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win 98 installation
In article , Franc Zabkar wrote:
I'm just following up this post to c.s.i.p.h.s (with the OP's permission). Would anyone care to comment? On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 16:05:29 -0400, "MEB" meb@not put finger to keyboard and composed: IF the disk had NT5/XP NTFS used on it: BEFORE YOU ATTEMPT TO REMOVE XP NTFS with a DOS program or using ANY DOS techniques;;;; [SNIP long list of standard techniques] http://www.microsoft.com/windows/reskits/webresources NOTE: even using these Microsoft techniques; NT5 - XP NTFS may not be fully removed from the hard drive. Microsoft has numerous legal disclaimers associated with the use of this file system, warning that it may be unremovable or make the disk unusable.. Sounds like another reason to not migrate to XP, not that I was planning to anyway. Vista neither. Who would try using a Microsoft product to remove a Microsoft product anyway - you'd never know what the motivations of the code writers were ; for example, would it be in Microsoft's interests to have people think that they might damage hardware by removing Microsoft software products? Yes, because it would add to the barriers against migration. Therefore Microsoft project managers have a potential motivation to make it difficult or impossible to remove Microsoft products. Windows bootable hard disk (any version) to be used for some other system. No need for and concerns about recovering data from the disc. Drop it into a machine (preferably directly attached to the motherboard, not in an external case), boot the machine with a Linux (or BSDx for that matter), run fdisk/ cfdisk/ [the corresponding BSDx command], strip out and rearrange the partitioning the way you want it for the disk's intended use. Format partitions. Shutdown and take the disk away to it's new use. Has anyone ever had this procedure fail on non-broken hardware? Why was the /mbr switch of DOS fdisk not documented for so many years? -- Aidan Karley, FGS Aberdeen, Scotland Written at Wed, 06 Sep 2006 09:01 +0100, but posted later. |
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win 98 installation
Franc Zabkar wrote:
I'm just following up this post to c.s.i.p.h.s (with the OP's permission). Would anyone care to comment? Its pure drivel if you just want to wipe the drive and start over. clearhdd and a host of others will wipe the drive fine. MEB meb@not wrote IF the disk had NT5/XP NTFS used on it: BEFORE YOU ATTEMPT TO REMOVE XP NTFS with a DOS program or using ANY DOS techniques;;;; DON'T!!!! YOU WILL NOT BE SUCCESSFUL unless you are an expert at doing so, AND have the proper tools for disk manipulation and recovery!!! DO NOT USE OLD DOS TECHNIQUES TO ATTEMPT REMOVAL OF NT5/XP NTFS. This information is faulty and does not fully address the variables associated with the NT5 - XP NTFS file system: it's encryption and compression, hidden directories/folders, partitions (which the system creates automatically) within partitions, "on the fly" CHS changes, and other factors. Put the disk back into the XP machine (if pulled from a different machine), Note the below for attempting complete removal.. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/303661/en-us 303661 - How to uninstall Windows XP and revert to a previous operating system http://support.microsoft.com/kb/303160/ 303160 - Uninstall Not Available Error Message When You Upgrade to Windows XP http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308233/ 308233 - How to start the Windows XP uninstallation process from a command prompt http://support.microsoft.com/kb/312569/ 312569- How to manually start the removal process to remove Windows XP http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314052/ 314052 - How to manually remove Windows XP and then restore Windows 95, Windows 98, or Windows Millennium Edition http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307654/ 307654 - How to install and use the Recovery Console in Windows XP http://support.microsoft.com/kb/305595/ 305595 - How To Create a Boot Disk for an NTFS or FAT Partition in Windows XP KB119467 Q103049 KB122221 http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pro...c28621675.mspx The above discusses certain variables, tools, and other which might be of use for any NT5 - XP NTFS hard disk problems. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/reskits/webresources NOTE: even using these Microsoft techniques; NT5 - XP NTFS may not be fully removed from the hard drive. Microsoft has numerous legal disclaimers associated with the use of this file system, warning that it may be unremovable or make the disk unusable.. |
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win 98 installation
(I'll place this under yours "Aidan Karley" [via demon.net] as you direct to
the Linux environment [see Knoppix reference below, and other references in other presentations of mine], which I have at times. This isn't specifically directed to you though, so you need not respond unless you wish to.): It would be instrumental to the discussion to give prior background; again, I'll not partake in the direct discussion (though once again I have), however, this might bring more information to the thread from those that do. I previously placed certain tools which might be of use, relating to hard drives, such as WINHEX, and other "recovery" tools, which could have been used to discredit my presentations (which I thought was rather generous as one rarely sees this done), or support them. Feel free to make your comments on any tools or information I have directed to. DO NOT expect my response. More "firewood", if you will, for the discussion. Note: there are deliberate "leading" issues included. The ""normal" you don't get this or that"" without supporting material isn't exactly useful. It would also be condusive: to include any forensic evidence concerning your presentations; and, links to programs (if you reference any); and, links to your sites or others which might contain relevant analysis relating to your presentations, preferably complete forensic material and the program used to produce it. I will include these in my web pages (with full credit given to you and/or links to your site/info) unless you state or indicate otherwise, provided, of course, they are useful. The intend is to place forensic analysis regarding certain tools and techniques used for "dealing" with the NT5 - XP NTFS systems and hard disks [fdisking, formatting, wiping, erasing, clearing, (you get the picture)], which have been placed upon the web. Consider along the lines of debunking "urban legend/myth" via technical data. Note: I have differentiated various "Windows" OSs elsewhere, e.g. 2000, 2003, XP, etc., though this particular discussion obviously related to a XP OS disk and installing Windows 98 after it's removal (a "how to") [microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion]. BACKGROUND: From: "MEB" meb@not References: Subject: Unable to install Win98 SE Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 04:37:11 -0400 Keywords: hard disk problems,XP disk failures,using former XP hard disks,Windows setup errors,dual boot MBR problems,hard disk recovery,hardware problems Lines: 256 Message-ID: Newsgroups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion Path: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl Xref: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion:811488 ---- "AuldPhart" wrote in message ... | On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 01:40:39 -0400, "MEB" meb@not wrote: | | | I see PCR finally is working WITH you, so I'll step back again.. just a few | comments below.. | | | "AuldPhart" wrote in message | .. . | | On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 01:39:59 -0400, "MEB" meb@not | wrote: | | | | Hmm, no one seems to have answered the actual questions so, here's some | for | | you.. | | | | First question: | | | | How big is the drive? If over 137 gig, then foobar. | | | | The drive is 60 gig. | | As directed elsewhere, make your "Windows" partition small for faster | scandisk and defrag... | | | | | Second: | | Is the Bios set to AUTO for your drives, or is it hard set/prior | detected? | | Set to Auto detect. | | | | It is set to Auto Detect. | | Good.. | | | | | Third: | | Did you format the drive through XP or with the old fdisk and format | routine | | from DOS days. | | If XP: reformat the drive via DOS boot disk. Scandisk it afterwards. | | | | I do the old fdisk and format. | | | | Fourth: | | If it was previously used for something else AND you just deleted the | stuff | | and did not re-format through DOS, did you scandisk afterwards? | | | | Yes, It was previously used for something else. That's why I did | | the old fdisk and format. FAT 32. | | Good. Wasn't XP NTFS was it? | | Yes it was, however, I did delete NON-DOS partitions. Had to modify this as I didn't send it immediately, and others elsewhere are helping, look at the end for some info.. ----- original Make SURE that those that help you realise it was previously "XP" NTFS with it's "HIDDEN PROTECTED/SYSTEM AREAS" (MFT Records[$Mft], Hex17 Hidden NTFS partitions, NTFS backup boot superblock, etc. - then of course dynamic drive brings it's own problems), which MAY leave alot of problems residual on the disk; which might now be "hard coded" and/or, since you have supposedly wiped the old boot record, essentially "un-relocatable bad sectors".. Scandisk likes to class them into "bad sectors" and leave your disk severely limited (S.M.A.R.T. failures) due to fdisk apparent failure to remove or even recognize them.. It's not unusual to find several hundred megs of "lost" hard drive space within a "mis-handled disk". I would venture to say, that many people don't realise they have lost some of their disk, since SMART replaces (or attempts to replace) most of it,, maybe just a loss of a "head" or un-explained early drive failure.. Microsoft appears to recommend Diskprobe, fsutil, Chkdsk, Dmdiag, Dskpart, Fixmbr, Ftonline, for attempting to deal with XP/NT5 NTFS disks. NTFS writes a duplicate of the boot sector in the following location: At the end of the volume. On volumes formatted with Windows XP Professional, Windows 2000, and Windows NT 4.0. At the logical center of the volume. Which makes those "tools" which re-write/recover by using just the MBR and old duplicate location, obsolete.. err, at least for XP/NT5. So, as your the only one with access to the disk, you might want to check the disk with some tools I mentioned elsewhere.. "MEB" meb@not wrote in message ... nothing will get me out of dos - microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion; and it's addendum. Or in short: hard drive tools and recovery http://www.cgsecurity.org/ Testdisk can be used to recover old MBR from backups on the hard disk and recovery may work from there with this tool or others.. http://www.cgsecurity.org/testdisk-6.3.dos.zip comes with some basic and extended info,, http://www.hdat2.com/ hdat2 - DOS hard drive testing, diagnostics, and repair tool. Supports PATA [(older disks) ATA, IDE, EIDE, DMA, UDMA] SATA, SCSI, RAID, and USB drives Pick up the hdat2en_4_51.pdf Hard Drive Guru http://www.hddguru.com MHDD - hard drive management English documentation has been moved to http://mhdd.com English FAQ: http://mhddsoftware.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4261 Also some "nice" tools for 2000/XP For some info: http://www.geocities.com/thestarman3...br/FDISK98.htm Additional tools I have found useful are aefdisk and Super fdisk. http://www.aefdisk.com/ http://www.ptdd.com/ [pick up the data-recovery-book.pdf while your there] Do the eventual re-format (if you get it fixed) without the /s.. Some reference materials: KB119467 Q103049 KB122221 http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pro...c28621675.mspx The above discusses certain variables, tools, and other which might be of use for any hard disk problems. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/reskits/webresources Now I really should fade to black and let the experts help you [ I'm gonna look really stupid when someone comes up with an easy "fix", then again, you might just "recover" lost clusters if you make the effort..] Addendum/after the fact-- Oh, let them know in the other part of these threads what type of mouse, Logitech perhaps?... see you tried it with a different disk so perhaps look at potential hardware issues.. cable seating, dirty contacts, video card partial unseating, stuff like that You've got at least three good people helping you now,, good luck [was going to delete the HD info as I'd written this originally a few hours ago, but what the heck, might be useful to someone...] [slashed] | | | | | Description of the Windows 95, Windows 98, and Windows Me Setup Switches | | (Q186111) | | Computer Appears to Stop Responding During Windows 98 Setup (Q191391) | | Windows 98 Setup Stops Responding While Trying to Play a Sound (Q191257) | | Windows 98 Setup Loses Access to Source Drive (Q191827) | | Computer Hangs When You Restart for the First Time During Setup (Q193156) | | USB Devices May Not Work in Windows 98 Second Edition (Q240075) [slash] | As stated, PCR has you now.. his ball now, I will be in the background with | the others.. | | | I thank you for your replies. | | | "AuldPhart" wrote in message | | .. . | | Hello, I will try to keep this as short and consise as I can. | | | | Up until about 6 months ago, I was running WIN98 SE. I | | decided to try out XP & SP2, and found that I like it pretty | | well. I installed the XP drivers for my ancient ATI All-In-Wonder | | Pro 128 AGP vid card. Since then, I have been unable to | | perform video capture using VirtualDub. | | | | I decided to install WIN98SE on another drive to get this | | ability back. When I try to install, I can get all of the files | | loaded on the drive in the WIN98 folder I created. When | | it comes time to install the OS, The mouse cursor freezes | | at the "Welcome to windows install" window. I borrowed | | a friends WIN98 SE disc, and the same thing happens. | | I have not changed a thing in regards to hardware since | | I last ran WIN98 SE. | | | | Any ideas? Thank you. | | AP | | | | P.E.T.A. People Eating Tasty Animals | | | | Suprisingly, Microsoft doesn't control the whole world YET, so use what | you | | want for access. | | Microsoft RARELY follows standards for any of it's software. As long as | | there are easily lead people around, Microsoft will dominate, and it's | users | | will claim it is the best, not knowing any better, regardless of other | | indications. It does no good to try to tell them. | | -- | | AP | | P.E.T.A. People Eating Tasty Animals | | AND FOR THE GROUP various threads: | | Yeah, the governments of world have placed us in an unstable state right | now, but to use THIS news group to further bias and prejudice, or some form | of discrimination, or other "personal choice" agenda is hardly condusive to | what this group supposedly is for. | | Point taken. | | The us above, is not just the "western world" or the supposed | "democracies", or Christians/Muslims verses whomever,, because no matter | where on this SMALL planet you live; all of us wish for the same things: a | good life; to be left alone; and the ability to raise our children in a | better world.. it is always the "governments" [or those who wish to be such] | that direct us to kill each other en mass .. we can be "cannon fodder" for | their use, or we can be cautious and vigilant of what we are "directed to". | [Sorry to get on my soapbox everybody, but this needs said] | | -- | | AP | | P.E.T.A. People Eating Tasty Animals | | | MEB ------------------- From: "MEB" meb@not References: 64d1f65552a19@uwe Subject: nothing will get me out of dos Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 20:35:09 -0400 Lines: 81 Message-ID: Newsgroups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion Path: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl Xref: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion:811178 ----- That is a definite problem.. though contrary to many beliefs after a format, you may be able to recover the disk. You apparently have a DOS prompt so the system (or a system) is still available. Others may suggest various other recovery aspects.. If you have installed nothing (or little) to the disk then it may be time to look into recovery software... dozens available for free.. Just a couple I have tested for DOS.. Might try: hard drive tools and recovery http://www.cgsecurity.org/ Testdisk can be used to recover old MBR from backups on the hard disk and recovery may work from there with this tool or others.. http://www.cgsecurity.org/testdisk-6.3.dos.zip BootitNG http://www.bootitng.com/bootitng.html http://www.bootitng.com/downloads/bootitng.zip Do a "seek" in this newsgroup for "bootitng" for the numerous posts concerning it's use. also MBRWork available at addons site Hard Drive Guru http://www.hddguru.com MHDD - hard drive management English documentation has been moved to http://mhdd.com English FAQ: http://mhddsoftware.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4261 Several Tools - http://www.sadevelopment.com/index.htm http://www.sadevelopment.com/more_ldt.htm#repairmbr Large Drive Tools - http://www.sadevelopment.com/more_download.htm If you have installed anything to the disk then you may get only a partial recovery. Save what you feel necessary and re-install WIN98 afterwards.. After the installation, you may be able to recover other files in Windows Get back data for DOS and NT http://www.runtime.org/ WINHEX and forensic recovery tools http://www.x-ways.net/ If it is essential material and you ABSOLUTELY have to recover your data, then the check for data recovery professionals like: http://www.data-recovery-labs.com/ http://www.drivelabs.com/ http://www.cgsecurity.org/ ------- MEB "dinsdale" u25337@uwe wrote in message news:64d1f65552a19@uwe... my son unfortunately did a format disk on my old computer, which had Win98 installed on it. No matter what I do, when I boot it up, I can't get away from the dos prompt. Even when I hit safe mode, after holding F8 during startup, it just goes directly back to the command prompt. I have a 98 startup floppy,,,is there a way to reload Windows onto this system? --------------- From: "MEB" meb@not References: 64d1f65552a19@uwe Subject: nothing will get me out of dos Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 02:26:28 -0400 Lines: 124 Message-ID: Newsgroups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion Path: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl Xref: TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion:811202 ----- Darn, forgot a DOS tool I use regularly, http://www.hdat2.com/ hdat2 - DOS hard drive testing, diagnostics, and repair tool. Supports PATA [(older disks) ATA, IDE, EIDE, DMA, UDMA] SATA, SCSI, RAID, and USB drives Or if you have a cdrom attached: Knoppix contains tools to recover hard disks - full virtual system boot CDROM (also a little taste of the Linux environment for those interested) and you can run others from floppy or in it's virtual environment. http://www.knoppix.org/ Various other recovery/hard drive tools are available on hundreds of sites, such as: http://www.mdgx.com/ which are dispersed on the site, one page of which is http://www.mdgx.com/secrets.htm http://www.forensics.nl/tools http://www.grc.com/ Well I think that's enough free advertising for them... ?8~[ ----------- MEB _______________ "MEB" meb@not wrote in message ... That is a definite problem.. though contrary to many beliefs after a format, you may be able to recover the disk. You apparently have a DOS prompt so the system (or a system) is still available. Others may suggest various other recovery aspects.. If you have installed nothing (or little) to the disk then it may be time to look into recovery software... dozens available for free.. Just a couple I have tested for DOS.. Might try: hard drive tools and recovery http://www.cgsecurity.org/ Testdisk can be used to recover old MBR from backups on the hard disk and recovery may work from there with this tool or others.. http://www.cgsecurity.org/testdisk-6.3.dos.zip BootitNG http://www.bootitng.com/bootitng.html http://www.bootitng.com/downloads/bootitng.zip Do a "seek" in this newsgroup for "bootitng" for the numerous posts concerning it's use. also MBRWork available at addons site Hard Drive Guru http://www.hddguru.com MHDD - hard drive management English documentation has been moved to http://mhdd.com English FAQ: http://mhddsoftware.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4261 Several Tools - http://www.sadevelopment.com/index.htm http://www.sadevelopment.com/more_ldt.htm#repairmbr Large Drive Tools - http://www.sadevelopment.com/more_download.htm If you have installed anything to the disk then you may get only a partial recovery. Save what you feel necessary and re-install WIN98 afterwards.. After the installation, you may be able to recover other files in Windows Get back data for DOS and NT http://www.runtime.org/ WINHEX and forensic recovery tools http://www.x-ways.net/ If it is essential material and you ABSOLUTELY have to recover your data, then the check for data recovery professionals like: http://www.data-recovery-labs.com/ http://www.drivelabs.com/ http://www.cgsecurity.org/ -- MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/ "Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth. Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if nothing had happen." Winston Churchill Or to put it another way: Morpheus can offer you the two pills; but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one. _______________ "dinsdale" u25337@uwe wrote in message news:64d1f65552a19@uwe... my son unfortunately did a format disk on my old computer, which had Win98 installed on it. No matter what I do, when I boot it up, I can't get away from the dos prompt. Even when I hit safe mode, after holding F8 during startup, it just goes directly back to the command prompt. I have a 98 startup floppy,,,is there a way to reload Windows onto this system? "Aidan Karley" .group wrote in message s.group... | In article , Franc Zabkar wrote: | I'm just following up this post to c.s.i.p.h.s (with the OP's | permission). Would anyone care to comment? | | On Mon, 4 Sep 2006 16:05:29 -0400, "MEB" meb@not | put finger to keyboard and composed: | | IF the disk had NT5/XP NTFS used on it: | | BEFORE YOU ATTEMPT TO REMOVE XP NTFS with a DOS program or using ANY DOS | techniques;;;; | | [SNIP long list of standard techniques] | | http://www.microsoft.com/windows/reskits/webresources | | NOTE: even using these Microsoft techniques; NT5 - XP NTFS may not be fully | removed from the hard drive. Microsoft has numerous legal disclaimers | associated with the use of this file system, warning that it may be | unremovable or make the disk unusable.. | | Sounds like another reason to not migrate to XP, not that I was planning | to anyway. Vista neither. | | Who would try using a Microsoft product to remove a Microsoft product | anyway - you'd never know what the motivations of the code writers were ; for | example, would it be in Microsoft's interests to have people think that they | might damage hardware by removing Microsoft software products? Yes, because it | would add to the barriers against migration. Therefore Microsoft project | managers have a potential motivation to make it difficult or impossible to | remove Microsoft products. | | Windows bootable hard disk (any version) to be used for some other | system. No need for and concerns about recovering data from the disc. Drop it | into a machine (preferably directly attached to the motherboard, not in an | external case), boot the machine with a Linux (or BSDx for that matter), run | fdisk/ cfdisk/ [the corresponding BSDx command], strip out and rearrange the | partitioning the way you want it for the disk's intended use. Format | partitions. Shutdown and take the disk away to it's new use. | Has anyone ever had this procedure fail on non-broken hardware? | | Why was the /mbr switch of DOS fdisk not documented for so many years? | | -- | Aidan Karley, FGS | Aberdeen, Scotland | Written at Wed, 06 Sep 2006 09:01 +0100, but posted later. | -- MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com/ BLOG http://peoplescounsel.spaces.live.com/ Public Notice or the "real world" "Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across truth. Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business as if nothing had happen." Winston Churchill Or to put it another way: Morpheus can offer you the two pills; but only you can choose whether you take the red pill or the blue one. _______________ |
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