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Temperature Sensing



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 11th 19, 05:02 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Boris[_5_]
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Posts: 294
Default Temperature Sensing

The author has marked this message not to be archived. This post will be deleted on September 25, 2019.

No, this is not homebuilt, but this ng is very active.

This is a Dell Studio XPS 8100, purchased October 2010, running Windows 10,
SP1.

It's an i5 650 running at 3.20 GHz, dual core (Clarkdale). 8 GB DDR3 RAM,
nVidia GeForce 310 512 MB, on a PCI Express x16 slot.

Here's why I'm writing:

I didn't think that this mid-range machine had temperature sensing. But,
Piriform's Speccy reports temperatures on many devices, including CPU, hard
drives, individual cores, and the nVidia card. And, the temperatures are
active. That is. they move up and down (but not by much).

Right now, core 1 is 103F, core 2 is 105F, motherboard 'system' temperature
is 74F, the nVidia GeForce 310 512MB card (PCI Express x16) is at 135F, and
two hard drives are at 97F and 101F,

I have all the technical manuals for this machine, but there's nothing shown
on the motherboard for temperature sensing.

How is sensing done for devices? Each device must register it's own
temperature, and then does each devices connection include a line to report
temperature? If so, then the motherboard has to have the ability to continue
the reporting to software.

Yes? No?

TIA

  #2  
Old September 11th 19, 06:29 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
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Posts: 1,138
Default Temperature Sensing

Boris wrote:
No, this is not homebuilt, but this ng is very active.

This is a Dell Studio XPS 8100, purchased October 2010, running Windows 10,
SP1.

It's an i5 650 running at 3.20 GHz, dual core (Clarkdale). 8 GB DDR3 RAM,
nVidia GeForce 310 512 MB, on a PCI Express x16 slot.

Here's why I'm writing:

I didn't think that this mid-range machine had temperature sensing. But,
Piriform's Speccy reports temperatures on many devices, including CPU, hard
drives, individual cores, and the nVidia card. And, the temperatures are
active. That is. they move up and down (but not by much).

Right now, core 1 is 103F, core 2 is 105F, motherboard 'system' temperature
is 74F, the nVidia GeForce 310 512MB card (PCI Express x16) is at 135F, and
two hard drives are at 97F and 101F,

I have all the technical manuals for this machine, but there's nothing shown
on the motherboard for temperature sensing.

How is sensing done for devices? Each device must register it's own
temperature, and then does each devices connection include a line to report
temperature? If so, then the motherboard has to have the ability to continue
the reporting to software.

Yes? No?

TIA


Your description would involve several hardware subsystems.

Some of the processors have "CoreTemp", where a digital temperature
feature inside the CPU does that measurement.

Before that was invented, many temperature measurements were
done by the "SuperI/O" "hardware monitor section". The SuperI/O chip
supports thermistors as well as "diode" temperature sensors.

Back a bit (in Athlon days), the substrate of the CPU had a diode
put there just to measure temperature. And the two pads from the
CPU ran over to the SuperI/O. And if that channel was set to
"diode mode", you could read the CPU substrate temperature.

Before that, a thermistor was placed below the socket, but
that method suffers too much lag to be effective for
preventing CPU burnout. The diode in the substrate, can
track the CPU silicon shooting up 100 C degrees in a couple of
seconds, if the heatsink strap on the CPU snaps and the
heatsink comes loose. Such an occurrence could kill the CPU.

But today, even without careful digital measurements, the
diode in the CPU is tied into its own THERMTRIP circuit, and
THERMTRIP from the CPU is connected to the ATX main cable
in such a way as to turn off the ATX power supply if the
CPU is too warm. And that happens... instantly, as soon
as the CPU goes above the magic temperature.

So yes, there is a wealth of temperature measurement solutions
in your PC, and more than one program for reading them out.
Speedfan for example, can chart some of those things.

The video card has temperature measurements too, and Speedfan can
probably tell you about that one too. Programs like GPU-Z
can tell you how much power your video card is using.

The hard drive reports temperature, in the SMART table.

Some of the more expensive hard drives, now have a
humidity sensor, but I've not seen a report from anyone,
of such a device actually doing that. (I don't know
what SMART program would be up-to-date enough to
list that sensor.) Such a sensor is not necessary
on Helium-filled drives (which are sealed). The sensor
is also not present on SSD drives.

The sensors are an "ad-hoc collection of random gadgets".
It's not like a centralized authority picks what to measure.
Each person adding a sensor, feels it has some utility I
suppose. It's good to know your CPU temp (because if it
gets too hot, the PC will shut off). But for others, you
could use a portable thermometer to check things out, without
having permanent sensing inside the PC.

Some hard drives have a shock sensor, and if you make
a hard drive warranty return, you could have the return
rejected, if the shock sensor has recorded too high of
a peak value.

Paul
  #3  
Old September 11th 19, 10:38 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,270
Default Temperature Sensing

On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 04:02:12 -0000 (UTC), Boris
wrote:

How is sensing done for devices? Each device must register it's own
temperature, and then does each devices connection include a line to report
temperature? If so, then the motherboard has to have the ability to continue
the reporting to software.

Yes? No?


A reserve I/O address common to industry and hardware would be
standard to the software then doing the reporting. Hence it must be
updated and support the correct address to provide a valid and
existing temperature.

Being an Intel that should be more precise a measure than a somewhat
ambiguous tact AMD since took in reporting offsets to their CPUs.
Although in either case, along with thermal protection given both AMD
and INTEL, a measure of confidence from 3rd-party software sensors
reporting is one arguably incidental to advanced measures the CPU
regulates itself by.

You can find Intel's spec sheet or discussions relating your CPU. A
DELL, beyond reasonably following a specification build, needn't
concern itself with a peripheral layer of technicality not within its
market focus. Wherein which, its machines perform under warranty
satisfactorily to its customers;- Including standard support for most
standard software that expects an address to peripherals, and their
standards for diagnostics reporting, temperature, no differently than
reputable, standard MB brand makes across the industry.

IOW, I've bought MB brand names and assembled them into machines,
except they had no markings on them to indicate what they were. They
were, instead, DELL motherboards, which DELL didn't plan for and had
to dump for pennies on the dollar. DELL doesn't manufacturer
motherboards, but buys them from brand names the same as you or I when
we buy a "boxed or packaged" motherboard. They come specially
"unbranded" for DELL because DELL is contracting in huge amounts for
their customer base. And DELL, perhaps the Pacific Rim manufacturer,
would deem it unsightly should you pop your DELL top, only to see such
as an ASUS brand name conspicuously placed before you.

They use "in house" assessment to determine what different brands are
needed for different marketing points, no doubt to include some
limited degree of customization. As might Hewlett Packard. You're
buying preassembled on a "inhouse" build integrity, which supersedes
all else of course for the one-source warranty and whatever else in
contract guarantees or technical support.

It's when software doesn't work, a point moreover a technicality now
than before, that one has to focus on when considering adjusting for
hardware and software compliance. Eg., buying a MB for a W10 box that
a MB manufacturer may have nothing whatsoever to do with, other than
W10, when, in fact, the same MB may "unofficially" support
[un]supported software, such as an *NIX variant or, mostly, nothing
earlier than W7. Something AMD contravened in their own "clout", to
have written their own Microsoft W7 RYZEN drivers in temporary
negation of Microsoft's practice and the legality it has established
in deference to Intel, that only new Intel processors will run only
Windows 10. Microsoft's marketing of the "last OS you will ever own",
hence the "unofficial" aspect of care in regarding a MB for, say, such
as a potential LINUX install;- Offhand and beyond and perhaps by far
from Piriform's Speccy, which in some likelihood is to say kiss it
goodbye, if not put your trust in native CPU thermal protection
throttling. Obsolescence, technically, can at times come in more than
flavor, depending on whose advantage it may be to promote it.

(On the other hand, had a SATA cable in the CPU's heatsink fan on a
4GHz AMD3+ quad, stuck in there for a day, and it's since apparently
none the worse, despite, by a time I gotten around to noticing things
were getting strange, that the MB I/O was reporting (BIOS TEMP READ)
the CPU, maxed at 100C, or boiling!)
 




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