Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables

I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire
system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced
my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables
with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter "
error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my
amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then
I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error.
I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything
to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable
cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of
reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sam

reset CMOS that should set things right- happened to me NUMEROUS times and
thats why I say that, unless you pay for GOOD rounded cables they are not
worth it. (expensive doesn't gaurentee success either, I have gotten serious
speaker noise from many of them)


"SAMF2000" wrote in message
ups.com...
I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire
system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced
my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables
with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter "
error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my
amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then
I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error.
I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything
to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable
cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of
reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sam

What do you mean by "reset CMOS"?

What makes you conclude that the cylindrical
IDE cables caused noise to be heard in your
PC's audio speakers?

*TimDaniels*

"JAD" wrote:
reset CMOS that should set things right- happened to me NUMEROUS
times and thats why I say that, unless you pay for GOOD rounded cables
they are not worth it. (expensive doesn't gaurentee success either, I have
gotten serious speaker noise from many of them)


"SAMF2000" wrote:
I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire
system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced
my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables
with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter "
error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my
amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then
I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error.
I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything
to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable
cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of
reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sam

Obviously, it wasn't the round cables because the problem
persisted when you reverted to ribbon cables. It may have
been the *process* of diddling in your PC's case. Have you
tried switching to a different power cable? How old is your
PC - your lithium battery might be run down or covered with
an oxide layer

*TimDaniels*

"SAMF2000" wrote:
I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire
system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced
my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables
with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter "
error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my
amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB.
Then I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error.
I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything
to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a
cable cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of
reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sam

"Timothy Daniels" wrote in message
...
What do you mean by "reset CMOS"?

jumper the reset terminals and clear the cmos


What makes you conclude that the cylindrical
IDE cables caused noise to be heard in your
PC's audio speakers?

because when i removed them, the noise went away, it was bleed through, like
you would hear when tuning an AM radio near the PSU. Also noise from mouse
movement while using them(round cables).



*TimDaniels*

"JAD" wrote:
reset CMOS that should set things right- happened to me NUMEROUS
times and thats why I say that, unless you pay for GOOD rounded cables
they are not worth it. (expensive doesn't gaurentee success either, I
have
gotten serious speaker noise from many of them)


"SAMF2000" wrote:
I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire
system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced
my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables
with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter "
error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my
amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then
I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error.
I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything
to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable
cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of
reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sam

SAMF2000 wrote:

I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire
system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced
my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables
with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter "
error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my
amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then
I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error.
I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything
to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable
cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of
reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sam

The problem with rounded cables is called "crosstalk".

If you look at the cable design, the 80 wire cable looks like
this.

. x . x . x . x .

The X character is a grounded wire, while the "." wires carry a
signal. The ground wire provides a reference for the signal,
and makes the cable look closer to a controlled impedance. It
improves the signal quality. The extra spacing between the
"." wires reduces interference from one "." wire on the other
"." wires on either side.

Now, roll up the cable, so that one layer of wire is
adjacent to the other. A small portion of the cross section
would look like this. Depending on how tightly the cable
is rolled, the displacement between layers, could take
on just about any relationship.

. x . x . x . x .
. x . x . x . x .

Now, some of the "." wires are getting closer to one
another, than they would be if the cable was kept flat.
The close signals interfere with one another, and sometimes
a "1" signal gets switched to a "0" signal. If the disk is
doing write operations, then corrupted data can get written
to the disk. (Note - you can reduce the interference, by
dropping down to ATA-33 or lower. Not that anyone would want
to do that, when perfectly good flat cables are available.)

A round cable must be fabricated, so that the interference
is no worse than it would be in a perfectly flat cable. I've
never heard of a standard for round cables, so there is nothing
to spell out good practice for the companies who make them.
(Although, if they have any engineers working for them,
they should know about this problem.)

You can see a product here, where they chop the cable into
sections, then lay the sections on top of one another. The
X's are offset, so each layer is shifted a precise amount.
The X's form a "box" around the dots. If I had to make a
cable, this is the way I would do it (from a theory
perspective). Simulations and testing should still be
carried out, to verify that the cable works. For example,
the impedance of the signals is changed by this structure,
which may or may not be important, depending on the Southbridge
IDE driver output impedance. At least I can see some "science"
in this product.

http://www.hardwarecooling.com/produ...roducts_id/289

Not every claim in that advertisement, is for real. But the
cables could be a bit better than a randomly rolled up alternative.

None of my computers have rounded cables - for a reason :-)

A better alternative, is to use SATA disks and SATA cables.
A lot less air resistance with SATA cables.

Paul

JAD wrote:
reset CMOS that should set things right- happened to me NUMEROUS times and
thats why I say that, unless you pay for GOOD rounded cables they are not
worth it. (expensive doesn't gaurentee success either, I have gotten serious
speaker noise from many of them)

Reset CMOS, And every jumper on the MB Too. Still no good. The trouble
started right after I put the Rounded cables in ...Could the IDE
Interface been affected somehow? anyway staying away from them forever.
As For SATA Cables, my System Does not support it. my next one will
though. thanks anyway...gotta sell these crap cables on Ebay I guess.


"SAMF2000" wrote in message
ups.com...
I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire
system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced
my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables
with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter "
error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my
amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then
I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error.
I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything
to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable
cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of
reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sam

"SAMF2000" wrote in message
ps.com...

JAD wrote:
reset CMOS that should set things right- happened to me NUMEROUS times
and
thats why I say that, unless you pay for GOOD rounded cables they are
not
worth it. (expensive doesn't gaurentee success either, I have gotten
serious
speaker noise from many of them)

Reset CMOS, And every jumper on the MB Too. Still no good. The trouble

you unplugged from the mains and used the jumper to accomplish this right?

started right after I put the Rounded cables in ...Could the IDE
Interface been affected somehow? anyway staying away from them forever.
As For SATA Cables, my System Does not support it. my next one will
though. thanks anyway...gotta sell these crap cables on Ebay I guess.


"SAMF2000" wrote in message
ups.com...
I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire
system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just
replaced
my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables
with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter "
error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my
amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then
I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same
error.
I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything
to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a
cable
cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of
reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sam

Sheeesh.... "round" cables are NOT rolled up ribbon cables.
In the case of 80-wire round cables, each data wire is
twisted together with a ground wire, putting the data wire
in constant adjacency with its own ground wire.- just like with
spec'd IDE ribbon cables. How well this works is an open
question, but I, for one, have never had a problem with them
in the 3-4 years that I've used them with my (3) ATA/133 HDs.

*TimDaniels*

"Paul" wrote:
The problem with rounded cables is called "crosstalk".

If you look at the cable design, the 80 wire cable looks like
this.

. x . x . x . x .

The X character is a grounded wire, while the "." wires carry a
signal. The ground wire provides a reference for the signal,
and makes the cable look closer to a controlled impedance. It
improves the signal quality. The extra spacing between the
"." wires reduces interference from one "." wire on the other
"." wires on either side.

Now, roll up the cable, so that one layer of wire is
adjacent to the other. A small portion of the cross section
would look like this. Depending on how tightly the cable
is rolled, the displacement between layers, could take
on just about any relationship.

. x . x . x . x .
. x . x . x . x .

Now, some of the "." wires are getting closer to one
another, than they would be if the cable was kept flat.
The close signals interfere with one another, and sometimes
a "1" signal gets switched to a "0" signal. If the disk is
doing write operations, then corrupted data can get written
to the disk. (Note - you can reduce the interference, by
dropping down to ATA-33 or lower. Not that anyone would want
to do that, when perfectly good flat cables are available.)

A round cable must be fabricated, so that the interference
is no worse than it would be in a perfectly flat cable. I've
never heard of a standard for round cables, so there is nothing
to spell out good practice for the companies who make them.
(Although, if they have any engineers working for them,
they should know about this problem.)

You can see a product here, where they chop the cable into
sections, then lay the sections on top of one another. The
X's are offset, so each layer is shifted a precise amount.
The X's form a "box" around the dots. If I had to make a
cable, this is the way I would do it (from a theory
perspective). Simulations and testing should still be
carried out, to verify that the cable works. For example,
the impedance of the signals is changed by this structure,
which may or may not be important, depending on the Southbridge
IDE driver output impedance. At least I can see some "science"
in this product.

http://www.hardwarecooling.com/produ...roducts_id/289

Not every claim in that advertisement, is for real. But the
cables could be a bit better than a randomly rolled up alternative.

None of my computers have rounded cables - for a reason :-)

A better alternative, is to use SATA disks and SATA cables.
A lot less air resistance with SATA cables.

Paul

"Timothy Daniels" wrote in message
...
Sheeesh.... "round" cables are NOT rolled up ribbon cables.
In the case of 80-wire round cables,

some are exactly that...


each data wire is
twisted together with a ground wire, putting the data wire
in constant adjacency with its own ground wire.- just like with
spec'd IDE ribbon cables. How well this works is an open
question, but I, for one, have never had a problem with them
in the 3-4 years that I've used them with my (3) ATA/133 HDs.

*TimDaniels*

"Paul" wrote:
The problem with rounded cables is called "crosstalk".

If you look at the cable design, the 80 wire cable looks like
this.

. x . x . x . x .

The X character is a grounded wire, while the "." wires carry a
signal. The ground wire provides a reference for the signal,
and makes the cable look closer to a controlled impedance. It
improves the signal quality. The extra spacing between the
"." wires reduces interference from one "." wire on the other
"." wires on either side.

Now, roll up the cable, so that one layer of wire is
adjacent to the other. A small portion of the cross section
would look like this. Depending on how tightly the cable
is rolled, the displacement between layers, could take
on just about any relationship.

. x . x . x . x .
. x . x . x . x .

Now, some of the "." wires are getting closer to one
another, than they would be if the cable was kept flat.
The close signals interfere with one another, and sometimes
a "1" signal gets switched to a "0" signal. If the disk is
doing write operations, then corrupted data can get written
to the disk. (Note - you can reduce the interference, by
dropping down to ATA-33 or lower. Not that anyone would want
to do that, when perfectly good flat cables are available.)

A round cable must be fabricated, so that the interference
is no worse than it would be in a perfectly flat cable. I've
never heard of a standard for round cables, so there is nothing
to spell out good practice for the companies who make them.
(Although, if they have any engineers working for them,
they should know about this problem.)

You can see a product here, where they chop the cable into
sections, then lay the sections on top of one another. The
X's are offset, so each layer is shifted a precise amount.
The X's form a "box" around the dots. If I had to make a
cable, this is the way I would do it (from a theory
perspective). Simulations and testing should still be
carried out, to verify that the cable works. For example,
the impedance of the signals is changed by this structure,
which may or may not be important, depending on the Southbridge
IDE driver output impedance. At least I can see some "science"
in this product.

http://www.hardwarecooling.com/produ...roducts_id/289

Not every claim in that advertisement, is for real. But the
cables could be a bit better than a randomly rolled up alternative.

None of my computers have rounded cables - for a reason :-)

A better alternative, is to use SATA disks and SATA cables.
A lot less air resistance with SATA cables.

Paul