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will a cheap PSU (antec) kill P4S800 ?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 14th 03, 08:21 PM
nerdb0t
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Default will a cheap PSU (antec) kill P4S800 ?

so to followup - i sent the mb/cpu back, and the technician said he
tested it and it works fine.

he said my antex 330 must not have enough power. he is sending it
back, and strongly recommends a "P-4 ready" PSU.

here are some interesting articles:

http://www.directron.com/p4install.html#p4power

it says that to be P4-ready, a cpu/mobo needs:

26 Amps at 3.3V, 30 Amps at 5V and 15 Amps at 12V

hmmm...i'm looking for a good psu now..
  #2  
Old October 14th 03, 09:10 PM
Randy
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er....
your new antec should be P-4 ready. Isn't there a 4 pin power lead. If
there is, did you connect it to the motherboard...in addition to the
main power connector?

nerdb0t wrote:
so to followup - i sent the mb/cpu back, and the technician said he
tested it and it works fine.

he said my antex 330 must not have enough power. he is sending it
back, and strongly recommends a "P-4 ready" PSU.

here are some interesting articles:

http://www.directron.com/p4install.html#p4power

it says that to be P4-ready, a cpu/mobo needs:

26 Amps at 3.3V, 30 Amps at 5V and 15 Amps at 12V

hmmm...i'm looking for a good psu now..


  #3  
Old October 14th 03, 10:45 PM
Randy
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Default

Additional info:
http://www4.tomshardware.com/howto/20030609/index.html

Randy wrote:

er....
your new antec should be P-4 ready. Isn't there a 4 pin power lead. If
there is, did you connect it to the motherboard...in addition to the
main power connector?

nerdb0t wrote:

so to followup - i sent the mb/cpu back, and the technician said he
tested it and it works fine.

he said my antex 330 must not have enough power. he is sending it
back, and strongly recommends a "P-4 ready" PSU.

here are some interesting articles:

http://www.directron.com/p4install.html#p4power

it says that to be P4-ready, a cpu/mobo needs:

26 Amps at 3.3V, 30 Amps at 5V and 15 Amps at 12V

hmmm...i'm looking for a good psu now..




  #4  
Old October 15th 03, 03:07 PM
Yves Leclerc
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Default

If the PSU does not have the special 12 volt P4 4-pin power cable and the
motherboard does not have the Asus EZ-Plug (??) adapter, then YES the unit
is "underpowering" the motherboard. P4s need the extra 12 volts to power
the CPU.

Y.

"nerdb0t" wrote in message
om...
so i called customer support for my recent P4S800 w/ P4 3GHz and told
them i thought my purchase was DOA. they immediately asked about my
powersupply, and i said i have an enermax 300W.

they said that PSU is known to kill P4S800's.

i said that i bought a new PSU (antec 330W) and they said that antec's
are too weak to power up a P4S800 w/ 3GHz, especially if i was using
DDR400 memory. they said i need at least 550W if i'm using a "cheap
PSU".

they told me to send back the system and they will replace it, but
that i need to get a new cpu. they only recommended zippy and enlight
at 300W, but i could get a generic one if it was over 500W.

is this some kind of bogus crap, or do you think my PSU could fry my
motherboard by "underpowering" it? (in quotes b/c antec 330W seems
like plenty power to me..)



  #5  
Old October 15th 03, 07:53 PM
nerdb0t
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Default

thanks randy and yves.

but this is a big "no duh." ;-)

of course i plugged in the 12V 4-pin! (see the original post.)

the real question is: "what makes a psu _truly_ p4-ready?"

and i think the answer has something to do with the _true_ amperage
and the safety circuitry in the PSU.

it seems as though i have 2 power supplies that don't cut the mustard,
even though they have the atx12v 4-pin. the vendor took back my
CPU/motherboard and bench tested it - it worked fine with his power
supply. he also explained that he has many customers that have had
trouble w/ the asus P4S800 and "weak" power supplies.

"Yves Leclerc" wrote in message ...
If the PSU does not have the special 12 volt P4 4-pin power cable and the
motherboard does not have the Asus EZ-Plug (??) adapter, then YES the unit
is "underpowering" the motherboard. P4s need the extra 12 volts to power
the CPU.

Y.

  #6  
Old October 15th 03, 08:36 PM
rstlne
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Posts: n/a
Default


"nerdb0t" wrote in message
om...
so to followup - i sent the mb/cpu back, and the technician said he
tested it and it works fine.

he said my antex 330 must not have enough power. he is sending it
back, and strongly recommends a "P-4 ready" PSU.

here are some interesting articles:

http://www.directron.com/p4install.html#p4power

it says that to be P4-ready, a cpu/mobo needs:

26 Amps at 3.3V, 30 Amps at 5V and 15 Amps at 12V

hmmm...i'm looking for a good psu now..


Do the math on that one
418 W
now assuming the worst spec supply that's p4 rated then you would need
something that is 100% true power..
most arent
so that means ANYTHING under 500w = no good
Now it wouldnt surprise me if something else (bad drive, too many drives,
ect ect) is loading down your system
the 330truepower is a great psu


  #7  
Old October 16th 03, 12:33 AM
w_tom
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Default

Too many people are saying things that either untrue or
quite misleading. First 300 watts is more than enough power
for most systems. However many inferior supplies don't even
output power as claimed. Furthermore, to sell at sub $80
retail, many supplies are missing essential functions required
by all switching supplies even when HP was building them 30
years ago.

If a supply was undersized, then a 3.5 digit multimeter
would have made that obvious. If 12 volts could not output
sufficient current, then the 3.5 digit multimeter would
demonstrate the problem - immediately - with numbers. Answers
without numbers should be always suspect. If a technician
really knew a power supply was undersized, then he could have
said which voltage was not outputting enough power.

But too many computer repairmen don't even have basic
electrical knowledge, don't owns that all so important 3.5
digit multimeter, AND don't even know what those above
mentioned power supply functions are.

For example, if a power supply is under powered - does not
output sufficient voltage - then is the computer damaged? Of
course not. If a computer draws too much power, is the power
supply damaged? Yes if a power supply demonstrated in tests
by Tom's Hardware. But those were classic examples of power
supplies missing essential functions. All power supply
outputs can even be shorted together AND no properly designed
power supply is damaged. In specs listed below, look at the
line labeled "Over power protection". Just some simple
questions to ask that tech - to discover if he has minimally
acceptable computer knowledge.

In the meantime, Enermax typically meets your newly learned
requirements for properly designed supply. If that tech
cannot provide a long list of specs with your new supply,
consider it defective by design. Specs required to make a
power supply P4 ready. An abbreviated example that must be
provided with an acceptable P4 power supply:
Specification compliance: ATX 2.03 & ATX12V v1.1
Acoustics noise 25.8dBA typical at 70w, 30cm
Short circuit protection on all outputs
Over voltage protection
Over power protection
100% hi-pot test
100% burn in, high temperature cycled on/off
PFC harmonics compliance: EN61000-3-2 + A1 + A2
EMI/RFI compliance: CE, CISPR22 & FCC part 15 class B
Safety compliance: VDE, TUV, D, N, S, Fi, UL, C-UL & CB
Hold up time, full load: 16ms. typical
Efficiency; 100-120VAC and full range: 65%
Dielectric withstand, input to frame/ground: 1800VAC, 1sec.
Dielectric withstand, input to output: 1800VAC, 1sec.
Ripple/noise: 1%
MTBF, full load @ 25°C amb.: 100k hrs

Meanwhile, ask that tech what happens to a power supply if
output voltages are shorted. If he does not say "no damage"
or "power supply protects itself", then you know this tech is
not qualified. Too many computer techs don't know; will even
claim the power supply will fail or blow a fuse. No power
supply must damage any computer parts and not computer
components must damage any power supply.

If the tech knows his stuff, then he measured and reported
voltages output by that supply under full load - because that
is the first test one does to verify integrity of a power
supply. Does it have enough power? There is no reason to
guess. It would have been immediately obvious using that
meter. No reason to speculate about that power supply.
Simple mesurements would have answered the question yes or no
without any doubt.

nerdb0t wrote:
thanks randy and yves.

but this is a big "no duh." ;-)

of course i plugged in the 12V 4-pin! (see the original post.)

the real question is: "what makes a psu _truly_ p4-ready?"

and i think the answer has something to do with the _true_ amperage
and the safety circuitry in the PSU.

it seems as though i have 2 power supplies that don't cut the mustard,
even though they have the atx12v 4-pin. the vendor took back my
CPU/motherboard and bench tested it - it worked fine with his power
supply. he also explained that he has many customers that have had
trouble w/ the asus P4S800 and "weak" power supplies.

  #8  
Old October 23rd 03, 11:37 PM
nerdb0t
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

fyi - problem solved.

i got an antec 480W, and it seems to work fine. dont know why the
antec 330W was not enough power, but whatever.

w_tom wrote in message ...
Too many people are saying things that either untrue or
quite misleading. First 300 watts is more than enough power
for most systems. However many inferior supplies don't even
output power as claimed. Furthermore, to sell at sub $80
retail, many supplies are missing essential functions required
by all switching supplies even when HP was building them 30
years ago.

 




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