There are three ways to implement SMR data management.

HGST uses host managed, which is perfect as they're targeting
hyperscale with these drives.

Seagate uses drive managed, which works with any OS/file system.
Seagate is going for more wide reaching market penetration where
HGST is focused on top 5-10 guys only.

Incidentally, that large hyperscale market doesn't have a problem
with modifying their stack to accommodate SMR.
"

So it's a conscious design decision, to "let the user"
write the handler. In the case of the HGST product.

Paul
  #10  
Old March 14th 15, 05:37 PM posted to atl.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage
(PeteCresswell)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 317
Default 10TB Hard Drive, can't even be accessed by modern OS's yet!

Per Drew:
Why would a home user need 10,000 gigabytes of storage? By the time you
fill it something new would come along or it would die first.


Movies and recorded TV.

My movies are on a 10-TB NAS box (six 3-TB drives w/redundancy so that 2
of them can fail without losing data) and my recorded TV is on 3 local
2-TB drives attached to my 24-7 PC.

The reasons for the local drives are that I don't want to spend more
money on a second NAS box, and I consider recorded TV to be expendable
so a failure would not be a big deal.
--
Pete Cresswell
 




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