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#21
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ASRock motherboards OK?
Flasherly wrote:
AMDs can afford now to be almost an indulgence, also the first time I've kept two computers running simultaneously, both a same-rated AMD and Intel, similarly placed and manufactured same branded Gigabyte MBs, both having been run round the clock and never turned off approaching a decade. Icing for the pound cake, as it were. Yes, for the number of hours we run these things, the cost of the hardware is not that significant (overall, I pay alot more to my ISP!). So I splurge a little. I rather have a fast computer than a fast car anyway! ; ) |
#22
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ASRock motherboards OK?
On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 00:55:41 -0500, Bill
wrote: Yes, for the number of hours we run these things, the cost of the hardware is not that significant (overall, I pay alot more to my ISP!). So I splurge a little. I rather have a fast computer than a fast car anyway! ; ) A personal choice also better, that it should offer with the right selection longer durability over the years -- better products from more rugged components. Combined with the move to handhelds, cloud and remote computing, computers as an industry has changed. More of limited crowd, I'd think, with an interest to learn to build, harness and explore a "source-assembled" computer, when it's easier a given convenience from the remote-device interface of a service-[out]sourced computer. Not a small feat to have obtained the means to say you can run a source-assembled well, over a wider range of programs, autonomously more a focus of individual specialty. Certain segments of the presently industry pointedly call that "your father's computer" -- of course they'd like the profits by turning that into "one size fits all" subscription programs, standardized and centralized off a remote server. |
#23
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ASRock motherboards OK?
Flasherly wrote:
Certain segments of the presently industry pointedly call that "your father's computer" -- of course they'd like the profits by turning that into "one size fits all" subscription programs, standardized and centralized off a remote server. Nope, I don't have an IPhone (and I hate ITunes!) : ) |
#24
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ASRock motherboards OK?
On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 16:47:15 -0500, Bill
wrote: Nope, I don't have an IPhone (and I hate ITunes!) : ) Oh...I periodically check a what-if I wanted to root a cheap handheld along or possibly a Raspberry Pi. . .think just occasionally about it at the national WiFi distribution centres, such as McDonalds, when watching McDonald's staff time someone -- obviously with budgetry concerns and a backback with a limited computer setup -- to 15 minute of congeniality at seat-time. Or so says a sign with writing on the wall. Nowhere near the clarity or precision, of course, on that AMD FX-8350 Black Ed Vishera 8-Core 4.0 GHz, I evidently mistook to mentioned. Now, I can't believe I actually reduced that to the lowest-draw, 95-watt available Vishera, still with a retail heatsink, a suitable model Gigabyte mother to populate with 2G. All for a disturbing price shy of $175. Even mentioning it now has my finger itching to pull the charge-it button. Thanks a lot guys. |
#25
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ASRock motherboards OK?
On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 2:34:12 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
Anybody here have experience with ASRock? Good, bad or indifferent? Larc I only have one of their motherboards. Generally the hardware is decent. The BIOS on mine was a bit lacking, but at the time, there were some legal issues (lawyers) which were causing the company to not fix the BIOS properly. A guy in Germany fixed the BIOS, and I flashed that in and was happy after that. (Working EIST...) Asrock usually has a different mix of connectors than an Asus board, so that's one of the things you might spot when buying one. I think mine had two PS/2 connectors at the time, which is what I was looking for. One of my pet peeves today would be "is the Vcore heatsink big enough" ? I see a lot of fairly tiny heatsinks out there. And my last purchased motherboard, that's about the only thing holding it back from being a great motherboard. Is a ****ty Vcore heatsink choice. I never gave it a thought before I bought it, but once it overheated, I could immediately see what a dope I had been. For not reviewing that before purchase. If I'd noticed that, I probably would have rejected that one, and spent another $100 on a better motherboard. Paul Well Paul saved me the effort of a separate thread. I logged in today to 'complain' about this old 2007 vintage ASRock mobo: // asrock conroe1333-d667 Winbond W83627EHF Brand- American megatrends Inc Version- P1.80 Date- 12/10/2007 The Board is Asrock Conroe1333-D667 Chipset- Intel i945G/GZ Rev. A2 Southbridge-Intel 82801GB(ICH7/R) LPCIO Winbond- W83627EHF http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Conro...p?cat=Download // My complain is somewhat trivial --high temperatures reported for the mobo--but may relate to what Paul is saying about the heatsink (I'm not sure, but I noticed somebody else complaining about this ten year old mobo in that it had high temperatures on Tom's Hardware site, about 9 years ago): when I run the Open Hardware Monitor 0.8.0 beta version (freeware, works good) it has as a reported temperature as follows (note the --!!!!!! temp) : ///////////////////// Operating System: Microsoft Windows NT 10.0.14393.0 Process Type: 32-Bit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sensors | +- ConRoe1333-D667 (/mainboard) | | | +- Winbond W83627EHF (/lpc/w83627ehf) ) | | +- Voltage #10 : 1.6 1.584 1.608 (/lpc/w83627ehf/voltage/9) | | +- CPU : 32 30.5 35.5 (/lpc/w83627ehf/temperature/0) | | +- Auxiliary : 44.5 42 96 --!!!!!! /lpc/w83627ehf/temperature/1) | | +- System : 33 30 35 (/lpc/w83627ehf/temperature/2) | | +- CPU Fan : 2136.08 2136.08 2163.46 //////////////////////// Apparently this is 'normal" (from replies to a guy on Tom's Hardware), but it confused me since I was having problems, the system was acting funny on the screen, flickering, going black, then back to normal, and over and over, until after a few days I started getting BSOD, more and more (and annoyingly Windows 10 was asking if I wanted to reset the PC, which is bad advice IMO if you have a hardware problem). Of course I had backed up on an external drive my data and mirror imaged my drives. It turns out it was a old bad graphics card from 2007, a counterfeit "Nvidia", which I'll post separately on. But what confused me was the high temps on this mobo. Question for Paul: what would high temps do on a mobo? Give an unstable system? This "Thai" cheap core 2 duo tower always had quirks in it, and I blame the cheap mobo (and cheap components, which over the years I have replaced, not just the cheap mechanical HDD with SSDs, but also several power supplies, but so far no 'blown capacitors' as far as I can visually inspect).. RL |
#26
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ASRock motherboards OK?
RayLopez99 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 2:34:12 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote: Anybody here have experience with ASRock? Good, bad or indifferent? Larc I only have one of their motherboards. Generally the hardware is decent. The BIOS on mine was a bit lacking, but at the time, there were some legal issues (lawyers) which were causing the company to not fix the BIOS properly. A guy in Germany fixed the BIOS, and I flashed that in and was happy after that. (Working EIST...) Asrock usually has a different mix of connectors than an Asus board, so that's one of the things you might spot when buying one. I think mine had two PS/2 connectors at the time, which is what I was looking for. One of my pet peeves today would be "is the Vcore heatsink big enough" ? I see a lot of fairly tiny heatsinks out there. And my last purchased motherboard, that's about the only thing holding it back from being a great motherboard. Is a ****ty Vcore heatsink choice. I never gave it a thought before I bought it, but once it overheated, I could immediately see what a dope I had been. For not reviewing that before purchase. If I'd noticed that, I probably would have rejected that one, and spent another $100 on a better motherboard. Paul Well Paul saved me the effort of a separate thread. I logged in today to 'complain' about this old 2007 vintage ASRock mobo: // asrock conroe1333-d667 Winbond W83627EHF Brand- American megatrends Inc Version- P1.80 Date- 12/10/2007 The Board is Asrock Conroe1333-D667 Chipset- Intel i945G/GZ Rev. A2 Southbridge-Intel 82801GB(ICH7/R) LPCIO Winbond- W83627EHF http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Conro...p?cat=Download // My complain is somewhat trivial --high temperatures reported for the mobo--but may relate to what Paul is saying about the heatsink (I'm not sure, but I noticed somebody else complaining about this ten year old mobo in that it had high temperatures on Tom's Hardware site, about 9 years ago): when I run the Open Hardware Monitor 0.8.0 beta version (freeware, works good) it has as a reported temperature as follows (note the --!!!!!! temp) : ///////////////////// Operating System: Microsoft Windows NT 10.0.14393.0 Process Type: 32-Bit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sensors | +- ConRoe1333-D667 (/mainboard) | | | +- Winbond W83627EHF (/lpc/w83627ehf) ) | | +- Voltage #10 : 1.6 1.584 1.608 (/lpc/w83627ehf/voltage/9) | | +- CPU : 32 30.5 35.5 (/lpc/w83627ehf/temperature/0) | | +- Auxiliary : 44.5 42 96 --!!!!!! /lpc/w83627ehf/temperature/1) | | +- System : 33 30 35 (/lpc/w83627ehf/temperature/2) | | +- CPU Fan : 2136.08 2136.08 2163.46 //////////////////////// Apparently this is 'normal" (from replies to a guy on Tom's Hardware), but it confused me since I was having problems, the system was acting funny on the screen, flickering, going black, then back to normal, and over and over, until after a few days I started getting BSOD, more and more (and annoyingly Windows 10 was asking if I wanted to reset the PC, which is bad advice IMO if you have a hardware problem). Of course I had backed up on an external drive my data and mirror imaged my drives. It turns out it was a old bad graphics card from 2007, a counterfeit "Nvidia", which I'll post separately on. But what confused me was the high temps on this mobo. Question for Paul: what would high temps do on a mobo? Give an unstable system? This "Thai" cheap core 2 duo tower always had quirks in it, and I blame the cheap mobo (and cheap components, which over the years I have replaced, not just the cheap mechanical HDD with SSDs, but also several power supplies, but so far no 'blown capacitors' as far as I can visually inspect). RL It could be programmed or recognized improperly. The hardware monitor can support thermistors or diode sensors. The conversion table is different for the two cases. If you set it wrong, you get ridiculous temperatures. The same happens, if a channel simply isn't connected to something. You can get 128C or 256C or 255C and so on. And the temperature doesn't move as you use the product. Basically, the sensor channel "rails" because no sensor is connected. ******* The flickering and going to black, would be "VPU Recover". That might be printed on some error message. It usually means a GPU did not respond to a command within a fixed time interval, and the CPU determines the GPU is hung up. And there is code in Windows to restart the video subsystem to try to recover it. If there really is a serious problem, then the problem will occur over and over again. Until, perhaps, the CPU hangs up and no longer responds. ******* If you have high temperatures involved with MOSFETs, they can go into thermal runaway. As they get warmer, the channel resistance rises. The I^2R loss goes up as well. On modern regulator designs, now the CPU is tied into the control loop. And the Intel CPUs actually keep track of power, and they can limit activity based on the measured power. But on the older stuff, which is "more lightly protected", you want to make sure the heatsink didn't fall off the components in the Vcore section. A company won't necessarily use thermal paste, because the mechanical tolerances aren't tight enough. For sloppy fitting components, thermal tape is used. If it is even more sloppy than that, silicon rubber with boron nitride (a thermal conductor) is used to fill the space. This can be especially true, if one heatsink has to touch three ICs. The manufacturer cannot be sure how tall the ICs are (tolerance is poor), so the heatsink is lifted up so it clears the chips, and the thermal rubbery goo is placed between the sink and the chips. So not all heatsinks get the benefit of nice thermal paste. Sometimes, other materials are used, and they don't conduct as well. ******* To answer your question, you're going to have to Google the motherboard model number, and see if someone has figured out where the sensor is, and what the sensor is made of. In some cases, it's a thermistor (with a certain popular value of A,B parameters), and it's located somewhere near the Southbridge. It's easy when someone else figures it out, hard if you have to do it yourself :-) I've never had any success at that "sport". Motherboard picture (Rev.1) http://www.asrock.com/mb/photo/ConRo...20R1.0(L1).jpg Sample of SuperIO with hardware monitor. (Diamond Flower and Itox merged as far as I know, a couple of motherboard companies.) http://www.dfi-itox.com/pages/suppor..._EHG_EF_EG.pdf But even with that info, I can't really be sure where the upper left pin on the Winbond, what that is soldered to. The chip does have three channels, and there is an AUXIN. Paul |
#27
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ASRock motherboards OK?
On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 5:39:04 PM UTC-5, Paul wrote:
To answer your question, you're going to have to Google the motherboard model number, and see if someone has figured out where the sensor is, and what the sensor is made of. In some cases, it's a thermistor (with a certain popular value of A,B parameters), and it's located somewhere near the Southbridge. It's easy when someone else figures it out, hard if you have to do it yourself :-) I've never had any success at that "sport". Motherboard picture (Rev.1) http://www.asrock.com/mb/photo/ConRo...20R1.0(L1).jpg Sample of SuperIO with hardware monitor. (Diamond Flower and Itox merged as far as I know, a couple of motherboard companies.) http://www.dfi-itox.com/pages/suppor..._EHG_EF_EG.pdf But even with that info, I can't really be sure where the upper left pin on the Winbond, what that is soldered to. The chip does have three channels, and there is an AUXIN. Paul OK thanks Paul. From the picture, I did not realize the South Bridge and North Bridge controllers needed such big and fancy passive heat sinks, that's interesting. The South Bridge controller is a different design from the North Bridge, maybe one does more work than the other and gets hotter (the North seems to do more work, but without Googling I don't know). And I see some 'inductors' (the gold 'rings' in the upper right of the mobo), which I understand in electrical engineering should be avoided (integrate, don't differentiate, if you know your calculus and differential equations), since L's are bulkier than C's. RL |
#28
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ASRock motherboards OK?
Flasherly wrote:
Nowhere near the clarity or precision, of course, on that AMD FX-8350 Black Ed Vishera 8-Core 4.0 GHz, I evidently mistook to mentioned. Now, I can't believe I actually reduced that to the lowest-draw, 95-watt available Vishera, still with a retail heatsink, a suitable model Gigabyte mother to populate with 2G. All for a disturbing price shy of $175. Even mentioning it now has my finger itching to pull the charge-it button. Thanks a lot guys. I noticed that Best Buy advertised an Intel "7th Generation" i7-CPU's today, 4.2/4.5 GHz, for about $335. Probably not as good a value as the one you mention above. My gut feeling is that Intel is capable of providing better support if it is needed,but this is probably a non issue. To change the topic slightly, what's the word on those MP2 hard drives (my Gigabyte mainboard could hold one)? Other question: Who's more of a "hardware junkie", the millenials or the people running "your father's computer"? ; ) Cheers, Bill |
#29
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ASRock motherboards OK?
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:25:52 -0500, Bill
wrote: I noticed that Best Buy advertised an Intel "7th Generation" i7-CPU's today, 4.2/4.5 GHz, for about $335. Probably not as good a value as the one you mention above. My gut feeling is that Intel is capable of providing better support if it is needed,but this is probably a non issue. To change the topic slightly, what's the word on those MP2 hard drives (my Gigabyte mainboard could hold one)? Other question: Who's more of a "hardware junkie", the millenials or the people running "your father's computer"? ; ) Cheers, Bill The FX series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...icroprocessors I'd caught a sale on a 125W 8-core Vishera but, looking them over, liked a lower-wattage 95W version. They're 4-yr-old technology, lagging Intel significantly;- there's also a cache issue and "paired cores," not well received -- some so far to claim false advertising, on AMD's part, for a faux 8-core that's essentially a quad. Ratings and benchmarks, however, place the cost of the (8-core) AMD Vishera well up and alongside Intel I-series chips to those Dollar Cost Averaging for flipflops. MP2 drives and new standards. Saw a few slotted $15 PCI-E conversion boards for driving MP2, so it'll likely go back farther aways to older boards than yours. Hardware, rolling, building and running your own, is definitely niche. Always has been. Back in the day, what they had to say about both the soft and hardware, is that it's obfuscating. So Bill Gates came along to fix it. Don't let 'em fool you, though: Computers annoy people -- maybe they just don't say it as much as before. Standards have become smoother and focused -- and the WEB as remote applications from handheld devices is much more a reality. One big social media, evidently, from Trump on down. Dunno, my experience has been here and some of the earliest 1200/2400baud BBS relay systems (FIDO/RIME/Bonnie Anthony/&etc -- transatlantic Britain to USA, mostly). Never owned a handheld device too. |
#30
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ASRock motherboards OK?
Flasherly wrote:
Standards have become smoother and focused -- and the WEB as remote applications from handheld devices is much more a reality. One big social media, evidently, from Trump on down. If it weren't for the "ad-blockers", I'd probably steer clear of the darn thing! |
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