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#11
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
"Paul" wrote: A round cable must be fabricated, so that the interference is no worse than it would be in a perfectly flat cable. I've never heard of a standard for round cables, so there is nothing to spell out good practice for the companies who make them. (Although, if they have any engineers working for them, they should know about this problem.) Here are some decent "round" cables: http://svc.com/cables-ata-100-133-round-cables.html They are not rolled up ribbon cables. *TimDaniels* |
#12
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:06:01 -0700, SAMF2000 thoughtfully wrote:
I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter " error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error. I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sam Really odd! I'd bet you didn't connect the cables correctly but then reformatting the HD fixed the problem? Doesn't sound like a IDE cable problem if you could reinstall windows. So when did you see the "no 80 wire connector" messages? As bios boots or as windows boots? |
#13
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
"SAMF2000" wrote in message
ups.com... I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter " error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error. I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sam No way would I have reformatted the drive when the problem was almost certainly nothing to do with the drive or the cables. While some rounded cables are a bit dodgy, there are plenty that aren't and as you had the same problem with ordinary cables as well I would guess you did something else to the PC in the process of fitting the cables. Unfortunate, yes, but it sometimes happens. SteveH |
#14
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
You can plug those in backwards sometimes as i did. wouldnt boot then
changed it around booted. "SteveH" wrote in message .uk... "SAMF2000" wrote in message ups.com... I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter " error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error. I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sam No way would I have reformatted the drive when the problem was almost certainly nothing to do with the drive or the cables. While some rounded cables are a bit dodgy, there are plenty that aren't and as you had the same problem with ordinary cables as well I would guess you did something else to the PC in the process of fitting the cables. Unfortunate, yes, but it sometimes happens. SteveH |
#15
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
I've seen this. What happens is the round cable puts a lot of stress on the end wires at the connector, and they pull loose, or short to each other .. only takes 2 or 3 to do this. Then, either the drive won't boot, or if it does, you get a world of "dirty writes" to the drive, and your system is kaput! That is why you got the same error when you restored the flat cables. I use round cables, but I always make sure I tie-wrap them so the ends of the cables are not pulled loose, Generally a U at the end will be good enough to prevent this stress. Be sure to check for this before you install a round cable. Also, I make sure the cable wrap ends a couple of inches from the connector. I just take nippers and cut it back, then check for pulled wires. Also, note that HP and a few others put a flat belt on the cable just behind the connector ..... for good reason. Dirty writes are hard to troubleshoot. I like the round cables that never were a flat belt .. rather a bunch of single or paired wires with a few tie- wraps. You can tell they are not stressed. johns |
#16
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
"johns" wrote:
Also, note that HP and a few others put a flat belt on the cable just behind the connector .... for good reason. All the round cables that I've bought from SVC.com have had pull tabs on the connectors to keep stress off the wires (although they're not shown in the photos). When unplugging the cable, you just pull from side to side on the plastic tabs tp work the plug out of its socket. *TimDaniels* |
#17
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
jaster wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:06:01 -0700, SAMF2000 thoughtfully wrote: I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter " error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error. I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sam Really odd! I'd bet you didn't connect the cables correctly but then reformatting the HD fixed the problem? Doesn't sound like a IDE cable problem if you could reinstall windows. So when did you see the "no 80 wire connector" messages? As bios boots or as windows boots? I Saw that message at bios boot. never got into windows. At the bios boot the drives showed up on the bios boot screen before the error message. Luckily I had the Windows 98 boot disk/cd and the Windows XP Upgrade CD . I thought the most dangerous part to mess with was the CPU But that was a piece of cake if your just careful of the fan being connected and heatsink on correctly. Taking this as a learning lesson now .still reinstalling software. |
#18
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:59:55 -0700, SAMF2000 thoughtfully wrote:
jaster wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:06:01 -0700, SAMF2000 thoughtfully wrote: I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter " error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error. I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sam Really odd! I'd bet you didn't connect the cables correctly but then reformatting the HD fixed the problem? Doesn't sound like a IDE cable problem if you could reinstall windows. So when did you see the "no 80 wire connector" messages? As bios boots or as windows boots? I Saw that message at bios boot. never got into windows. At the bios boot the drives showed up on the bios boot screen before the error message. Luckily I had the Windows 98 boot disk/cd and the Windows XP Upgrade CD . I thought the most dangerous part to mess with was the CPU But that was a piece of cake if your just careful of the fan being connected and heatsink on correctly. Taking this as a learning lesson now .still reinstalling software. I think you had a rare boot virus, if you saw the drives on the bios screen before XP boot. IMO, if the cable was bad or not connected properly you would have gotten beeps or missing HDs from the bios splash. |
#19
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
jaster wrote:
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:59:55 -0700, SAMF2000 thoughtfully wrote: jaster wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:06:01 -0700, SAMF2000 thoughtfully wrote: I never thought Replacing my Ribbon cables would cause my entire system to stop booting. Seemed like an easy task...heck I just replaced my CPU With no headaches ... Well After Replacing the Ribbon cables with IDE Rounded cables And getting some "No 80 wire connecter " error, I Decided to replace the old ribbon cables. Well to my amazement same error. I then stated to try the jumpers on the MB. Then I went into the Configuration and set the defaults... still same error. I had to completely format the drive, reinstall windows and everything to get my computer back. So my question: How can just replacing a cable cause this much trouble and what could I have done short of reinstalling and starting over? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sam Really odd! I'd bet you didn't connect the cables correctly but then reformatting the HD fixed the problem? Doesn't sound like a IDE cable problem if you could reinstall windows. So when did you see the "no 80 wire connector" messages? As bios boots or as windows boots? I Saw that message at bios boot. never got into windows. At the bios boot the drives showed up on the bios boot screen before the error message. Luckily I had the Windows 98 boot disk/cd and the Windows XP Upgrade CD . I thought the most dangerous part to mess with was the CPU But that was a piece of cake if your just careful of the fan being connected and heatsink on correctly. Taking this as a learning lesson now .still reinstalling software. I think you had a rare boot virus, if you saw the drives on the bios screen before XP boot. IMO, if the cable was bad or not connected properly you would have gotten beeps or missing HDs from the bios splash. I think its more likely a bad round cable that damaged the data on the drive. Thats why a reformat and reinstall worked fine and why it showed up in the bios fine but wouldnt boot. |
#20
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Disaster With Rounded IDE Cables
Timothy Daniels wrote: Sheeesh.... "round" cables are NOT rolled up ribbon cables. In the case of 80-wire round cables, each data wire is twisted together with a ground wire, putting the data wire in constant adjacency with its own ground wire.- just like with spec'd IDE ribbon cables. How well this works is an open question, but I, for one, have never had a problem with them in the 3-4 years that I've used them with my (3) ATA/133 HDs. *TimDaniels* The questions I'd want an answer to, is: 1) Are round cables standardized ? Can I be assured of a good construction technique, no matter where I buy them ? Yes, I see adverts for twisted pair cables, I also included a link to a unique flat cabling technique to reduce cable bulk. 2) Have round cables, ones with good construction techniques, been rated for characteristic impedance ? Do they behave differently than their simple ribbon counterparts, assuming the crosstalk problem is solved ? Some amount of work went into getting ribbon cables to work, and a twisted pair cable is not exactly equal. (Signal integrity for IDE - early version) http://www.t13.org/technical/d97128r0.pdf (Later version, starting at PDF page 189. Also PDF page 46 has a cabling spec.) http://www.t13.org/docs2004/d1532v2r4b-ATA-ATAPI-7.pdf If there are standards, and someone has created a standard that works well with the series damping to be found on IDE controllers, I wouldn't have a problem with that. When round cables were introduced, they were anything but standardized. I wouldn't want to recommend a solution, where you have to buy three or four different products, and play with them to see which one works. Paul |
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